Guild Wars 2

Morwath.9817:

Teach Eura how to Ranger. Please.
Be sure you’re doing video of it, so I can enjoy my popcorn.

I actually want to see that, too.

Good luck getting people to finally look at ele as actually being way too strong. Even though the strongest competitive comp and team run double celestial ele. They are running two because they are so kitten strong and honestly don’t take that much effort to be that strong. Doesn’t help that a lot of sPvPers are absolutely in love with certain elementalist players to a near obsessive degree.

They have too much stacked onto them with the earth trait line, burning, blinding ashes, and massive healing. It’s also because of the celestial amulet, which influential figures in this game admit to being super strong, but refusing to say anything more in fear of their power ticket being no more. Being the jack of all trades is fine, but being the king of all trades is not. There are a few aces out there of certain things like mesmer and burst or necro and tankiness, but those are just that and aren’t great at other things.

Glitchfull.5826:

They have too much stacked onto them with the earth trait line, burning, blinding ashes, and massive healing.

My, yes. Of course. The old fire/earth/water/arcane build that uses all the traits at the same time.

You mean the arcane/water/earth setup that does all of those excluding the blinding ashes? Yes, that type of setup exists.

First of all, this demonstration is actually quite useless. Just using longbow skills off-CD with auto-attacks in-between (and not from +1K range so they do a lot less damage) wouldn’t kill ANY tanky build that was just spamming defensive skills. I understand what you were trying to get at, but it only slightly more effective than setting up a rifle turret to auto-attack someone, and claming OP when they don’t die to it.

Second, even if cele ele is one of the best 1v1 specs, the game isn’t balanced around 1v1’s. There is a reason why tanky amulets are, in general, banned in dueling rooms – tanky, high-sustain builds take forever in fights and almost always beat higher-dps builds. That is there to balance out the fact that high-dps builds have an advantage when +1-ing and coordinating burst.

Finally, all that being said, ele sustain DOES need some changes. The primary problem (as has always been) with ele is that it either has enough sustain to survive on its own and becomes REALLY strong when stacked together (due to sharing prot, cleanses, might, and heals), or it can’t live on its own and becomes unusable. This all comes back to the reliance on heals/cleanses that have NO CAST TIME. I would:

1. Get rid of the heal from evasive arcana water dodge (keep the cleanse), and add more healing to cone of cold/water trident/geyser to compensate (as these can be interrupted)
2. Remove regen from the frost-aura trait (this trait is currently good against both power AND condi, often out-competing stop, drop, and roll, which is the anti-condi option in that slot)

3. Decrease the protection from ele attunement to 3s. For tanky builds that also take ele contingency, they still can achieve 60% prot duration from arcana alone, but truly tanky builds would go into earth for ele contingency (meaning they also have less damage).

4. Decrease burning across the board. This will impact a lot of builds, but they are all kinda OP atm.

5. (Maybe) Modify signet of restoration so it heals a little less per skill and more on-cast (although this might make everyone take earth for written in stone).

6. (Maybe) Remove regen from soothing disruption (the cantrip trait). Compensate that trait by adding something else. This will force max-cleanse eles to take cleansing wave, leaving them more vulnerable to condis outside of water.

7. Put a little bit of work into making utilities other than cantrips more usable (especially glyphs and conjures).

This would be my start of shifting some of the survival from traits onto skills/utilities (which need lower cooldowns), enabling greater counter-play (by interrupting healing skills, for instance).

PistolWhip.2697:

Wow… Just… this is so broken. I tanked 3 people and still downed 2 the other fled… like this is just one example, Of course I have expertise in ele as I mained it a while but…

For reference, i went Earth,Water, Arcana, with stone heart.

Terrible players are terrible. More at 11.

A Cele can surely tank 1 player, especially if going full defense with Earth like you did.
No kittening way 3 decent players can’t kill a cele.
For a little time yea, especially with D/F but then he needs to gtfo… if anyone survives a 3v1 and come out with 2 stomps it is clear that those players need to check their build and actually start using their hands.

BlackBeard.2873:

Second, even if cele ele is one of the best 1v1 specs, the game isn’t balanced around 1v1’s. There is a reason why tanky amulets are, in general, banned in dueling rooms – tanky, high-sustain builds take forever in fights and almost always beat higher-dps builds. That is there to balance out the fact that high-dps builds have an advantage when +1-ing and coordinating burst.

Cele ele amulets aren’t banned because of their OPness, it’s because the fights take too darn long to resolve, especially if it was Cele vs Cele.

