Guild Wars 2

This class is very fun, and yes stands a chance against every other class if played correctly. grenades obliterate underwater and are pretty good at PvE above water as well. Also Mortars are just the best elite skill for WvW by far =] . But..

Can somebody riddle me this?

Engineers
-Are gun oriented class, with the least range of any class in the game, start at 1000 cap at 1200
-Turrets do absolutely nothing except for the net turret, which gets 1 shot out then dies.
-They do SIGNIFICANTLY less damage than any other class unless they use their grenades which still do not do as much damage as other classes besides the toolkit version of it
-Grenade build is obligatory because with how the traits and skills are set up its the only viable class for engineer, I personally play a rifle specific engineer but deep down inside I know grenades would be 35% better.
-Its upsetting when you are playing as a lvl80 Engineer and you just see any other class walk up right next to you, under 80, and dominate an enemy in under 15 to 20 seconds which enemy would have taken you a full minute of kiting and bs to kill.
-The rifle skills are awesome, I love them, but don’t you think its odd how most of them are close range?
-If the rifle skills are gonna be shotgun skills, give them a shotgun kinda damage, or give engineers less squishiness
-In WvW I cannot handle any more than 1 player with my engineer, orbs of power or not, (I am part of ruin so we always have all 3) whereas literally any other class can do a 1v2 and if you have orbs 1v3-4

ANET did engineers perfectly, they are alot of fun, very odd, and just an overall awesome class. In my opinion everything about every class is balanced, except … Engi damage/range/turrets. This is by far not a complain thread, I just want opinions. I actually quit playing my engineer because he is level 80 and I thought “Do I want to do endgame on a character that will be 1/3rd the power of another?” Then I made a couple new characters which are all 28+ now . Anyways, reply. Everybody I talk to online and irl agree with everything I have said but I wanna hear the trolls and mapchat debaters make fun of me opinions!

I have to admit I am a LOT biased here, since from the first announcement that engineer was going to be in the game, I jumped on that bandwagon. I also was not let down when I got to play one on the three beta weekends and the various 1-4 hour stress tests.

Because engi does take some time to master (while easy to pick up), it is not a class I recommend for everyone. We are definitely limited by our regular weapon selections, but the utility kits are our stock in trade, and learning how to mix and match is what gives us the best chance at viability.

I HAVE seen engineers dominate in WvW, but like all other classes, they have moments where the profession shines, and moments they were not cut out to be in.

One thing I will say about our viability, since we are highly dependent on gear, definitely make sure your gear is top notch at all times. Even in PvE I have noticed it does make a difference. It’s all part of the strategy that is playing the engineer.

Do I wish some of our toolkits had auto-attack on by default? Sure…

Do I wish we had more of a melee option than the actual tool kit utility (bombs to me do not count as melee since you can drop and run)? Sure. I mentioned in feedback during the beta that we should be able to use a hammer I think. (Makes sense right, since we can build with one)

I too would love to see rifle have more range, and I suspect when ANet starts doing profession tweaks, that might actually get looked at for some of the skills, but I can also trait my turrets to have greater range, then set them away from the action.

I think one of our best “builds”, would be a condition based one with either pistols and/or elixir gun/flamethrower/grenades. I can usually take down same level or slightly higher enemies pretty quickly with that kind of set up. You have to admit, grenades and flamethrowers are boss when it comes to aoe/cone attacks.

Personally I do not feel sub-par, and am proud to have my main be my engineer.

There’s my 2 copper anyway… Carry on.

Well Wes, I agree with you on a lot of the points you raise in your post. Specifically:

• Shorter range that what it should be for rifles
• 3/5 Rifle skills are close range which needs a change.
• Turrets are inherently too weak, however I don’t think they do nothing. Thumper, Flame and Rocket turrets all perform well.

I would like to see ANet reassess the position engineers are currently in, but I doubt you can expect to see anything to that effect this side of 2 months.

However you go on to say that Grenade/Rifle spec is obligatory. I wholeheartedly disagree. The beauty of the engineer is that you have Grenade kit, Bomb kit, Flame-thrower kit and Tool kit AND can make each and everyone of them work effectively.

