Guild Wars 2

If you have the money to spend on Alienware, Then build your own. Well, the great thing about buying a pre-built IS the warranty but honestly, that’s it but that could be enough for people. Your topic is misleading for I was expecting NVidia tweaks. (which I don’t need but I’m a tech head and like to read what others write)

To tweak a computer. Keep it mind ‘performance’:

OS only hard drive, preferable SSD. Look up Windows7 tweaks and Windows7 SSD tweaks (a must). Win7 has a ton of bloated processes you don’t need. Re-direction of your swapfile from the SSD to a physical magneto optical drive a must.

Game only hard drive, preferably a 10k rpm. You can use a separate SSD but you might run into games file swapping which could lead to issues.

SSD’s are fast but they do not handle small files such as INet temp files, Windows Temp directory and file swapping, Firefox cache too. You could even add databases to this list. Look it up and check it out for yourselves.

For ever 20 years now, The easiest and best thing you can do to a computer is throw more memory in it. RAM! Keeping that in mind, When you look up processors for instance, You can tell ‘the more cache memory the chip has, the more expensive it is.’ Hmmmm.. Greed!

Video cards are basically the same thing but there is more technology you will need to know about the cards to know if the card is a 4-cylinder or a V8. With NVidia, it’s memory (a shocker there) and how many CUDA cores it can handle. 128bit, 256bit, 384bit, 512bit. Think of it like a bigger pipe handling more.

A quality motherboard that ties everything together. Some mobo chipsets work better than others.

Well I hope this helps. I myself upgraded from having a Dual Core2 E8200 to a socket2011 i7-3820. Very similar to the socket 1155 i7’s with a couple differences. No on board graphics mainly but twice the bandwidth! Oh and guess what… More cache memory! Yeah I couldn’t afford the 6 cores. Didn’t replace any hard drives. I run a 64Gb SSD OS drive. I will install some applications here too. 10k rpm Velociraptor and a third dump drive for anything else. I didn’t upgrade the video card and still run a NVidia 460GTX. I also kept the price down getting a microATX board in place of the full ATX since I don’t have add-on cards really anymore and didn’t need SLI. RAM is soo cheap! 16GB 4×4. Add in a SeaSonic 650w PSU and ended up spending under 700.00.

I can really tell the difference between a older bottleneck CPU machine compared now to the new bottleneck GPU machine.

Samaul.6073:

I have found the failure rate of even high-end components to be extremely high.

I don’t know what you’re buying but I’ve not had that experience. If reviews show a negative trend, I don’t buy it. Due diligence. Powa to da people! an’ all dat.

I also build for clients and I make darn skippy I don’t give them reasons to call me afterwards. I’m an engineer who doesn’t have that-guy-who-deals-with-the-customers-so-the-engineers-don’t-have-to.

Samaul.6073:

If you buy OEM components with a 30, 60 or 90 day warranty, you may have to go directly to the manufacturer for replacement which means YOU have to contact the company, get the RMA and pay the shipping cost for the item and wait until a replacement comes back.

The only OEM component I know with that short warranty is Intel CPUs and that’s only if you buy in bulk; the retail still has a full 3 (or is it 5?) year warranty.

Contacting the mfr usually just involves filling out a web form for an RMA and they send you a shipping label and have UPS pick it up—and that’s if Amazon won’t do the same. I really can’t see how simpler it is than that.

(Oh yeah, I did have Corsair and Crucial memory fail on my a few times and those have a lifetime warranty.)

Samaul.6073:

If for example, you buy the extended warranty from newegg, you can get the component replaced quickly with no questions asked and they are likely to pay the shipping. Get the extended warranty, its worth it.

Likely to pay?
Extended warranties benefit the guarantor, not the guarantee.
If a component fails, the only question to answer is to supply diagnostics results, which you would have anyway to determine that the component indeed failed.
Much hubbub about nothing.

Samaul.6073:

By the time you get all of your components, burn test them, build and configure them, you will find you have just about bought a new Alienware system.

Not even close. First, you won’t get all your components (i.e. Gigabyte) hand-picked; you will get what they got the best bulk deal on. Second, you will pay twice as much (you think they’re going to build it and support it for free?). I’m not saying anything against Alienware and the like, they do bring high-end PCs to the masses (rather than disposable Best Buy hp’s, e-machines) but what you are saying isn’t accurate.

Samaul.6073:

All of those extended warranties on your components will pay for a 3 or 4 year alienware warranty.

You think Alienware isn’t going to ask questions, have you reinstall Windows on top of itself before exchanging parts? If one of my components breaks after 3 or 4 years, that’s my cue to upgrade! (3 years is two generations) I just wish my video cards would break so I can quit agonising over upgrading. (OK not really.)

Samaul.6073:

Nakama.8976:

Samaul.6073:

I drive a liquid-cooled Alienware Aurora R3 with an i7 2700k CPU overclocked to 4GHz. It has 8 GB of 1866 RAM and 2x Nvidia GTX 560 ti SLI. I am getting about 40-80 fps at 1080p on high (autodetect) settings everywhere including wvwvw. My 3DMark 11 scores for my desktop:

X2898: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3883215
P8299: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3883418

According to 3dmark, your CPU runs at 2.4 – 2.8GHz
Your GTX core clock is at 822MHz.
Your RAM is clocked at 1333MHz
where’s the overclock?

And btw, your performance score should be way higher than P8300. At least P10500 with that setup, after OC of course.

It is a turbo-boost factory overclock. The actual overclock is 4.1 GHz. AW maxed the multiplier. I have tested the stability and it is a rock-solid stable overclock. All instability issues I have had have been GPU related. I could probably push the 3DMark11 score higher but at the price of stability. I think what is limiting the 3DMark11 score is the closeness of the video cards, they are right next to each other. I could turn my case fans much higher to cool them down but that makes my pc sound like a vacum cleaner.

I thought you said something about watercooling.
And your “guide” said something about spacing your gfx as far from each other as possible. I guess those AW mobo’s aren’t that good for gaming as they say.
“Factory overclock”, what a funny term.

Funnily enough I just replaced the closed pump liquid cooling in my system a few days ago. You’re absolutely right about GW2 being able to get your system temps up fairly high. The pump died in my cooling unit however, but I replaced it.

This thread really made me feel lucky for both my OEM/home built Desktop and laptop(yes a OEM home built laptop they are out there and they are great) my Desktop 3,8ghz 2600k 8gb 1600 with GTX570 runs the game WvW/Raid events 80 FPS stable with max settings suple-sample no tearing no vsync using the last WHQL driver for the 570s(seem like one of the few cards that is super optimized) and my laptop useing 3610QM 3.4ghz 16gb 1800mhz GTX670M runs at 55-65 max setting native sampleing and no vsync in same events/WvW (50fps stable with super sampling).

This talk of alienware is silly stop it.there 30-35% more costly with generic brand parts.
so far about the only one I can agree with in this thread is Rolo as he seems to have it under control from one electronics engineer student to one Electronics Engineer I’m let him handle it(other then that rather indecent FPS and so forth from his page 1 post but between GW2 and geforce drivers that’s going to change between everyone set up) ~

I’m a little confused as to why the OP’s machine benchmark results are so low. I am running a machine with similar specs (2600K vs. 2700K, 16 GB RAM vs. 8 GB RAM) with vastly superior results. I guess that 3D benchmark tool is bottlenecked by RAM.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/4006713/3dm11/3883215

EDIT: Duh! I just noticed the clock speed differences.

BTW, is there a FPS monitor in GW2? I’m curious to see what kind of load the game is putting on my PC. Although I can guess it’s higher then normal due to the audible increase in fan RPMs.

Laurie.1698:

Looking for some advice here. I followed all the steps at the top of this thread, I have NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 Ti video card NVIDIA 306.2 beta driver installed, AMD Phenom II x6 1100 T, 3.30 Ghz, 8 GB of ram, running Win7 64 bit.

I know there must be more I can check for (I hope hehe) because I’m still getting the bluescreen crashing. Its random, all the sudden, loud buzzing noise in my headphones and I’m bluescreened with memory dump and reboot. I looked at the dump file and there were a few indicators that it might have been from my virus program which is Avast, so I disabled before I played and its still happening.

Any advice, something to try, would GREATLY be appreciated. Thank you for your time reading this.

Blue screens can be either hardware or software, it’s pretty difficult to tell unless you know what the error code displayed during the blue screen actually means.

