Guild Wars 2

UPDATE #2
I will keep this OP updated with any responses from Anet since the comments section is flooded with mesmer/builds and trolling. Wheres my moderators?
2nd Thanks for everyone bumping who are also calling out to Anet for more answers and more transparency o.O
The new questions are after Anets quote.

@ArenaNet: Where is Spvp going if we have all the following that is taking away from the ideals of this great game?

• MMR is currently unfair when your system is gathering together the top 20 players and facing them off against a group of 200+ and beyond.
  old https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Anet-Why-is-TPvP-Match-making-UNFAIR/first#post2626923

• Dishonor penalty is treating the symptoms that come after players have already left instead of curing the disease. Which is, why are the players leaving in the first place;
  1. Clicking I’m ready doesn’t work,
  2. Unfair matchups,
  3. Little to none ingame Spvp starter area basics stomp/res/capture,
  4. Cluelessness of whats going on in a fight due to lack of animations/castbars etc.*
  5. Balance?
  old w/ Solutions https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Anet-help-us-Fix-Dishonor-pls-50-26-24/first#post2625158

Helseths rants http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2
-Lack of animation
-Spam
Agreed

1st PIC. Four of the top 20’s vs 245’s and beyond
2nd PIC. It takes 24+ minutes for GW2 system to group the top players together.
3rd PIC. Asura with growth tonic/box o’ fun needed for Spvp.
4th PIC. 4 necros, we need a 2 limit class for SoloQ so matches have some diversity.
Thanks soooo much Anet!

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ MMR: We’re working on a fix for the grouping issue you point out in picture 1. This fix should also help to alleviate some of the queue issue as well.

@ Class diversity: I’ve also seen games (referring to your pics) with a ton of Rangers, or a ton of Thieves, or too many Warriors, or a ton of bunker Guardians. In your pic of the top players, you see 6 of the 8 classes. The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

@JonathanSharp
Thanks for the response on a few of the pressing issues you/us are having to deal with.

@Class diversity so no ideas on how the matching system could make the teams more diverse by having say only 2 of a class be pulled onto a team?

@Balance was the sarcastic part sorry lol more worried about everything else.

@Dishonor buff. Anyways of solving all the afk/leaving with more ingame training or just setting it to a 4v4 until they use your ingame Im ready button?

@Animations/asuras Anymore animation ideas like the great fear icon necros got in the future? or any ideas what you guys think about the asura being so small. Was this intended for their weapons and hand gestures to be so small?

@Spam etc. Alot of the noobs are obviously spamming but when you have high end players feeling thakittens worth it meaning both high and low end play favor spamming, which seems also not intended. Any response/ideas to how it might be dealt with?

@Map rotation also players keep saying is an issue. Allie said thakittens random but its been confirmed that Temple is the most used map for soloQ

@Leaderboard Decay. Where is this coming into play. Over half the top 25 have only played once since the 6th. Why can’t a 24 hour decay of 1 rank down be put into play? Wouldn’t it only increase spvp activity on the daily? or have it take more than 11-0 to be in the top 25?

Any questions skipped over this time will be taken as not ready for an answer so np TY!
Thanks again Anet!

bumping this thread. First one is especially frustrating. If you drop below ~150-200 you might as well give up. Every game will put you with rank 600-900’s and having just 1 useless player against a full team of top 50 players makes it a blowout. Goes the other way too, sometimes I’ll go on 6-10 game win streaks 500 – 100. It’s even more of a snowball when you add in the fact of how easy it is to synch que when you’re close in rating. I actually even tried que dodging players on MY TEAM to avoid playing with them. No foresight at all on this.

24 HOUR DECAY please
Also the decay on the leaderboards is going nowhere. If every 24 hours you dropped 1 rank it would solve all these 11-0 w/l and Pvp activity would only rise and give more reason to play everyday.

You go vacation for 2 weeks and you only lose 14 ranks, thats not bad.

Also Team Arena activity would rise since alot of players tend to play games to get their rank higher just to sit on it when they would be motivated to play everyday instead with the 1 rank loss per 24 hour decay.

Is Anet just trying to make their Spvp numbers look larger by letting people play 1 game every 4-6 weeks so it looks like we have an active spvp community, when half these people aren’t even playing weekly?

Bumping… I would really love some feedback of the developers. I know they won’t do much until PAX ends, but a little communication and some answers would be nice. Why is there so much mindless button-mashing and luck involved in this game (random dodging etc.)? And why is there so little skill required to run certain builds? Why is solo queue so awkward? After investing so much time playing pvp and hoping for the best, I feel like we should at least get an answer.