I am having a blast with engineer as well, but I agree with the gripe about rifles. It would be nice to have a fully ranged style other than grenades. I really enjoy the rifle play now, but it is closer to a shotgun style of play.

I will say this for the minute long kills and what not: I had the same issue leveling mainly using rifle, until around 40 I switched to bombs based on a tip on some forums, and it’s crazy how much I can pull and kill quickly without taking much damage. I’m not saying the rifle shouldn’t be more viable (Honestly I think they should keep the rifle skills and their utility, but rename it to shotgun kit or add the weapon, and make rifle more ranged oriented), but it is possible to kill things very very quickly with an explosives build.

The more time I spend trying to come up with a build I like, the more I hate the talent tree for its plethora of weak abilities and awful arrangement. Why is precision in a separate talent line from crit damage? Why are the talents for rifle, the weapon that inflicts the fewest conditions of everything we can equip, in the condition damage line while grenades aren’t? Why on earth would I care about a 1 in 33 chance to change an incoming condition into a boon?
I really want to like the class, but I don’t think I’ll be playing it anymore until it gets examined.

I find bombs to be much better in PvE to grenades. They’re more powerful, and you can kite just as well.

I haven’t quite gotten the hang of engi’s in PvP yet, except throwing grenades off the roof of a keep onto attackers.

I do a lot of damage as an engineer in sPvP. Hip shot hits very hard, and it has 1200 range when traited. I also take bomb kit and grenade kit, which give hard-hitting toolbelt skills.

There are a few annoying bugs, but we’re okay overall.

I play an Engineer too. Rifle + Turrets mainly.

I know there are better builds. But I like having my Healing Turret and my Rocket/Flame Turrets.

I don’t mind having diminished Range on my rifles. But I do think the damage needs to be buffed to compensate.

And I agree – my turrets get smashed way too fast and they don’t really do much on their own unless I’m using their special abilities.

Can’t help but politely disagree based on my own experience and love of the engineer. Since WvWvW is more dynamic in terms of players and strategies, I will use sPvP as the foundation for comparison since the combat is more percise.

Engineer damage is a little behind other classes, but due to being ranged and having a wide assortment of CC (more so if you go rifle), the damage easily evens out. You have to remember that a player’s own ability to keep themselves alive is what is going to determine how well they can do (damage, kills, captures, etc.). You also have to remember that you can’t make yourself good at everything. The engineer is a Jack-of-All-Trades, as in they can perform a lot of different roles and playstlyes. However, if you want to be competative, you need to pick a focus and trait into that specific playstyle (i.e. synergy, weapon kit, etc.).

I use a rifle/turret build and I find the damage is exceptional, not to mention the chaos I can induce. Keep moving at all times, use toolbelt skills before planting turrets, use turrets/slows to make enemy movement difficult, and CC/knock back only when other classes are trying to execute their “big” attacks. I know…easier said than done, but like with everything, practice makes perfect.

As for “effort vs reward”, I would hope all professions play like the engineer. They should be easy to pick up, but difficult to master. I find that the reward for playing the class well is that you stand out even more in battle as well as make other players frustrated when they realize they have no way to counter you when you’re always one step ahead of them.

Lol if you think Grenade Build is the only way to build an engineer you haven’t played a truly viable build yet. In PvP, sigils don’t carry over to kits, which is why focusing on kits in PvP for your DPS-output is generally a bad idea.

Gadgets+Static Discharge and Elixir Support are both very solid builds to use with a focus on the rifle. I can drop a 20k target from 100% to 0% in a couple seconds with these builds on combos with less than a minute cooldown.

I mainly been playing PVP, doing rather well as a Condition Tank. If set up correctly with the right utilities you can do really well. However i personally find that the only turret i dare to touch is the Net turret for the simple reason its the only one that seems to have a impact. The others lack so much damage that it becomes a waste of a utility. I have touch the rifle for PVP, i find it very strong however i feel i sacrifice to much to achieve that, and im just mostly sitting there using the first ability until they come close, or i have to get close to them to really deal some damage. However the Rifle knockdown is Amazing.

However i do feel i get stomped at times, but games still early days issue’s will change. you can Never rate a game accurately by its first few months.