Check out this site and see if the error you see is mentioned.

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/fixtheproblem/ht/stoperrors.htm

If that fails or is too confusing you can try to run a chkdsk /r repair to see if there are any problems with the OS. Open a command prompt in Windows and enter “chkdsk /r”.

Oconell.8673:

Samaul.6073:

7. Get a can of compressed air, open up your case and carefully blow all of the dust out of your system.

Wrong. Don’t do this or you may very well damage your components. The correct way to do that is to get an air compressor and compress it yourself. But that’s neither cheap or efficient.
Cans of compressed air contain fluid that can damage your components. Also you can damage your fans by spinning them too fast when using a can of compressed air, and presumably even the components they are wired to.

Edit: In my opinion the best way is the old way, use a tiny brush or a vacuum not close to the components.

I disagree. the compressed air COULD damage components IF used improperly.
the only risk from this is getting a cold liquid on hot PC components. So…as a saftey measure, use the compressed air BEFORE you boot up. Also, the air usually doesn’t turn to liquid untill after you have used it enough for the can to get cold enough for the N2 to remain a liquid. Just have 2 cans handy and switch out when the first gets cold. Turning the can upsidedown or close to will also let the cold liquid escape so try to keep the can upright.

compressing air with a compressor adds moisture to the air so you would need water traps and filters, I think i’ll stick with my cans of dust remover

and there is no way a vacum cleaner is ever getting close to my rig!

-edited to remove my false statement of Nitrogen being a component of compressed air

Brayzen.6287:

Most compressed air does have liquid, it is liquid Nitrogen.
Nitrogen has to be extremely cold to remain a liquid, it vaporizes as soon as it enters the air.

Canned air does NOT contain LH2, which is only a liquid below -300-something degrees Fahrenheit; it contains fluorocarbons (FC). LH2 would freeze and shatter your PC and your hands.

Brayzen.6287:

the only risk from this is getting a cold liquid on hot PC components.

Electronics love cold (inverse temperature coefficient) and this can be one way to troubleshoot component breakdown, likewise with a heat gun. The risk is generating static electricity, which components like as much as you’d like being struck by lightning.

Brayzen.6287:

Turning the can upsidedown or close to will also let the cold liquid escape so try to keep the can upright.

This part is true. When the can gets cold, stop using it until it goes back to room temperature. The cold isn’t from the FCs, it is from the rapid pressure drop created by exhausting compressed air.

Brayzen.6287:

compressing air with a compressor adds moisture to the air so you would need water traps and filters, I think i’ll stick with my cans of dust remover

Unless you are in a very arid region, the air already contains ~40% moisture, which electronics like anyway (dampens static electricity discharges); compressing air and then discharging it won’t make a garden hose. Your can of dust remover already has liquid FCs in it.

Brayzen.6287:

and there is no way a vacum cleaner is ever getting close to my rig!

There are ESD vacuums specifically made for this purpose. It’s a bit over the top and, frankly, I don’t use one; I use a $60 non-ESD-certified “data vac” that works perfectly and quickly without ongoing costs.

Laurie.1698:

I know there must be more I can check for (I hope hehe) because I’m still getting the bluescreen crashing. Its random, all the sudden, loud buzzing noise in my headphones and I’m bluescreened with memory dump and reboot. I looked at the dump file and there were a few indicators that it might have been from my virus program which is Avast, so I disabled before I played and its still happening.

It isn’t random; it may be difficult to see the pattern/circumstances but some set of conditions are met to cause it. Also, I don’t know why so many people report that they get an error but leave out what that error is: it is your primary lead into diagnosing the issue.

SideByEach.3614:

BTW, is there a FPS monitor in GW2?

The options screen. Additionally, you can use MSI Afterburner to display more useful info (GPU util, temp, FPS, VRAM usage, GPU fan speed) on an on-screen display or Logitech G13, G15, G19 displays.

You also need to monitor CPU utilisation as—and this is where I eat crow for having stated otherwise—the CPU does limit GW2 in some situations:
I went to Canal Ward waypoint, looking at a very foggy Lion’s Arch. My FPS dropped to 50 but my GPU util was only 70% but my CPUs were ~90% with CPU1 hitting 100%. This is after some more tweaking* and trying to find an area that got me <60FPS. My next question would be, “would more cores help?” since I’m at 4.2GHz and I neither want to increase CPU voltage nor want liquid/Peltier cooling.

*My GPU tweaking thus far, prompted by others’ FPS posts giving my the impression my performance isn’t where it should be. I went back to “Auto-detect” (everything on high) but still set reflections to “Terrain & sky”. I increased my GPU voltage to 1.025v and increased clock from 833 to 866 and this card really woke up; I get an unwaivering 60FPS where I didn’t before. I’m still looking for the threshold (GPU resets, lock-ups) but right now, my sub-60FPS is due to GW2 being CPU-bound in this particular context (all that fog has something to do with it; there isn’t much else going on).

Edit: a few minutes after posting this, standing in the same location in LA shows a little less fog, a few more players, but a solid 60FPS with CPUs ~65% util

LOL I was just about to say that considering Alienware…a.k.a Dell was the 6th word in the OP I did not need to read the rest =P

Thanks for the Nvidia advice. I’m running Win 7 64x, 32GB RAM, GTX 570, AMD6100 XT and my frame rate is 35-45 fps…reading this I can’t help but feel I’m being shortchanged somewhere?

Rolo.9248:

Brayzen.6287:

Most compressed air does have liquid, it is liquid Nitrogen.
Nitrogen has to be extremely cold to remain a liquid, it vaporizes as soon as it enters the air.

Canned air does NOT contain LH2, which is only a liquid below -300-something degrees Fahrenheit; it contains fluorocarbons (FC). LH2 would freeze and shatter your PC and your hands.

Brayzen.6287:

the only risk from this is getting a cold liquid on hot PC components.

Electronics love cold (inverse temperature coefficient) and this can be one way to troubleshoot component breakdown, likewise with a heat gun. The risk is generating static electricity, which components like as much as you’d like being struck by lightning.

Brayzen.6287:

Turning the can upsidedown or close to will also let the cold liquid escape so try to keep the can upright.

This part is true. When the can gets cold, stop using it until it goes back to room temperature. The cold isn’t from the FCs, it is from the rapid pressure drop created by exhausting compressed air.

Brayzen.6287:

compressing air with a compressor adds moisture to the air so you would need water traps and filters, I think i’ll stick with my cans of dust remover

Unless you are in a very arid region, the air already contains ~40% moisture, which electronics like anyway (dampens static electricity discharges); compressing air and then discharging it won’t make a garden hose. Your can of dust remover already has liquid FCs in it.

Brayzen.6287:

and there is no way a vacum cleaner is ever getting close to my rig!

There are ESD vacuums specifically made for this purpose. It’s a bit over the top and, frankly, I don’t use one; I use a $60 non-ESD-certified “data vac” that works perfectly and quickly without ongoing

I stand corrected. Liquid Nitrogen is not the component used in the compressed air. I should have known better as I pumped the stuff when I worked in the oilfield and knew it was neg 300 something F. I apologize to forum readers for that bit of mis-information and shall “TEBOW” for 15 mins in repentance.

A few of your points I wish to adress:

I still cannot get comfortable with the idea of using air from a compressor.There is a difference between moisture content of the air and actually spraying moisture onto a component….computer components are NOT going to be happy with water on them. A compressor may not produce water like a garden hose but can come darned close. This is FACT, not assumption. Will it happen at all times? No.But enough for me to rule it out for myself. I have used compressors for many years, and on a humid summer day I have seen heavy water misting in the air the compressor produces if there is not a good water removal system installed. Water also can accumulate in low spots in the air hose untill enough volume has accumulated and then you get a heavy blast of water from it. Any professional painter who uses an air spraygun, or someone who uses airtools for a living can testify to the amount of water produced by air compressors, hence the need for elaborate water removal systems. I will never be comfortable with the risk of having damp parts.

Yes, pc components like cooler temps but they do NOT like rapid temp changes/thermal cycling! (Do a search on thermal shock/thermal stress and pc components if you require proof), my statement was based on the basic principles of expansion and contraction caused by temperature variances and the stress extreme variances can cause on metals and other materials.It has been proven that even frequent power cycling (and resultant thermal cycling)introduces enough thermal shock to reduce the lifespan of your pc. Getting extremely cold liquid on a hot component multiplies this effect.


