Guild Wars 2

Your choices don’t matter

Race, profession, personal background, and personality choice don’t matter.

Profession only matters in combat, everything else is merely cosmetic and/or an abandoned child. We have two full-fledged campaigns and three so-called “living world” seasons, and yet those choices only matter in a very small portion of that overall content.

Once you step out into the world to fight dragons, you are as replaceable as the tires on your car. It doesn’t matter who you are and where you come from, the dialogue and storyline remain 99.99% the same for everyone. Neither does the story and the dialogue vary depending on your race, nor are there any more racial-specific quests, let alone profession-specific ones. And don’t even mention personality-specific paths that could make for a unique experience in this game.

All that minimized the replayability enormously. The first time is exciting, the second time might be fun, too, but then it becomes 100% repetitive.

That said, they could have just left it like it was in GW1, where you could only play humans, it wouldn’t make a difference in GW2. The dialogue fits only human characters anyway, and maybe asuran too to a certain extent, but it absolutely doesn’t fit a norn, charr, or sylvari outside of their initial racial storyline.

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Everything is frozen in time

Your character’s progress doesn’t matter at all when you roam the lands of Tyria. Everything remains always the same as the last time you passed through that township or desert or jungle. NPCs won’t react differently to you. Things you have already accomplished don’t seem to affect any areas in the slightest.

You cleansed Orr, defeated two elder dragons, yet people on these maps are still terrified of the undead and of Zhaitan, and there are still Mordrem worshipping a still very alive Mordremoth. Who cares? — You saved Logan from a terrible fate and helped him move on and away from his Queen, but he is still residing in Divinity’s Reach the next time you enter the building and doesn’t recall any of this? Of course!

There is nothing “living” about this world.

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Even festivals are 100% frozen in time

I don’t think I must explain much about festivals. We only have a handful, and those are repeated over and over again, year after year.

They were fun and exciting the first time around, but then they become boring like the rest of the content. “Been there, done that.” — This title reflects all you need to know about GW2 in its current state.

Instead of developing new festivals each year, or at least a nice variation of the existing ones to bring some diversity into the picture, we have exactly the same problem as in GW1: everything remains the same, always.

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GW2 is no RPG

In most MMOs, the label “RPG” is falsely used to describe the fact that you have characters you can level, that you have a crafting system, and the likes.

That is not what RPGs are about. If you have ever played pen & paper RPGs, or great, classy computer RPGs like the Elder Scrolls or the Dragon Age series, you know the difference.

In a RPG, you have interaction with characters, you make choices, and those choices matter and shape the progress of your story. You don’t have that in GW2, and in that regard it is exactly the same as GW1: an online multiplayer action game, nothing more, nothing less.

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Contemporary language

In the past couple of years, GW2 has moved away from coming accross as a serious fantasy setting with fitting designs and dialogue; instead it has developed a tone that makes it sound more and more like you were wandering the halls of a junior highschool.

Go into the Divinity’s Reach home instance and compare the NPC chatter there with recent dialogue. ’Nuff said.

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PVP is no fun, because…

The whole skill concept of GW2 has flaws. The way elite specializations have been implemented did not help and has been a hot topic ever since, because of the imbalance and the very rigid meta that resulted from it.

Now, I love the concept of PvP, but the rank system is a joke, because in your (higher) rank you will often find people who still play like this was the first time they ever entered a ranked match. Add the imbalance caused by the completely random composition of teams and the resulting unfair advantage for one side (as you can’t even decide with whom you want to team up before a match), and you can forget about PvP.

It really is no wonder that there is such a high toxicity to be found in PvP.

Good luck.

Hope you find what you’re looking for in your next game.

Good luck then, hope you find what you’re looking for

There is no living world in Guild War 2, I agree. There’s only a living world in Guild Wars 2 compared to most other MMOs which have static quests. The idea of a living world isn’t meant to be taken literary, but within the context of the MMO genre.

There is no living world in any themepark MMO, and not truly a living world even in sandbox MMOs. That’s because no server is actually capable of running a true living world, at least not yet. It will happen in the future, be we don’t live in the future.

Edit: To be sure there was more of a living world during Season 1 of the Living Story and the complaints about it from the playerbase were both myriad and vocal.

This is more of a technical question than anything else.
Are there any MMOs where the game content can be altered in real time .
ie no need for anyone to have to log off , and then log on again when there is a game upgrade?

mauried.5608:

This is more of a technical question than anything else.
Are there any MMOs where the game content can be altered in real time .
ie no need for anyone to have to log off , and then log on again when there is a game upgrade?