Yeah I wholly agree with the OP. that addresses my main concerns in the game.

Jesus, the 4th pic is disgusting. So many bandwagoners.

I have an idea of what you can do if you like burst, hate condi, and want to destroy the cheesers!

Warning: not an easy comp to run and requires skill

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

The MMR system is backwards. Your MMR should decide who play AGAINST not ALONGSIDE. An elementary school student could figure this out.

Additionally the people you play with and against should relatively be no more than 10+ or -10 Levels of Rank. I’m not stupid I understand that bad players can Rank up in Hotjoin but under no circumstances at Rank 43 in tPvP should I get stuck baby sitting 3 or more Players who are <10.

Krayiss.4926:

• Dishonor penalty is treating the symptoms that come after players have already left instead of curing the disease. Which is, why are the players leaving in the first place;
  1. Clicking I’m ready doesn’t work,
  2. Unfair matchups,
  3. Little to none ingame Spvp starter area basics stomp/res/capture,
  4. Cluelessness of whats going on in a fight due to lack of animations/castbars etc.*
  5. Balance?

This. 2, 4, and 5 I feel are the biggest factors.

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Still would not bring a warrior on a team over any other class.

Daecollo.9578:

Still would not bring a warrior on a team over any other class.

I would stun-lock warriors with mace/shield GS. Or hammer axe/sheild are pretty tough to deal with especially for the condi necros/rangers/engis etc.

jportell.2197:

Daecollo.9578:

Still would not bring a warrior on a team over any other class.

I would stun-lock warriors with mace/shield GS. Or hammer axe/sheild are pretty tough to deal with especially for the condi necros/rangers/engis etc.

Stun Lock warriors are not good on teams do to team stability being frequent. If it was an AOE attack I could see it justified, but the CC does not match what a guardian can bring with walls or what a necromancer can’t bring with fear walls.

Its only good for dueling really, or Hotjoin. Its too easy to counter for a good team.

1. Easy to see coming.
2. Easy to counter (see stability, stun breaks, teleports.)
3. Does not offer the team anything, and the team must build around it, its easier to build defense against it.

Warriors need to be able to do something besides duel if they want to be on a team.

Daecollo.9578:

jportell.2197:

Daecollo.9578:

Still would not bring a warrior on a team over any other class.

I would stun-lock warriors with mace/shield GS. Or hammer axe/sheild are pretty tough to deal with especially for the condi necros/rangers/engis etc.

Stun Lock warriors are not good on teams do to team stability being frequent. If it was an AOE attack I could see it justified, but the CC does not match what a guardian can bring with walls or what a necromancer can’t bring with fear walls.

Its only good for dueling really, or Hotjoin. Its too easy to counter for a good team.

Except guardian stability can be stripped by necros (chances are at least one is on your team.)

jportell.2197:

Daecollo.9578:

jportell.2197:

Daecollo.9578:

Still would not bring a warrior on a team over any other class.

I would stun-lock warriors with mace/shield GS. Or hammer axe/sheild are pretty tough to deal with especially for the condi necros/rangers/engis etc.

Stun Lock warriors are not good on teams do to team stability being frequent. If it was an AOE attack I could see it justified, but the CC does not match what a guardian can bring with walls or what a necromancer can’t bring with fear walls.

Its only good for dueling really, or Hotjoin. Its too easy to counter for a good team.

Except guardian stability can be stripped by necros (chances are at least one is on your team.)

Yes, but that just means more team play, your team must build around one class when the other classes have things built right in. If your warrior makes one mistake (which vs an experienced team that is bound to happen because they know they can just body block.) then your entire build can be countered. Once that warrior’s stun-one-trick-pony is solved, its pretty much one less team member on your team. He can literally DO NOTHING ELSE besides stun lock people. He can’t do damage.

Developers just get all their feedback from the forums and not the facts. No team runs a warrior. NONE.

That’s what I bring up in my team comp idea I posted above

Warrior’s are so good in 1v1 so why bring them to a fight where stability is being spammed everywhere? They are great duelists now.

If your team supports you, a Warrior can defend and harrass in your territory very fast, and win pretty much any 1v1 against meta condi comps. Even against burst they are very strong if they bring endure pain and time their burst well. I think Warrior vs. Ele/Mesmer/Thief 1v1 is a lot more balanced now and they are actually stronger vs. condi classes.

