Guild Wars 2

I am wondering what anti-fun gameplay everyone currently sees in Gw2 sPvP. This seems to be a big barrier to newer players. Looking at PvP I just see a conscious decision to compromise fun for the sake of increased depth, which pretty much goes against other successful Pvp titles.

The downed state is pretty much the perfect example of this. Can anyone say there is anything ‘fun’ about the downed state? How do you think new players seeing it in action will first react? I personally feel like its cheating to even use the downed state in a 1v2. In pub games if an ally dies in a 1v2 I usually stand back and let him get stopped because that is a victory I am not going to take away from that lone person. Sadly the game normally does.

What other types of gameplay do newer players see that just isn’t fun? Though this affects older players as well. I personally find a lot of this wearing on me and I have been around for awhile.

I like downed state. It makes more sense that you don’t operate at full capacity right up until the moment you drop dead.

I think finishers are stupid though, as you could be healed to 99% and an ally could be healing you or attacking them but they still can wipe you out. I’d love finishers to only be available when your health is like 25% or lower.

Downed state should disappear from game in Spvp or WvWvW, in pve is ok.

I’ve never had a problem with downed state since I started PvP so I argue that it’s all relative on that front. I personally think this PvP would be easier to grasp if Anet had some tutorials on things like who to handle thieves and the value of stats.

Downed state is fine.

They just need to balance them

I don’t think the concept of downstate is bad. However the implementation of it I dislike as there is nothing really fun about it. Its there to help prevent burst and add skilled play but doesn’t have a fun and interesting aspect to it. Teleporting around and forcing someone to chase you isn’t something I would call fun. Then it also limits the ability to win 1v2s and those hero moments that keep people playing.

The downstate is also hardly the only example where fun is compromised in favor of depth. Good games have depth + fun tied together, not a trade off. I think the devs need to take a step back from their vision of the competitive scene and focus on the roots of what makes a game fun. Pendragon also made a good post earlier going over how too much attention is going to the competitive scene before a base has been established. Paids aren’t always popping so there needs to be something fun and rewarding for people to fall back on in the meantime.

Anti fun for me is the same as it’s been in PvP since the first style of mmo’s like this appeared:
Stealth (rogues, thieves, assassins, etc)
Mesmers are just annoying and rather anti-“fun” though not quite to the same level as the first one.
And probably most importantly lack of balance and viability/diversity in build selection available.

Downstate is fine but the problem is that some classes have a huge advantage over others on a downstate, so they should really homogenise the abilities through the classes’ downstate to balance it out.
(Ex. See Warrior, Elementalist, Thief, Mesmer compared to Guardian Necromancer,Engineer,Ranger)

To me downed state should look something similar to zyra’s passive. I see this being more akin to fps downstates where there is a higher recoil in the downed state. A one-off nuke that has a large skill component and can get you back into the fight. Players should also be able to recharge the skill after channeling with it being interruptable by cc. It would just need a system to help it deal with an opponents downed state as well. Such as if they die shortly after being hit by one of these nukes they enter the downstate at 33% hp.

Someone landing something more like that would seem like an acceptable way to turn a fight around and feels rewarding for the people being successful with it. Much better than a steam of dps by mashing a button.

Elementalist? They get 1 save from a finisher. Thief & mesmer get unlimited. It’s actually faster to just hit them with auto attack than try a finisher.

Warriors I agree with though, since almost every time you are downed in PvP you are going to die anyway, it’s really like giving them a bunch of extra HP.

Kyzen.7452:

Down state isn’t going anywhere but if I could choose it would only have its place in PVE

Agreed I feel downstate doesn’t really fit well with a fast paced PvP scene. I feel it’s too much of a broken idea thrown into the mix of PvP. One of the main concerns was that the developers don’t really know how to fix the problem when a team goes to revive a teammate and they all die because there simply is no way to fix that. I think scrapping downstate would be a step in the right direction. It takes more skill to down a player than it does to revive him personally. And yes I know some classes are easier to play than others but I’m saying as a whole.

Downed State is boring.

I like the actual fighting between players, before you have people in downed state hur durring around trying to finish/rally.

Down state is annoying in 1v1.

In group fights it’s great.

Downed state on paper makes sense. In game its unbalanced and a pain in general.

It needs reworked in several ways.

