Ancestral Grace and Ride The Lightening

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Wow you really are a case of misery loves company. ANet guts your class, so now you are looking to have ANet gut a somewhat similar but not as high dps class. When you ask for behind the door nerfs make sure to clarify these nerfs are only needed in sPvP game mode.

On a more serious note. I’ve always believed that the Elementalist just had too long CDs. Even more so since HoT, this was the biggest reason I did not play my Tempest much except for backline support in WvW. Now I find myself just not playing Ele or Tempest anymore.

I’ve seen Elementalist profession in GW2 as THE class that ANet just don’t know how to balance decently. In effect to this ANet just seems to be ok with rotating it in and out of meta since it can not strike a balance with Tempest.

I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Wow you really are a case of misery loves company. ANet guts your class, so now you are looking to have ANet gut a somewhat similar but not as high dps class. When you ask for behind the door nerfs make sure to clarify these nerfs are only needed in sPvP game mode.

On a more serious note. I’ve always believed that the Elementalist just had too long CDs. Even more so since HoT, this was the biggest reason I did not play my Tempest much except for backline support in WvW. Now I find myself just not playing Ele or Tempest anymore.

I’ve seen Elementalist profession in GW2 as THE class that ANet just don’t know how to balance decently. In effect to this ANet just seems to be ok with rotating it in and out of meta since it can not strike a balance with Tempest.

Nerf the Ancestral Grace not really I am really looking for a buff to RTL.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

RTL is the main skill that makes offhand dagger viable…. Flat 20 seconds would help a lot.

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Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

Well yeah a 1200 range mobility skill on a 12 sec is op but so are many skills introduced in HoT…

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

Phase traversal, Ancestral Grace, they’re a bit over the top in how often they can be used in creating or closing gaps.

They are not at all similar to the cooldown rates of other fast movement skills.

Forum Lord Chaith
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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

Other fast movement skills like … Infiltrator’s Arrow?

Btw, Ancestral Grace has 15s cd untraited not 12s, and almost nobody uses the staff trait, because Druidic Clarity is kinda mandatory. Unlike most other “fast movement skills” it is not a teleport. Mobilitywise it is compareable to Swoop and nobody complains about GS ranger, right?

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Posted by: Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

Phase traversal, Ancestral Grace, they’re a bit over the top in how often they can be used in creating or closing gaps.

They are not at all similar to the cooldown rates of other fast movement skills.

It’s not over the top at all. It’s similiar to Swoop, on a class that previously lacked mobility outside it’s melee weapons.

Ride the Lighting however has a ridiculously lengthy cooldown, but it’s not like Anet ever hit the nail when balancing the elementalist.

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

Hmmm, wait a second, with 2 weapons and Celestial forms, Druid has 3 skill bars, 15 skills compare to Ele’s 20, you mean that explains CD difference for 25s (15s for AG to 40s RTL). This is no damage comparison, it is a mobility skill which function similar for both class. Ele got the 40s RTL nerf because its mobility was comparable to Thief and developers didn’t wanted any class with mobility comparable to Thief.

Now suddenly Ranger has comparable mobility, why?

This Ele has 20 skills, so it must suck, is getting old you know.

(edited by posthumecaver.6473)

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

But hey, rtl has a nice animation

Parabrezza

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

But hey, rtl has a nice animation

And it is bad that we can’t see it as often as we like because of that CD

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

Hmmm, wait a second, with 2 weapons and Celestial forms, Druid has 3 skill bars, 15 skills compare to Ele’s 20, you mean that explains CD difference for 25s (15s for AG to 40s RTL). This is no damage comparison, it is a mobility skill which function similar for both class. Ele got the 40s RTL nerf because its mobility was comparable to Thief and developers didn’t wanted any class with mobility comparable to Thief.

Now suddenly Ranger has comparable mobility, why?

This Ele has 20 skills, so it must suck, is getting old you know.

