Guild Wars 2

Minstrel’s sacrifices every ounce of offensive capability a player has to turn it into the first truly “pure support” amulet to be introduced to the game.
I am not surprised this has generated a considerable level of QQ. Solo queuers will rotate into a Minstrel’s player standing on a point capped in his favor and call it broken….but that simply isn’t a good rotation or a smart play.

So let’s look at all the things a class or even a team gives up by taking a Minstrel’s player. I’ll mostly look at this from a Team Play perspective such as ESL or the upcoming Pro Leagues.
We’ll see that a Minstrel’s Amulet actually makes a team’s rotations less flexible, as well as reducing the comeback potential a team has when it is down (effectively the game becomes a 4v5 as a Minstrel’s player brings nothing to a fight where the cap is in the opponent’s favor).

The bruiser role has been in every significant team comp for the past year, particularly d/d ele. Not only did it have the sustain to 1v2 most classes, it had the might-stacking to turn it into the damage equivalent of a Zerker class. Its utility was simply too high.
With the xpac, we have Scrappers and Reapers taking that role. Classes that are not only incredibly tanky, but have the potential to output damage at the level of a Zerker class.
Even with 25 might stacks, Minstrel’kittens like a wet noodle. Its presence in games and fights is purely defensive. From an offensive standpoint, a Minstrel’s Amulet is a liability as it has no ability to take a point or win a team fight. It simply stalls and protects captured points.

So what are Minstrel’s Strengths? Let’s assume it can fill the 1v2 role better than a Bruiser class like Reaper or Scrapper by giving up its entire offensive potential. It also won’t win any 1v1s where a Scrapper or Reaper might. What we’re left with is a ton of Healing to make up the difference in team fights.

Druid in particular has some incredible synergy with the Minstrel’s Amulet as the raw healing potential of Celestial Avatar scales quite well. A Minstrel’s Druid can easily pick their entire team’s health pools up to 100% in a matter of seconds with Avatar.
I did not think there would be a Support that gave Bunker Guard a run for its money, but the outgoing heal potential of Druid certainly does that (though you’ll be missing the constant stability from a Bunker Guard).

So a quick list of Minstrel’s Pros and Cons.
Pros: Incredible healing in team fights, ability to last longer than a typical Bruiser in an outnumbered situation.

Cons: No offensive pressure, a liability to their team when not on a point capped in their favor.

From a utility perspective, I think most teams will still choose to bring Bruisers over Minstrel’s as it makes rotations more flexible and reduces the snowball effect of losing a fight. We will see what direction the Meta takes, while Minstrel’s Amulet is no doubt a very strong support, it is unclear whether that will be enough to warrant teams bringing them over a pair of 25 might stack bruisers.

Firebird.8324:

Alekt.5803:

I want it removed mostly for an enjoyment reason. It is not okay to ruin the game mode because someone wanted to play extrememly tanky. I am not talking about ESL or anything. I am talking about regular games played by new players or advanced players who wants to play casually. Those players are needed for an healthy game: Minstrel amulet will only be good at pushing them out.

I am a somewhat high mmr player. Personnally, it just sucks the fun out of the game when some guy decided by selecting one amulet that they will not die.

Just imagine this new guy who is not a complete newbie to the genre. He (or she) thought that maybe he could try out this game he heard about called Guild Wars 2. He sees a couple of minstrels users after a few games of climbing up the MMR, is bored to death and just uninstall. Minstrel is a very dangerous amulet. Well, not to your mesmer, revenant, elementalist… Minstrel is dangerous to the players.

I edited my message to pass a more constructive point. Yes, I was kittened off because I just played against one. We did not lose, but it was boring. And, what do we do about boring games?…

I am an extremely high mmr player on team Radioactive where I actively played in 50 or so ESLs multiple tournaments, etc.

When it comes right down to it, your argument is “it is not fun to play against”, but you forget to consider the fact that it Is fun to play a minstrel build. Saying “it’s very dangerous to new players” is the dumbest thing I’ve heard because new players hate dying, I think they would Much rather face something that can’t kill them rather than get one shot by a DH, Rampage War, hammer rev, etc.

Also, if someone wants to make a build that is specifically for tanking and healing allies that should be allowed and encouraged so comps can exist with high damage roles backed up by support rather than 5 bruisers running around spamming all of their skills.

I hope you realize that you do Not speak for new players, that everyone has their individual likes and dislikes, when it comes right down to it, you Personally had a bad experience fighting a minstrel build and not being able to kill it (probably for 10 min on a point capped in the minstrel guy’s favor like a kitten). You had a weak argument as to why you PERSONALLY think it should be taken out of pvp and tried to speak for the new people coming into this game to achieve your own ends.

