Guild Wars 2

Yannir.4132:

Can we get like a moa trainer NPC into HotM? The guy turns you into a moa, and then you can go whack some golems moa-style. ^^

One of the big problems with moa is that people don’t know what to do with it. One of the PRO league guys even scored a Chieftain kill while moa’d.

True. I also don’t get it why when I cast emergency moa (see when my hp is ~500-1000) my opponent decides they have to run from me rather than hit me 3-4 times. It’s never going to work.

Moa on a 3 min cd is fine. Its the double back to back moa using CS that is not. And mesmers in a team fight with all that visual noise going around e.g. traps etc etc. yeah good luck seeing that moa coming.

And any team with half a brain that calls target (then moas that target) , enemy is dead on the first moa. Do again on second target. Thats 2 enemy dead. GG win mid fight. That 4v4 at mid becomes 4v2 in under 20 sec, meanwhile locking that player out of his skills.

Heck even soloq pugs know to focus the bird running around like a headless chicken.

as they said in the video simply remove CS effect on the moa elite and then no more back to back moas.

if i had a penny for everyime i won a game after losing initial mid fight

TIL: People actually think double moa is balanced.

Ghorman.1368:

Yannir.4132:

I honestly don’t think mesmers are going to see any big changes with this balance patch. Mesmers got hit by the nerfhammer hard last time around, I don’t see them targeting one class like that.

You might want to look at the current state of the thief.

As I said, thief is fine. It’s the powercreep of other professions that’s causing thieves to be low tier.

messiah.1908:

<snip>

i think every class should have at least 3 builds to play around . but atm there is only 1

This is the problem – there is ONLY condi, and it’s still just a vessel for a glorified Portal/Moa bot.

Try to play power, interrupt or use weapons like Focus or Offhand Sword and you may as well gg when faced with competent players.

If they’re going to nerf condi even more (it has been continually nerfed since the June 23rd patch anyway), then they’d better provide something for power and other mesmer playstyles.

Believe me I hate mindless shatter spam, but that’s the only efficient way to play mesmer now. It’s stupid.

Curunen.8729:

messiah.1908:

<snip>
i think every class should have at least 3 builds to play around . but atm there is only 1

This is the problem – there is ONLY condi, and it’s still just a vessel for a glorified Portal/Moa bot.

Try to play power, interrupt or use weapons like Focus or Offhand Sword and you may as well gg when faced with competent players.

If they’re going to nerf condi even more (it has been continually nerfed since the June 23rd patch anyway), then they’d better provide something for power and other mesmer playstyles.

Believe me I hate mindless shatter spam, but that’s the only efficient way to play mesmer now. It’s stupid.

Lol, interrupt build. That thing might as well be dead and buried with all the stab extra stab given out like candy. Stab for necros, extra stab for berserkers, on CC traits for rev and DH, stab on dodge for rev and engy. Think the only things it will work on is thieves and eles, maybe rangers if you outlast RaO.

Still it’s fun to see a scrapper ragequit when you kill them in a duel on power shatter.

apharma.3741:

Curunen.8729:

messiah.1908:

<snip>
i think every class should have at least 3 builds to play around . but atm there is only 1

This is the problem – there is ONLY condi, and it’s still just a vessel for a glorified Portal/Moa bot.

Try to play power, interrupt or use weapons like Focus or Offhand Sword and you may as well gg when faced with competent players.

If they’re going to nerf condi even more (it has been continually nerfed since the June 23rd patch anyway), then they’d better provide something for power and other mesmer playstyles.

Believe me I hate mindless shatter spam, but that’s the only efficient way to play mesmer now. It’s stupid.

Lol, interrupt build. That thing might as well be dead and buried with all the stab extra stab given out like candy. Stab for necros, extra stab for berserkers, on CC traits for rev and DH, stab on dodge for rev and engy. Think the only things it will work on is thieves and eles, maybe rangers if you outlast RaO.

Still it’s fun to see a scrapper ragequit when you kill them in a duel on power shatter.

lol, yeah this is the problem.

It’s easy to bandy around words like “meta” this and “meta” that, but so what – mesmer has kind of devolved into a homogenised, pretty boring overall playstyle plus one or two gimmicks (moa/portal).

