Guild Wars 2

if content scales, it would not matter if id be level 80 or 10 in queensdale, because it would be the same for me?

It’s never exactly the same, you’d still be more powerful. You’d have more skills and traits unlocked for example.

The idea behind leveling in MMOs is so you feel like you’re progressing. It’s been like that in most pen and paper RPGs, which is what online RPGs tend to try to emulate.

I think it’s a dated concept though and needs to be looked at in future games.

Vayne.8563:

It’s never exactly the same, you’d still be more powerful. You’d have more skills and traits unlocked for example.

The idea behind leveling in MMOs is so you feel like you’re progressing. It’s been like that in most pen and paper RPGs, which is what online RPGs tend to try to emulate.

I think it’s a dated concept though and needs to be looked at in future games.

i understand the concept, but i get no sense of progressing at all when im scaled down to level 10 when i want to complete some quests i didnt do before

Like Vayne said, you’ll be stronger at an 80 scaled down than a 10 in a 10 level zone, due to armor/weapons and traits. If all you REALLY want to do is champ farm in Queensdale, then I suppose there’s no point in ever leveling.

i dont, but it seems like it is by far the fastest leveling way
but then again why would i want to go to a higher level areas when the gear i need drops in those level 15 champions?

In lower level areas I can solo with easy any group event.
Looks like you don’t like exploring at all, if all that matter is getting the best current equip then yeah, you can keep at QD champ train till lvl 80.

and after level 80? whats the end game content out there?

WvW, Fractals, Dungeons, craft a Legendary …

I’m lvl 80 since the 1st month of the game, and I’m still not bored, I personally like the Personal Story, so I’m leveling my 7th soon-to-be lvl 80, each player do what you feel like doing.

Andreyguy.7802:

i dont, but it seems like it is by far the fastest leveling way
but then again why would i want to go to a higher level areas when the gear i need drops in those level 15 champions?

Can u do Arah dungeon at lvl10? Can you fight head to head to an lvl80 toon in pvp and win? Imo this thread is pointless unless this is your first mmo and dunno the advantage of max lvld toon…

WingLegacy.7159:

Andreyguy.7802:

i dont, but it seems like it is by far the fastest leveling way
but then again why would i want to go to a higher level areas when the gear i need drops in those level 15 champions?

Can u do Arah dungeon at lvl10? Can you fight head to head to an lvl80 toon in pvp and win? Imo this thread is pointless unless this is your first mmo and dunno the advantage of max lvld toon…

arah drops better than champions i would guess, right?
and i dont care much about pvp, but you are scaled to level 80 so yea i think you can go against 80’s
and this is not my first mmo, was playing world of warcraft for about 3 years and many others mmorpgs, but this is the first one i see a system like that

The whole point in leveling up in GW2 PvE is to be able to explore higher level areas doing contents you enjoy while getting awesome looking skins for your Armor and Weapons.

Contents you might like such as:

Personal Story
Dynamic Events
Hearts
Minigames
Jumping Puzzles
Open World Dungeons
Story Dungeons
Explorable Dungeons
Fractcal
Guild Puzzles
Guild Challenges
Guild Rush
Guild Bounty
Vista Challenges
Skill Challenges
Live Story Events
Crafting
Gather
etc….

You level up in PvE so you can do all contents you enjoy in different areas of the map. Exploring the world and seeing what it has to offer!

ENDGAME:
The endgame starts at level2 – level80!!!
What does that mean? It means You’ll continue to do contents you love and enjoy as your progress your character horizontally to get the best looking skins out there while you have fun!

You’re endgame could be anything!

Maybe your endgame is to Master all the Jumping Puzzles and make Guild Races and rewards for the winner?

Maybe your endgame is to Master every dungeons and paths?

Maybe your endgame is being the best you can be in Fractacal?

Maybe your endgame is competitive PvP?

Maybe your endgame is WvWvW and you wana be a Commander who wants to lead squads for veries objectives?

I DONT KNOW What Your Endgame is going to be, since it could be anything that You enjoy as a player!

But I do know what My endgame is! =)

I never understand threads like this. There is an entire world of adventure out there, areas you’ve never seen full of events and people to save. What the dynamic scaling of levels buys you is the ability to leave a zone when you want to, you aren’t pushed out because nothing there will give you XP or decent loot and it keeps those zones dangerous to you. It’s up to you to choose to finish all the content in the zone now or come back later to do it. Sure if you are now an exoticed, skill and trait out level 80 coming back you may wonder how one of those critters were so much trouble before since now it takes 3 or 4 to become worrisome. Plus you can play with friends who rolled a new character without you needing to roll a new character as well.