As far as I understand the Rifle for the Engineer is a controlling weapon. What I mean by that is that it is for locking down enemies at medium range and hence less damage than other rifles. I would assume the all out damage weapons for Engineers would be the dual pistol or using a kit.
Personally I have found that the Engineer is more specialized in their function than other classes. I would be interested in other opinions her on that one.
Currently I am running Rifle, Elixir Gun, Healing Turret (using Deployable Turrets/Metal Plating/Auto tool Installation), Elixir B, Rocket Turret/Thumper Turret. I use this mainly for support and control.

80 eng here, currently leveling up other classes.

TL;DR — The way turrets were handled is incompatible with the 3-slot system and the engineer’s single-weapon + kit mechanic. You cannot trait for a “turret engineer” without kittening firearms. And using tool kit, the clear turret support kit, utilizes an already extremely scarce turret slot, taking you to a maximum of two offensive turrets. If you want a cc dump (or any other utility) slot skill, you’re down to one offensive turret.

I don’t think engineer is all bad. Yes, I do feel offensively weak in comparison to most classes, even specced as glass-cannon as possible. It’s a bit demoralizing when the guy next to you is simply blowing away the very same mobs you’re forced to dance around with. I haven’t tried a more defensive “non-kiting” build yet, as frankly, I kill slow enough already.

But: utility, options, conditions, blah blah blah. Eng is a mixed bag of tricks. I knew that going in.

My main issue with eng is how turrets were handled. I love turret classes in all games. I played an engineer in both asheron’s call 2 and WAR. I played an eng here primarily because of turrets and wanted to love them. The thing is, they just don’t work well with the 3 slot system, and the problem is further exacerbated by engineer’s kit mechanic (its slot usage).

Right off the bat you’re limited to 3 offensive turrets by slots. This is a little disappointing but workable.

Thing is, you’re probably going to want to use the tool kit, as it’s the only way to actively repair turrets and seems to be the natural choice for turret support. Down to 2 slots.

Now if you want to pvp, you’re really going to want at least some kind of cc dump or escape, which would mean taking another slot skill. Doing so would bring you to 1 turret.

So if you want to use turrets, the clear turret-support kit, and have a little pvp survivability… you get 1 turret? Was this a turret build?

Theyre not really a “turret class”, turrets are to support you not be your mainstay. Not that I wouldnt like to see an all out turret spec, I just dont think its something you can do right now.

Engineer could use a bit of tweaking but I have a lot of fun with it right now, I knew going in that this wasnt going to be a stand back and shoot things class… its a utility class.

A few things to keep in mind with Engi

1. Rifle is a melee weapon. Do a power / crit damage spec and it will do massive damage with jumpshot / blunderbuss

1. Turrets are weak on their own. The key to using turrets is using traits to support them.

More on #2 you can tweak your turrets using a number of traits to give them more utility and dps. The 20 point explosives trait that gives them an AOE explosive KD on death / detonate is a good example. It gives you a good melee counter if running a turret build and helps turrets mesh into an explosives spec. Letting them play off of other traits like the 25 point minor trait.

Combing that 20 point explosives trait with the 20 point tools trait that gives you the ability to place turrets, in effect lets you use turrets as ranged knock backs. Like the mine from mine gadget. Drop rocket turret on a bridge have it knock down and shoot at people then blow it up and knock them off when they get to it.

There’s also the 10 point tools trait static discharge that gives you a lightning bolt that bounces and does about 2k on crit in a crit damage spec. When you use a turret like rifle turret, with its super low cool down tool belt ability you get a really nice hitting damage ability. You can also use the tool belt, drop the turret and detonate to get a quick double burst hit with lightning. 4K + burst at times. You can also do this with healing, or rocket or any of the other turrets.

There are a lot of ways to use turrets if you break yourself away from doing a 30/30 build

try not to use more than 2 turrets in your 3 utility slots. Having a condition removal like elixir C, and a stun break like Elixir S / Elixir R / Utility Goggles is mandatory to be honest. Sometimes with group comp you can get away without 1 of them, typically condition removal, both without both the moment the enemy knows that you don’t have it they are just going to crush you. Aside from running for it with perma swiftness. Engineers don’t have any real survivability tools compared with the more fotm professions. Once they decide to kill you your dead or running, which sucks in this objective focused Spvp system. It’s ok in WvW.