A stunlock warrior can’t do damage? Are you hight? seriously? Stunlock warriors are amazingly good counters to the condi spam meta right now so much so that some condi necros are begging and pleading for a nerf to skull crack and earth shaker. The amount of damage a well played stunlock warrior can do while being pretty survivable is quite good. As someone said warriors finally have something they have lacked for a long time “map presence”

Jonathan, I think you guys are doing an awesome job. I hear people whining over the Ranger, but then I play some matches with my beloved Norn Ranger and it’s more fun than ever. I also love my Mesmer, started a 2nd Mesmer just because…

thanks and keep up the good work

jportell.2197:

A stunlock warrior can’t do damage? Are you hight? seriously? Stunlock warriors are amazingly good counters to the condi spam meta right now so much so that some condi necros are begging and pleading for a nerf to skull crack and earth shaker. The amount of damage a well played stunlock warrior can do while being pretty survivable is quite good. As someone said warriors finally have something they have lacked for a long time “map presence”

IF IT HITS.

I play a necromancer myself in SPVP and I think that build is a TOTAL joke.

Daecollo.9578:

jportell.2197:

A stunlock warrior can’t do damage? Are you hight? seriously? Stunlock warriors are amazingly good counters to the condi spam meta right now so much so that some condi necros are begging and pleading for a nerf to skull crack and earth shaker. The amount of damage a well played stunlock warrior can do while being pretty survivable is quite good. As someone said warriors finally have something they have lacked for a long time “map presence”

IF IT HITS.

I play a necromancer myself in SPVP and I think that build is a TOTAL joke.

Maybe you do but it has had enough of an impact for warriors to claim they actually have viability. So your thoughts are outnumbered compared to others that state they want warriors on their team.

jportell.2197:

Daecollo.9578:

jportell.2197:

A stunlock warrior can’t do damage? Are you hight? seriously? Stunlock warriors are amazingly good counters to the condi spam meta right now so much so that some condi necros are begging and pleading for a nerf to skull crack and earth shaker. The amount of damage a well played stunlock warrior can do while being pretty survivable is quite good. As someone said warriors finally have something they have lacked for a long time “map presence”

IF IT HITS.

I play a necromancer myself in SPVP and I think that build is a TOTAL joke.

Maybe you do but it has had enough of an impact for warriors to claim they actually have viability. So your thoughts are outnumbered compared to others that state they want warriors on their team.

Yes, they are extremely viable and that is why all teams run with a warrior. /sarcasm. That is also why they have always had presence on the SOTG /sarcasm.

Yeah, boonstrip the target, stun, burst, cleave the body. 1v1 I could see stability being a problem, but warriors are doing fine right now. If the meta shifts back to a high mobility burst setup with thief/ele/mes in every team, I could see the potential for them to have problems again. Warriors don’t get a lot of uptime when everyone has teleports, stealth, and double/triple stunbreaks. When 80% of the enemy team is relying on toughness/health for defense, stun warriors have a field day.

BTW dev responses in this forum always give me a giggle. I particularly enjoyed this one

Mammoth.1975:

Yeah, boonstrip the target, stun, burst, cleave the body. 1v1 I could see stability being a problem, but warriors are doing fine right now. If the meta shifts back to a high mobility burst setup with thief/ele/mes in every team, I could see the potential for them to have problems again. Warriors don’t get a lot of uptime when everyone has teleports, stealth, and double/triple stunbreaks. When they’re relying on toughness/health for defense, warriors have a field day.

BTW dev responses in this forum always give me a giggle. I particularly enjoyed this one

Meanwhile teams will continue to run without a warrior.

I guess we will see. This community takes forever to figure things out and adapt their comps, but with the solo queue leaderboard evidence being shoved in their face, it might happen a bit quicker now.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ MMR: We’re working on a fix for the grouping issue you point out in picture 1. This fix should also help to alleviate some of the queue issue as well.

@ Class diversity: I’ve also seen games (referring to your pics) with a ton of Rangers, or a ton of Thieves, or too many Warriors, or a ton of bunker Guardians. In your pic of the top players, you see 6 of the 8 classes. The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

Thank you Chaplan. The grouping fix in itself would be a huge improvement for the Pvp experience in my opinion.