As far as using a vacum cleaner, my concerns were the risk of static electricity.I am leery of it and take precautions when inside my case such as wearing surgical gloves, and using a normal vacum for cleaning a computer does not fit well with those concerns. A plastic nozzle of a vacuum is NOT an insulator against static discharge.In some research I have done on the topic in the past I have learned that the air/dust mixture going through the tip of the nozzle creates static…. I have read about, and heard from many that have used vaccuums without problem, but it is not a risk I personally am willing to take.

Laurie, without knowing more about the error message you’re getting when you’re blue screening, its hard to be specific in troubleshooting the issue,

buuut….

as its happened a few times, there’s a few things you can do that “might” help you identify the fault, may correct any issues that have come up because of it, and at the very least, shouldnt make anything worse.

First of all, especially as the system has been forced to close a few times now, its worth checking your system files are all running ok.

A nice easy way to do this is with the built in system file checker.

Open an elevated command prompt (right click the command prompt icon in your file menu and select run as administrator) and simply enter the command
SFC /Scannow.

What will happen now is your pc will begin verifying that all your system files are all intact and working as expected (much like verifying the game cache on a game in Steam)
Depending on the speed of your pc, this process will take a little while, and I’d recommend doing it in safe mode, if you can, although its not essential.

If everything is fine, great. If not, SFC will attempt to replace fix any issues it finds. If corrupt files are found, reboot your pc and perform the scan again as more corrupt files may become visible once others have been fixed (as a rule of thumb, if you find a corrupt file, keep rebooting and scanning till you have a good run of 2-3 scans with no errors).

Once this is done, grab a usb disk or blank cd, head over to memtest.org and snag the latest copy of the memtest iso, burn it, and then boot from it.

As your system bears all the hallmarks of being a custom build rather than store bought, its worth running memtest to ensure that your electronics retailer of choice didn’t send you some dodgy ram. It doesnt matter if its the latest Ocz Ultramega ram of pwnage, or value ram from the thrift store, occasionally memory sticks have physical errors, and they may only show up when a specific application (like GW2) accesses a dodgy sector on the stick that normally doesnt get touched.

Needless to say, run it through a basic scan. If errors show up, you’ll probably want to consider replacing the ram. Experienced users can sometimes even use the info from the tool to make an educated guess as to which stick of ram is faulty, and I’m sure someone here, if not myself, would be happy to help if it came to that.

Whilst there is a lot more I could suggest beyond that, in all honesty the best thing I could really do is ask for the actual error text you’re getting when your pc bluescreens. If it makes no sense, or you’re not sure, don’t forget to have a look in the system event log (control panel – admin tools – event viewer) and see if anything specific is failing around the time your pc crashes in the system logs.

Liquid cooled rig with 2 560’s SLI and only 40-80 FPS? I run a core I7-3770k with a single gtx 580 and 32Gb ram, and I get 50-110 FPS even in WvW. (CPU Overclocked to 4GHZ on air, temp never exceeds 50 celsius)

How is it you get significantly lower FPS than me with what appears to be on the surface a superior rig?

Answer: SLI is something that should be avoided at all costs. VERY few games are actually coded with this in mind (even if Nvidia says it has a profile for the game, or that the game maker says it supports SLI is NOT the same thing) 99% of the time SLI = lower FPS than single card solutions.

A game coded for SLI with drivers that are coded for SLI = better performance than a single card solution, but again 99.9% of games dont fit this.

Notsure.7028:

Liquid cooled rig with 2 560’s SLI and only 40-80 FPS? I run a core I7-3770k with a single gtx 580 and 32Gb ram, and I get 50-110 FPS even in WvW. (CPU Overclocked to 4GHZ on air, temp never exceeds 50 celsius)

How is it you get significantly lower FPS than me with what appears to be on the surface a superior rig?

Answer: SLI is something that should be avoided at all costs. VERY few games are actually coded with this in mind (even if Nvidia says it has a profile for the game, or that the game maker says it supports SLI is NOT the same thing) 99% of the time SLI = lower FPS than single card solutions.

A game coded for SLI with drivers that are coded for SLI = better performance than a single card solution, but again 99.9% of games dont fit this.

In absolute terms, according to the most reliable gaming benchmark, 3DMark11, SLI outperforms a single-gpu configuration consistently, (assuming the single and dual GPUs are the same model). In my experience, the performance boost is over 40% for SLI vs. single GPU. If you have had poor results with SLI, look at game and driver compatability and system heat.

Assuming you have the right video driver, SLI performance is absolutely, positively superior to single-gpu performance for GW2 (depending on the GPUs being compared). The frame rate figures I gave are for heavy wvwvw. Normal frame rates are up around 80-110 fps.

What SLI does provide is much higher minimum frame rates. Max frame rates are rarely the issue. Its minimum frame rates that count. Basically, if you are running SLI, dont listen to the post I quoted above. Get the right driver and enjoy your SLI system. The SLI profile for GW2 in the Nvidia driver was developed by Nvidia in cooperation with ArenaNet. I do need to qualify that SLI performance and stability are heavily driver dependent.

There is a new 306.23 GT 560 M Driver from Nvidia

http://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/48693

I have downloaded, installed and tested it using 3DMark11. My 3D Mark11 results with the new driver

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4388730

NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M video card benchmark result – Intel Core i7-3820QM Processor,Alienware M14xR2 score: P2356 3DMarks

My 3DMark11 results with the 296.1 driver

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4181858

NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M video card benchmark result – Intel Core i7-3820QM Processor,Alienware M14xR2 score: P2332 3DMarks

My 3DMark11 score went up from 2332 to 2356.

Laurie.1698:

I know there must be more I can check for (I hope hehe) because I’m still getting the bluescreen crashing. Its random, all the sudden, loud buzzing noise in my headphones and I’m bluescreened with memory dump and reboot. I looked at the dump file and there were a few indicators that it might have been from my virus program which is Avast, so I disabled before I played and its still happening.

“It isn’t random; it may be difficult to see the pattern/circumstances but some set of conditions are met to cause it. Also, I don’t know why so many people report that they get an error but leave out what that error is: it is your primary lead into diagnosing the issue.”

Sorry. I know its not random, it has to do with the video card. I must say that I have been a server admin for a very long time but on Linux, not windows so I haven’t attempted to use a windows based product for a very long time until I wanted to play GW2 after the long wait.

I thought perhaps someone had noticed a discrepancy in how the NVIDIA card was working with the GW2 program. I should have been more specific in what I was seeking, my apologizes.

In my experience, most blue-screen errors are caused by the GPU, specifically the GPU overheating. Go ahead and download the new driver that I linked above, install it and try it.

Once this is done, grab a usb disk or blank cd, head over to memtest.org and snag the latest copy of the memtest iso, burn it, and then boot from it.

As your system bears all the hallmarks of being a custom build rather than store bought, its worth running memtest to ensure that your electronics retailer of choice didn’t send you some dodgy ram. It doesnt matter if its the latest Ocz Ultramega ram of pwnage, or value ram from the thrift store, occasionally memory sticks have physical errors, and they may only show up when a specific application (like GW2) accesses a dodgy sector on the stick that normally doesnt get touched.

memtest (memtest.org) is a great memory testing tool and invaluable for overclockers.

However, this is not an overclocking guide. I have purposely refrained from giving overclocking tips because I dont think it is appropriate to advise GW2/ArenaNet customers to overclock their system in this forum. There is at least one overclocking test program that can literally fry your cpu and chipset. the purpose of this thread is to make your already running and configured system make GW2 run better, not push the CPU or GPU overclocking envelope.

If you want to overclock, I recommend factory overclocked systems and components. The best are http://www.falcon-nw.com/ and http://www.alienware.com. Before you go insulting Alienware, remember that Dell/Alienware are sponsors and advertisers of GW2. When you insult Alienware and AW users, you are insulting GW2 and ArenaNet.

Brayzen.6287:

I still cannot get comfortable with the idea of using air from a compressor.

I don’t remember anybody mentioning air compressors, only canned air and small vacuum cleaners.

Brayzen.6287:

As far as using a vacum cleaner, my concerns were the risk of static electricity.I am leery of it and take precautions when inside my case such as wearing surgical gloves,

Ever rub a balloon? Surgical gloves = bad idea
Use proper ESD equipment (mat, wrist strap, bags), keep components grounded (if possible) and ground all tools prior to their touching components and don’t introduce new differences of potential (surgical gloves, balloons, cats).