I seriously want to use Focus again and be competitive – but it’s borderline useless right now, nevermind the HoT powercreep and outright replacement weapons like Shield…

@Curunen When was focus ever useful in pvp? Coz as far as I remember the meta Mesmer has mostly been sword/torch and greatsword in shatter or greatsword/staff in shatter? Did I miss something? Because, believe me I personally tried many many many times to create a build which would take advantage of focus skill 5 and the answer is that it will never be usable simply because in a pvp environment players move too fast whether it was pre-hot or pre-rework of all specialization lines

Mesmer has been the single most broken class for two seasons in a row. It is obvious that Mesmer will get nerfed. No surprise there.

style.6173:

Mesmer has been the single most broken class for two seasons in a row. It is obvious that Mesmer will get nerfed. No surprise there.

It’s the self-deprecating Mesmer “mains” who for some unknown reason ask for nerfs.

Moa is fine at 10 seconds and with the large wind up and blatant tell and how easily it is avoided, there needs to be risk/reward when using it.

Power Shatter needs a buff without buffing condi. idc what happens to condi but it should not die as a viable build.

flog.3485:

@Ross Bidle Honestly I am a mesmer main and I find the design of this class so awesome to play. All I am saying with my suggestions is that it feels dumb to double up on elite without having to pay much attention on the numbers of illusions that are up ;

Obviously there are some people who do know Mesmer on this forum XD

Anyway, it’s worth making the distinction that a double moa burst setup with no illusions (and as an extension, the wrong weapon set, and skills on CD) is far inferior to a double moa burst setup with a full line of illusions (for a full duration continuum split) where multiple shatter can be made with adjoining skills in tandem for maximum damage/effect.

There is a difference between just firing off Moa twice like some newb, and properly setting up illusions and using skills for maximum damage.

I am so disgusted… I feel like vomiting. How can they talk like that? Mesmer is going to get slam hammered again.

I believe those comments were scripted by ANET .

Ithilwen.1529:

I am so disgusted… I feel like vomiting. How can they talk like that? Mesmer is going to get slam hammered again.

I believe those comments were scripted by ANET .

What comments?

SupCutie and the other both claimed that Mesmer needed a nerf. I’m actually a bit in shock…

You can find it roughly 26 minutes into the video. It sounds very much like anet is planning to slam Mesmer hard.

This is really not the right move, anet.

Ithilwen.1529:

SupCutie and the other both claimed that Mesmer needed a nerf. I’m actually a bit in shock…

You can find it roughly 26 minutes into the video. It sounds very much like anet is planning to slam Mesmer hard.

Come on anet… I waited years for fixes on things like Illusionary Elasticity.. paid my dues as thief food, bought HoT twice out of hope for Chronomancer.. saw that utterly crushed..

You really don’t get how good Mesmer has been in season 1 and 2?

No I can’t say that I do.. Mesmer has “a” build and 2 tricks. The Pro League isn’t really relevant to day to day play.

I don’t find Mesmer excessively “good” in comparison to reaper, rev or druid.. nor scrapper for that matter.

People really just kind of freak out about the Moa thing… but that is a learn to play issue. Even if it was not an l2p issue, it wouldn’t justify slamming an already weak class.

Ithilwen.1529:

No I can’t say that I do.. Mesmer has “a” build and 2 tricks. The Pro League isn’t really relevant to day to day play.

I don’t find Mesmer excessively “good” in comparison to reaper, rev or druid.. nor scrapper for that matter.

People really just kind of freak out about the Moa thing… but that is a learn to play issue. Even if it was not an l2p issue, it wouldn’t justify slamming an already weak class.

Yeah l2dodge the 10 second daze in the middle of all the visual garbage flying around.

Ithilwen.1529:

I am so disgusted… I feel like vomiting. How can they talk like that? Mesmer is going to get slam hammered again.

I believe those comments were scripted by ANET .

oh yeeee this is what I WAS WAITING FOR u still in sapphire? that a l2p issue too?

Ruru.1302:

Ithilwen.1529:

I am so disgusted… I feel like vomiting. How can they talk like that? Mesmer is going to get slam hammered again.

I believe those comments were scripted by ANET .

oh yeeee this is what I WAS WAITING FOR

They were slam hammered so hard last time that they’re still meta.

No, actually I made Ruby.. after buying a Razer gaming keypad for my left hand. Thanks for that advice to some of the forum posters.

As to dodging when the visual mess is up… well it’s one of the longest casts in the game. How is dodging moa in the middle of the visual garbage harder than dodging everything else? With the extreme cast time it’s easier to dodge than say DH jump>trap bomb.

Mesmers are godly in PvP atm with their condi bomb + Moa + Mobility (portal). Anyone who says otherwise has clearly not seen the class’ potential. Its one of the two classes (other one being scrapper), when played well, can carry an entire team.

