Guild Wars 2

As the title says…. people are dieing left and right without personal score reflecting it, even though dieing is about the worst thing you can do in conquest. Not even fighting off point is as bad as dieing.

Dieing not being reflected in personal score trivializes this and makes people think they are doing okay, even though they absolutely do NOT do okay.

I don’t think that mentality was ever the reason why people are dying. People who get pass around 20+ games in unranked/ranked will know personal score means nothing compare to match score. Yeah I admit I come up with random number but you get the point, those who played even slight amount knows enough to not lose the match by dying, and changing to negative score won’t solve the issue.

Yasi.9065:

As the title says…. people are dieing left and right without personal score reflecting it, even though dieing is about the worst thing you can do in conquest. Not even fighting off point is as bad as dieing.

Dieing not being reflected in personal score trivializes this and makes people think they are doing okay, even though they absolutely do NOT do okay.

so if i fight someone for 20 points worth of time on a point my team owns, before dying, (so net 15 points), especially if holding it whilst re-inforcements are on their way. That is somehow worse than fighting off point when you dont hold 2 points? yeah…. i see why dying is always the worst thing you can do in conquest…….

Yeah, there are definitely worst things that you can do than dying, especially in situations where death is next to inevitable (because the enemy force can chase you down if you try to run), and holding the point will allow it to stay in friendly hands even after your death.

not necessarily true
my team had small lead and we need to hold the 2 points we had. the enemy team had better burst dmg so the job was to hold and die on the point as long as we can till another ally came to contest the point

so yes we die after the another but we manage to hold 2 points this way and win the fight

you can also see in top esl team that dies in each team fight but win the game with decaping tactics

Yes. Force everyone play bruiser tempest/scrapper/druid. That would really improve the game and make it more fun.

For me it is a good idea : if someone dies 8 times for match there is something that does not work with his build or his way of play. When you play and see that your team is wiped out in every fight every time there should be something that indicate players that they die too much. People tends to give to others the reason why they lose, this should be a metric , easy and simple , which let you see you as player are doing bad . I expect from a dps or zerk to kill much more than been killed. If you always die and don’t kill anyone you have a problem ( wrong build , wrong class in that team , wrong role you are playing or an l2p issue ) .

zxstanyxz.8769:

so if i fight someone for 20 points worth of time on a point my team owns, before dying, (so net 15 points), especially if holding it whilst re-inforcements are on their way. That is somehow worse than fighting off point when you dont hold 2 points? yeah…. i see why dying is always the worst thing you can do in conquest…….

Learn to disengage. Seriously. If there are even “reinforcements” on the way, then leave point, run up to them… in best case pulling whatever was fighting you on point into those “reinforcements”.
You get kill points, you didnt feed kill points and at the worst, you lost the capture but you can now re-cap it fast.

Btw… 15 points worth of capture points are 30 seconds… thats around the time it takes to get back into the match after dieing.

Think about it. Best case… your dieing didnt put your team behind, worst case… you cost your team points because of your respawn timer.

messiah.1908:

not necessarily true
my team had small lead and we need to hold the 2 points we had. the enemy team had better burst dmg so the job was to hold and die on the point as long as we can till another ally came to contest the point

so yes we die after the another but we manage to hold 2 points this way and win the fight

you can also see in top esl team that dies in each team fight but win the game with decaping tactics

Small lead… but then you go on and feed the enemy team 5 points for each death? And you “managed to hold 2 points this way”, this means you fed the enemy team at least 10-15 points every roundabout 10 seconds. While gaining max 10 points during that time.
You see the flaw there?

Correct strategy would have been…. committing to one point and winning that one point (-> you get the kill points)… disengaging and re-engaging to keep the capture neutral until your team arrives.

Reading these replys makes it even more obvious that players are trivializing kill points and kill disadvantage. And I blame the personal score for it. You might “know” that it isnt worth anything… but why is that? Because things like feeding, double capping… are NOT reflected in personal score.

So lets fix this and make personal score worth looking at.

Please add 1 point each tick of a point when you have 1 guy standing on it.

If you have 2 guy, only give that 1 point tick for the first standing on it.

So soloq players would stop doing 5 roamers strats that suck a lot anyway.

Oh yes, let’s penalize new players. Players that are trying out new builds. Players that might be learning a new class. Cause you know, pvp is just so effing friendly already.

While you’re at it, why don’t we just scrap everything that isn’t a kitten bunker. I swear people don’t consider the ramifications of their suggestions.

I get it, you’re kittened off that you’ve gotten games where somebody (or multiple somebodies) just kept feeding the opposing team. Been there, ground my teeth in frustration, cursed at my monitor. However a blanket “penalized for dying” will affect others that it doesn’t necessarily need to.

You also neglect to mention if there should by varying degrees to this penalty. Do you accrue less if you die defending a point vs dying off point? Does it take into consideration if you’re 1v1 or 1v3 or 2v2 (etc) and how long you last? (In other words is it smart enough to be situational, because death very much is. Even the pro players die.) How much do you accrue each time? Is it applied per death? If so, how do you “work if off” since just dying less wouldn’t be sufficient? How does this affect your matchmaking?

You want personal score to mean something, which is fine. It, along with matchmaking, would need a good chunk of work to make it worth paying attention to.