Brayzen.6287:

A plastic nozzle of a vacuum is NOT an insulator against static discharge.In some research I have done on the topic in the past I have learned that the air/dust mixture going through the tip of the nozzle creates static….

And neither are your gloves. You don’t touch equipment with the plastic nozzle.
By your logic, you must never, ever clean your PC, leaving dust to cause thermal issues and, if in a humid environment, can trap moisture and become a conductor.
If it is that much of an issue for you, buy an ESD-certified vacuum.

--
re: memtest86. This should always be run when getting BSODs to avoid barking up the wrong tree if the STOP code doesn’t get you anywhere. VMT (Video Memory Test) is a separate program that tests your GPU RAM.

re: 3Dmark. Benchmarks don’t really reflect real-world performance (ATI proved that, heh) and performance varies from game to game. The only performance that matters is sustained FPS in the game(s) one plays.

re: overclocking. I don’t recommend those designer systems for three chief reasons: cost, knowledge, and performance. For the price, one can build a far better performer or save the money (which would allow more users to have high-performance hardware).

For the knowledge that when you build it yourself, you can troubleshoot it and tweak it optimally; you won’t have practical experience if someone else does it for you. For performance for two reasons: you’ll pick better hardware because overhead isn’t an issue and you’ll tune it to its full capability rather than what’s commonly reliable without adding to tech support requests.

There are plenty of guides (from actual publishers too) and discussions that any reasonable, prudent person can overclock without issue. Personally, I couldn’t sleep at night knowing my components aren’t performing at their maximum capability.

Hey guys how many FPS will i get with this build
Intel Core i7 3770k(3.50GHz)
8GB DDR3 2TB HDD
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 660 Ti
WIndows 7 64-Bit
Got an Asus VS248H HDMI to go with it

Hey guys how many FPS will i get with this build
Intel Core i7 3770k(3.50GHz)
8GB DDR3 2TB HDD
NVIDIA Geforce GTX 660 Ti
WIndows 7 64-Bit
Got an Asus VS248H HDMI to go with it

3DMark11 is a good gaming benchmark. Go to their online result browser and browse systems similar to yours or what you want to build.

http://www.3dmark.com/search

You should be able to find a system that is similar to what you are looking for and see its scores.

re: 3Dmark. Benchmarks don’t really reflect real-world performance (ATI proved that, heh) and performance varies from game to game. The only performance that matters is sustained FPS in the game(s) one plays.

re: overclocking. I don’t recommend those designer systems for three chief reasons: cost, knowledge, and performance. For the price, one can build a far better performer or save the money (which would allow more users to have high-performance hardware).

For the knowledge that when you build it yourself, you can troubleshoot it and tweak it optimally; you won’t have practical experience if someone else does it for you. For performance for two reasons: you’ll pick better hardware because overhead isn’t an issue and you’ll tune it to its full capability rather than what’s commonly reliable without adding to tech support requests.

Building your own and overclocking it is very risky. By definition when you overclock if you do it right, you are pushing your system to its limit of performance, stability and heat tolerance. When you exceed your systems specifications, you risk damaging its components. There is no way to avoid the risk if you build your own and overclock.

In my experience, Alienware and Falcon-Northwest are only slightly more costly than buying high quality components and building it yourself. When you guy a pre-configured, factory overclocked system, you are letting falcon-nw and aw take the risk for you. They can afford to buy components in massive bulk and test them. They run components through a process called binning. They stress-test components and then put them in separate stacks or bins based on how well they dissapate heat and perform. Can you afford to buy components by the thousands, test them all, keep the good ones and throw out or return the bad ones? I am here to play GW2, not spend all my time tweaking my system so that I can get a few more fps out of it. I am happy to let aw do that for me.

I agree that overlocking and building your own system can be fun but it can also be very frustrating and expensive. I found building my own system to be much more expensive than letting someone else do it for me. Building my own was a never ending process of research, stress testing, RMAs and returns for defective components and endless upgrades. I have made only one change to my AW system, I upgraded the video cards from GTX 460s to GTX 560 tis. If something goes wrong with my system, I call alienware and they replace any failed or defective components.

Lets try to limit the advice in this thread to non-invasive, non-destructive system modifications and tweaks. Again the purpose of this thread is to help others tweak their existing system so that it runs GW2 better, not win benchmark contests with liquid-notrogen cooled super systems.

I have thoroughly tested GW2 with the latest Nvidia 306.23 WHQL driver using the following settings

2x GTX 560 ti
1920×1080 resolution
Autodetect Graphics settings (High/Medium)
SLI Enabled
Nvidia 3D Vision Enabled
Nvidia 3D Vision Disabled

I found GW2 performance to be excellent. I had no crashes or visual anomalies. I experienced no 3d lag. I did experience some slight mouse pointer hitching when moving the pointer from ui elements to game elements but less than with previous drivers. GW2s 3D is rated as excellent and that has been my experience with it.

You can get the new nvidia drivers here:

http://www.geforce.com/drivers

I ran the new drivers through 3DMark11 and got the following results

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4398362
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4397850

This is an improvement over the previous driver

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4018632
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3883418

3DMark11 is a gaming benchmark that will provide you with a relative measure of gaming performance. I recommend running 3DMark11 after every driver update.

My 2 cents: DON’T overclock!! You’ll fry ur stuff, void ur warranty, and get negligible performance increases. To whomever keeps getting the blue screens, ur video card is probably dying…..Also, i just keep the side of my PC case OFF and have a little fan i use to blow up on it, keep it cool. Gets dustier ya, but that’s what the compressed air cans are for.

EDIT: The blue screen advice for laurie….sry

And a THANKS to Rolo/Sam and others for sharing their knowledge w/ the community…!! Tom’s h/w site had some great stuff on fps data w/ all the different chips. I7 still market leader, w/ amd’s close behind. I don’t goto the benchmarking sites anymore just cuz I don’t wanna know I need five grand in upgrades!! lol I built my system for around 800 bux off newegg & tiger and it’s smokin!!

Rolo.9248:

Brayzen.6287:

I still cannot get comfortable with the idea of using air from a compressor.

I don’t remember anybody mentioning air compressors, only canned air and small vacuum cleaners.

The guy on page one mentioned an air compressor.

Canned air is fine if you follow the directions on the side. I’ve used the stuff for years without any so called cold/moisture damage. And I didn’t need to swap cans.

Samaul.6073:

Building your own and overclocking it is very risky.

Not if you can read for comprehension and exercise sound judgement.

Samaul.6073:

By definition when you overclock if you do it right, you are pushing your system to its limit of performance, stability and heat tolerance.

Incorrect
- OC isn’t always “pushing” as it is typically only utilising what is already avalable
- OC is about finding performance limits that already exist but aren’t relied upon en masse by the OEM
- My OC components run cooler than stock
- I’m retired military and have the 100% fully-mission-capable mindset; I want neither my or my wife’s hardware to fail during operational use—ever!

Samaul.6073:

When you exceed your systems specifications, you risk damaging its components.

Systems don’t have specs: components do. Do you know your components’ specs? If you did, you would know that all but extreme OC remains within manufacturer-published specifications. Intel-published specs for the i5-2500k are 1.52v and 100C TJmax—most OCs go nowhere near that (mine is <1.4v, energy-saving ON and 66C max under sustained full load with a 27.2% OC).

nVidia specs for the GF110 state 1.1v (1.0v is as-delivered) and also 100C; I’m at 1.05v, 72C max but I’m at 14.2% OC and my card runs GW2 more smoothly than at stock (which I think 1.0v is too low and more who run GW2 are discovering this and I’m beginning to think stock voltages for the 600-series cards is off the mark).

Samaul.6073:

There is no way to avoid the risk if you build your own and overclock.

Yes there is: read for comprehension and sound judgement; risk comes from doing foolish things and that alone

Samaul.6073:

In my experience, Alienware and Falcon-Northwest are only slightly more costly than buying high quality components and building it yourself.

No, it isn’t: I paid literally half for mine and it’s a better machine. I can also troubleshoot and fix it more effectively because I built it.

I even sell said better machines for less than retail and still make a few bucks for myself (and it’s also how I get to play with hardware without paying for it).

Samaul.6073:

When you guy a pre-configured, factory overclocked system, you are letting falcon-nw and aw take the risk for you.

You think they are taking risks with hardware?