1. Everyclass should be able to crawl, not just eles, thiefs, and mesmers.
2. Finisher modifiers need to go; stability, stealth, quickness, and maybe minion/pet shields.
3. Finishers should be quicker and counters need to be more timing related or changed in another way.
or
4. When initiating downed they should behave like Halo: Reach ’s assassinations, where only a teamate can save you with a well placed shot
OR again
5. Finishers need to initiate a sort of brawl where your moves can be countered by eachother, but the attacker will have a definite advantage but still deal great damage should he fail to KO by means of enemies or being countered.

And of course a simple rebalance in skills may fix issues with downed.

Fourth.1567:

Can anyone say there is anything ‘fun’ about the downed state? How do you think new players seeing it in action will first react?

A friend of mine with whom I started playing the game named DS as one of the reasons why he stopped playing shortly after release. He was a PvP maniac as I was in WoW, played in one of the Arena top teams on his realm pool etc., but he couldn’t ignore how limiting and annoying DS is when playing solo or even in unorganized groups. Other reasons he named were the activation delay of many skills that made combat feel odd to him, and too many easy-to-execute-but-hard-to-counter skills (basically anything quickness related of which several things were yet un-nerfed at release).

OH! bringing the thread back on track, my biggest issue with anti-fun gameplay is that sPvP revolves around capture point and bunker builds.

Clark Skinner.4902:

Elementalist? They get 1 save from a finisher. Thief & mesmer get unlimited. It’s actually faster to just hit them with auto attack than try a finisher.

Warriors I agree with though, since almost every time you are downed in PvP you are going to die anyway, it’s really like giving them a bunch of extra HP.

But a elementalist can stop a Whole group guaranteed on the first stomp while still repositioning themselves. You cannot stomp an ele on the first try. A thief or Mesmer can still be stomped by one person guaranteed if your fast enough everytime (blink stomp, lightning flash stomp, any teleport skill usable while stomping).

I have been downed a lot of times in PvP. The number of times my mist form got me to safety so I could heal: 2. Once because I was near the base and ran through the door to safety. The other time, it must have been a noob who thought I was dead and they ran away. Every other time it did nothing to save me. I’m not complaining, I’m just saying it’s not as great as it seems and the cooldown is 20s. Also downed penalty gets +1 each time it’s used.

Downed mist form is futile in PvP. I only use it to delay my enemy by 3 seconds (like it’ll make a diff) or to try to combat taking the point by a sliver.

Downstate is ok,

Rally is NOT ok it flat out terrible. Multiple people rally on one stomp is worst then terrible its a joke.

Downstate is actually really good. But the whole idea behind the bunkers is just horrible. Bunkers are anti-fun gameplay.

Lord Aargadon.4135:

OH! bringing the thread back on track, my biggest issue with anti-fun gameplay is that sPvP revolves around capture point and bunker builds.

Yeah I definitely find this. It seems great for more the competitive side as it promotes team communication and synergy. However its hardly a fun game type and is no where near ideal for people just looking to have fun in hot joins. The snowball arena has many more fun elements and really showcases the difference between something designed to be fun and something designed to be competitive. There needs to be both available.

Having only this one cap point gametype really limits the game to, do you have 5 people on viop? No? Then don’t both playing as there is no fun element outside of trying to be competitive.

I think when they add in custom servers to the hotjoin list they have the opportunity to take gametypes meant to be fun, like hutball and the snowball arena. However I really worry the devs are tunnel visioning on this, with their only goal for custom servers is to allow teams to scrim or 3rd party organizations to host tournaments.

I hate the downed state also and think it needs to go, it ruins 1v2 or even 2v2 when you have to take that extra time to stomp a player you already defeated. On top of that skills are lacking.

Downed state adds a layer of complexity. It’s not enough to just walk into a 1v2 and pop your burst combo, and expect to kill one of them. There are still a couple of tweaks that need making—sometimes people rally off a treb hit or when some minion dies, some downed states are stronger than others—but taking it out completely wouldn’t exactly help.

Downed state is great and will be one of the best, differentiating feature of the game if they can ever get the e-sport PvP support off the ground.

Barely getting off a rally, or perfectly coordinating a team stability to support rezing will be major points of attraction in good matches.

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state is great and will be one of the best, differentiating feature of the game if they can ever get the e-sport PvP support off the ground.

Barely getting off a rally, or perfectly coordinating a team stability to support rezing will be major points of attraction in good matches.