Are there? I dunno. There’s a bunch of especially older ones that at least stream their assets during play, greatly reducing the initial download (GW1 and EQ2 both did this to some extent)

Outside of MMOs there’s enough massive and complex systems that are capable of this (obvious example: Google), so the technology is definitely there. It’s just a matter of time vs reward, same as why many MMOs have daily/weekly “reboots”: can software run for years without reboots? Of course. Is it more time-efficient to just build it fast and reboot the stuff before it breaks? Yup.

I hope anet dev read this thread!!

K. Bye.

You’re expecting a lot more from an MMO than it can provide, especially in a story context. ANet tried an actual Living World, and it didn’t work out, because they discovered that beyond their limited means to produce content, they were throwing it away. It’s an MMO, of course choices don’t matter. If your choices mattered, then it would have to change the entire world around your choices, which just doesn’t work in an environment where everyone is the main hero. That’s just.. basic facts.

So, good luck finding the game you want, but it’s not going to be an MMO.

Rauderi.8706:

K. Bye.

You’re expecting a lot more from an MMO than it can provide, especially in a story context. ANet tried an actual Living World, and it didn’t work out, because they discovered that beyond their limited means to produce content, they were throwing it away. It’s an MMO, of course choices don’t matter. If your choices mattered, then it would have to change the entire world around your choices, which just doesn’t work in an environment where everyone is the main hero. That’s just.. basic facts.

So, good luck finding the game you want, but it’s not going to be an MMO.

A true living world can work, as long as people don’t have the expectation that they can login and not miss out. It’s not that throwing away content is bad, it’s just that paying customers expect to get access to that content. This works in other games with phasing content in and out as you progress, but GW2 doesn’t have this technology.

Other than that, Living Season 1 was mostly ended because their 2 week schedule was hard on the developers themselves, and because they couldn’t do the content justice.
As far as changing the world, this still is going on with current events and in season 2 where they changed bits of the world regardless.

I think they can totally pull it off still, as long as they are careful with how they put it in. Rewards should be obtainable after an event has passed, don’t tie Achievement points or other permanent progression to it, or make them obtainable after an event has passed. (A huge thing is that people kept asking how long current event were or are going to be in the game, even a few months back. Mostly because of the achievement points.) Also don’t remove content until absolutely necessary. Like when it’s being replaced.

Ofcourse, solely temporary content doesn’t work either. Adding to the world as well as changing it would be necessary. Plus not a too short time for people to able to play and a indication when something important is going to end would be needed.

But yeah, it’s definitely not mainstream.

@OP A question: if you place such a premium on having your individual choices affect the game world, then may I ask what exactly is drawing you torwards playing a MMO game? If the answer is “not much” you might be better off with a solo game or a smaller group campaign.

I agree with you Ashantara. I have the same feelings as you. Anyway this “frozing in time” is confusing me so much, because I don’t know something changed after Trahearne’s cleansing of Orr. I just can’t see it with my own eyes. I just saw some butterflies.

I am bored with this game because nothing changes- some running Anomalies in 3 maps- WOW Anet I am impressed…. (sarcastic). I bet that these Anomalies will appear even after LS3- because “everything is frozen in time”. That’s annoying.

I am leaving GW2 too. When LS3 started I was starting to fell boredom- I was crafting some legendaries between episodes of LS3 then I was playing an episode for 4-5 hours and again I was thinking- what’s next???

The episodes are the same- only dialogues are different but the rest is the same. We are *ucking waiting for TWO chapters with dialogues for TWO-THREE MONTHS!

In LS2 we were getting episodes every 2 weeks (speaking roughly) and we got more dialogues, more interesting things, more content in instances and the trailer were amazing. Now it’s all about building hype.

LS3 is the biggest disappointment for me and I see where GW2 is going and I am leaving this ‘train’ who (in my opinion) leads this game to the catastrophy.

I will check the forums and role of this game, but I think I will never come back to this game.

I just want to recommend you whether this game meets your expectations and just consider about is it worth to spend your time playing in this game or just leave it. I hope you see positives and you will stay, but personally I don’t see any positives.

Thanks for your attention and see you soon on this forum.

I don’t think I would ever really leave GW2. I would not play as much as I used to, also because real life really. It’s still easy to pick up to play casually, though it also depends what they are doing with the next expansion.

It really must say something that the revelation of Flashpoint has been received more negative than positive. It’s a big change, yet it fell flat on its behind in the reception. Which does say something about such a big impactful revelation. While with LW1 it was like, WTF is going on we need to know more, I almost feel like with LW3 it’s like, oh right, so that’s what’s probably going to happen. It doesn’t really affect like, the whole rest of the world.