For those doing condition builds with alchemy / elixirs this doesn’t really matter. Since your getting insane survivability out of the alchemy trait line.

Engineer reminds me of Shaman in WoW – Turrents are like Totems. Pure, stationary support.

Shaman have limited Range DPS too. But they have good, short-range Burst DPS.

Engineers need to follow that pattern and ANet needs to buff the short-range burst DPS a lot more.

(I know everyone hates WoW comparisons, but I think this fits actually with WoW Shaman)

No they’re not a “turret class”, but turrets are a fundamental part of the engineer. There are 5 slottable turrets, a trait line with turret focus, and a tool kit which is clearly intended to support turrets (healing turrets, keeping enemies in turret range).

You can’t tell me that at some point the devs didn’t intend that investing heavily in turrets would produce a viable build.

Strangely I just logged into my eng to look at the traits and apparently anet has been listening. Autotool Installation is now the X skill in Inventions, changed from the XII skill in Tools. This goes a ***long*** way in making a turret build viable, as you now have a means to heal your turrets without speccing 30 in tools or taking tool kit, meaning you have more points to play with to improve your guns, elixirs, etc.

I found that a Dual Pistol/Pistol/Shield with elixirs had ok dmg output but it was nessassary to take full advantage of the elixirs and more or less pop everything at once. I find the damage sub par when compared to any other class if you don’t burn every CD at once.

I don’t care for rifles at all so I can’t comment on them.

I would like to see our damage raised a bit, I don’t bother with turrets for the same reasons other have mentioned. As far as Pistols should be shorter range and Rifles should be longer this does not apply to Long Bows/Shorts Bows for Rangers so therefore both Pistol and Rifle should be equal range which does need to be increased for both.

We are however a viable support class when built for it which I do like.

It seems some people commenting on this post do realize how turrets are viable while others still do not. GW2 turrets and pets are NOT your main source of damage and never will be. They are for support. You need to learn how to use them to support you if you want them to be viable. That means traiting them (pets/turrets) for your playstyle and learning when to use their special overcharge abilities (as well as when to blow them up) is key to winning fights…especially against multiple opponents.

I didn’t mean to suggest that turrets should be the main source of damage in any eng build. Yes, they’re always going to support you.

My point was that given the 3 slot system, the desirability of Tool Kit, and the fact that you usually want at one form of cc/stun break, all lead to it being very difficult to build out an engineer with more than 1-2 turrets.

Although the recent changes have improved turret build possibilities greatly. Namely, moving Auto Installation to tier 2 of inventions and Deployable Turrets to t1 of tools. This actually opens up a lot of options.

Karast.1927:

A few things to keep in mind with Engi
Combing that 20 point explosives trait with the 20 point tools trait that gives you the ability to place turrets, in effect lets you use turrets as ranged knock backs. Like the mine from mine gadget. Drop rocket turret on a bridge have it knock down and shoot at people then blow it up and knock them off when they get to it.

As far as I know Deployable Turrets is now a 10 point Major Trait in the Tools tree. Also it only appears to be working with the Healing Turret and the Rocket Turret so be aware of that.

Engineer damage output is actually fairly balanced the only downside is you really have to min max to extremes. Hybrid builds that combine condition / power tend to be somewhat counter productive. Engineers spam up a lot of conditions haphazardly on crit depending on your trait setup and ability usage and you don’t want a weaker burn or poison overwriting a stronger one. Without a lot of power your power abilities like grenade #1 rifle #3 and #5, tool kit #1, Flamethrower #2, among others just do lack luster damage.

I’ve found your better off going one extreme or the other. That and there are a few different ways to do the power / crit, and condition builds.

But to toss some numbers it not unusual in a max condi build to see burns tick at 1000 or in a power build to have jumpshot crit a soft target like an ele for 7-8k.

Both the bane and the saving grace of engineers is how our weapons, kits, and utilities are split between condition damage and direct damage. So no matter what build you use there are abilities on your bar that just end up being lack luster. You use the abilities tweaked to your spec and the CC / utility abilities but skip the others. While this limits you within a build it also allows a tremendous amount of flexibility. there are many trait builds that with a simple gear swap and trait swaps that can function as a condi build or a power build. You can nip out of combat and completely change your focus in a way a lot of other professions can’t. It’s the hidden benefit to the way the firearms, explosives, and tools trait lines work to support both condition / power specs.