I disagree, even from a competitive stand point. I lose interest in watching games when players rally. It turns fights from being close to being very one sided based on team comp and fraction of a second differences. How much this swings fights becomes more of a frustration than something enjoyable, even if it is supposed to add ‘depth’.

The reason for rallies is to snowball fights to overcome problems with the interaction of bunkers and cap points, so team fights don’t drag out too long and help with comebacks. Rallies are used as a bandaid to hide another problem while being a frustrating mechanic itself.

The downed state is fine.

This trend of trying to justify an opinion by its affect on some material level of “fun” is idiotic. “Fun” isn’t a currency that players use among eachother—saying, “This doesn’t add to the game’s level of fun!” doesn’t mean anything. If you dislike a mechanic, you obviously don’t think it’s fun. If you like it, you obviously do.

Saying, “I don’t like this because it’s not fun, and that’s why it should be replaced with something more fun!” is useless. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it should be removed, nor does it mean it is “unfun”. Christ.

AmagicalFishy.6935:

Saying, “I don’t like this because it’s not fun, and that’s why it should be replaced with something more fun!” is useless.

This makes sense after all…

AmagicalFishy.6935:

The downed state is fine.

This trend of trying to justify an opinion by its affect on some material level of “fun” is idiotic. “Fun” isn’t a currency that players use among eachother—saying, “This doesn’t add to the game’s level of fun!” doesn’t mean anything. If you dislike a mechanic, you obviously don’t think it’s fun. If you like it, you obviously do.

Saying, “I don’t like this because it’s not fun, and that’s why it should be replaced with something more fun!” is useless. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it should be removed, nor does it mean it is “unfun”. Christ.

Maybe its not a quantifiable metric but that is not to say it doesn’t exist and isn’t used in creating games. Anecdotal justification is useful to determine enjoyability but usually requires a large group of people. It is also quite possible to create mechanics that can be enjoyable while accomplishing its goal.

Hasn’t the downed state debate been run into the ground already? There are other problems that people who don’t know how to stomp seem to be ignoring.

What I personally find un-fun is the overabundance of invulnerability and blocking that all classes have, it’s not fun when someone can stand in place without taking any damage or CC while your own health ticks down. The most annoying build I’ve come across in spvp is the near-perma-stealth thieves that drop caltrops on a point and use death blossom (evade evade evade) a couple of times before going invis and running away, only to come back to do it again. They can’t kill you, you can’t kill them, they’re just annoying.

Then there are bunker guardians that can block 100% of attacks while they’re healing.

Cunning.7946:

Then there are bunker guardians that can block 100% of attacks while they’re healing.

It’s called Shelter and it’s just a simple #6 healing skill (Probably the best they have)….every guardian can run it, not just bunkers

2 secs block healing at the end for something like 5k on 30 secs cd if i remember right..

OneManArmy.5617:

Downstate is fine but the problem is that some classes have a huge advantage over others on a downstate, so they should really homogenise the abilities through the classes’ downstate to balance it out.
(Ex. See Warrior, Elementalist, Thief, Mesmer compared to Guardian Necromancer,Engineer,Ranger)

The Ranger has one of the most epic down states in the game if you know what to do.

You can use your pet’s skills whilst in downed state to give you an edge, for instance a wolf will allow you to interrupt an enemy stomp three times and lick wounds will keep you alive longer for your allies to revive you.

Agree with a lot of the comments in this thread.

First, downed state is a gimmicky mini-game. When you first start playing, it’s annoying because it has absolutely nothing to do with 90% of combat. Then you learn it, learn all of the cute tricks to stomp and revive, and you tolerate it (or maybe even like it). But it does not change the fact that it’s a side show that often steals the show, when it shouldn’t.

Second, long sustain builds are not fun. In my opinion, healing outside of your 6 ability, should be fairly limited, yet most classes have ways to maintain fairly constant healing, which when combined with a healing amulet, energy sigils and other traits to increase vigor uptime, evade abilities, and other defensive utilities and skills, makes fighting these classes incredibly frustrating.

Defensively, a player can make a lottt of mistakes, essentially just dodge on cooldown, and yet still maintain massive sustain through constant healing. I main on a dagger/dagger Ele who runs Valk’s, and I know it’s dumb… I’m not sure intelligent use of Poison is the solution either, because the sustain is so strong (along with condi removal), that it barely seems to register. Plus, the skill required to time Poisons or Immobilizes between condi removals to effectively counter the sustain from this healing seems much higher than the skill required to run these defensive builds.