- “A big bloodstone exploded? That stuff from legends?”
- “Eh, that’s over there in the jungle no one is losing his kitten over that.”
- “Oh Balthazar is walking amongst us?”
- “Yeah man, I dunno what’s that about, probably not true.”
It should rock the foundations of Divinity’s Reach or the whole Human Race. Even my made up little snippets is more of a reaction.

Just like the Sylvari barely got touched in HoT to be fair. It was a huge revelation that didn’t make an impact on the actual world. The Sylvari at the Pale tree just said what they usually said. It’s not like a big panic, no battles were fought, no strife no drama. well I suppose the Pale tree was belly up.
- “Hey did you know that Sylvari are dragon minions?”
- “K man, this city is still chill, man.”
It’s like lately, story has become somewhat of a defunct firecracker.

TL;DR: To some extend, by losing the ability to make an impact on the actual existing world, no matter how hard it is to pull off, they lost some of the ability to make an impact on the player.

ArenaNet tried the whole “living world” thing to the best of their ability. That was Season 1. People hated it, so they went a different route, but they kept the name. Simple as that.

Don’t expect a true “living world” from a game ever, in all honesty, especially a MMO. It’s just too much work. From the actual content to ensuring bugs don’t mess everything up.

@FrizzFreston: The problem with trying to do that is that you’re either adding exponentially more work as you set up dialogues to be client based (and character based), so as to avoid spoiling new players, or you spoil new players to content they’ve not come close to.

Their choice was to do neither, so as to avoid spoiling new players and because they do not have the manpower to alter hundreds of thousands of dialogues on a bimonthly basis. And in the end, except for where Current Events come in and alter only part of a map (like Season 1 and some of Season 2 did), they treat each map as being “stuck in time”. So The Grove is set in 1325 AE, while the revelation of sylvari origins is in 1328 AE.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet tried the whole “living world” thing to the best of their ability. That was Season 1. People hated it, so they went a different route, but they kept the name. Simple as that.

People didn’t hate it; it wasn’t as simple as that.

Nearly everyone loved the immediacy and everyone loved the sheer amount of updates. Some people hated missing an update and more than a few hated the idea that they (or someone else) might miss an update. People loved new stuff, but some hated missing out on old stuff.

Heck, some people never accept any changes to the game, which is why we have constant calls for a return to the old Lion’s Arch, to bring back dungeons (which never left), and some people insist on a Holy Trinity.

Regardless of our own preferences, ANet had a rough time of it during Season 1. It was difficult to implement, it kept developers working at their peak nearly all the time (which is non-sustainable), and the infrastructure wasn’t really ready to handle it.

And I think everyone can agree that no game can be successful enough to discard content at nearly the same rate that it adds content.

So, no, it’s not a simple story: some loved it, some hated it, some would want to see something like Season 1 again. It was a great idea, a rough implementation, a tough sell for many people, and a lot more work for ANet that what we have now. ANet changed direction because, for less effort, they could keep delivering enough content to keep most of us happy enough most of the time.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet tried the whole “living world” thing to the best of their ability. That was Season 1. People hated it, so they went a different route, but they kept the name. Simple as that.

People didn’t hate it; it wasn’t as simple as that.

Nearly everyone loved the immediacy and everyone loved the sheer amount of updates. Some people hated missing an update and more than a few hated the idea that they (or someone else) might miss an update. People loved new stuff, but some hated missing out on old stuff.

Heck, some people never accept any changes to the game, which is why we have constant calls for a return to the old Lion’s Arch, to bring back dungeons (which never left), and some people insist on a Holy Trinity.

Regardless of our own preferences, ANet had a rough time of it during Season 1. It was difficult to implement, it kept developers working at their peak nearly all the time (which is non-sustainable), and the infrastructure wasn’t really ready to handle it.

And I think everyone can agree that no game can be successful enough to discard content at nearly the same rate that it adds content.

So, no, it’s not a simple story: some loved it, some hated it, some would want to see something like Season 1 again. It was a great idea, a rough implementation, a tough sell for many people, and a lot more work for ANet that what we have now. ANet changed direction because, for less effort, they could keep delivering enough content to keep most of us happy enough most of the time.

Sorry to interject but not everyone loved the immediacy and the amount of updates. S1 pushed me away from the game for some time.

I completely agree that it was a great idea with rough implementation though.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet tried the whole “living world” thing to the best of their ability. That was Season 1. People hated it, so they went a different route, but they kept the name. Simple as that.

Don’t expect a true “living world” from a game ever, in all honesty, especially a MMO. It’s just too much work. From the actual content to ensuring bugs don’t mess everything up.

@FrizzFreston: The problem with trying to do that is that you’re either adding exponentially more work as you set up dialogues to be client based (and character based), so as to avoid spoiling new players, or you spoil new players to content they’ve not come close to.