MMOs should never have evolved into a race to max out your character to get to the “end content”. This game tries to break that mold by keeping every zone challenging forever. The majority of an MMO shouldn’t be “leveling through” country, only needing to return if you choose to roll a new character.

Champ trains in zones, even in their current form, are a broken reward system. It hooks new players into a play style that shouldn’t be rewarded as much as it is. It’s poisonous to the game and the OP is an example why it’s poisonous. Why should you leave the starter zone? Because the rest of the game is out there, that’s why. You shouldn’t have to rely on the game to give you a reason to leave.

Behellagh.1468:

I never understand threads like this. There is an entire world of adventure out there, areas you’ve never seen full of events and people to save. What the dynamic scaling of levels buys you is the ability to leave a zone when you want to, you aren’t pushed out because nothing there will give you XP or decent loot and it keeps those zones dangerous to you. It’s up to you to choose to finish all the content in the zone now or come back later to do it. Sure if you are now an exoticed, skill and trait out level 80 coming back you may wonder how one of those critters were so much trouble before since now it takes 3 or 4 to become worrisome. Plus you can play with friends who rolled a new character without you needing to roll a new character as well.

MMOs should never have evolved into a race to max out your character to get to the “end content”. This game tries to break that mold by keeping every zone challenging forever. The majority of an MMO shouldn’t be “leveling through” country, only needing to return if you choose to roll a new character.

You nailed it!

Champ trains in zones, even in their current form, are a broken reward system. It hooks new players into a play style that shouldn’t be rewarded as much as it is. It’s poisonous to the game and the OP is an example why it’s poisonous. Why should you leave the starter zone? Because the rest of the game is out there, that’s why. You shouldn’t have to rely on the game to give you a reason to leave.

Behellagh.1468:

(…)Champ trains in zones, even in their current form, are a broken reward system. It hooks new players into a play style that shouldn’t be rewarded as much as it is. It’s poisonous to the game and the OP is an example why it’s poisonous. Why should you leave the starter zone? Because the rest of the game is out there, that’s why. You shouldn’t have to rely on the game to give you a reason to leave.

—> THAT! THUMB UP!
… and on the side: this game is great for solo, as it is great for teamplay, if you have your toon skills well acquainted. So – this is reason why the leveling is, so you LEARN how to use your skills. So you be FORCED to learn different aspects of the fight, go through greater part of your’s toon abilities, and have a possibility to choose what you like. There is no perfect setup. There is however perfect playstyle; it is your playstyle while it is working.

The scaling system used for higher level toons in lower level areas keeps you engaged in the content of the area, unlike other MMOs. LOTRO for example, put higher level toons so far off the agro charts for low level mobs that you could waltz right through the toughest low level areas without having to fight one thing. Kinda destroys the suspension of disbelief. You are forced to engage all mobs in this game – granted you get a definite advantage if you are 80 in Queensdale, but you can still get pasted if you don’t watch yourself.

As for end-game, GW1 got you to the 20th level cap pretty early and the rest of the game was consistantly on-level after that. While a novel idea at the time, when compared to the other MMOs out there, it did seem a little one-dimensional. Like GW2, you focused on your builds and acquiring new skills, but there wasn’t that feeling of being ‘halfway up the hill’ – everyone was at the top already.

As for end-game content, I’ve played (and capped in) GW1, DDO, LOTRO, WoW, CO, CoH, CoV and DCU (don’t worry about figuring out all the acronyms!) and GW2 by far has the most diverse and quantity of content to do at all levels. And as someone mentioned above, going for a Legendary, as I’m doing now, is a long and interesting personal journey. You play SO much with one toon that you get inside that toon’s skins, learn new builds when needed, and see every aspect of the game (save PvP). I’ve been playing since launch, and this game is pretty great.

Behellagh.1468:

I never understand threads like this. There is an entire world of adventure out there, areas you’ve never seen full of events and people to save. What the dynamic scaling of levels buys you is the ability to leave a zone when you want to, you aren’t pushed out because nothing there will give you XP or decent loot and it keeps those zones dangerous to you. It’s up to you to choose to finish all the content in the zone now or come back later to do it. Sure if you are now an exoticed, skill and trait out level 80 coming back you may wonder how one of those critters were so much trouble before since now it takes 3 or 4 to become worrisome. Plus you can play with friends who rolled a new character without you needing to roll a new character as well.