IMO, moa duration should be nerfed to 5s and CD reduced to 120s. Conditions on shatters should also nerfed.

In addition to this, why the hell does Signet of humility bypass stability? That makes this skill even more overpowered.

How is stability relevant in this case? It’s not a knock, launch etc. As to “condi bomb,” it requires setup and skill to deliver. The reaper can deliver similar condi without as much set up.. DH can deliver similar damage with a trap bomb, In fact most classes can create comparable damage in one manner or another.

None of the other classes require 3 live “soap bubble” clones that die almost instantly to damage in order to set up there burst.

I detect a desire to “get” Mesmers here.

flog.3485:

@Curunen When was focus ever useful in pvp? Coz as far as I remember the meta Mesmer has mostly been sword/torch and greatsword in shatter or greatsword/staff in shatter? Did I miss something? Because, believe me I personally tried many many many times to create a build which would take advantage of focus skill 5 and the answer is that it will never be usable simply because in a pvp environment players move too fast whether it was pre-hot or pre-rework of all specialization lines.

Before players got so much free cc and anti cc, and also before Into the Void had the 1s ICD on it (which at the time may have been relevant but right now should be reduced to at most 0.5s) you could pull and control enemies into shatter combos with the iWarden, together with its high damage and when it was feasible to trait. Granted this was a long time ago.

Sword/Focus + Staff or GS was powerful.

But now Shield does everything Focus does better, it’s a joke. The measly pull on curtain is passively nullified by so much bullkitten and iWarden can’t keep up with the powercreep/pace of the game.

Add to that they decided to have Restorative Illusions compete with Warden’s Feedback means it is suicide to trait Focus anymore.

I don’t know when anyone decided Focus should be a pve only weapon but I totally disagree with this concept given that it was one of our best weapons in the past. I would like to see it have it’s time in the limelight again.

Are you for real? Signet of humility transforms the victim into something very weak for 10 seconds and you’re implying that its not a crowd control skill?

Condi bomb on mes doesn’t require any setup just like reapers and all condi spammers. I will give you an example of a skill that actually requires a far better setup than mesmers: Hundres blades. Even then it doesn’t land all 8 hits most of the time.

Ithilwen.1529:

How is stability relevant in this case? It’s not a knock, launch etc. As to “condi bomb,” it requires setup and skill to deliver. The reaper can deliver similar condi without as much set up.. DH can deliver similar damage with a trap bomb, In fact most classes can create comparable damage in one manner or another.

None of the other classes require 3 live “soap bubble” clones that die almost instantly to damage in order to set up there burst.

I detect a desire to “get” Mesmers here.

It feels like mesmer is the only class you think you are good at, hence why you are defending it so vehemently.

I’m not even someone you can pull the l2p card on – I can play mesmer at a very high level , and I’m more than willing to admit that this class is mega busted. It’s absolutely disgusting that mesmer remains in it’s current state.

I play Mesmer because I am fascinated with the concept. This is true of GW1 and GW2.
I’ve gone so far as to study the writings of Mesmer and his healing method.

When I started playing class, the huge confusion nerf had just happened. Senior Mesmers advised not even bothering to engage a warrior or necro. Damage was too poor and a warrior with stun > 100 blades was near certain death. Necros too could count on an easy kill.

I lived with being a virtually guaranteed kill for thieves. Skills like Illusionary Elasticity were broken and left broken literally for a year or more.

An anet executive complained on stream about being killed by a clone death Mesmer. That build was very much in keeping with the spirit of the GW1 Mesmer and was my favorite. It was entirely removed from the game.

I bought HoT, (twice,) on the hope that I could have fun as a Chronomancer. That has been evicerated.

So, yes I’m very defensive about Mesmer. There have been years of being trash tier. I want to be able to play my favorite class with a fair chance of winning.

-edit-

If in fact you are a strong Mesmer player; I would remind you that not everyone is. What would be a balancing setback for you might easily make the class unplayable for another.

I met a player in HoTM whom I knew from City of Heroes where he used to lead elite missions in the Rikti zone. This player is highly skilled and can jump on just about any class and do well. Yes, with him at the controls, any given class is OP. That does not however mean that class needs a nerf.

I’d urge folks to remember that normal PvP is not Pro League. Pro League players think and respond in a significantly different way. Balancing for the needs of the elite will of necessity create balance problems for the majority.

Ithilwen.1529:

I play Mesmer because I am fascinated with the concept. This is true of GW1 and GW2.
I’ve gone so far as to study the writings of Mesmer and his healing method.