Their choice was to do neither, so as to avoid spoiling new players and because they do not have the manpower to alter hundreds of thousands of dialogues on a bimonthly basis. And in the end, except for where Current Events come in and alter only part of a map (like Season 1 and some of Season 2 did), they treat each map as being “stuck in time”. So The Grove is set in 1325 AE, while the revelation of sylvari origins is in 1328 AE.

You know, I actually didn’t think of spoiling newer players. That’s actually a pretty good point. You’d always need to work around it, or splitting up maps. Or let everything work out in instances. (or completely ignore that you are spoiling players) Perhaps they could’ve done something in home instances, or in a story instance that was to that effect. In LW1 it did work because previous stuff was removed entirely, thus there was no spoiler, and with replayable content that can’t work out in a simple way.

The hundreds of thousands dialogues on a bimonthly basis is ofcourse not even a suggestion I was trying to make. You can also show change differently. Or to another type of effect. Though spoiling other players while the story is still there to be played, might make it hard to change some dialogue and then not spoil what is going on. it would be like watching a series while the latest episode is playing in the background.
But yeah, you can’t just discard the criticism because my suggestion is bad.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet tried the whole “living world” thing to the best of their ability. That was Season 1. People hated it, so they went a different route, but they kept the name. Simple as that.

People didn’t hate it; it wasn’t as simple as that.

Nearly everyone loved the immediacy and everyone loved the sheer amount of updates. Some people hated missing an update and more than a few hated the idea that they (or someone else) might miss an update. People loved new stuff, but some hated missing out on old stuff.

Heck, some people never accept any changes to the game, which is why we have constant calls for a return to the old Lion’s Arch, to bring back dungeons (which never left), and some people insist on a Holy Trinity.

Regardless of our own preferences, ANet had a rough time of it during Season 1. It was difficult to implement, it kept developers working at their peak nearly all the time (which is non-sustainable), and the infrastructure wasn’t really ready to handle it.

And I think everyone can agree that no game can be successful enough to discard content at nearly the same rate that it adds content.

So, no, it’s not a simple story: some loved it, some hated it, some would want to see something like Season 1 again. It was a great idea, a rough implementation, a tough sell for many people, and a lot more work for ANet that what we have now. ANet changed direction because, for less effort, they could keep delivering enough content to keep most of us happy enough most of the time.

You forgot to mention that people hated feeling like they had to rush the content and the achievements because they could disappear in 2 or 4 weeks.

But honestly, when you’re talking about a system that gave fast paced, temporary content, and you say people hate that it was fast paced, and they hate that it was temporary, that’s the same as saying they hated the system.

I’m not saying they hated the content of Season 1 (though there were a handful of complaints – mainly regarding the bugs, which resulted in not enough proper testing), just that folks hated the implementation – the delivery – of it. Which, quite honestly, they did, and you even say so yourself (while saying they didn’t…).

FrizzFreston.5290:

But yeah, you can’t just discard the criticism because my suggestion is bad.

Eh, wasn’t saying to. I’m no fan of the current set up. Was just regurgitating their excus-explanation for how they do things (and then adding technical stuff they didn’t go into) when asked before.

That is not what RPGs are about. If you have ever played pen & paper RPGs, or great, classy computer RPGs like the Elder Scrolls or the Dragon Age series, you know the difference.

First of all, most of games in these franchises are just BAD, it varies, but mostly due to streamlined game design:
Skyrim
Oblivion
Inqusition
Dragon Age 2
Should I Continue the list with Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda?

Second this all are SINGLE PLAYER GAMES.

And although we don’t know exact budget of GW2 development, it is safe to state that it is less that most of single players games from this list. And MMO is more complex product to make starting from ingame economy, class balance, map design, game content for ppl with THOUSANDS of hours spent in game and etc.

So good luck to find any MMO that really have great storyline, lore and paired with reasonable combat system in 2017.

Does GW2 have issues, yes, but most of other MMO have them too.

I love so much how from talk about living story you went to complaining about PvP. It’s not the right forum for that anyways. :P This is a MMO game so obviously it works differently here. You can’t just change the world as you like, there has to be certain limitations so new players don’t just go into a world that is completely different to the “original one”. In LS1 season they were changing the world more significantly than now like Lion’s Arch. That’s the biggest change they can afford here I guess.

Since I bought this game until now, I never bothered with so called Living World. I just leveled my way normally on first campaign and went WvW and dungeons and PVP. The PVE never was my attention and never provided the fun I needed.

HoT gave me a little bit of boosts to play PVE, but it was short-lived.