Its not all about dps in any case. There is utility also. The Guardian suffers the same issues being lower on dps also. But the the utility both classes provide a group or even just those around them , make up IMO, the lower dps. The extra buffs and support are always appreciated in a DE.

Much like playing a healer or mystic / shaman in other games.

Raf

Dragnog.7162:

Karast.1927:

A few things to keep in mind with Engi
Combing that 20 point explosives trait with the 20 point tools trait that gives you the ability to place turrets, in effect lets you use turrets as ranged knock backs. Like the mine from mine gadget. Drop rocket turret on a bridge have it knock down and shoot at people then blow it up and knock them off when they get to it.

As far as I know Deployable Turrets is now a 10 point Major Trait in the Tools tree. Also it only appears to be working with the Healing Turret and the Rocket Turret so be aware of that.

you may be right I’ll double check. I had thought it was 20 points since I always take it 20 points in since I like getting static discharge asap.

But the last time I used it I could place rifle, flame, net, thumper, rocket, etc without issue. But I typically only use 1 turret utility at a time. It might be that having more than 1 turret on your utility bar gums up the trait. I’ll give it a test later. But after the patch last night I was dropping rifle turrets all over the shop for knock backs.

Karast.1927:

Dragnog.7162:

Karast.1927:

A few things to keep in mind with Engi
Combing that 20 point explosives trait with the 20 point tools trait that gives you the ability to place turrets, in effect lets you use turrets as ranged knock backs. Like the mine from mine gadget. Drop rocket turret on a bridge have it knock down and shoot at people then blow it up and knock them off when they get to it.

As far as I know Deployable Turrets is now a 10 point Major Trait in the Tools tree. Also it only appears to be working with the Healing Turret and the Rocket Turret so be aware of that.

you may be right I’ll double check. I had thought it was 20 points since I always take it 20 points in since I like getting static discharge asap.

But the last time I used it I could place rifle, flame, net, thumper, rocket, etc without issue. But I typically only use 1 turret utility at a time. It might be that having more than 1 turret on your utility bar gums up the trait. I’ll give it a test later. But after the patch last night I was dropping rifle turrets all over the shop for knock backs.

Cool! I will have to check that out then. The one I really want to be deployable is the Thumper Turret, which I use quite a bit with a more Support like role.

I play a simple build and I dominate against most classes, but mostly melee (not theif). I do rifle/ grenade build. Engineers do a ton of crit damage and can crit A LOT. So most of my damage comes from auto attacks. I debuff using a grenade cit when I hit the person with a net shot, interrupt when needed, and I have the potion that restores endurance. I do agree with you though, engineers are the most underpowered class.

I think it’s agreeable across the board that Engi’s are the most underpowered class but I think everyone also agrees that they are so much fun to play. Going into this game, I did not want to pick the typical overpowered class that just rams through the whole game to reach endgame content. Pretty boring if you ask me. I believe the best way to play an Engi is to put your money on luck. Go for the crit dmg and chance. Surprise yourself and others with the immense amounts of damage you can put out before an enemies can even reach a fight. Turrets are pretty pointless but if you’re smart about it, you can always find that sweet spot that keeps your turret alive throughout a whole fight.

I’m only level 45 and I solely rely on spamming crit grenades throughout fights. It has been working pretty well for me so no complaints.

With the engineer class I don’t think it is all about their damage output but more with their CC and kiting. If you play your engineer well you can kite and CC someone for a really long time. Also GW2 is more of a team game when it comes to WvWvW, PvP and Tournament play. So you have to fill your role within PvP.

I just hope I didn’t waste all that time to 80 for nothing on my engie. Not one to normally complain but I am very upset with the coolness factor of the engineer and how weak it is compared to everyone else. Yeah sure, given the right moment and the right player the engineer can dominate any other class. 9 times out of 10 the engineer is the first target for anyone PvP/WvWvW etc. Maybe I’m just a scrub but I’m had a hell of a time with PvE as well.

good luck to any future engineer. May the turrets be with you, ha