That and it’s their OPness… xD

And let’s not put the, “tpvp isn’t balanced around 1v1” excuse. Dueling is more unbalanced than it was prepatch. How is this area worse but tpvp remains uneffected? You do realize that there’s a balance window that says “Ok, this is balanced but just barely”. The window is closing in TPvP. We know how unbalanced it is by duels. Let’s not make excuses for what’s really going on.

I want to remind you all that this post isn’t about the Elementalist class being “broken” or “god tier” or “OP”. Its about being able to counter some classes builds much harder than what seems fair in my eyes.

Lettuce.2945:

mistsim.2748:

Lettuce.2945:

So what the video shows is that no matter how much the ranger could possibly outplay the ele, as long as the ele does what was done in the video…The ranger stands zero chance even if the ele doesn’t fight back.

but that ranger was such a bad. how is this even a thread?

a thief wouldn’t stand a chance either, yet both the ranger and the thief can spike the d/d ele down when +1’ing the fight. what’s the issue here?

Duel the same ranger in the video then, or duel an ele on your ranger (perhaps mine?). Show us how it’s done. And do you not read? That ranger wasn’t “really” dueling. He was just dps’ing to prove a point. Don’t be dumb. Please. Just don’t be one of those guys.

no, you don’t be dumb. what ranger “dps’s” with longbow AA? lmao.

BlackBeard.2873:

First of all, this demonstration is actually quite useless. Just using longbow skills off-CD with auto-attacks in-between (and not from +1K range so they do a lot less damage) wouldn’t kill ANY tanky build that was just spamming defensive skills. I understand what you were trying to get at, but it only slightly more effective than setting up a rifle turret to auto-attack someone, and claming OP when they don’t die to it.

Second, even if cele ele is one of the best 1v1 specs, the game isn’t balanced around 1v1’s. There is a reason why tanky amulets are, in general, banned in dueling rooms – tanky, high-sustain builds take forever in fights and almost always beat higher-dps builds. That is there to balance out the fact that high-dps builds have an advantage when +1-ing and coordinating burst.

Finally, all that being said, ele sustain DOES need some changes. The primary problem (as has always been) with ele is that it either has enough sustain to survive on its own and becomes REALLY strong when stacked together (due to sharing prot, cleanses, might, and heals), or it can’t live on its own and becomes unusable. This all comes back to the reliance on heals/cleanses that have NO CAST TIME. I would:

1. Get rid of the heal from evasive arcana water dodge (keep the cleanse), and add more healing to cone of cold/water trident/geyser to compensate (as these can be interrupted)
2. Remove regen from the frost-aura trait (this trait is currently good against both power AND condi, often out-competing stop, drop, and roll, which is the anti-condi option in that slot)

3. Decrease the protection from ele attunement to 3s. For tanky builds that also take ele contingency, they still can achieve 60% prot duration from arcana alone, but truly tanky builds would go into earth for ele contingency (meaning they also have less damage).

4. Decrease burning across the board. This will impact a lot of builds, but they are all kinda OP atm.

5. (Maybe) Modify signet of restoration so it heals a little less per skill and more on-cast (although this might make everyone take earth for written in stone).

6. (Maybe) Remove regen from soothing disruption (the cantrip trait). Compensate that trait by adding something else. This will force max-cleanse eles to take cleansing wave, leaving them more vulnerable to condis outside of water.

7. Put a little bit of work into making utilities other than cantrips more usable (especially glyphs and conjures).

This would be my start of shifting some of the survival from traits onto skills/utilities (which need lower cooldowns), enabling greater counter-play (by interrupting healing skills, for instance).

I have a proposal for you, I’d like to test your suggestions with a simulated battle. You will follow the following conditions based on your idea:

1- No celestial amulet, you will have a choice of : Soldier, Sentinel, Marauder amulet (decreased healing)

2- No soothing disruption, No cleansing water, No evasive arcana, No elemental contingency, No soothing wave

3- No Signet of restoration, you will use glyph of elemental harmony ( to simulate an on cast healing)

These restrictions as I’ve said are based on your suggestions, maybe I went a tad overboard so feel free to comment on them.

Then you will face in duel the following classes/players:

1- S/D thief (kuroi) : strong thief, well knowledgeable about ele due to countless duels with me and because he plays one also..sometimes

2- Shatter mesmer ( Menzies ) : yeah…a nightmare

3- Necro/Condi mesmer ( Alexwarrior ) : the quintessence of frustration

I will try to get a hold of a warrior, so that you may face his stunlock bunker build.
I’m just curious to know if you fully realize the implications of your suggestions, what would happen to an ele when he/she would face actual players and no some random clown-bot.