W8 how does the “living world” which yes as of se3 doesnt exist anymore they might as well call them “content updates” relate to pvp? Gw2 is an rpg simply because rpg’s allow you to make choices and expand on them which you do. The may not matter nearlyas much but they’re there.

But again i agree with the tytle gw2 no longe has a living world.

I wonder what “High” rank you’re queueing at where you’re running into people who don’t know that they can just swap classes if RNG gave them a bad team composition?

well, the selling point of GW2 was exactly what the OP doesn’t see anymore, right now it’s nothing more than a glorified WoW without quests. (which would be really fun to have, renown hearts are allot more boring and useless then quests)

k bye can i have your stuff thanks

Would prefer to say that we have a"Living Story": a saga that begins with the first Personal story episode right through to the latest LE3 EP.

Regarding “Living World” yes, in part, some zones permanently changed, some new zones added. But mostly the world is disappointingly static.

Ashantara.8731:

Your choices don’t matter

Race, profession, personal background, and personality choice don’t matter.

Profession only matters in combat, everything else is merely cosmetic and/or an abandoned child. We have two full-fledged campaigns and three so-called “living world” seasons, and yet those choices only matter in a very small portion of that overall content.

Once you step out into the world to fight dragons, you are as replaceable as the tires on your car. It doesn’t matter who you are and where you come from, the dialogue and storyline remain 99.99% the same for everyone. Neither does the story and the dialogue vary depending on your race, nor are there any more racial-specific quests, let alone profession-specific ones. And don’t even mention personality-specific paths that could make for a unique experience in this game.

All that minimized the replayability enormously. The first time is exciting, the second time might be fun, too, but then it becomes 100% repetitive.

That said, they could have just left it like it was in GW1, where you could only play humans, it wouldn’t make a difference in GW2. The dialogue fits only human characters anyway, and maybe asuran too to a certain extent, but it absolutely doesn’t fit a norn, charr, or sylvari outside of their initial racial storyline.

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Everything is frozen in time

Your character’s progress doesn’t matter at all when you roam the lands of Tyria. Everything remains always the same as the last time you passed through that township or desert or jungle. NPCs won’t react differently to you. Things you have already accomplished don’t seem to affect any areas in the slightest.

You cleansed Orr, defeated two elder dragons, yet people on these maps are still terrified of the undead and of Zhaitan, and there are still Mordrem worshipping a still very alive Mordremoth. Who cares? — You saved Logan from a terrible fate and helped him move on and away from his Queen, but he is still residing in Divinity’s Reach the next time you enter the building and doesn’t recall any of this? Of course!

There is nothing “living” about this world.

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Even festivals are 100% frozen in time

I don’t think I must explain much about festivals. We only have a handful, and those are repeated over and over again, year after year.

They were fun and exciting the first time around, but then they become boring like the rest of the content. “Been there, done that.” — This title reflects all you need to know about GW2 in its current state.

Instead of developing new festivals each year, or at least a nice variation of the existing ones to bring some diversity into the picture, we have exactly the same problem as in GW1: everything remains the same, always.

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GW2 is no RPG

In most MMOs, the label “RPG” is falsely used to describe the fact that you have characters you can level, that you have a crafting system, and the likes.

That is not what RPGs are about. If you have ever played pen & paper RPGs, or great, classy computer RPGs like the Elder Scrolls or the Dragon Age series, you know the difference.

In a RPG, you have interaction with characters, you make choices, and those choices matter and shape the progress of your story. You don’t have that in GW2, and in that regard it is exactly the same as GW1: an online multiplayer action game, nothing more, nothing less.

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Contemporary language

In the past couple of years, GW2 has moved away from coming accross as a serious fantasy setting with fitting designs and dialogue; instead it has developed a tone that makes it sound more and more like you were wandering the halls of a junior highschool.

Go into the Divinity’s Reach home instance and compare the NPC chatter there with recent dialogue. ’Nuff said.

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PVP is no fun, because…

The whole skill concept of GW2 has flaws. The way elite specializations have been implemented did not help and has been a hot topic ever since, because of the imbalance and the very rigid meta that resulted from it.

Now, I love the concept of PvP, but the rank system is a joke, because in your (higher) rank you will often find people who still play like this was the first time they ever entered a ranked match. Add the imbalance caused by the completely random composition of teams and the resulting unfair advantage for one side (as you can’t even decide with whom you want to team up before a match), and you can forget about PvP.

It really is no wonder that there is such a high toxicity to be found in PvP.

Well thought out post.

atheria.2837:

Well thought out post.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

I agree with you. Season 1 was great – from there is just slid until now we don’t even know what is really happening – not really – we have zero continuity with Aurene, how she’s supposed to be growing and bonding with US as her companion!