Now you just poping out random points without actually understanding the argument. Getting druid bar into the equation, also puts the tempst mechanic as well. Unless you have very deep understanding of every profession and their their role in a functioning Meta, you can directly compare two professions one agianst the other, espeically not spsific weapon skill. Just one example- why ranger’s GS hit bash got 300 range and warrior shield bash got 450 range, with better stun duration, no position requirement, better damage and lower cd? WHY? WHY? BECAUSE !!!

Ranger dont have thive’s like mobility , not even close, we’r decent vertical runners sure, but we cant abuse hights and platfrom like thives can or eles with lightning flash.

Looking at ele palce in the meta, they’r considered top tier in all game modes and been like that for the last 2 years. Not sure where this rant is coming from?

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Posted by: alain.1659

alain.1659

Although ancestral grace is a tad bit powerful, the main difference is that elementalist have total of 20 options(overloads not included) while druids have 5. So you can use ride the lightning, swap attunements and use fire 3 and if you are too bored earth 3 (d/d). So the cd’s can never be same.

However druid’s horrible shout build should be balanced immediately.

ps: Ranger/druid main here.

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Posted by: Archon.6480

Archon.6480

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

…because Ele has lightning flash as a utility so Ele can teleport up cliffs then ride the lightning around. The mobility would be ridiculous if ride the lightning was on shorter cooldown. Ele also has four skill bars…

Druid cannot teleport at all.

Jade Quarry – Esparie
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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

Although ancestral grace is a tad bit powerful, the main difference is that elementalist have total of 20 options(overloads not included) while druids have 5. So you can use ride the lightning, swap attunements and use fire 3 and if you are too bored earth 3 (d/d). So the cd’s can never be same.

However druid’s horrible shout build should be balanced immediately.

ps: Ranger/druid main here.

What shout build are referring to? And one of ranger’s shout did got nerfed so….

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Posted by: alain.1659

alain.1659

Only viable healer/bunker/oh hell i am gonna die because of boredom build

I do not like that build.

It is personal.

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

Only viable healer/bunker/oh hell i am gonna die because of boredom build

I do not like that build.

It is personal.

Idk, last season the most dominated build for bunker/healer druid was with WS and 2 signets(SoS+SoR). We have this patch only for a week and season hasnt even began, so i think its to early to call for “balance”. Druid surivevbility benn shaved abit with nerfs to gaurd and protective ward and bestly warden(which was hardl used).

And if you hate this build, do what I do and dont run it.

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

Hmmm, wait a second, with 2 weapons and Celestial forms, Druid has 3 skill bars, 15 skills compare to Ele’s 20, you mean that explains CD difference for 25s (15s for AG to 40s RTL). This is no damage comparison, it is a mobility skill which function similar for both class. Ele got the 40s RTL nerf because its mobility was comparable to Thief and developers didn’t wanted any class with mobility comparable to Thief.

Now suddenly Ranger has comparable mobility, why?

This Ele has 20 skills, so it must suck, is getting old you know.

Now you just poping out random points without actually understanding the argument. Getting druid bar into the equation, also puts the tempst mechanic as well. Unless you have very deep understanding of every profession and their their role in a functioning Meta, you can directly compare two professions one agianst the other, espeically not spsific weapon skill. Just one example- why ranger’s GS hit bash got 300 range and warrior shield bash got 450 range, with better stun duration, no position requirement, better damage and lower cd? WHY? WHY? BECAUSE !!!

Ranger dont have thive’s like mobility , not even close, we’r decent vertical runners sure, but we cant abuse hights and platfrom like thives can or eles with lightning flash.

Looking at ele palce in the meta, they’r considered top tier in all game modes and been like that for the last 2 years. Not sure where this rant is coming from?

Mate I just asked for 2 mobility skills doing the same thing (one with more functionality) why the CDs are different and you start speaking Elementalist 20 skills, am I the one poping out random things?

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

…because Ele has lightning flash as a utility so Ele can teleport up cliffs then ride the lightning around. The mobility would be ridiculous if ride the lightning was on shorter cooldown. Ele also has four skill bars…

Druid cannot teleport at all.