I would nerf the sustain through healing hard, so that most healing comes from your interruptible 6 healing ability. Low vitality, high healing builds are just way too strong.

Atlas.6901:

Agree with a lot of the comments in this thread.

First, downed state is a gimmicky mini-game. When you first start playing, it’s annoying because it has absolutely nothing to do with 90% of combat. Then you learn it, learn all of the cute tricks to stomp and revive, and you tolerate it (or maybe even like it). But it does not change the fact that it’s a side show that often steals the show, when it shouldn’t.

Second, long sustain builds are not fun. In my opinion, healing outside of your 6 ability, should be fairly limited, yet most classes have ways to maintain fairly constant healing, which when combined with a healing amulet, energy sigils and other traits to increase vigor uptime, evade abilities, and other defensive utilities and skills, makes fighting these classes incredibly frustrating.

Defensively, a player can make a lottt of mistakes, essentially just dodge on cooldown, and yet still maintain massive sustain through constant healing. I main on a dagger/dagger Ele who runs Valk’s, and I know it’s dumb… I’m not sure intelligent use of Poison is the solution either, because the sustain is so strong (along with condi removal), that it barely seems to register. Plus, the skill required to time Poisons or Immobilizes between condi removals to effectively counter the sustain from this healing seems much higher than the skill required to run these defensive builds.

I would nerf the sustain through healing hard, so that most healing comes from your interruptible 6 healing ability. Low vitality, high healing builds are just way too strong.

Your suggestion is laughable, you’re asking a profession with 10k HP to survive through the single use of the main healing skill only, while there are professions that can deal over 10k dmg every 10-15s and by pressing 2 buttons only….wow dude…
what about learn to recognize when ele leaves water attunement? Outside the 2 water traits to remove a single condition, eles got only a single cantrip and the ER, once the ele burn all of his cantrips and get caught outside water..he’s pretty much done…
But of course that’s too hard and it’s better to have a game where all you have to do is press F1-2-2-2-2-2-stealth-2-2-2-2-2…

What on earth are you talking about? Are we even playing the same game, or are you just this dumb? Sorry, I normally try and be productive when I post, but some people…

I see you edited your post to make clear that you don’t want them to touch Ele healing and have issues with Thiefs. That alone makes me wonder about you… In your hands, it may feel like the balance is just right on the Ele or other high sustain bunker, but in the right hands, 1v1 take wayyyy to long to resolve and defense is greater than (and easier than) offense, which is not the way it should be.

Sorry if I struck a nerve. That’s what is not fun to me — what Fourth was asking about.

Edit: I also have to add that this idea that if you “catch the Ele outside of Water Attunement, he is done” concept is — to use your term — laughable. On D/D, with 30 Arcane, energy swap sigil, traited vigor on crit, intelligent use of my defensive cooldowns, LOS and other basic tactics, and the pressure I can maintain throughout a fight to take the pressure off me, I can usually get back into Water Attunement when I need to. You make it sound so simple, when really, it’s a delicate dance, both for the Ele and the person fighting the Ele, not just “out of Water, faceroll keyboard, win.” If you are losing when that happens, you’re doing something seriously wrong.

Atlas.6901:

What on earth are you talking about? Are we even playing the same game, or are you just this dumb? Sorry, I normally try and be productive when I post, but some people…

I would nerf the sustain through healing hard, so that most healing comes from your interruptible 6 healing ability. Low vitality, high healing builds are just way too strong.

Are you kittening serious dude? The MAIN reason eles got 10k HP is because of water heals and regeneration and you’re asking to remove them and only survive through the use of the main heal and what would be the kittening point of having the lowest health? how the hell are we supposed to play a 10k HP profession (guardian/ele) without additional healing? ….you even dare to call people dumb..jesus

Atlas.6901:

What on earth are you talking about? Are we even playing the same game, or are you just this dumb? Sorry, I normally try and be productive when I post, but some people…

I see you edited your post to make clear that you don’t want them to touch Ele healing and have issues with Thiefs. That alone makes me wonder about you… In your hands, it may feel like the balance is just right on the Ele or other high sustain bunker, but in the right hands, 1v1 take wayyyy to long to resolve and defense is greater than (and easier than) offense, which is not the way it should be.

Sorry if I struck a nerve. That’s what is not fun to me — what Fourth was asking about.