Welcome back Bunker Wars!

And LOL at people who still care about personal score. smh

How you die makes all the difference. If you hold a point long enough in a 1v2 then even if you die you’ve done your team a favor. While holding a point against 2 others or more, you could be giving your team a big advantage somewhere else.

Also if you kill one person and continue to damage another enemy, one of the other enemies has to focus on you to kill you so dying in this way was productive because you already killed one, and now the other team has to split damage between more enemies.

Personal score is a bad indication of player contribution in a match… it hardly reflects personal skill level.

Adding negative anything just means more players will be ever more reliant on score to judge skill level. Incredibly annoying as I hear it everyday.

When I play roaming DPS war, and I die 5 times over the course of a match, how will that be reflected in score when I take 20 enemies down with me?

And how will my score compare to a bunker spec who dies 0 times, but kills absolutely nothing?

I disagree with deaths having a negative impact on the overall personal score. A lot of the reasons I would cite are already written in the above posts. However, I do agree that maybe there should be an indication as to deaths of a person per match should/could be shown.

For instance,
There could be a separate number (different category from personal score) that counts how many times somebody died away from a point. By away I mean more than a few “steps” (because it might unfairly give you minus points on that score by getting knocked back when low on hp).

I don’t know whether it’d be better to make that number visible to others or not.

For example: Let’s say, player A has died more than 3/4/5 (whatever appropriate number of times) away from a point on more than 3/4/5 (again, whatever appropriate number) games (in a certain time period), it should pop up a window to said player when he’s out in the Mists to go take a look at a PvP-related page (the link of which would be in that in-game window), one that would give some hints and tips.
Make it so that the player cannot remove the window unless he opens the link.

Naturally, not everybody will read it, but even if 1 in 100 does, that’s still progress

Remove personal score entirely… replace it with stats like kills, deaths, assists, special objective, caps, and seconds spent assaulting/contesting/controlling a point while in combat.

There is really no reason to make contribution ambiguous by hiding it behind this silly personal score system.

You will be able to tell right away when someone is spending way too long 1v1 an ele on a point he owns…. or if someone is just running around piggybacking kills and not contributing to capture point control.

Yasi.9065:

zxstanyxz.8769:

so if i fight someone for 20 points worth of time on a point my team owns, before dying, (so net 15 points), especially if holding it whilst re-inforcements are on their way. That is somehow worse than fighting off point when you dont hold 2 points? yeah…. i see why dying is always the worst thing you can do in conquest…….

Learn to disengage. Seriously. If there are even “reinforcements” on the way, then leave point, run up to them… in best case pulling whatever was fighting you on point into those “reinforcements”.
You get kill points, you didnt feed kill points and at the worst, you lost the capture but you can now re-cap it fast.

Btw… 15 points worth of capture points are 30 seconds… thats around the time it takes to get back into the match after dieing.

Think about it. Best case… your dieing didnt put your team behind, worst case… you cost your team points because of your respawn timer.

messiah.1908:

not necessarily true
my team had small lead and we need to hold the 2 points we had. the enemy team had better burst dmg so the job was to hold and die on the point as long as we can till another ally came to contest the point

so yes we die after the another but we manage to hold 2 points this way and win the fight

you can also see in top esl team that dies in each team fight but win the game with decaping tactics

Small lead… but then you go on and feed the enemy team 5 points for each death? And you “managed to hold 2 points this way”, this means you fed the enemy team at least 10-15 points every roundabout 10 seconds. While gaining max 10 points during that time.
You see the flaw there?

Correct strategy would have been…. committing to one point and winning that one point (-> you get the kill points)… disengaging and re-engaging to keep the capture neutral until your team arrives.

Reading these replys makes it even more obvious that players are trivializing kill points and kill disadvantage. And I blame the personal score for it. You might “know” that it isnt worth anything… but why is that? Because things like feeding, double capping… are NOT reflected in personal score.

So lets fix this and make personal score worth looking at.

i dont know how you got this.

i had 1v2 or 1v3 on mid , i knew i gonna die. if i break away the hold mid and far and bunker it as they got better dmg than ours. so i hold the point for 15 sec which yield 30 point and died which gave them 5 points. ally came and contest and so on

30 versus 20 every 15 sec and so on = win.

if the enemy was smart they should go to mid 4 of them and dont let me to come to the point with cc and immobilize to decap it. when it decap only than they can win and i would have to disengage

Ross Biddle.2367:

When I play roaming DPS war, and I die 5 times over the course of a match, how will that be reflected in score when I take 20 enemies down with me?

And how will my score compare to a bunker spec who dies 0 times, but kills absolutely nothing?

personal score dont mean a thing. rather the score you got on each mode
defensive
offensive
support

as i said several thread. give point base on your score mode.
before each match a player must choose his role (if its too complicated for anet than by your amulet) – it will also improve composition btw
if your role is support – than give a score base how heal you gave or condi cleanse you did overall the game.
you can also do track and title thus everyone know if you have legendary support than you probably know your game and rotation

if you got legendary offensive you know to kill and do dmg

if you bunkery so defense so if you take almost no dmg it mean you were not in the right spot to take the dmg and just stand on empty point or you had such great team which able to kill fast the enemies . but nevertheless you hardly contribute to the fight.