This is a real request, no jokes…are you ready to accept the challenge

-edit- I extend the challenge to this @lettuce and @grimreaper guy

Supreme.3164:

I have a proposal for you, I’d like to test your suggestions with a simulated battle. You will follow the following conditions based on your idea:

1- No celestial amulet, you will have a choice of : Soldier, Sentinel, Marauder amulet (decreased healing)

2- No soothing disruption, No cleansing water, No evasive arcana, No elemental contingency, No soothing wave

Never suggested decreasing healing, I suggested moving some from an uncounterable source (dodge/swaps) to weapon-skills. You can’t implement 1 without the other. A more fair comparison would be: No soothing disruption, no ele contingency, no soothing ice, but even then you are losing the -20% cantrip reduction. Still, it would be ok b/c there are other good options at that tier in water.

3- No Signet of restoration, you will use glyph of elemental harmony ( to simulate an on cast healing)

I was on the fence here too, it would probably be too much with the other changes, but this also isn’t super-fair as I was suggesting slight changes that would still keep SoR usable. Glyph heal isn’t usable at all.

Lettuce add me in game and lets test for real.

The videos might not be the most credible source to demonstrate counters but none the less it should be pretty apparent to anyone who really knows how to play an Elementalist that the class has a few builds that just run circles around most class/builds. It takes the fun out of the game for me when the game becomes (In many occasions) far too easy to play. I love the Elementalist but I also love feeling like I deserved to win a fight when I do win.

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

From what I have observed Ele is balanced to mesmer, thief, ranger, and gurdian. All of these classes have the potential to be practically immortal despite their aoe. Pu shatter mesmer. meditation/ burning guardians, wilderness survival rangers, and SA SB thief. From what I have seen with the recent updates, when played well they are immortal like the water elementalist.

This seems to me to be intended because of the way dueling was never implemented although asked for. Classes that are hard to kill arise be cause teams are meant to kill them not a 1 vs 1. Basically, the trend is to 1 vs 1 immortalize all the classes so that they are forced into team take-downs.

use pet taunt when he swap to water, he will be forced to autoattack it and not healing.
Pet taunt cd is? 15-20 sec? i dont know, i only know is a good spammable CC.
Still not good and cheap like mesmer’s mantra, but i think you could do the job with that and kill him.

Empty Sky.6354:

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

If you would like to duel me I could show you just how powerful the class is in game. I’d also like to see you fight the players that were in the video so you can reassess their skill level.

And if you really care about me testing out different equipment I actually often don’t run cele and challenge my self by running Marauder or even Zerker.

Regardless of my amulet choice that wont stop people from using Celestial along with very strong trait choices.

Ranger should avoiding timing rapid fire into each earth attunement rotation cycle.

Grimreaper.5370:

Empty Sky.6354:

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

If you would like to duel me I could show you just how powerful the class is in game. I’d also like to see you fight the players that were in the video so you can reassess their skill level.

I actually often don’t run cele and challenge my self by running Marauder or even Zerker.

Made a video using celestial amulet…then claims he doesn’t run cele to challenge himself, so post a video of you playing zerker d/d ele

To all those people talking like good playets hete, why not duel him and get it over with? You guys all talk too much with technicalities, can you back it up with skill in game?

Supreme.3164:

Grimreaper.5370:

Empty Sky.6354:

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

If you would like to duel me I could show you just how powerful the class is in game. I’d also like to see you fight the players that were in the video so you can reassess their skill level.

I actually often don’t run cele and challenge my self by running Marauder or even Zerker.

Made a video using celestial amulet…then claims he doesn’t run cele to challenge himself, so post a video of you playing zerker d/d ele

Not sure what that would prove other than the fact he wont be as tanky nor OP compared to the resiliency that Cele is.

@ Empty Skye
By all meams, show us a better video.

Supreme.3164:

Grimreaper.5370:

Empty Sky.6354:

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

If you would like to duel me I could show you just how powerful the class is in game. I’d also like to see you fight the players that were in the video so you can reassess their skill level.

I actually often don’t run cele and challenge my self by running Marauder or even Zerker.

Made a video using celestial amulet…then claims he doesn’t run cele to challenge himself, so post a video of you playing zerker d/d ele

:| I didn’t make this thread to prove my skill level, I made it because I wanted to prove a point about the class countering a few other classes a tad too easily.

I’d prefer the game be more skill based and less about counters.