Samaul.6073:

They can afford to buy components in massive bulk and test them. They run components through a process called binning. They stress-test components and then put them in separate stacks or bins based on how well they dissapate heat and perform. Can you afford to buy components by the thousands, test them all, keep the good ones and throw out or return the bad ones?

This was true many, many years ago (when you bought a CPU based on the plant where it was fabricated—Malaysian FTW) but not now. Every 2500K I’ve built runs at 4.2GHz at stock voltages with an aftermarket air cooler and I pound the crap out of hardware—keeping everything at 100% utilisation overnight—before I call it ‘good’, which is far shorter than it used to be with 2-3-4-86s: 72-hour burn-in. The point is that the fabrication process has improved exponentially.

Samaul.6073:

I am here to play GW2, not spend all my time tweaking my system so that I can get a few more fps out of it.

I would say you spent more time arguing against DIY OC than I did OC my system. OK maybe not but I spent a week building/tweaking an i5 platform I could use for a few years and to sell. I’ve sold enough in a few months (I only do this as a hobby and for people I know, not a business) that it paid for my and my wife’s PCs and nobody is complaining that their computers are crashing, underperfoming, or locking up—an ounce of prevention.

Samaul.6073:

I am happy to let aw do that for me.

There is nothing wrong with that. Also, there is nothing wrong with DIY either and, frankly, I do a better job than AW or FNW as mine hit the trifecta: faster, better, cheaper.

Samaul.6073:

I agree that overlocking and building your own system can be fun but it can also be very frustrating and expensive.

I’ve already addressed that it isn’t more expensive and projecting your frustration onto everyone else isn’t ‘advice’. Personally, I don’t find it frustrating at all—it can be a smidge tedious but that’s what books, magazines, another computer are for (to pass the time waiting for test results that most probably rush and frustrate themselves).

Samaul.6073:

Building my own was a never ending process of
…RMAs and returns for defective components and endless upgrades.

Don’t buy cheap crap.
Umm….and according to you, your AW is no different:

I have made only one change to my AW system, I upgraded the video cards from GTX 460s to GTX 560 tis. If something goes wrong with my system, I call alienware and they replace any failed or defective components.

Soooo…you’ve upgraded two video cards and have to RMA components (after AW will have you test them because nobody will pay to exchange parts without bona fide diagnostics identifying they are faulty).
I’ve not upgraded this machine yet and don’t intend to anytime soon as there really isn’t anywhere to go. After the 600s prove themselves, I may stick a 680 in the wife’s and move her 580 with mine (same lot so hardware and firmware revisions match)—or I’ll wait until the 700s since even numbered models seem to be the ones to avoid. (_4_60s? Really? The “endless” research you take exception to would have saved you the upgrade since it would have revealed 400s were nVidia’s haphazard rush to get something to the market before they were really finished with development on what you have now!)

Samaul.6073:

Lets try to limit the advice in this thread to non-invasive, non-destructive system modifications and tweaks.

Nobody has suggested such. Your not able/wanting to DIY doesn’t mean its dangerous.

Samaul.6073:

Again the purpose of this thread is to help others tweak their existing system so that it runs GW2 better, not win benchmark contests with liquid-notrogen cooled super systems.

Nobody suggested that either—and you are the one who suggested benchmarks!
To optimally tweak a system one has to find the optimal clocks and voltages one’s components can reliably run at full load.

just for refor reference, i recommended memtest for its ability to test ram for physical faults, nt for use in overclocking a system, precisely because its not the kind of test thats going to fry your cpu but will still generate data that can actually be of use (particularly because faulty physical memory has caused blue screens as described in a number of games ive supported)
You clearly know a little about supporting a pc, but please do me the service of both assuming you are not the only person who does, but also reading what I actually wrote and noticing the fact that clocking as never mentioned with regards to troubleshooting his issue. It’s
always dishearting to find someone trying to prov
de support whilst making crass assumptions and ignoring what they are told, particuarly on forums like this where they’d very likely be the same people to complain that the official support techs are overly reliant on scripts and email templates.

Moot point regardless, given his distinct lack of a response since, I suspect the issue has already been resolved or they’ve given up on it.

Rolo.9248:

Nobody suggested that either—and you are the one who suggested benchmarks!
To optimally tweak a system one has to find the optimal clocks and voltages one’s components can reliably run at full load.

Again, this is not an overclocking forum and this is not an overclocking thread. There are plenty of those out there. There is a good reason that I am not sharing my extensive overclocking knowledge here. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. There is no way to start the overclocking process without taking significant risk. Again, there is one cpu overclocking test program that can literally fry a cpu in a matter of minutes or seconds. I am not going to share that knowledge here no matter how much you insult me or impugn my knowledge of high end PCs and overclocking.

WARNING:

If you overclock your components, you can seriously damage them or cause them to permanently fail. Changing voltages, clock multipliers and memory parameters can result in extreme heat and instability in your components. Do so at your own risk.

Cytheria.2867:

just for refor reference, i recommended memtest for its ability to test ram for physical faults, nt for use in overclocking a system, precisely because its not the kind of test thats going to fry your cpu but will still generate data that can actually be of use (particularly because faulty physical memory has caused blue screens as described in a number of games ive supported)
You clearly know a little about supporting a pc, but please do me the service of both assuming you are not the only person who does, but also reading what I actually wrote and noticing the fact that clocking as never mentioned with regards to troubleshooting his issue. It’s
always dishearting to find someone trying to prov
de support whilst making crass assumptions and ignoring what they are told, particuarly on forums like this where they’d very likely be the same people to complain that the official support techs are overly reliant on scripts and email templates.

Moot point regardless, given his distinct lack of a response since, I suspect the issue has already been resolved or they’ve given up on it.

This is not a PC support thread. I am not going to debate PC support with you. The purpose of this thread is to suggest ways to improve GW2 performance on high end PCs without getting your GPU or CPU so hot you can fry an egg on it.

To suggest that someone who has a PC with a warranty on it seek technical support from the vendor they got it from is very good advice. I suggest everyone who is in that situation who reads this follow that advice.

FatFuzzy.2659:

My 2 cents: DON’T overclock!! You’ll fry ur stuff, void ur warranty, and get negligible performance increases. To whomever keeps getting the blue screens, ur video card is probably dying…..Also, i just keep the side of my PC case OFF and have a little fan i use to blow up on it, keep it cool. Gets dustier ya, but that’s what the compressed air cans are for.

EDIT: The blue screen advice for laurie….sry

And a THANKS to Rolo/Sam and others for sharing their knowledge w/ the community…!! Tom’s h/w site had some great stuff on fps data w/ all the different chips. I7 still market leader, w/ amd’s close behind. I don’t goto the benchmarking sites anymore just cuz I don’t wanna know I need five grand in upgrades!! lol I built my system for around 800 bux off newegg & tiger and it’s smokin!!

Good advice. I do think that factory overclocking can be effective and safe. It has been for me. I very much enjoyed overclocking my homebuilt system but I ended up spending more time tweaking my system than gaming. The purpose of this thread is to help ppl play GW2 better, not spend all their time swapping components, running benchmarks and burn testers.

I will suggest two free, non-destructive programs that can shed light on what is going on with your system. They are cpu-z

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

and gpu-z

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

These utilities just provide information. I will refrain from suggesting programs that can modify clock rates, clock multipliers, voltages etc.

Samuel, you’ve named your topic “How to get the most out of your high end PC” Simply put overclocking makes you do that. It’s perfectly safe IF you inform yourself on this topic. I think that Rolo’s issue is that you advice people to not overclock based on false/outdated info. While I can perfectly see that you do not want to advice people to overclock and I would definitely agree with you to not advice it. It’s a whole other matter to advice people to not do it at all.

Its a great list of advice but I would add one to it…and its one tip that I continually see overlooked for some reason even though it should be on every single gamers list for their system.

A small fan, round about 3 inches in size facing the front of your systems intake can help keep the temp of your system down a tremendous amount. Larger fans does NOT make a difference, in fact is worse. A very small fan, right outside the case blowing inward works far better than a case fan, just inside the case does.

Samuel, you’ve named your topic “How to get the most out of your high end PC” Simply put overclocking makes you do that. It’s perfectly safe IF you inform yourself on this topic. I think that Rolo’s issue is that you advice people to not overclock based on false/outdated info. While I can perfectly see that you do not want to advice people to overclock and I would definitely agree with you to not advice it. It’s a whole other matter to advice people to not do it at all.