People lose connection with a story that is constantly losing connection with the elements that matter.

Aurene matters, so why was she left out of the last update and living story?

She was included in the lw and the last ep has yet to come.

The “living and breathing” world that was advertised at game release didn’t last long, as others pointed out. It wasn’t successful and probably can never be successful as concept, because the pace of the developers creating content wasn’t compatible with the pace players consume content.

If you provide short-lived one-time content, the players feel forced to play that content while it is available. But they might not always be ready to play it during that time, and this causes dissatisfaction. A player might currently have no time to play at all, or he wants to play other stuff first, or he doesn’t have a character available that is fit to play the new stuff. Whatever it is, there are many more reasons.

If I look in retrospect, I was not ready to play some of the LS1 instances. I didn’t have a proper build, equipment, and understanding of game mechanics. I was a really bad player, and my guild friends as well. Since at least the Nightmare Tower, the instanced content became too difficult for us. But I had to play this story now, because next week it would be gone. I wasn’t given time to postpone it and learn and develop my playing skills instead. This caused frustration and lead me to abandon some of the LS1 story and made me not play the game at all for some time.

In comparison to that, a game with slowly growing static content is always there for the players to play as a whole, at exactly the pace the player chooses to play it.

This is what we have now, and it is much adaptable for the players, and for the flow of new players as well. It is open for new players, while the LS1-world style isn’t appealing for new players. It’s confusing at best. With that LS1 concept, I always wondered why Arenanet didn’t seem to cater for new players – all they did was trying to keep the current players in the game, but acquiring new ones to keep the playerbase fresh doesn’t seem a marketing or development goal.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You forgot to mention that people hated feeling like they had to rush the content and the achievements because they could disappear in 2 or 4 weeks.

No, I didn’t. First, you already mentioned it and made it seem as if everyone hated that — I pointed out that lots of people loved the urgency that brought to doing events. (And then I pointed out that plenty of people hated feeling that they might miss out, which, of course, includes those who felt they had to rush.)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But honestly, when you’re talking about a system that gave fast paced, temporary content, and you say people hate that it was fast paced, and they hate that it was temporary, that’s the same as saying they hated the system.

You keep missing the point: not everyone hated it. Some people hated the temporary nature; not everyone did. Some people hated the fast pace; many prefer it.

And everyone liked getting content updates sometimes as often as 2x/month (as opposed to what we have now, which is closer to 1-4x/three months). That was also part of the ‘system’.

So again, it’s not as simple as you’re trying to make it out to be. Individuals have conflicting opinions and the community was, even then, divided about it.

In the context of this thread, the distinction is moot: ANet would have been foolish not to change direction based on the feedback. Regardless of how much I preferred the original system (even if I would have missed on a lots of updates), there were plenty who felt reluctant to commit to the game (for fear of missing out on those same updates). The OP doesn’t seem to understand that a healthy game needs to keep evolving and that means some things we like will disappear, while some things we hate will appear.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’m not saying they hated the content of Season 1 (though there were a handful of complaints – mainly regarding the bugs, which resulted in not enough proper testing), just that folks hated the implementation – the delivery – of it. Which, quite honestly, they did, and you even say so yourself (while saying they didn’t…).

Again, you’re making it out to be a simple binary: hated or not hated; it’s more complicated than that.

I never said every single player that ever existed at that point in time hated Season 1.

I was speaking in generals – which ultimately means the vocal individuals (whether majority or minor is questionable) – as is almost always the case when people say “everyone”. And to try to argue that ‘no not everyone hated it’ (which you long posts have ended up being solely about it seems) is like saying “that’s not what literally means”. Ultimately pointless. Also, I never implied that everyone who hated it did so for every listed reason or that everyone who hated it had hated it for the same reason(s).

Silmar Alech.4305:

The “living and breathing” world that was advertised at game release didn’t last long, as others pointed out. It wasn’t successful and probably can never be successful as concept, because the pace of the developers creating content wasn’t compatible with the pace players consume content.

If you provide short-lived one-time content, the players feel forced to play that content while it is available. But they might not always be ready to play it during that time, and this causes dissatisfaction. A player might currently have no time to play at all, or he wants to play other stuff first, or he doesn’t have a character available that is fit to play the new stuff. Whatever it is, there are many more reasons.

If I look in retrospect, I was not ready to play some of the LS1 instances. I didn’t have a proper build, equipment, and understanding of game mechanics. I was a really bad player, and my guild friends as well. Since at least the Nightmare Tower, the instanced content became too difficult for us. But I had to play this story now, because next week it would be gone. I wasn’t given time to postpone it and learn and develop my playing skills instead. This caused frustration and lead me to abandon some of the LS1 story and made me not play the game at all for some time.

