Guild Wars 2

I JUST finished a 3hr 15 min exploration run (Asura assist line) on CM and after spending over 25s in repairs and HOURS of frustration I may not go back into an instance again. or at least until some sort of balancing is done which is a shame b/c I’m a PvE player.

My group had to corpse run/kill every boss but one and we got a whopping 15s off the last boss and 0 loot.

Man, so disappointed right now. It’s like they weren’t even tested.. I mean sharpshooter Morgan or whatever his name is w/ the 20 rifleman standing at the top. Are you kidding me?? And FROST… it took us over 35 minutes to kill him. We graveyard zerged him and I had to repair twice during that 1 encounter.

Hrmph.

Your post reminds me a lot of Vanilla/BC WoW…

This is a good thing, and I hope it doesn’t change.

Okay, I haven’t done any dungeon content yet, so don’t hold me to this, but…

I’m under the impression that the “story” mode (you do this first, I assume?) is the relatively easy intro to the dungeon, and that the “explorable” mode is meant to be extremely challenging content.

Is there some sort of guide or video out there yet that can help? Would it actually help, or is the explorable dungeon stuff as “skill and twitch” heavy as I hear it is?

^ True…you have to think a bit with your builds in order to succeed…oh the humanity!

Well, explorable mode is supposed to be considerably more challenging than the story mode. That being said, being downed frequently is normal. You really need to know what you’re doing in order to get through the explorable modes (not trying to say that you didn’t know what you were doing).
Of course in your case, the dungeon might indeed be unbalanced, but I wouldn’t really know :S

Maybe they’re still getting their footing? That is to say that, yes, they might not know what they’re doing yet.

Not a bad thing at all, mind you. The one thing I’ve noticed over and over again about this game is that it bites you hard if you try to approach it with the mindset (or experiences) of a more “traditional” MMORPG. Quite a bit less math and quite a bit more “get out of the way! evade roll that!” going on here.

As to the lack of loot, I wouldn’t even being to fathom a guess. That said, I was under the impression that a token system, akin to that seen in World of Warcraft, had been implemented in order to get loot from said dungeons.

Mystic Beaver.4795:

This is a good thing, and I hope it doesn’t change.

Yes, please DON’T nerf. It’s frustrating when the fails happen but the satisfaction you get when you finally do it!

I’ve done a number of dungeons now and story/explorable some successful some not and it’s a blast.

It’s too easy for people to come here and say ‘make it easier’ and the game is only a little over a week old -.-

While every dungeon will obviously need some rebalancing and bug fixes, (and hopefully get some more dynamic events, would be cool to have done a dungeon 50 times and suddenly get a new event you haven’t seen yet), I think the overall level of difficulty is fine.

Story is definately doable with any PUG provided they’re willing to have some basic communication and not ragequit after the first wipe. I’ve done some pugs where people ragequitted after one boss wipe (“well that’s that, this needs to get nerfed >:(”) and then got another group where we just talked a little before the battle tried 2 times and won.

Explorable is hard as nails but since it’s SUPPOSED to be that way I think it’s a good thing. Trust me, some basic teamwork (use those combos, use them) and perseverance will get you through that dungeon.

I’ve also noticed the time of each run lowering dramatically each time I’ve done the same one. So just becasue you did 5 hellish hours the first time doesn’t mean you will have such a bad time the second. On the contrary, you might be surprised how much you’ve progressed in skill.

I’ll try my best not to be too mean, but lets face it you’re essentially moaning about the game not holding your hand and spoiling you.
Anyway GW2 has been designed that there are multiple viable means of level progression, you can literally hit max level by purely crafting or by pvp. You also need to understand that GW2 does not have Raid, people looking for challenging instance group action can find said action in the dungeons. So yeah dungeons are suppose to be difficult, but then again this isn’t WoW you don’t have to do dungeons to get the best gear or progress your character. You do dungeons for the challenge.

With regards to Morgan, I will say that is one fight we did manage to have a pretty simple time with. We pulled Morgan back and kill him then ranged down all the adds one by one once Morgan was dead. That part wasn’t too bad. The part before it with adds camping us as we spawned was not fun at all.