Some people need to get a grip on reality when it comes to talking about overclocking in the official GW2 forums. Lets say that we turn this into a massive overclocking thread. Then someone fries one or more components in their high end PC. Who are they going to blame? You guessed it, ArenaNet.

Lets try to be responsible. Leave the overclocking discussion to the overclocking enthusiast sites.

wolonggong.3469:

Its a great list of advice but I would add one to it…and its one tip that I continually see overlooked for some reason even though it should be on every single gamers list for their system.

A small fan, round about 3 inches in size facing the front of your systems intake can help keep the temp of your system down a tremendous amount. Larger fans does NOT make a difference, in fact is worse. A very small fan, right outside the case blowing inward works far better than a case fan, just inside the case does.

I agree, a well placed fan can work wonders for keeping your PC cooler.

Samaul.6073:

Samuel, you’ve named your topic “How to get the most out of your high end PC” Simply put overclocking makes you do that. It’s perfectly safe IF you inform yourself on this topic. I think that Rolo’s issue is that you advice people to not overclock based on false/outdated info. While I can perfectly see that you do not want to advice people to overclock and I would definitely agree with you to not advice it. It’s a whole other matter to advice people to not do it at all.

Some people need to get a grip on reality when it comes to talking about overclocking in the official GW2 forums. Lets say that we turn this into a massive overclocking thread. Then someone fries one or more components in their high end PC. Who are they going to blame? You guessed it, ArenaNet.

Lets try to be responsible. Leave the overclocking discussion to the overclocking enthusiast sites.

I don’t think you’ve really read my post. I clearly stated to not be in favor of advising to overclock, I opposed your statement of advising against it.

wolonggong.3469:

Its a great list of advice but I would add one to it…and its one tip that I continually see overlooked for some reason even though it should be on every single gamers list for their system.

A small fan, round about 3 inches in size facing the front of your systems intake can help keep the temp of your system down a tremendous amount. Larger fans does NOT make a difference, in fact is worse. A very small fan, right outside the case blowing inward works far better than a case fan, just inside the case does.

Eh what? Bigger fans being worse, are you kiddin me? Bigger fan means more airflow, or letting it run much slower for the same airflow but while being much more silent, or a combination of both. Yes a fan outside your case could help in addition to case fans and possible, depending on a situation actually be more useful than an additional front intake fan, yet it’s certainly no replacement and I personally wouldn’t want it for the noise. Nor is it as much a must as you seem to think it is.

Well these are helpful tips for those who just want to play and don’t delve into the intricacies of owning a PC. It’s obvious heat and airflow is an issue and other technical aspects but I kind of laughed at the “Remove all unecessary software, browser plugins, desktop enhancements etc. None of them will help GW2 run faster and are likely to slow it down” and the use of Msconfig and " do not overclock your video card". Msconfig isn’t something everyone should be messing with and if a program has a function to disable at start up then that should be used first before un-checking start up items. Removing plugins and such from your browser won’t typically do anything for the game, except if the TP menu is badly corrupted due to the browser based functionality. You can run Firefox with a bazzilion addons and not affect the game as well as other software. You don’t get speed increase, you get memory freed up to run the game better, so it feels faster when in fact it’s running “normal”. As far as the ovverclock of the card, if your running a high end PC, chances are you will overclock the GPU a little as long as you overclock in mild increments. Alienware are not the only people to “hint” that they are the only one who can overclock a PC correctly.

Now my PC is tweaked to only have AVG, Razer mouse drivers and sound drivers loaded at start up, but truthfully this game is not as demanding as Skyrim, or even Oblivion for that matter. My GPU never gets above 62 celsius at 60% fan speed and the CPU gets to 45c.

You could also let people know to disable services that aren’t needed if they are memory starved(services.msc). Frankly Nvidia is always set to Disabled after initial setup and profile adjustments to games.

@ wolonggong

Actually a larger fan has lower rpm’s, less noise and more cfm. I have a 120mm fan zip tied right behind the HDD cage helping air come in from the front fan over the GPU pcb board, over the NF200 and a little fed to the CPU cooler and it’s does wonders to push more air over the board and out the back.

PC Enthusiats? You say with caps no overclocking. Thats the idea of it all. if u want a better computer overclock. it. i got a i7 3770k on 4.8Ghz, and and 40 celsius when playing GW2. Plus i have offcourse overcloked my SLI GFX. It’s common sence to overclock your GFX. Overcloking CPU and GFX will tripple the performance, of what your guide gives.

Samaul.6073:

….Again, there is one cpu overclocking test program that can literally fry a cpu in a matter of minutes or seconds. I am not going to share that knowledge here no matter how much you insult me or impugn my knowledge of high end PCs and overclocking.

Overclocking programs don’t fry cpus, extreme voltage combined with improperly cooling processors do. Any heavy load put on an extremely overclocked (and not properly cooled) system can cause it to fail very quickly, but were talking in the range of Dice/LN here. Also most systems will blue screen and shut down either due to software instability or the processors own temp sensors when it reaches TjMax. To insta-fry a CPU you would have to jack the voltage up to some insane levels, only when those conditions are met would you possibly fry a cpu, and then its just as likely the that Vrm’s (things that regulate voltage to the CPU) on the motherboard blow first killing the cpu, but this points back to poor motherboard selection, not the fact that the actual cpu stress test did anything. Oh and I’ll go ahead and let the Mystic knowledge out of the bag, the programs he is talking about are called Prime 95, OCCT, and IBT (intel burn test) or LinX. The programs themselves as I already stated are harmless, they just put a 100% load on the processor. The main factor to consider, and one they are commonly used for, is testing to make sure your system cooling is up to par. The only remote chance of these programs frying a processor (and then its not really the program doing the frying) is if the user changed voltages in the Bios to insane levels, and then more than likely the processor would shut itself down first or the system would bluescreen before any damage was done. Most of these so called “Overclocking Tests” are just tests created by the scientific community to find various things such as unknown prime numbers, cures for diseases, or traces of extraterrestrial life (in the case of many Folding at home projects and SETI projects). Due to their nature of running the processor at near 100% capacity these programs have been adopted as stress tests by overclocking enthusiasts, but are in no way harmful when the system they are run on are operating under normal conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJMax#Maximum_junction_temperature

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_95

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folding_at_home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI@home

Knowledge is in no way harmful, it is how that knowledge is used that determines whether the outcome is good or bad.

Samaul.6073:

Some people need to get a grip on reality when it comes to talking about overclocking in the official GW2 forums. Lets say that we turn this into a massive overclocking thread. Then someone fries one or more components in their high end PC. Who are they going to blame? You guessed it, ArenaNet.

Lets try to be responsible. Leave the overclocking discussion to the overclocking enthusiast sites.

Oh and I just lol’ed at this one, are you serious, its like saying omg were talking about NASCAR on a website someone’s gonna sue them if some idiot goes out and runs 130 mph and kills himself. I’m pretty sure there are clauses in the terms and conditions you agreed to when joining these forums that stipulate the opinions and posts that members post here are their own and no way supported by ArenaNet. I’m not sure whether to commend all the small tidbits of useful information I’ve seen the OP post, or question the inherent anti-overclocking and anti-“build your own system” bias I’ve read over the last few pages . Both building your own system and buying pre-built are viable solutions, however it can be argued that building your own is significantly cheaper if you have the know how to build and maintain it.

Chavo.3807:

Overclocking programs don’t fry cpus, extreme voltage combined with improperly cooling processors do.

The programs themselves as I already stated are harmless, they just put a 100% load on the processor.

IBT is harmless? “they just put a 100% load on the processor”?

I dont think you have any clue what you are talking about when you say things like that. Tell me, what consitutes a 100% load on your CPU? How is that defined? There is one key configuration stat that determines the load on your cpu, all other factors being equal. Do you know what that is?

These statements are categorically false and inaccurate. Statements like this one lead me to believe that you may not be the overclocking expert that you claim to be.

Yes, there are cpu burn test programs used by overclockers that can fry your cpu. I can think of one in particular that can do it at cpu settings that might not be considered extreme. It is in fact the best cpu setting burn test program. If your cpu can survive this burn tester at certain settings then it could be considered stable at those settings. However, again, the risk of damaging your cpu or other components is very high with that burn test program and others like it. Use it at your own risk.