In comparison to that, a game with slowly growing static content is always there for the players to play as a whole, at exactly the pace the player chooses to play it.

This is what we have now, and it is much adaptable for the players, and for the flow of new players as well. It is open for new players, while the LS1-world style isn’t appealing for new players. It’s confusing at best. With that LS1 concept, I always wondered why Arenanet didn’t seem to cater for new players – all they did was trying to keep the current players in the game, but acquiring new ones to keep the playerbase fresh doesn’t seem a marketing or development goal.

We dont need se1 style of content to have a living breathing world. Se2 was the best of both world it provided long lasting content and the world changed and evolved with update.

well, a living breathing world can be done without big announcements, if the areas don’t depend on hearts and dynamic events it would be more dynamic.
for instance, events could happen without anyone knowing about it, when events fail things could change in the map that advances an attack.

an example:
centaurs attack a town, when the town is overrun they try to fortify the town for their own, ones fortified they continue on to the next town and do the same.
that way the world is ever changing, the players can change all that by taking on the centaurs, destroy the fortifications and by driving them back.
this will make the world really dynamic because of something really simple, as long as players are not around enemy NPC’s can just take over tyria.

to me hearts are blank and boring, they just stand there and ones it’s done the area is depending on events to run, otherwise the area is just useless and has nothing to offer.
the living world we have isn’t really true right now, without the kind of events i am talking about (without all the bells and whistles attached on it) GW2 will just be an empty world without really anything to do.

sorudo.9054:

well, a living breathing world can be done without big announcements, if the areas don’t depend on hearts and dynamic events it would be more dynamic.
for instance, events could happen without anyone knowing about it, when events fail things could change in the map that advances an attack.

an example:
centaurs attack a town, when the town is overrun they try to fortify the town for their own, ones fortified they continue on to the next town and do the same.
that way the world is ever changing, the players can change all that by taking on the centaurs, destroy the fortifications and by driving them back.
this will make the world really dynamic because of something really simple, as long as players are not around enemy NPC’s can just take over tyria.

to me hearts are blank and boring, they just stand there and ones it’s done the area is depending on events to run, otherwise the area is just useless and has nothing to offer.
the living world we have isn’t really true right now, without the kind of events i am talking about (without all the bells and whistles attached on it) GW2 will just be an empty world without really anything to do.

What you are suggesting is kind of a meta tbh and theres nothing wrong with that but it doesnt make for a living world it makes for a dynamic map.

A lw update is one where the player goes around the world, events have impac bigger than the map they take place in. Events can even caise a map to change both the forts that were attacked by mordry and la as well as the vines and the events in the charr maps.

Se3 so far is just a numbers of event happening on a map and having no effect what so ever on the outside world. The current event kinda reduced that but i suppose making more decorations is more importand than having a living and evolving world.

It’s not about “finding the next game” …it’s about false advertisement. I understand him.

@op good part is this game doesn’t “tie” you to it…you can go on long breaks, come back and be as powerful as when you left it.

OP – its funny how the first word used is already wrong. Different races have a few different skills… lol

Fancypants.9705:

OP – its funny how the first word used is already wrong. Different races have a few different skills… lol

So do professions… but I think OP meant outside of combat. Of course, race matters much more than profession for the early parts of the story, so still wrong.

Rebound.3409:

It’s not about “finding the next game” …it’s about false advertisement. I understand him.

@op good part is this game doesn’t “tie” you to it…you can go on long breaks, come back and be as powerful as when you left it.

When and where was it advertised that gw2 is a game where individual choice affects the story? This is not a telltale game. And it’s an MMO on top of that, where thousands of players are sharing that story.

RabbitUp.8294:

Rebound.3409:

It’s not about “finding the next game” …it’s about false advertisement. I understand him.

@op good part is this game doesn’t “tie” you to it…you can go on long breaks, come back and be as powerful as when you left it.

When and where was it advertised that gw2 is a game where individual choice affects the story? This is not a telltale game. And it’s an MMO on top of that, where thousands of players are sharing that story.

watch the early trailers, they actually said exactly that.

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

Rebound.3409:

It’s not about “finding the next game” …it’s about false advertisement. I understand him.

@op good part is this game doesn’t “tie” you to it…you can go on long breaks, come back and be as powerful as when you left it.

When and where was it advertised that gw2 is a game where individual choice affects the story? This is not a telltale game. And it’s an MMO on top of that, where thousands of players are sharing that story.

watch the early trailers, they actually said exactly that.