Sounds like they didn’t have a mesmer, with it, you will never have any problems with debuffs.

As one said before, it is a good thing – because it means, you really have an achievement if you handle the dungeon. Still I think you need a basic setup, you can’t run in theire with 5 elementalists or 5 rangers. Maybe thats diferent, if every char is 80, so they can vary better..

Challenging and stupid for the sake of being so are two entirely different things, and honestly my experience with explore mode has been awful. The difficulty curb is so high that your forcing your players to play through these dungeons in very specific and linear ways. This is counter-intuitive and just not the way the game should be played.

If these dungeons are designed to be endgame ‘tough as nails’ content, why are you letting 35s and 45s take stabs at them? Also, since the Explore versions are different than the story mode, you really can’t use story mode to ‘practice’ the dungeon. Your essentially spending 3 hours and 20 silver to ‘learn’ the dungeon and learn the tricks to ‘shortcut’ it easily. It’s silly and needs to be fixed.

I’ve run a fair amount of Explore Dungeons, and every SINGLE group wipes multiple times, its pretty much going to happen – this should not be the case.

It’s a hard game. I think other MMOs have really softened some people up. And I say that in the friendliest way possible. My advice is to stick with it… you WILL get better… and in the process you will become a better gamer.

SoPP.7034:

Mystic Beaver.4795:

This is a good thing, and I hope it doesn’t change.

Yes, please DON’T nerf. It’s frustrating when the fails happen but the satisfaction you get when you finally do it!

I’ve done a number of dungeons now and story/explorable some successful some not and it’s a blast.

It’s too easy for people to come here and say ‘make it easier’ and the game is only a little over a week old -.-

Difficult content is fine. But the reward needs to worth the hassle, which is not case at the moment.

blur.7918:

It’s a hard game.

It really isn’t, and this is part of the problem right here. Solo content is extremely easy. Story dungeons are also pretty easy. Explore dungeons are virtually impossible without multiple wipes or very specific setups. It really, really needs to be looked at and adjusted.

ShRNA.4376:

Difficult content is fine. But the reward needs to worth the hassle, which is not case at the moment.

It’s the only way to get dungeon armor/weapons. If you do them you’ll have that armor. That’s worth something.

ZionNow.2138:

ShRNA.4376:

Difficult content is fine. But the reward needs to worth the hassle, which is not case at the moment.

It’s the only way to get dungeon armor/weapons. If you do them you’ll have that armor. That’s worth something.

If you knew anything about how GW2 handles its armor stats, you’d see that its really not worth it at all and you can get identical gear in other means.

3h15m I still remember my 8 hours foundry run in GW1.
People complain to easily.
Just try it again and learn the mobs and skills.
Try to work together as a team.

Mystic Beaver.4795:

Your post reminds me a lot of Vanilla/BC WoW…

Or tons of other MMOs I was in, instances start with challenging content then QQ starts, time passes and they become ‘dances’ without any thinking involved. GW2 is not gear treadmill and one can get a lot of stuff without going into dungeons — armor and other stuff from dungeons should be reserved for teams skilled enough to finish them.

Mystic Beaver.4795:

This is a good thing, and I hope it doesn’t change.

Agreed.

I really hope that will never change.

Premium.4075:

If you knew anything about how GW2 handles its armor stats, you’d see that its really not worth it at all and you can get identical gear in other means.

I know how GW2 handles things. And I’ll correct that.

It’s a skin you can’t get any other way. I’m still baffled by what makes the armor suddenly worthless since it has no better stats. At the end of the day, wether or not the armor gives better stats, it shows you spent a lot of time and effort in the dungeons. It must just be me but I really can’t see what makes it different from for example WoW tier raid gear.

the prime reason why I ever got WoW top tier armor or GW1 prestige armor is because I saw it in a city and thought “I want that”. I’ve never really given that much of a crap about the better stats (except of course, when I needed it to do the “next step”), for it was always about being one of the few who had it. This game makes it hard to have it, so I approve and I definately feel it makes the armor worth something

Premium.4075:

ZionNow.2138:

ShRNA.4376:

Difficult content is fine. But the reward needs to worth the hassle, which is not case at the moment.