The fact is that with Intel’s Turbo Boost, many high end CPUs are self-overclocking. For example, the i7 3820QM processor in my M14x that I am on right now is capable of increasing its normal clock speed of 2.7 GHz to 3.7 GHz under load conditions.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64889/Intel-Core-i7-3820QM-Processor-(8M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz)?wapkw=3820qm

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/benchmarks/laptop/3rd-gen-core-i7-3820qm-mobile.html

That processor, a mobile processor can safely overlcok itself a full 1GHz!

The i7 3770 desktop processor can overclock itself to 3.9 GHz and it has an unlocked multiplier allowing even higher turbo boost speeds

http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

Just 2 or 3 years ago, overclocking enthusiasts would be happy to get those clock speeds out of their systems. So there really is no debate about overclocking. Your high intel PC with Turbo Boost 2.0

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost-technology-video.html?wapkw=turbo+boost+2.0

can safely overclock itself. If you want to push the envelope further, you can do that but it can be risky. I recommend letting a PC builder like Alienware or Falcon Northwest do it for you. They take all the risk in burning-in your systems overclock and warranty the result.

You do not need to overclock your system to get good performance out of GW2. Again, most of the new i7 processors overclock themselves. You can improve your GW2 performance by following the responsible suggestions I and others have given you that do not involve great risk to your system and the purchase of expensive components.

Zalastra.6290:

Samaul.6073:

Samuel, you’ve named your topic “How to get the most out of your high end PC” Simply put overclocking makes you do that. It’s perfectly safe IF you inform yourself on this topic. I think that Rolo’s issue is that you advice people to not overclock based on false/outdated info. While I can perfectly see that you do not want to advice people to overclock and I would definitely agree with you to not advice it. It’s a whole other matter to advice people to not do it at all.

Some people need to get a grip on reality when it comes to talking about overclocking in the official GW2 forums. Lets say that we turn this into a massive overclocking thread. Then someone fries one or more components in their high end PC. Who are they going to blame? You guessed it, ArenaNet.

Lets try to be responsible. Leave the overclocking discussion to the overclocking enthusiast sites.

I don’t think you’ve really read my post. I clearly stated to not be in favor of advising to overclock, I opposed your statement of advising against it.

wolonggong.3469:

Its a great list of advice but I would add one to it…and its one tip that I continually see overlooked for some reason even though it should be on every single gamers list for their system.

A small fan, round about 3 inches in size facing the front of your systems intake can help keep the temp of your system down a tremendous amount. Larger fans does NOT make a difference, in fact is worse. A very small fan, right outside the case blowing inward works far better than a case fan, just inside the case does.

Eh what? Bigger fans being worse, are you kiddin me? Bigger fan means more airflow, or letting it run much slower for the same airflow but while being much more silent, or a combination of both. Yes a fan outside your case could help in addition to case fans and possible, depending on a situation actually be more useful than an additional front intake fan, yet it’s certainly no replacement and I personally wouldn’t want it for the noise. Nor is it as much a must as you seem to think it is.

Yes, I read your post and I think we agree.

The determining factor in fan size is how big is the slot you have to put it in. Put the biggest fan that can fit in that slot.

Samaul.6073:

Chavo.3807:

Overclocking programs don’t fry cpus, extreme voltage combined with improperly cooling processors do.

The programs themselves as I already stated are harmless, they just put a 100% load on the processor.

IBT is harmless? “they just put a 100% load on the processor”?

I dont think you have any clue what you are talking about when you say things like that. Tell me, what consitutes a 100% load on your CPU? How is that defined? There is one key configuration stat that determines the load on your cpu, all other factors being equal. Do you know what that is?

Ever hear of Windows Task Manager? It shows how many threads are running and the general usage? When It’s pegged at 100% and all cores are maxed i’d call that a full load? And about the last part of that previous statement about what constitutes a full load….its not a config stat you mess around with in the Bios, its actually running software that pushes the CPU to 100% utilization..hence the full load as its commonly called in CPU Tweaking Circles.

Samaul.6073:

These statements are categorically false and inaccurate. Statements like this one lead me to believe that you may not be the overclocking expert that you claim to be.

Who said anything about being an expert at overclocking, If you had read what I wrote before you would have noticed that almost all of the commonly used stress test programs were actually programs made to either study or test some type of scientific/mathematical problem and have been ran harmlessly on millions of computers around the world. Don’t take what I say about these programs and twist it around as If i said Overclocking wouldn’t fry a processor, in the contrary certain conditions in overclocking will kill a processor very quickly and I already pointed that out. But running these types of programs on a stock system (or one like yours) is an invaluable tool to get a feel for how well your case cooling is, check for memory errors (in the case of prime 95 blend and Memtest x86+) or other stability. I’m sure if you called Alienware or Falcon Northwest they would agree and probably tell you that they use on of these programs or a variation of them to test their systems as part of their QA process.

Samaul.6073:

Yes, there are cpu burn test programs used by overclockers that can fry your cpu. I can think of one in particular that can do it at cpu settings that might not be considered extreme. It is in fact the best cpu setting burn test program. If your cpu can survive this burn tester at certain settings then it could be considered stable at those settings. However, again, the risk of damaging your cpu or other components is very high with that burn test program and others like it. Use it at your own risk.

NO NO NO that is just smoke and mirrors aimed at scaring people out of touching their own systems……programs don’t burn up any processor that has the Proper Heatsink/TIM application for the amount of voltage it is recieving, and as long as voltages are kept within safe limits….yeah sure you could take the heatsink off and jack the voltage up to 1.6v while heating the inside of your case with a kerosene forced air heater, but then it burnt up because you were purposely setting up conditions for it to fail…again the program is not to blame, the horrible conditions/abuse you gave the processor are. Again in case you missed it, software doesn’t destroy processors…insane voltage and improper cooling do.

Samaul.6073:

The fact is that with Intel’s Turbo Boost, many high end CPUs are self-overclocking. For example, the i7 3820QM processor in my M14x that I am on right now is capable of increasing its normal clock speed of 2.7 GHz to 3.7 GHz under load conditions.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64889/Intel-Core-i7-3820QM-Processor-(8M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz)?wapkw=3820qm

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/benchmarks/laptop/3rd-gen-core-i7-3820qm-mobile.html

That processor, a mobile processor can safely overlcok itself a full 1GHz!

The i7 3770 desktop processor can overclock itself to 3.9 GHz and it has an unlocked multiplier allowing even higher turbo boost speeds

http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

Just 2 or 3 years ago, overclocking enthusiasts would be happy to get those clock speeds out of their systems. So there really is no debate about overclocking. Your high intel PC with Turbo Boost 2.0

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost-technology-video.html?wapkw=turbo+boost+2.0

can safely overclock itself. If you want to push the envelope further, you can do that but it can be risky. I recommend letting a PC builder like Alienware or Falcon Northwest do it for you. They take all the risk in burning-in your systems overclock and warranty the result.

There is a big difference in a processor shutting down cores to stay withing thermal limits (note the top speeds in turbo boost are always with only 1 core active..dont know about you but we are in the multi-core era last time I looked) and one that is overclocked to have all 4 cores running at a certain speed (and stable having passed all those dreaded CPU killing programs)…Next time you want to link a bunch of Intel Marketing Data read it yourself before commenting on it please. Your comparing apples and oranges, turbo boost and overclocking via bios by altering your v-core, multipliers, ram voltage and timings, memory dividers, etc are totally different creatures.

Samaul.6073:

You do not need to overclock your system to get good performance out of GW2. Again, most of the new i7 processors overclock themselves. You can improve your GW2 performance by following the responsible suggestions I and others have given you that do not involve great risk to your system and the purchase of expensive components.