LF is an utility slot mate, not a weapon skill, a skill that because lack survivablity that Elemantalist can take anymore.

I didn’t ask to nerf AG here, I didn’t place any critic to Druids/Rangers, I am only asking 2 skills that are doing exactly the same thing, why is one 15s and other one is on 40s CD.

5s difference is ok but it is friggen 25s difference.

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

Ele weapon CD are balanced around he concept of them able to to have 4 weapon sets that dont share CD. Same as ranger’s, weapon damage modifiers, are balancded around the concept of the pet dealing chunk of the damage.

It was saied here like a million times that you cant compare skills, even somewhat similiar skills, between 2 differnt professions.

Hmmm, wait a second, with 2 weapons and Celestial forms, Druid has 3 skill bars, 15 skills compare to Ele’s 20, you mean that explains CD difference for 25s (15s for AG to 40s RTL). This is no damage comparison, it is a mobility skill which function similar for both class. Ele got the 40s RTL nerf because its mobility was comparable to Thief and developers didn’t wanted any class with mobility comparable to Thief.

Now suddenly Ranger has comparable mobility, why?

This Ele has 20 skills, so it must suck, is getting old you know.

Now you just poping out random points without actually understanding the argument. Getting druid bar into the equation, also puts the tempst mechanic as well. Unless you have very deep understanding of every profession and their their role in a functioning Meta, you can directly compare two professions one agianst the other, espeically not spsific weapon skill. Just one example- why ranger’s GS hit bash got 300 range and warrior shield bash got 450 range, with better stun duration, no position requirement, better damage and lower cd? WHY? WHY? BECAUSE !!!

Ranger dont have thive’s like mobility , not even close, we’r decent vertical runners sure, but we cant abuse hights and platfrom like thives can or eles with lightning flash.

Looking at ele palce in the meta, they’r considered top tier in all game modes and been like that for the last 2 years. Not sure where this rant is coming from?

Mate I just asked for 2 mobility skills doing the same thing (one with more functionality) why the CDs are different and you start speaking Elementalist 20 skills, am I the one poping out random things?

Sigh….. No wounder A.net gave up on forums communication.
K, whatever, have a good one.

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Posted by: Zintrothen.1056

Zintrothen.1056

AG’s CD is way too short, but so are most HoT CDs. But consider also that RtL is cut in half when it hits a target.

Also, AG is a 15 second CD. Nobody runs the staff trait because Primal Echos is too good. Ele’s however can easily trait for reduced Air CDs because it’s the most useful trait of the three options.

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Posted by: brannigan.9831

brannigan.9831

You can’t compare skills in a vacuum. Im not saying AG cooldown is fine or not but to compare it to a similar ele skill and say that it should be nerfed because of the CD difference is pretty specious reasoning at best. Staff would be a pretty weak weapon if AG had a 40 second cooldown there would have to be changes to other skills imo.

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

Although ancestral grace is a tad bit powerful, the main difference is that elementalist have total of 20 options(overloads not included) while druids have 5. So you can use ride the lightning, swap attunements and use fire 3 and if you are too bored earth 3 (d/d). So the cd’s can never be same.

However druid’s horrible shout build should be balanced immediately.

ps: Ranger/druid main here.

Durid has 10 not 5, Yes you have a weapon swap… And for example you can use staff 3, swap to gs, and use the other mobility skill ( cant rember the name)

And doing this you have outrunned the elementalist.

“The cd’s can never be the same”
No one here is asking for make RTL 15sec cd… A 20sec would be enought, also removing the “on hit cd reduced”.

You all guys have to take in mind that Dagger off hand is a weapon that offer 0defensive tools out of the frost aura and the small evade on air 5.
Dagger was meant to be a mobility + damage tool. Now is bad as mobility tool.

But Yes we are maybe only cry babies, we should not ask for some revamp.

So for all the people here, you can still have fun with all the proiectiles hate from focus + invulnerabity.
Have fun

Parabrezza

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

AG’s CD is way too short, but so are most HoT CDs. But consider also that RtL is cut in half when it hits a target.