It’s the only way to get dungeon armor/weapons. If you do them you’ll have that armor. That’s worth something.

If you knew anything about how GW2 handles its armor stats, you’d see that its really not worth it at all and you can get identical gear in other means.

So … doing anything in game should be … what? paid? It sounds too much like work! I’ll do them because that’s fun, because group of friends will have 3h+ fun trying to crack it… I cant even count how much fun memories I have from the wipes and how few from the boring (easy) runs, killing that last boss after fighting and trying to figure out strategy is rewarding enough. No hand-holding please, ever.

Hopefully explorable mode will have (or already do) enough randomness to present more and more challenges for repeated runs too.

And downscaling is a nasty surprise for the ‘standard’ MMO crowd who expect to overlevel instance and faceroll it );> — I love it! No more QQing in chat to ‘boost’ someone trough them, no more asking to ‘drag’ someone trough, … just that is worth it every virtual currency I’ll ‘earn’ in game.

I just wish that you could kind of avoid getting one shotted… but you can’t avoid a rifle bullet that is instant travel… You can only hope you are being lucky on your dodge. Because yes, as an elementalist, I get one shotted by a rifle with 30 in earth and full vitality gear.
It’s not fun when you die from something you cannot avoid in any ways. Add more skills to it. Like a charge that one shot you but it take 1 second to cast before charging. Or a lazer that start small to do no damage and grow into a huge lazer that deal massive damage. Not just a auto attack one shot.
Also, remove the 5-9 seconds knockdowns, fears, stuns, etc.etc.

I really enjoy a challenge. But a challenge like halo 2 legendary mode. Not like a level 10 trying to kill a level 85 mob in WoW.

ZionNow.2138:

Premium.4075:

If you knew anything about how GW2 handles its armor stats, you’d see that its really not worth it at all and you can get identical gear in other means.

I know how GW2 handles things. And I’ll correct that.

It’s a skin you can’t get any other way. I’m still baffled by what makes the armor suddenly worthless since it has no better stats. At the end of the day, wether or not the armor gives better stats, it shows you spent a lot of time and effort in the dungeons. It must just be me but I really can’t see what makes it different from for example WoW tier raid gear.

the prime reason why I ever got WoW top tier armor or GW1 prestige armor is because I saw it in a city and thought “I want that”. I’ve never really given that much of a crap about the better stats (except of course, when I needed it to do the “next step”), for it was always about being one of the few who had it. This game makes it hard to have it, so I approve and I definately feel it makes the armor worth something

Dont play wow so I cant really compare against that, but personally I wouldnt go through the “stress” of something when I can get it elsewhere. Now if you’re all for looks thats great, it is a great reward for YOU but not for ME so when I said its not worthwhile I was obviously stating MY opinion which is still correct because I believe it is not worthwhile, and it seems so does a few others. The rewards in games can be cool looking things or very beneficial things.

Take Legendaries for example, they serve no purpose other than to look cool and those that get them, good on them but it will provide zero benefit to you other than looking good. The amount of time and effort and sometimes expense to get one to me, is not worth it because I dont care much for a flashy sword with particle effects when its just as good as my Excotic.

Dont misunderstand me for saying Dungeon gear is a waste, I am saying its not worthwhile (to some like me and other people in this thread). You may like looks and that is a reward, I am not.

To the the people who think they’re “hardcore” by saying they hope dungeons remain unbalanced and uninviting, you read the part where he got ZERO loot from the last boss, right? That’s stupid, why would you want that to stay the same?

And why would you want vanilla WoW again? That was an awful experience, it was only good because we didn’t know any better at the time. Now we do.

Since GW2 doesn’t have raids I’d say the explore modes are the equivalent of raids, in that they are the ultimate PvE challenge.

The rewards might need looking into, but the difficulty needs to remain. Otherwise all PvE content in GW2 will be trivial.

Tom Gore hit it on the head.
There’s bound to be some ACTUAL problems with dungeons; mechanical problems, issues with the reward system…. But difficulty isn’t a problem like those.