Another pic of class imbalance due to the conditions beign broken:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Jonathan, I think you guys are doing an awesome job. I hear people whining over the Ranger, but then I play some matches with my beloved Norn Ranger and it’s more fun than ever. I also love my Mesmer, started a 2nd Mesmer just because…

thanks and keep up the good work

ITT: Spirit Rangers

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Jonathan, I think you guys are doing an awesome job. I hear people whining over the Ranger, but then I play some matches with my beloved Norn Ranger and it’s more fun than ever. I also love my Mesmer, started a 2nd Mesmer just because…

thanks and keep up the good work

ITT: Spirit Rangers

played that one, yeah. Then I tried trap-ranger which was also tons of fun. Now on WvW I go with crit-axe.

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

Please share this all powerful build with the community. Most mesmers know you and know your tactic you have been the biggest bigot when calling for mesmer nerfs. So anything you say should be taken with a huge grain of salt by the mesmer community.

Take the warrior/mesmer discussion to their respective forums and remove them from here please. Thanks again and stay to OP

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ MMR: We’re working on a fix for the grouping issue you point out in picture 1. This fix should also help to alleviate some of the queue issue as well.

@ Class diversity: I’ve also seen games (referring to your pics) with a ton of Rangers, or a ton of Thieves, or too many Warriors, or a ton of bunker Guardians. In your pic of the top players, you see 6 of the 8 classes. The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

Good to know !!! I do believe warriors are in a much better place then before, for once they have a viable build and a place on a team (although not the best option, as that would be something like a team made entirely of necros and spirit rangers).

Biggest issue I have with the current conditon/spirit meta is not just how obviously powerful these builds are with little to no penalty but how it forces upon the person who plays a class other then necro/ranger to play a counter build – and for the majority of classes a counter condition build is sub optimal to what they seemed to be designed for.

You would go a long way to achieving class/build diversity if you would slightly lower/make it harder to pile on condition damage and do something about spirit rangers. Then hopefully you do something about the ridiculous amounts of pets/minions that clutter the action and give us all a much better targetting system.

I had 5-0 just to do my daily and all and then I get two afkers in a row. The less I play the more I laugh.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

Please share this all powerful build with the community. Most mesmers know you and know your tactic you have been the biggest bigot when calling for mesmer nerfs. So anything you say should be taken with a huge grain of salt by the mesmer community.

Shatter. Basic Shatter build. 20/20/0/0/30

Anything else?

@Pyschogene: A team made entirely of competent Necromancers and Spirit Rangers is a terrifying thing.

Which is one of the most easily countered builds in this meta. Sorry that build is now obsolete thanks to the mindless AOE condi spam.

Darnis.4056:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Shatter. Basic Shatter build. 20/20/0/0/30

Anything else?

Yes, what utilities weaponset amulet, are you running, and what is your basic strategy most of the game?..

Berserker’s Ammy. Runes of Divinity. Staff (Sigil of Purity), Sword (Sigil of Air) Pistol (Sigil of Force). Ether Feast, Decoy, Portal/Blink, Null Field, Moa/Mass Invis. My primary strategy in group confrontations is to fight all targets at once. I’ll deploy clones for each opponent, and Daze/MindWrack AoE them during the fight, until I determine whom is more susceptible to a full shatter. I then shatter them, eliminating them from the fight, and generally leave my team to mop up, I place a portal, and then head to far point. In 1v1s, I’ll focus all of my attention on keeping up 25 vulnerability for full shatters. Some opponents cannot be beaten in this way, such as Spirit Rangers, as they’ll simply outheal my primary damage. So I pick my targets carefully. Terrormancers will always beat Shatter Mesmers, and always have. So you cannot expect to win some 1v1s, but that doesn’t mean Mesmer is unviable. They’re perfectly fine.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ MMR: We’re working on a fix for the grouping issue you point out in picture 1. This fix should also help to alleviate some of the queue issue as well.

@ Class diversity: I’ve also seen games (referring to your pics) with a ton of Rangers, or a ton of Thieves, or too many Warriors, or a ton of bunker Guardians. In your pic of the top players, you see 6 of the 8 classes. The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

Any comment on Asura size and whether or not the design team is considering normalizing Asuran height to match human/sylvari in PvP to balance animation tells across species?

Oh i got it, so basically it’s all in our mind, all this aoe spam, this cc spam, all these confusing effects. It’s just our perception. I really see it now…I finally realize everything. I finally understand.

Fjandi.2516:

Oh i got it, so basically it’s all in our mind, all this aoe spam, this cc spam, all these confusing effects. It’s just our perception. I really see it now…I finally realize everything. I finally understand.