Grimreaper.5370:

Supreme.3164:

Grimreaper.5370:

Empty Sky.6354:

If the video isn’t most credible source to demonstrate,then this whole thread of yours loses meaning.
If you want more challenge with ele,take away your energy sigil,your cele amulet,etc. We will see then,how much you cry about eles.
And if you wanna make proper video of players with skills,not just spam,then do that as well. Ranger had free dps on you and he was evading for whatever reason and running around and you also spaming everything. Towards end,where ranger had you low,he started evading and every few seconds he AA you,so you had time to fully heal up again.

If you would like to duel me I could show you just how powerful the class is in game. I’d also like to see you fight the players that were in the video so you can reassess their skill level.

I actually often don’t run cele and challenge my self by running Marauder or even Zerker.

Made a video using celestial amulet…then claims he doesn’t run cele to challenge himself, so post a video of you playing zerker d/d ele

:| I didn’t make this thread to prove my skill level, I made it because I wanted to prove a point about the class countering a few other classes a tad too easily.

I’d prefer the game be more skill based and less about counters.

I dueled lettuce yesterday, and I would say ELE is OP atm, the sustain even with 0 healing power is kittened. Pair this up with the current burning scaling. He used d/f, I would say D/D would be even harder. Only time i beat him is when he used Marauders, even them it was really an uphill battle.

@ALL

DUEL LETTUCE OR THIS GUY PLEASE, Then we can see which people here in the forums only talk too much.

I am on EU,we can duel if you want,np. Regardless of who wins duels,this “demonstration” video is still gonna be bs. And as I said in my first post in this thread, I am far from best player, I am average,but I have no problem dueling anyone.

@ Saiyan
I don’t make videos,but if I did,I wouldn’t make such bs as that. Videos,that actually show what is wrong with class,such as engis Grenade Barrage video of 1 shoting people is on point and true and very useful.

Empty Sky.6354:

I am on EU,we can duel if you want,np. Regardless of who wins duels,this “demonstration” video is still gonna be bs. And as I said in my first post in this thread, I am far from best player, I am average,but I have no problem dueling anyone.

@ Saiyan
I don’t make videos,but if I did,I wouldn’t make such bs as that. Videos,that actually show what is wrong with class,such as engis Grenade Barrage video of 1 shoting people is on point and true and very useful.

It doesn’t have to be a glitch for it to be video worthy. The video expressed our point well enough; players have already started dueling Lettuce and have mirrored what the video has shown. This isn’t just smoke and mirrors.

And I never said,it has to be glitch to be video worthy…. I just gave that for example.

For as long as there are better players than those ready to make OP claims, we will always have these kind of threads, but as it has been proven countless times already that no amount of nerfs will ever give the chance to bad players to beat a better player.

Supreme.3164:

For as long as there are better players than those ready to make OP claims, we will always have these kind of threads, but as it has been proven countless times already that no amount of nerfs will ever give the chance to bad players to beat a better player.

Are you telling me that you feel like the Elementalist is very balanced when fighting a ranger’s LB or any kind of guardian? I’m really not sure what you’re trying to get at since I main an Elementalist and feel I either need a nerf or some classes need buffs when it comes to some aspects of the game. It probably makes more sense to give the elementalist a little shave in its capabilities instead of buffing other classes which are already doing alright in spvp.

Grimreaper.5370:

Supreme.3164:

For as long as there are better players than those ready to make OP claims, we will always have these kind of threads, but as it has been proven countless times already that no amount of nerfs will ever give the chance to bad players to beat a better player.

Are you telling me that you feel like the Elementalist is very balanced when fighting a ranger’s LB or any kind of guardian?

Are you telling me that you feel like the <Anything> is very balanced when fighting a Ranger’s LB or any kind of Ranger?:P

Delete Celestial, problems solved. Jk, Eles would kill me.

I think about little change to Evasive Arcana.

What if, in line of recent trait changes, Evasive Arcana only triggered when you actually..um..evade something? Could be bound to dodge or not, so even Burning Speed could trigger it. Maybe even lower the ICD a bit.