MMOs should never have evolved into a race to max out your character to get to the “end content”. This game tries to break that mold by keeping every zone challenging forever. The majority of an MMO shouldn’t be “leveling through” country, only needing to return if you choose to roll a new character.

Champ trains in zones, even in their current form, are a broken reward system. It hooks new players into a play style that shouldn’t be rewarded as much as it is. It’s poisonous to the game and the OP is an example why it’s poisonous. Why should you leave the starter zone? Because the rest of the game is out there, that’s why. You shouldn’t have to rely on the game to give you a reason to leave.

This post needs to be framed and stickied on every forum and handed to every single prospective new player as required reading.

Behellagh.1468:

I never understand threads like this. There is an entire world of adventure out there, areas you’ve never seen full of events and people to save. What the dynamic scaling of levels buys you is the ability to leave a zone when you want to, you aren’t pushed out because nothing there will give you XP or decent loot and it keeps those zones dangerous to you. It’s up to you to choose to finish all the content in the zone now or come back later to do it. Sure if you are now an exoticed, skill and trait out level 80 coming back you may wonder how one of those critters were so much trouble before since now it takes 3 or 4 to become worrisome. Plus you can play with friends who rolled a new character without you needing to roll a new character as well.

MMOs should never have evolved into a race to max out your character to get to the “end content”. This game tries to break that mold by keeping every zone challenging forever. The majority of an MMO shouldn’t be “leveling through” country, only needing to return if you choose to roll a new character.

Champ trains in zones, even in their current form, are a broken reward system. It hooks new players into a play style that shouldn’t be rewarded as much as it is. It’s poisonous to the game and the OP is an example why it’s poisonous. Why should you leave the starter zone? Because the rest of the game is out there, that’s why. You shouldn’t have to rely on the game to give you a reason to leave.

Thumbs all the way up to this^

Falunel.7645:

This post needs to be framed and stickied on every forum and handed to every single prospective new player as required reading.

and I second that^

I understand what you guys are saying and i really appreciate all the help and DreamAbaddon actually contacted me in-game to help me out which is awesome!

See what i enjoy the most in mmo’s is gear progression, i dont really care about exploring and getting skins and such, what i care about the most much is my character progression via gear and personal skill.

ive been told by DreamAbaddon that i will get all gear i ever need at lvl 80 in about a week or so, is it true? because that seems way too fast and pretty much sums the game for me

This is the same thing as asking why you should level up in any game.

Andreyguy.7802:

ive been told by DreamAbaddon that i will get all gear i ever need at lvl 80 in about a week or so, is it true? because that seems way too fast and pretty much sums the game for me

Yes and No. As of right now you can do about 99% of the content with exotic gear, which would take you about 1 week to get. However, in theory, you will need to craft ascended gear in order to progress past a certain point in fractals (which is the closest thing to WoW type end-game dungeons/gear grind they have in GW2). Ascended equipment has slightly better stats than exotic and will take a long time to craft, but like I said, its not necessary for 99% of the content in the game.

I can relate in a sense that I found that there wasn’t a real endgame in GW2 because there wasn’t a gear grind like I was used to in WoW. There are other things you can grind however. WvW stat boosts, account stat boosts, gear grind for alternate characters, ascended equipment, and legendary equipment. The gear grind is mostly cosmetic, which makes it seem pointless in a sense, but there is a SLIGHT increase from exotic → ascended, which was enough to keep me going.

Andreyguy.7802:

WingLegacy.7159:

Andreyguy.7802:

i dont, but it seems like it is by far the fastest leveling way
but then again why would i want to go to a higher level areas when the gear i need drops in those level 15 champions?

Can u do Arah dungeon at lvl10? Can you fight head to head to an lvl80 toon in pvp and win? Imo this thread is pointless unless this is your first mmo and dunno the advantage of max lvld toon…

arah drops better than champions i would guess, right?
and i dont care much about pvp, but you are scaled to level 80 so yea i think you can go against 80’s
and this is not my first mmo, was playing world of warcraft for about 3 years and many others mmorpgs, but this is the first one i see a system like that

Have a proof that you can win against full exo gear lvl 80 toon vs scaled toon to lvl 80. You said u played wow? Then of all people you should know whats the benefit of a max toon. Yes you can have champ loots at lvl 15 but I doubt you can get an exo lvl 80 drop since your reward are scaled to your lvl…so still this thread is just another troll thread.