Also, AG is a 15 second CD. Nobody runs the staff trait because Primal Echos is too good. Ele’s however can easily trait for reduced Air CDs because it’s the most useful trait of the three options.

You may have forgot that no one run air trait line since HoT. At least no one that doesn’t want to cripple his team.
RTL would be 100x better with a flat 20cd removimg the “on hit” cd reduction

Parabrezza

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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Ancestral Grace is a druid skill and is balanced around the rest of the druid.

Ride the Lightning is an ele skill and is balanced around the rest of ele skills.

You can argue against the balance of these classes if you want (and that’s a valid argument right now), but trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of similar skills across classes never makes sense. Class balance in video games 101.

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Posted by: Glenstorm.4059

Glenstorm.4059

How about starting with eliminating the RtL cool down penalty as long as it’s used with a target? If Anet wants it to be used as a gap-closer, then they shouldn’t punish us so heavily if it’s blocked/evaded/the target stealths after RtL is activated; at that point, missing out on the damage should be punishment enough.

Although ideally, I would much prefer a global uniform cool down of 20 seconds. I think the days of worrying about x/D Ele running away, healing, and coming back are over, since D/D damage and sustain have both been nerfed, and power creep has ensured that other classes have great mobility options to keep up.

Fear the might of SHATTERSTONE.

(edited by Glenstorm.4059)

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Posted by: lucadiro.4519

lucadiro.4519

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Ancestral Grace is a druid skill and is balanced around the rest of the druid.

Ride the Lightning is an ele skill and is balanced around the rest of ele skills.

You can argue against the balance of these classes if you want (and that’s a valid argument right now), but trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of similar skills across classes never makes sense. Class balance in video games 101.

The problem is that RTL is not balanced around the rest of Ele skills. Was made as it is because it game breaking the Spirit Watch’s orb mechanics.
This was the reason of his cd and his penality if used as a mobility tool.

Parabrezza

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Ancestral Grace is a druid skill and is balanced around the rest of the druid.

Ride the Lightning is an ele skill and is balanced around the rest of ele skills.

You can argue against the balance of these classes if you want (and that’s a valid argument right now), but trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of similar skills across classes never makes sense. Class balance in video games 101.

When RTL nerfed to oblivion the Argumentation from devs a class can’t have Thief Level mobility and same time that much sustain. Now Druids has same sort of mobility and more sustain, so something is changed I like to know what and why RTL still sucks.

A the Moment Druid and Ele playing same role Bunker/Healer one can be mobile other not, I like to know why.

And it definetely make sense to compare to similar classes mobility Skill specially considering both are playing for same role, when I would compare Thiefs mobility with Ele’s mobility that might make no sense but comparing Druids with Ele definitely make sense.

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Posted by: posthumecaver.6473

posthumecaver.6473

This is a question for PVP/Balancing team.

What is the difference between Ancestral Grace (1200 range, heal, blast finisher, evade, damage) and Ride the Lightning (1200 range, damage) that one is on 12s CD and the other 40s.

Care to share the wisdom behind it?

Ancestral Grace is a druid skill and is balanced around the rest of the druid.

Ride the Lightning is an ele skill and is balanced around the rest of ele skills.

You can argue against the balance of these classes if you want (and that’s a valid argument right now), but trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of similar skills across classes never makes sense. Class balance in video games 101.

The problem is that RTL is not balanced around the rest of Ele skills. Was made as it is because it game breaking the Spirit Watch’s orb mechanics.
This was the reason of his cd and his penality if used as a mobility tool.

RTL nerfed to oblivion long before that map existed.

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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

RTL is the main skill that makes offhand dagger viable…. Flat 20 seconds would help a lot.

I agree with this here! This would be a start.

I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys

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Posted by: Cecilia.5179

Cecilia.5179

I think somebody needs to swallow his/her pride and go back on this insane nerf. I think it is the worst nerf in this entire game’s life, and there are some pretty serious competitors.
It’s been 3 years, and no amount of kitten cream is going to make us feel better.

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