When I started playing class, the huge confusion nerf had just happened. Senior Mesmers advised not even bothering to engage a warrior or necro. Damage was too poor and a warrior with stun > 100 blades was near certain death. Necros too could count on an easy kill.

I lived with being a virtually guaranteed kill for thieves. Skills like Illusionary Elasticity were broken and left broken literally for a year or more.

An anet executive complained on stream about being killed by a clone death Mesmer. That build was very much in keeping with the spirit of the GW1 Mesmer and was my favorite. It was entirely removed from the game.

I bought HoT, (twice,) on the hope that I could have fun as a Chronomancer. That has been evicerated.

So, yes I’m very defensive about Mesmer. There have been years of being trash tier. I want to be able to play my favorite class with a fair chance of winning.

-edit-

If in fact you are a strong Mesmer player; I would remind you that not everyone is. What would be a balancing setback for you might easily make the class unplayable for another.

I met a player in HoTM whom I knew from City of Heroes where he used to lead elite missions in the Rikti zone. This player is highly skilled and can jump on just about any class and do well. Yes, with him at the controls, any given class is OP. That does not however mean that class needs a nerf.

I’d urge folks to remember that normal PvP is not Pro League. Pro League players think and respond in a significantly different way. Balancing for the needs of the elite will of necessity create balance problems for the majority.

“What would be a balancing setback for you might easily make the class unplayable for another.”

Literally Thief life. The difference between a mediocre thief and a great thief is universes, and we’re supposed to care that mesmer is falling in the same hole?

“I’d urge folks to remember that normal PvP is not Pro League. Pro League players think and respond in a significantly different way. Balancing for the needs of the elite will of necessity create balance problems for the majority.”

Where do we stop and say L2P? Why do we stop at your skill level, because you’re “normal”?

Hey Ithilwen, I made you a picture.

After quitting (more or less) GW2 I came to muck around in S2 to investigate what I’d gleamed was happening off the forums. After a two month break, played a little over the last 9 days. Decided to just run Mesmer. No staff (looser weapon XD), scepter/sword, sword/shield :D

Anyway, there’s room for balance tweaks on Chrono (and major redesigns to all the stuff that just no longer works). But when you guys try to make your points, you overstate your case with so much hyperbole it gets washed away by the hubris.

Hi Ross. Yes, I have acknowledged in the past that you are a skilled Mesmer player and will do so again now for the record: “Ross you are a skilled Mesmer player.”

I’d contend that you are an outlier as opposed to a majority player, however. How’s B&S treating you?

Ithilwen.1529:

Hi Ross. Yes, I have acknowledged in the past that you are a skilled Mesmer player and will do so again now for the record: “Ross you are a skilled Mesmer player.”

I’d contend that you are an outlier as opposed to a majority player, however. How’s B&S treating you?

Skill, good, average, mediocre, bad. It’s really difficult to make sense of these terms and their definitions from any one persons perspective.

It’s easier to look at the class and ask, what should it be. Instead of trying to create a class to suite all players at any level, have the class there to fulfill the needs of various levels of skill. That’s how the game used to be. Mesmer was a difficult class that required a certain level of skill and commitment to play effectively (though has certainly been hamstrung by bugs, poor balance choices, and faulty design over the years), while Warrior was always recognized as an any-mans beginner class. One thing these balance discussions seem to have forgotten is that aspect of skill floors, ceilings, etc. The whole ship is on fire, while also sinking XD

Anyway, B&S? Pshhh, I have a life man.

I think the problem with mesmers right now is that they don’t have many other options other than condi chrono with portal+moa. As a mesmer main who got to legendary this season, it was rare to see a power chronomancer, and they were so easy to shrug off it was basically like playing 5v4.

so they nerfing double MOA? gooooooddd riddance :P

Has it been confirmed that they are nerfing the double moa Chronomancer? Would suck if they do.

Ithilwen.1529:

No, actually I made Ruby.. after buying a Razer gaming keypad for my left hand. Thanks for that advice to some of the forum posters.

As to dodging when the visual mess is up… well it’s one of the longest casts in the game. How is dodging moa in the middle of the visual garbage harder than dodging everything else? With the extreme cast time it’s easier to dodge than say DH jump>trap bomb.

just because you can’t play mesmer 1 handed out of sapphire doesn’t mean the class doesn’t deserve nerfing.

you say balance shouldn’t revolve around pro league skill level, but I rather it be balanced around that than the bottom 5%, 1 handed skill clicking players.