You completely miss the point dude…from the moment that they designed a game where some professions got 45% more health than other on top of armour, it’s clear that something extra was supposed to be given to the profession sitting on the lower end of the HP bar, without that extra something what would be the point in having those professions…and you don’t get it..this simple concept

You miss the point that you are obviously not as good at the class, as maybe you think you are, and it’s incredibly strong, notwithstanding the small health pool (which you exaggerate). Furthermore, the healing issue isn’t just for the Ele, it applies to other classes also. The basic premise is that damage/time should be higher than healing/time (or defense/time — however you want to look at it), averaged out across engagements of various skill levels. Ele is definitely one of the classes that needs a look in this specific regard. As do Guardians.

Edit: Please do note that I spend a lot of time on the Ele, and I do not think that the class in general is grossly imbalanced. For example, I think that certain Ele skill shots should hit harder than they do, because they can be hard to land (and easy to avoid). Ele could use some upward tweaks in other areas in my opinion, but the sustain builds seem slightly out of line at the moment, which is my only point, regardless of what bad players who can finally survive for a few extra seconds might think.

You can leave the " I’m good and you’re not" childish talk ..you could lose that 1% of credibility you have.
The basic premise is that you completely ignore any math correlation currently present in the game, the damage/time ratio is way too high for few profession and this is balanced by high healing/time of other professions and the HP/armour ratio define where each profession sit, to go and have a flattened healing/time ration for all professions would leave the professions with high damage/time ration in a situation of complete dominance….

Atlas.6901:

.

Edit: Please do note that I spend a lot of time on the Ele, and I do not think that the class in general is grossly imbalanced. For example, I think that certain Ele skill shots should hit harder than they do, because they can be hard to land (and easy to avoid). Ele could use some upward tweaks in other areas in my opinion, but the sustain builds seem slightly out of line at the moment, which is my only point, regardless of what bad players who can finally survive for a few extra seconds might think.

How sad…in the end you’re nothing more than other kid, you really think to be in position to judge people when you have never faced them before and you don’t even got a clue of what they’re running, your words quickly reveal what level of conversation I may get…no worth my time.

You are so mad, and it’s clear that you are an Ele who has problems with the Thief. You now try and mask that behind a veneer of logic, but you already tipped your hand. That’s why I called you out. I did not want to turn this into a “don’t nerf Ele, nerf Thief” point, which is what you are trying to do. There are plenty of those threads elsewhere, and I don’t care to get dragged into them. Great, you think that the current Ele sustain builds are somehow balanced. I play Ele and disagree, as do most other players who don’t play Ele. Now move along (and go practice).

Edit: Oh man, your post history is rich, and telling, and confirms that my analysis is spot on. There are so many nuggets in there to prove my point, but I just wanted to pick one from you…

The Lead Balance Dev plays Thief. His friend or next in line down the totem pole likely plays Ele.

Its not insanity, it is just Bias. Pure and simple. Developers are people with Bias. People in charge of multiple class balance that are specific class fans will 100% of the time favor that class in all development decisions. They do this subconsciously so there is no possible way to prevent it. Human nature is Human Nature.

Talk about bias… Seriously annoying when legitimate threads get deconstructed by kids on crusades. (Also, I think your are just flat wrong — Jon seems to main Warrior, and I usually see Chap on Necro… LOL.)

I don’t hate the downed state, but I don’t feel like it was designed for PvP. Just the way the whole system works (especially rallying from kills) seems like it was meant to make solo PvE more enjoyable, since you can feel the effects of almost dieing without actually having any repercussions or feeling like you lost, and then PvP was designed around the PvE mechanic. It feels like the only reason it exists in the first place is because of PvE, not because it is an improvement to PvP.

Other things that I think are anti-fun in PvP:

-glass/teamfight/bunker trinity is much less dynamic and interesting than the usual dps/control/healer meta in most mmos. Without healers positioning, target aquisition, and spike timing are all diminished in importance, and those are 3 of the primary things that give mmo pvp depth.
-Conquest sucks
-Visual noise from mesmer clones. Mesmer clones make teamfights look like clusterkittens.
-Too many skills that deal damage while simultaneously making you immune/evade/stealth and/or working as a gap closer
-Too many aoe skills
-Not enough really situational skills that are either amazing or useless depending on when you choose to use them
-Very few skills or situations that would encourage you to use crowd control on a target other than the one you’re damaging (like counter-spell the priest while killing the rogue)
-Conquest sucks
-The range of stat specialization possible is too wide. Glass cannons are too glassy, tanks are too tanky, and there is very little incentive to go “balanced” stats.