Thats only partially correct, you don’t necessarily need to overclock to play GW2, but doing so is not irresponsible and does not necessarily involve the purchase of expensive components. Note you pointed out purchase of expensive components and Alienware is probably the most expensive/worst bang for your buck way to go about getting a gaming computer unless its for a laptop only. On the contrary many people overclock as a means of taking a $200 dollar processor and making it match the performance of a $1000+ one. Ever wonder why Intel and AMD provide unlocked multipliers on their processors (and no its not to slow them down they already have Cool and Quiet (AMD) & Speedstep (Intel) which dynamically changes speeds based on load. Look at the entire industry, many motherboards are marketed as overclocker friendly with increased power phases on the VRM section, a more open bios, dual bio’s made as a backup in case on gets corrupted, etc. This whole argument I’ve had going on isn’t about whether overclocking or building your own computer will add to your GW2 experience, its about whether its as “Irresponsible” and “dangerous” as you would have everyone believe.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html

But the issue isn’t do you need to overclock to play GW2, that all depends. If you are using a Core 2 processor or possibly first generation I7/I5/I3 or Bulldozer/Phenom II,Thuban, you will probably see a difference in overclocking somewhat. With Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge not so much since they are already extremely fast to begin with. TBH I don’t overclock, I used to, but my processor is fast enough at stock. Did I quit because I think somehow my processor is going to blow up? No, sure there is a such thing as electron mitigation that will slowly kill a processor over time or contribute to its death if you raise voltages too close or past what Intel or AMD stipulates in their whitesheets, but inta-killing a processor on reasonable voltages is almost unheard of unless the processor was defective to begin with. Both my computer and my sons computer (which is a AMD Phenom Based machine I passed down to him a year and a half ago) have been overclocked for periods of more than a year and a half before being returned to stock and both are running fine day in and day out no bluescreens, nothing out of the ordinary.

I drive a liquid-cooled Alienware…

Stopped reading there.

But seriously, decent post, if pretty basic stuff. Will be useful to those who don’t know that much about PCs.

Personally haven’t noticed much issue with heat and this game. CPU cores never rise above 30 (with a fairly decent heatsink/fan) and GPUs never above 60. Got two intake and two exhaust fans, nothing special. Running at 100fps almost constantly with max settings (AA off).

I just recently built a new computer and it has been running the game great. Though I’m really not sure what to do about the FPS limiter option. I’ve had it set to unlimited and have no problems but was wondering if I should have it set at 60.

My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/flwB

Sokelial.1428:

I just recently built a new computer and it has been running the game great. Though I’m really not sure what to do about the FPS limiter option. I’ve had it set to unlimited and have no problems but was wondering if I should have it set at 60.

My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/flwB

I have heard mixed reviews on this issue. I do not use the FPS limiter but some do.

Opinions?

Chavo.3807:

There is a big difference in a processor shutting down cores to stay withing thermal limits (note the top speeds in turbo boost are always with only 1 core active..dont know about you but we are in the multi-core era last time I looked) and one that is overclocked to have all 4 cores running at a certain speed (and stable having passed all those dreaded CPU killing programs)…Next time you want to link a bunch of Intel Marketing Data read it yourself before commenting on it please. Your comparing apples and oranges, turbo boost and overclocking via bios by altering your v-core, multipliers, ram voltage and timings, memory dividers, etc are totally different creatures.

Thats only partially correct, you don’t necessarily need to overclock to play GW2, but doing so is not irresponsible and does not necessarily involve the purchase of expensive components. Note you pointed out purchase of expensive components and Alienware is probably the most expensive/worst bang for your buck way to go about getting a gaming computer unless its for a laptop only. On the contrary many people overclock as a means of taking a $200 dollar processor and making it match the performance of a $1000+ one. Ever wonder why Intel and AMD provide unlocked multipliers on their processors (and no its not to slow them down they already have Cool and Quiet (AMD) & Speedstep (Intel) which dynamically changes speeds based on load. Look at the entire industry, many motherboards are marketed as overclocker friendly with increased power phases on the VRM section, a more open bios, dual bio’s made as a backup in case on gets corrupted, etc. This whole argument I’ve had going on isn’t about whether overclocking or building your own computer will add to your GW2 experience, its about whether its as “Irresponsible” and “dangerous” as you would have everyone believe.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html

But the issue isn’t do you need to overclock to play GW2, that all depends. If you are using a Core 2 processor or possibly first generation I7/I5/I3 or Bulldozer/Phenom II,Thuban, you will probably see a difference in overclocking somewhat. With Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge not so much since they are already extremely fast to begin with. TBH I don’t overclock, I used to, but my processor is fast enough at stock. Did I quit because I think somehow my processor is going to blow up? No, sure there is a such thing as electron mitigation that will slowly kill a processor over time or contribute to its death if you raise voltages too close or past what Intel or AMD stipulates in their whitesheets, but inta-killing a processor on reasonable voltages is almost unheard of unless the processor was defective to begin with. Both my computer and my sons computer (which is a AMD Phenom Based machine I passed down to him a year and a half ago) have been overclocked for periods of more than a year and a half before being returned to stock and both are running fine day in and day out no bluescreens, nothing out of the ordinary.

Ok so TurboBoost is not self-overclocking? Ok then exactly what is it? You think that they i7 doesnt change all sorts of CPU parameters when it overclocks itself? Yes, TurboBoost most definitely is overclocking.

No, Alienware is not the most expensive pre-built gaming PC anymore nor is it the worst bang for the buck. In fact the Alienware X51 Desktop starts at $699.

http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-x51/pd.aspx

Please stop spouting false myths about Alienware. In fact I priced other manufacturers systems and a bulid-it-myself system purchasing components from newegg.com before purchasing my Aurora R3. Hate to burst your Alienware-hating bubbles but the Alienware was definitely not the most expensive. The Aurora R3 was only a few hundred dollars more than buying the components separately from newegg.com. The difference between build it myself and Alienware was about the same as the Alienware with the warranty. Alienwares prices have come down a lot since they were purchased by Dell.

What it comes down to with build it yourself are the answers to the following questions:

1. Do I have the time to spend researching components for my home-built system?
2. Do I have the patience to wait while I am waiting for an RMA replacement component to come back after being replaced?
3. Do I have the spare funds to pay for two of the same components because most RMAs require a credit card number to cover the cost of the replacement part which is then refunded when the broken part is recieved?
4. Can I actually build the system without damaging the components in the process (liquid cooling is a prime example of this)?
5. Do I have the patience to browse overclocking forums, study product spec sheets, find the right burn-test programs, configure and thoroughly test every single component as each one is installed?
6. Do I have the patience to reformat my hard drive and reinstall windows, download and tweaking drivers, games and other software over and over again until I get a good, fast, stable windows configuration?
7. Do I have the patience and money to repeat steps 1-6 over and over again until I finally get my system tweaked and optimized just right?

If the answers are yes to all of those questions, you are an overclocking enthusiast and you should definitely build and overclock your own system. If they answer is no, then let someone like http://www.alienware.com or http://www.falcon-nw.com do it for you.

Where do you get information on which components are the best fo ryour new home-built gaming rig?

http://www.anandtech.com

is a good place to start.

Where should you buy the components for your home-built system?

http://www.newegg.com

is a good place to start.

Just in case you are thinking of overclocking, let me give you an idea of what waits for you if you do it right. First, go to

http://memtest.org/

and create a memtest boot CD. Now build your system to the point where you have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, motherboard, power supply, cpu and one video card installed (you can add a hard drive but it is not essential. Ok now add a single stick of memory and boot from your memtest CD. Allow memtest to test each stick of memory you purchased individually by swapping each one of them one at a time.

Ok now you are ready to add the rest of your components but you may want to hold off on the second, third etc video cards and more than one stick of memory because of one simple fact. The more memory your system has, the hotter your CPU will get when you burn test it. So now you get to start burn testing with one stick of memory, then two, then four etc. The more you memory you add, the hotter your cpu will get. Oh, and did I forget to mention that you need to do this every time you change your CPUs bios settings?

Someone brought up Intel Burn Test (IBT). IBT is imho the best cpu burn testing program, yes there are others but IBT is the best. IBT allows you to test your cpu at different levels, depending on how much memory you want to test. What it does is assume a certain level of memory usage and run its tests accordingly. With one stick of memory at 100% usage your cpu should be ok. However, if you start out testing 8 GB or even 16 GB of 1600 MHz+ memory at 100% usage, you will find that your cpu gets really hot, really fast. Now you are in the danger zone and if you are not careful you will cook your CPU, memory, controller, chipset etc.

You cannot and should not assume that you can just substitute the overclock parameters from a similarly configured system into yours and assume they will work without testing. Even small variations in hardware configuration can cause widely varying results.

Now, what is a good resource for hardware and support for overclocking enthusiasts?

Look no further than

http://www.evga.com/default.asp

eVGA has in my opinion the best overclocking hardware, sofware and support on the market. Their forums have some of the top overclocking experts around. Yes, there are other component manufacturers and overclocking sites but imho, eVGA is the best.

Good luck with your overclocked system!

May you not turn it into a molten pile of silicon and lead.