Andreyguy.7802:

and after level 80? whats the end game content out there?

Normally I’d say if you’re having fun you’re doing it right, but I really can’t this time, specially because I’m pretty sure you aren’t.

If you got the game and you’re champ farming to 80 to then look at other stuff you’re wasting a lot of content, including absolutely beautiful scenery and basically boring yourself to death.

I once read an article about vertical progression and horizontal progression. Vertical is the typical composition in RPG’s and MMO’s where you level up and get better gear, and you get so much more powerful compared to players lower level or in worse gear than you that fighting with/against you renders their toon virtually useless.

Now horizontal progression is the skill of the player actually in front of the computer. It means that pvp battles couldn’t be fought by comparing the stats of the opposing players like in the scenario above. I guess FPS games are more of an example of this gategory.

Guild Wars 2 is (at least trying to be) very horizontally progressive game, meaning that a player with good skill and bad gear could overpower a player with bad skill and good gear. Here the best gear that could take months to achieve has zero benefit over gear that can be achieved in a week. Only the visual side, that’s it. Things changed a bit when Ascended weapons and armor were introduced, but like I said a player in Exotic gear (the former best) can easily overpower full Ascended player if they have the skill.

You said that you don’t really care about the skins and whatnot, only the stats. If what you really want is that some players couldn’t make a dent to you in pvp or couldn’t contribute virtually at all against a boss while trying their hardest compared to you paying only half attention, I’m afraid this game just probably isn’t for you. I have played some RPG’s where it becomes a battle of the wallets, where a player could hit an equally leveled player for only 1 dmg and the other one do a 1 Hit K.O. I don’t see the point in that, but we are all entitled to our own opinions, that’s the beauty of human nature.

EDIT: I missed the part where you said progression via gear and personal skill matters to you. Anyway the point pretty much still stands, progression via gear is very minimal in GW2. I think the increase in Ascended over Exotic is about 6%. the increase in personal skill however is about 200%.

Andreyguy.7802:

See what i enjoy the most in mmo’s is gear progression, i dont really care about exploring and getting skins and such, what i care about the most much is my character progression via gear and personal skill.

I see … in that case GW2 is not the game for you, GW2 is more focused in horizontal progression, ascended gear is the top tier gear that you’ll ever find, and still it doesn’t offer much advantage over an exotic gear.

What I hate about the “horizontal gear progression” is that the game forces you to PAY for it. A lot of the time if I want a specific skin, I need to buy transmutation crystals in order to apply that skin to the stats I want. Yes you can grind money and trade gold for gems, but the inflation price on gold is through the roof, and grinding gold just isn’t that fun.

Also, if I’m going to spend all that time on grinding for something, I would like it to improve my character somewhat. To be honest, most of the time people don’t even notice how “cool” your gear looks. There isn’t enough variety, most people have seen all the armor/weapons by now so nothing is “new,” “unique,” or “fresh.”

Rick.5781:

What I hate about the “horizontal gear progression” is that the game forces you to PAY for it. A lot of the time if I want a specific skin, I need to buy transmutation crystals in order to apply that skin to the stats I want. Yes you can grind money and trade gold for gems, but the inflation price on gold is through the roof, and grinding gold just isn’t that fun.

Also, if I’m going to spend all that time on grinding for something, I would like it to improve my character somewhat. To be honest, most of the time people don’t even notice how “cool” your gear looks. There isn’t enough variety, most people have seen all the armor/weapons by now so nothing is “new,” “unique,” or “fresh.”

Still, I prefer this method to being forced to pay to get stat bonuses. Undoubtfully having to work hard to get better looking armor always means more work to some people as the definiton of “better looking” is subjective. I personally really like the Citadel of Flame armor and I was lucky it is perhaps the most easily obtainable Exotic set.

My point of view might differ from yours, but the way I see it is that the looks are meant mostly for you and that’s why it doesn’t bother me too much that my CoF set wont stand out from the rest of the crowd. If a low level new player walks in the midst of Exotic’d out players he’s most likely gonna be amazed by all of them. On the other hand none of those experienced players will really notice or care what the others are wearing, just as you said. Sure, it would be nice to proudly show something you have achieved via hard work and dedication, I think titles are more closer to that. The problem is that there’s so many of them that especially new players are having a hard time remembering them all.