I’m ______So______ glad this game doesnt have any dedicated healers. Tol Barad with legendary Rogues on a killing streak while getting spamhealed by 4 Healers comes to mind.

nurt.5401:

I don’t hate the downed state, but I don’t feel like it was designed for PvP. Just the way the whole system works (especially rallying from kills) seems like it was meant to make solo PvE more enjoyable, since you can feel the effects of almost dieing without actually having any repercussions or feeling like you lost, and then PvP was designed around the PvE mechanic. It feels like the only reason it exists in the first place is because of PvE, not because it is an improvement to PvP.

Other things that I think are anti-fun in PvP:

-glass/teamfight/bunker trinity is much less dynamic and interesting than the usual dps/control/healer meta in most mmos. Without healers positioning, target aquisition, and spike timing are all diminished in importance, and those are 3 of the primary things that give mmo pvp depth.
-Conquest sucks
-Visual noise from mesmer clones. Mesmer clones make teamfights look like clusterkittens.
-Too many skills that deal damage while simultaneously making you immune/evade/stealth and/or working as a gap closer
-Too many aoe skills
-Not enough really situational skills that are either amazing or useless depending on when you choose to use them
-Very few skills or situations that would encourage you to use crowd control on a target other than the one you’re damaging (like counter-spell the priest while killing the rogue)
-Conquest sucks
-The range of stat specialization possible is too wide. Glass cannons are too glassy, tanks are too tanky, and there is very little incentive to go “balanced” stats.

That’s why Anet should have not touched the PvP system from GW1 but simply use it as a base, in GW1 there was no stealth non sense, all profession had almost same health and the main difference between professions was the armour.

I dont understand how the game has been out since August and so many people still dont understand why down state is necessary. I mean seriously, it is NOT a hard concept to grasp.

How many healers are running around in gw2? 0

How many of those healers are rezzing you? 0

Who can rez you when you are in downed state? Anyone

What is the point of downed state? To supplement the essential mechanic of rezzing that is usually left to healing archetypes which do not exist in this game.

OMG MIND BLOWN NO WAY OMG HOW WUT WHO OMG MY MIND

The downstate is of course necessary as is does fill an important role. However it is disliked by sooooo many people, probably cutting out a large number of potential players. As much as the downstate fills an important role, as it is currently implemented it is also hurting the game.

Now the question is can we takeout the aspects of the downed state that people don’t enjoy and replace it with something cool while keeping the same goal? It really seems like this hasn’t been given much thought considering the skills they gave most professions are just meant to be annoying, along with the rally mechanic. We need the downstate to be really fun and interesting to help players accept it. It is definitely not the case right now.

How about we define the actual purpose of a downed state first? Two sides same coin…

Heads: To give you a fighting chance once beaten, exploited in WvW by having greater numbers reinforcing the numbers game, utilised in dungeons as a clutch for the ridiculously high boss hp and plethora of one shot skills, similar principles in s/tPVP but more intrinsic to a fight.

Tails: Everybody and their grandma went “OSSSSUUUUUUUM” the first time they stuck a pole into a barely breathing body rendering it a corpse. Much epeen stroking results from stomping. Casuals and bloodthirst flock ten to a dozen to stomp anything insight buying time for their opponents to get away.

Personally the only time a downed state has been useful for me was in dungeons and to a lesser degree in WvW when facing even numbers or opponents that don’t apply constant offensive pressure.

I’ve never heard of anyone in-game saying they don’t like downed state.

It seems kind of silly to be standing and fighting a peak condition and then drop dead when 1 more HP is lost.

Personally I’m not a fan of finishers. They’re too easy. Killing a fighter should be a dirty, bitter fight to the finish, not a 1-button insta-kill. I’m kind of sad to see a good fight end because of 1 button and sometimes I prefer to do damage until health is gone. Some classes are easier to finish that way anyway.

And when a player is 99% of the way back to standing up, it should take something more to finish them than when they’re at 1%.

When both are downed, I find that really interesting.

Clark Skinner.4902:

When both are downed, I find that really interesting.

Really? You actually like sitting there pressing 1 for 20 seconds?

I don’t find being in downed state fun at all because it’s just a dumbed down version of normal fighting with all your options stripped away. I’d rather just watch the fight than press 1 over and over.

The way you do it does sound boring