They were referring to the feature that’s already in the game: the open world changes depending on whether you are successful in driving off invaders, escorting NPCs, etc For example, towns in Kryta might be under human or centaur control, depending on whether you choose to help or not.

Now, of course that’s not the level of “personal choice” we get in single player games, but it’s a substantial change for compared to the traditional MMO RPG.

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

It affects the progression of the history, not the ending.

Expecting a personalised ending in an MMO where everyone shares the same story is quite delusional.

RabbitUp.8294:

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

It affects the progression of the history, not the ending.

Expecting a personalised ending in an MMO where everyone shares the same story is quite delusional.

the personal story is instanced, there is nothing shared about that.
try again please but this time research a bit more.

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

It affects the progression of the history, not the ending.

Expecting a personalised ending in an MMO where everyone shares the same story is quite delusional.

the personal story is instanced, there is nothing shared about that.
try again please but this time research a bit more.

It’s still the same story regardless of whether you’re in an instance or not.

Vesuvius.9874:

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

It affects the progression of the history, not the ending.

Expecting a personalised ending in an MMO where everyone shares the same story is quite delusional.

the personal story is instanced, there is nothing shared about that.
try again please but this time research a bit more.

It’s still the same story regardless of whether you’re in an instance or not.

and that’s exactly the problem, we have choices but not really.
you choose one thing, get an outcome, nothing changes and you end up with exactly the same.
if the personal story really gives choices make them visible, have them affect the story and later on see the results for your efforts.

sorudo.9054:

and that’s exactly the problem, we have choices but not really.
you choose one thing, get an outcome, nothing changes and you end up with exactly the same.
if the personal story really gives choices make them visible, have them affect the story and later on see the results for your efforts.

OK, let’s do this your way.

1. You play your story, make a choice, and you see your results later in the world.
2. 5 minutes later, I do my story, make a different choice, and see my results later in the world.

Whose change should exist in the world? Yours? Or mine?

The things the OP complains about are common to the MMO genre. In WoW, for instance, I never felt like I was even participating in the main story, although I did a plethora of quest chains that told “stories” that I would later repeat on alts. The same happens in GW2. It’s baked into the genre conventions.

ToR did a somewhat better job of telling stories, but the same thing happened. When done with a quest line in the open world, the mobs still respawn in their endless cycle. The same thing happens in Orr in GW2, or any other zone in which story is lodged. The Pact needs to rally from the destruction of its airship fleet in Verdant Brink every couple of hours or so.

ESO has implemented a very small feature that at last gives the idea that things change. NPC’s that are hostile while you are doing a quest line can become neutral once you’ve completed that quest line. Like I said, a small nod to things changing. WoW tried the thing where people who were further into a zone’s progression experienced different things than those less far along. There were tons of complaints about not being able to play with friends as a result. MMO’s have to be static in this way because not all players do the stories at the same time.

Ideally, someone who wants a game where change happens based on their actions should be playing SPRPG’s. That’s the genre where things change. It’s also the genre in which there are many less hours of play for your money. Both genres serve different needs, OP. I’m sorry GW2 did not serve yours.

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

It affects the progression of the history, not the ending.

Expecting a personalised ending in an MMO where everyone shares the same story is quite delusional.

the personal story is instanced, there is nothing shared about that.
try again please but this time research a bit more.

You miss the point. Sharing the story doesn’t mean you play it in the same instance as someone else.

It means that all players get to kill Zhaitain in the end. The next season starts with the prerequisite that you did in a specific manner (you united all races and Orders into a single entity, the Pact, and you marched to Orr).

It can’t work if the story would start branching out. If your choices affected the final outcome of the story, there wouldn’t be a common thread for the next stories to follow.

Like, what if you chose to kill Trehearne or not? What if you could save Eir? How does S3 then? Are they alive or dead?

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

sorudo.9054:

RabbitUp.8294:

If you mean the launch-era trailers, they have nothing to do with “Living World”. The personal story is indeed affected by your choices, the ones you make at character creation and your choice of order.

yet in the end nothing affects the story, ether way the story barely to not changes whatever you choose.
i finally hat the time to get trough the 1:30 last mission (kill zaithan) and there was nothing to be found of my choices.

It affects the progression of the history, not the ending.

Expecting a personalised ending in an MMO where everyone shares the same story is quite delusional.

the personal story is instanced, there is nothing shared about that.
try again please but this time research a bit more.

I think researching a bit more is absolutely in order.

Immediately after the manifesto came out, Anet published a clarification. Ree Sosebee was talking about personal story, Colin was talking about dynamic events. This was discussed at the time in great detail.

Taking an old trailer out of context is almost always going to get you some misinformation, because the other stuff surrounding the trailer is as important as the trailer itself.