Its because you aren’t good at the game yet, so you really can’t understand the depth gw2 offers.

/sarcasm

OMG you are really crying that standard shatter build have problems with condi? Isn’t this game easy enouth?

Shatter Build:
Pro
1. run with full berseker setup and with no defensive skills as utility and he can survive a lot.
2. Create phantasm that ignore Weakness and can be cast and attack ranged.
3. Do a spike evry 10 seconds with 10k of potential damage and with 2 sec of invulnerability that starts with an immobilaze.
4. Have one of the best stun of the game with 2sec and ranged.
5. Has an invulnerability evry 40 seconds of 1 or 4 sec.
Counter:
1. Build with a lot of AoE
2. Condition.

Now seriusly do you wan’t that mes can win either vs condition? And after what? illusions with 15k of life?

I hope that Devs starts to think that this game is too chaotic with random evasion, and a zoo of creatures, from dogs, spirits, minions. Skills with no a good visual effect that can do massive damage (like confusion bomb of engi). And too many caos in the fight with big effects and small characters.

I totally agree with this poster, you should make this game more clean, and than balance it because now a lot of things are strong only cause you can’t see them in the caos.

And pls community stop crying that your build can’t do evrything. Evry build should be good for something and bad for other thing. For each build at least one viable counter.

For asura size i keep saying that they should create an option that change the race of all other character you see in the game in human, like the one that change colors. And make others that you should buy for gems that change in other race.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

They’re perfectly fine.

First things first, I do not agree mesmers are “perfectly fine”. Every role the mesmer is supposed to fulfill, is simply outdone by others. Having no role to call his own in a team is far from “fine”. Something needs to be done, be it to mesmers or the other classes.

Assuming the tournament build of shatter:

Teamfight: Rangers/necros/engis bring more to a team fight than a mesmer with considerably less risk involved.
-Why bring a mesmer which exposes himself to so much danger in order to fulfill his role in teamfights when others are able to do more and also in a safer way.

Roaming: Thief/warrior have much better mobility and better 1v1 matchups in a tourney setting compared to mesmer which has 2 heavily disadvantaged matchups against the ranger/necro, both of which are almost always there.
-Why bring a mesmer, the lesser roamer which assists home points slower, assaults far point less reliably and needs help more often than not?

The only “advantage” of a mesmer is portal and moa, but the team with a mesmer is essentially running a 4.5 vs 5 just for these abilities. So are these abilities worth it for bringing half a player? I think teams and players have concluded no, which is why we do not see a single mesmer in PAX and the general exclusion of mesmers in teams.

OP here
Lets turn these into PMs or take it to the respective class forums.

Stick to OP if you’d like to add anything you want Anet to be more transparent on.
Thanks guys discussing Mesmer and warrior builds

Noince.7364:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

They’re perfectly fine.

First things first, I do not agree mesmers are “perfectly fine”. Every role the mesmer is supposed to fulfill, is simply outdone by others. Having no role to call his own in a team is far from “fine”. Something needs to be done, be it to mesmers or the other classes.

Assuming the tournament build of shatter:

Teamfight: Rangers/necros/engis bring more to a team fight than a mesmer with considerably less risk involved.
-Why bring a mesmer which exposes himself to so much danger in order to fulfill his role in teamfights when others are able to do more and also in a safer way.

Roaming: Thief/warrior have much better mobility and better 1v1 matchups in a tourney setting compared to mesmer which has 2 heavily disadvantaged matchups against the ranger/necro, both of which are almost always there.
-Why bring a mesmer, the lesser roamer which assists home points slower, assaults far point less reliably and needs help more often than not?

The only “advantage” of a mesmer is portal and moa, but the team with a mesmer is essentially running a 4.5 vs 5 just for these abilities. So are these abilities worth it for bringing half a player? I think teams and players have concluded no, which is why we do not see a single mesmer in PAX and the general exclusion of mesmers in teams.

In teamfights, Necromancers are at most risk, since they are generally focused first. Rangers do not provide nearly as much damage or utility as a Mesmer in teamfights. Engineers are either glassy AoE Condi spammers (Which Necromancers fulfill better), Heavy Static bursters (Which very few people bring or know how to use), or tanky bunkers. That’s it. Period.

If you think Thief, and Warrior have a better chance of 1v1ing a Ranger, you’re sorely mistaken. Mesmer is literally the best 1v1 class in the game. Overshadowing all other classes. Don’t lie.