This way we would reduce the reset capability and spamming dodges from Eles, but award good player even more, not destroying Elementalist’s teamfighting.

tbh mass invisibilty should be like this, 5 seconds of invisibilty and +1 second for each affected ally up to max 5 for a totall of 10 seconds, it will keep it’s 10 player target tho. so when solo only 5 seconds of stealth will be of effect great and simple solution makes for a more interesting mechanic too if you will and nerf damage hardcore srsly hardcore

1: Raise the icd of blinding ashes.( Allow a per target cd on blinding ashes instead of an ICD)
2: Raise the icd of soothing ice or remove the regen portion of it.
3: Rework diamond skin so it works as a resistance buff that procs for 4 secs every time you swap into earth while above the 75% health threshold to promote more skillful counterplay.
4: Rework burning across all professions aka scale it down.
5: I say keep the healing/sustain on ele since we have one of the lowest hp pools and armor anyways.
6: Remove protection altogether from the elemental contigency trait since we have enough access to protection anyways. Replace the boon with something else.
7: Rework Ferocious Winds to give ~250-300 healing player to a player using marauders. ( based off precision)
8: Bring back 15 second RTL?
9: Re-work Churning Earth to become useful in more situations?

If diamond skin turns into resistance so should berserker stance.

NeXeD.3042:

If diamond skin turns into resistance so should berserker stance.

if bla bla bla then bla bla bla also…no. warrior and ele are totally different my goshnerf berserker stance and warrior is free kill….it can’t fight multiple enemies like an ele can….seriously how old, it doesn’t have the protection blind spam or teleports.. pls how old

Darksteel.8412:

NeXeD.3042:

If diamond skin turns into resistance so should berserker stance.

if bla bla bla then bla bla bla also…no. warrior and ele are totally different my goshnerf berserker stance and warrior is free kill….it can’t fight multiple enemies like an ele can….seriously how old, it doesn’t have the protection blind spam or teleports.. pls how old

I actually think the healing signet on warrior could be reduced to a 15 second cd and have the resistance set to 10 seconds or so. I think that would solve a lot of condition problems when not running a shout + warhorn build for example, and make the healing signet worth using more often.

Darksteel.8412:

NeXeD.3042:

If diamond skin turns into resistance so should berserker stance.

if bla bla bla then bla bla bla also…no. warrior and ele are totally different my goshnerf berserker stance and warrior is free kill….it can’t fight multiple enemies like an ele can….seriously how old, it doesn’t have the protection blind spam or teleports.. pls how old

Bla bla bla bla bla bla I was actually being sarcasic but now I hope they do it to just berserker stance and leave diamond skin alone.

NeXeD.3042:

Darksteel.8412:

NeXeD.3042:

If diamond skin turns into resistance so should berserker stance.

if bla bla bla then bla bla bla also…no. warrior and ele are totally different my goshnerf berserker stance and warrior is free kill….it can’t fight multiple enemies like an ele can….seriously how old, it doesn’t have the protection blind spam or teleports.. pls how old

Bla bla bla bla bla bla I was actually being sarcasic but now I hope they do it to just berserker stance and leave diamond skin alone.

no you weren’t poor comeback

Yeah I was lol, not that you would know my posts or history or whatever but it’s something I do alot actually….

You need to hint at the notion you were being sarcastic for anyone to interpret it in such a way…

Kagamiku.9731:

You need to hint at the notion you were being sarcastic for anyone to interpret it in such a way…

I thought what I said was ridiculous enough on its own… kinda thought that was the point of dry sarcasm. People have had no problem determining it in the past, although maybe we just didn’t have darksteel to call me out on it.

NeXeD.3042:

Kagamiku.9731:

You need to hint at the notion you were being sarcastic for anyone to interpret it in such a way…

I thought what I said was ridiculous enough on its own… kinda thought that was the point of dry sarcasm. People have had no problem determining it in the past, although maybe we just didn’t have darksteel to call me out on it.

Sarcasm is easy(ish) to spot in person because of one’s intonation and body language. But online, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Anyways, I already dueled a couple people here who wanted to “test” my skill level and proved it already. If anyone else is interested on NA, let me know so we can move forward to discussing balance. I also won all duels on cele vs stickerhappy and 4-2 on marauders against his cele ranger. So, feel free to msg me in game if you want a demonstration.

Someone’s just mad his perma fear necro has a counter to it and is unable to constantly eat up some ele builds all the time.

Roxanne.6140:

Someone’s just mad his perma fear necro has a counter to it and is unable to constantly eat up some ele builds all the time.

Who would that be? I hardly ever play necro.

Roxanne.6140:

Someone’s just mad his perma fear necro has a counter to it and is unable to constantly eat up some ele builds all the time.

There’re no Condition Necromancers left, currently. You are likely to meet Power Wellspam, various bunker builds and then some signet builds – last two use others’ conditions and deal mostly power damage. Corrupting Stability into Fear is still bugged and Terror damage without Condition main stat amulet is very low.

Because of current trait placements, Condition Necromancers are likely to even skip Fear Duration because of other better traits in tier. And we’ve lost plenty of condition duration increases.