That thinking is actually very similar to the people who wanted Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls to be patched for it’s ‘excessive’ difficulty. And let’s face it, no one respected those people.

Dungeons in this game aren’t your typical tank/heal run through dungeon, you have to strategize and approach them way differently. I was way frustrated on my first dungeon and it took me 3 hours. But trust me keep going through them they get a lot better.

Doc Robot.5073:

Okay, I haven’t done any dungeon content yet, so don’t hold me to this, but…

I’m under the impression that the “story” mode (you do this first, I assume?) is the relatively easy intro to the dungeon, and that the “explorable” mode is meant to be extremely challenging content.

Is there some sort of guide or video out there yet that can help? Would it actually help, or is the explorable dungeon stuff as “skill and twitch” heavy as I hear it is?

For those that played gw1 explorable mode is basically hard mode. I hear as long as you have a well rounded group of players it is hard but this massive repair bill run doesent happen. Mainly if your dieing that much you should pribally realize you shouldent be there yet or with that group.

Edit: As i forgot to add. The dungeons are for the Armor appearance you get from the tokens and the raw difficulty of finishing it. If that isent for you. Simply dont do them.

My issue with the original post is not the difficulty, but the rewards.

15s and no loot? That seems either buggy, or totally not even worth the trouble.

Spartyr.6795:

My issue with the original post is not the difficulty, but the rewards.

15s and no loot? That seems either buggy, or totally not even worth the trouble.

Well you did get the armor piece, didn’t you?

Thanks for the responses. I apologize if my initial post came across as “complaining” It was the heat of the moment. I literally had JUST finished the dungeon.

Like some have stated here, I’m not looking to get my hand “held” and I question if some of you posting here have actually run that specific story line, in that specific dungeon. If you haven’t, I don’t think you can really understand why people may think it is overly difficult. There is an area right after the 2nd boss you have to clear to make your way to Frost (endboss) and all the mobs are chained in that room. I’m talking over 10 elites, and 20+ normal mobs. Our group comp wasn’t horrible but I don’t think group comp should matter in this game since Anet has said that all professions are more than less, created equal, not holy trinity, etc, etc…

It’s areas like this that lead me to believe instances need to be balanced and polished a bit more. That was just 1 example but seriously, I don’t think graveyard zerging bosses, much less normal mobs is really what Anet was intending for groups to have to do.

That being said, I enjoy higher difficulty content. I do have other MMO experience and no, it’s not just WoW so I’m familiar with the process. I also understand that this game really can’t be compared to X or Y.. All I am saying is the instances need some balance. Bosses shouldn’t be able to shoot through pillars, doors, etc.. Mob packs shouldn’t take graveyard zergs to clear and the rewards need to be worth the effort.

Like some have stated here, if explorer mode is intended to be our endgame PvE content, they shouldn’t allow 35, 45+ to enter. It’s just setting them all up for failure. And for the record, I’m a lvl 59 Thief so it’s not like I just jumped into an explorer mode of my equal level, undergeared, expecting to just blow through content.

15s and no armor after close to 4 hours of my time and a 25s repair bill just isn’t worth it and honestly isn’t much fun. It’s the 1st time I’ve ever had that feeling in this game TO DATE.

I think the difficulty is hard for the devs to tune around not having the mechanics of healer tank dps where everything is more or less a free for all or you have to try and do all 3 roles. It was my first real big reservation about this game but I would venture to guess that a majority of the crowd playing this game are going to have their endgame be PVP…

It feels like they put dungeons in because they felt obligated to but didn’t really want to I feel like they really wanted to make a PVP centric game and had to put some PVE on there to have that universal appeal or to give the illusion that for those of you that enjoy PVE we have something for you as well..

kwix.3204:

blur.7918:

It’s a hard game.

It really isn’t, and this is part of the problem right here. Solo content is extremely easy. Story dungeons are also pretty easy. Explore dungeons are virtually impossible without multiple wipes or very specific setups. It really, really needs to be looked at and adjusted.

Have you gotten 100% clears in all of the areas in Orr yet? I always seen area completion as a solo activity. And theres nothing extremely easy about it.