Assists home points slower? Have you ever heard of Portal? Good god. Half a player?

I’m noticing a pattern that the Mesmer community on these forums exaggerate and lie about alot of things on their class. I main a Mesmer, it’s my primary class. I am also a master of the Necromancer. Mesmer is very viable, and very useful. More so than a Thief.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly a Necromancer, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly play a Necro, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Obviously you do not know me, then. I main Mesmer. I gave up Necro when I realized I had an unfair advantage over most other classes. I only use my Necro in high-stakes games, or when I feel the need to theory craft. I decided it would be a good time as any to master the Mesmer.

Any player that knows me personally, and fights against me often, knows what I am capable of. You obviously do not know me, or never fought me.

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

How you doing on that solo queue btw?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly play a Necro, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Obviously you do not know me, then. I main Mesmer. I gave up Necro when I realized I had an unfair advantage over most other classes. I only use my Necro in high-stakes games, or when I feel the need to theory craft. I decided it would be a good time as any to master the Mesmer.

Any player that knows me personally, and fights against me often, knows what I am capable of. You obviously do not know me, or never fought me.

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

So you’re new to Mesmer and you play against bad players. Okay gotcha.

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly play a Necro, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Obviously you do not know me, then. I main Mesmer. I gave up Necro when I realized I had an unfair advantage over most other classes. I only use my Necro in high-stakes games, or when I feel the need to theory craft. I decided it would be a good time as any to master the Mesmer.

Any player that knows me personally, and fights against me often, knows what I am capable of. You obviously do not know me, or never fought me.

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

So you’re new to Mesmer and you play against bad players. Okay gotcha.

I’m not new to Mesmer. I play whatever players I end up fighting. As I stated, you obviously do not know me, and I do not know you.

Anything else before I ignore you? Skeptical people that ignore facts/logic and choose to discredit rather than disprove tend to annoy me, and I tend to ignore them. Also, here’s a tip for your arguments in the future:

Don’t try to discredit people’s skill, discredit their arguments. All you do is become provocative and pointless when you do the former.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jasher.6580:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

jportell.2197:

@J. Sharp-Mesmers have some counters to conditions but when specced completely to counter conditions they are doing that and nothing else. That is the issue we are coming across in this meta. Classes are able to use conditions and clear them. Or counter them and maintain a relative resistance to them while still doing something decent for the team.

Right now mesmers cannot both use counters to conditions and still be effective for their team. The CD on nullfield was a nice start but mesmers still need some sort of overhaul when it comes to considering how they counter conditions compared to others. It’s not that players don’t like to run those things in standard mesmer builds. It is once the mesmer starts running those things they are taking away from the effectiveness of their intended role. Necros/Engis/Warr/Rangers/Guards/Thieves are able to decently deal with conditions and still fulfill their team role.

Hi, I’m a Mesmer. I can do everything you said we can’t.

Now what?

You’re not a Mesmer. You’re predominantly play a Necro, I know you. You’re also not that “pro”. (I’m trying to be nice here)

Obviously you do not know me, then. I main Mesmer. I gave up Necro when I realized I had an unfair advantage over most other classes. I only use my Necro in high-stakes games, or when I feel the need to theory craft. I decided it would be a good time as any to master the Mesmer.

Any player that knows me personally, and fights against me often, knows what I am capable of. You obviously do not know me, or never fought me.

Or perhaps you’re judging based off of a random solo queue, when I was testing a theory crafted build. Because those always show pure skill.

So you’re new to Mesmer and you play against bad players. Okay gotcha.

I’m not new to Mesmer. I play whatever players I end up fighting. As I stated, you obviously do not know me, and I do not know you.

Anything else before I ignore you? Skeptical people that ignore facts/logic and choose to discredit rather than disprove tend to annoy me, and I tend to ignore them.

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Jasher.6580:

I know you. I spoke with you in Team Speak one night when you were “teaching” me about Necromancers.

Obviously you weren’t one of my better students, since I tend to remember them. There have only been a handful of students I bring into voice chat, at that. So you definitely weren’t memorable.

Regardless, skill is not in question here. If we wanted to question personalities, then I’d argue over your attitude and intelligence, though that would get the topic on hand nowhere.

The topic I responded to was about Mesmer viability. I explained they are highly viable. I know many Mesmers, far better than myself whom would concur.