I personally think that the minstrel build is very balanced specifically because it can’t kill anyone and shouldn’t be able to, that is the drawback, that is why it is impossible to run more than 2 (which is pushing it) in an actual comp.

Now, to leave with some dignity, please go and edit your post by deleting anything involving anyone other than yourself and add “in my own opinion, I think minstrel amulet should be deleted because I couldn’t 1v1 it” not garbage like “new players are quitting the game because of minstrel amulet, oh and here’s my published data and findings concerning it”.

I am speaking from the perspective of myself if I did not care too much about the game because I like it. If I was new to the game and saw this, as a F2P player, I tell you that I would get back to LoL or something like that. At least there, Soraka gets looked at.

Thankfully, I am asking to imagine, to visualize a new player; and for that, I do not believe that I talk for new player. You certainly do not speak for them either. Yeah, I caught you there speaking for the new players:

New players hate dying, I think they would Much rather face something that can’t kill them rather than get one shot by a DH, Rampage War, hammer rev, etc.

You are speaking about arguments, I am talking about how bored I am when I see them. You are thinking that I am bad enough not to try outrotating Minstrel, that I fight them on a capped point. I only hope you’ll be keeping the point neutralized all game for the next 10 games in your next Solo Queue.

I did not forget that it may be fun to the player playing the bunker. I just did not see the value to talk about that. It surely is fun to use scorpion wire in skyhammer. It is probably fun to use a aimbot or wallhack.

You are telling me that I am complaining to achieve my own goals.

You had a weak argument as to why you PERSONALLY think it should be taken out of pvp and tried to speak for the new people coming into this game to achieve your own ends.

So did you guys in Radioactive used Minstrel in tournaments? I certainly do not have much to gain from playing that game. I am not an ESL player that can win money.

You want minstrels removed because you find it boring to fight, I want it to stay because I find it revolutionizing for the bunker role, for far too long have bunker guards only had 13k health and have been forced to take soldier runes for vitality.

What you’re actually saying in this post “Anet, get rid of minstrels amulet and screw over everyone who thinks that they are incredibly useful”.

Now, back when celestial amulet ruled pvp I made many posts advocating its removal, but NEVER because I “found it boring to fight against” but because it made it so pvp was taken over by celestial d/d eles and celestial engies. There was little build diversity and everyone found it to be overpowered because of its great scaling with might.

Minstrel amulet is balanced because it does not do damage, thus limiting the amount of them to a small number per team. If you do, perchance, get more than two on the team you are facing in unranked, thank Anet for the easy win. The other team, after losing, will be dissuaded from running that many in the future and players using the minstrel build will run other builds to win, one of those great self-fixing problems.

In the end, we all have our own opinions on subjects, the difference is most people don’t make QQ posts and try and ruin the game for everyone else. In the future, just play a different game unless you intend to learn all sides of an argument.

From a bunker Guard point of view I’m actually glad they added Minstrel; it gives a lot more options with builds. Before it was Cleric, Solider, or Cele; most of the time it was Cleric, and since Cleric has zero vit and Guard already has the lowest HP pool. This forced you to pretty much run Solider runes at all times. Now that Minstrel is here you can actually run other rune sets and builds. Bunker Guard with Cleric already did pitiful damage, even if you used intel to get crits. So might as well just give up that power and take stats that are actually useful. For instance, combing Minstrel with more boon specific runes can give you up to 67% boon duration; you can get 87% if you use the staff trait. This is a huge buff considering how boon centric Guards are.

Druid gets one viable build and everyone is screaming nerf.

Here’s what you need to know:
- it’s like a dd ele, without the damage and roaming capabilities
- if you burst him after he leaves CA form, he’s most likely dead
- if you use a condi build, the druid will most likely not withstand the pressure, as he doesn’t have access to much cleanse outside of CA
- if you can’t kill him, just stroll away, he can’t kill you either.
- while he’s in CA, he deals almost no damage (except for skill 5 that even a cripple could dodge), so just be chill and don’t waste your skills on him, try to heal if necessary, manage your cooldowns and give him a huge burst once he gets out of CA

People seriously need to stop screaming nerf to everything they have a hard time against. There are builds that counter other builds. Who would have guessed? Learn to adapt and pick your fights.

I see nothing wrong here. Bunkers can bunker. DPSers can DPS. I know its frustrating to get your allies to work with you in focusing a target, but that’s how a tank SHOULD work. They SHOULD be able to take a ton of damage and kitten you guys off enough to want to burst them down.

Tbh, I think anet was aiming for this ever since 6/23. They just felt, for some odd reason, that it would be necessary to let the changes out in droplets instead of one fat package, but I don’t blame them since people were starting to get bored.

Nier.8741:

Hint: The problem is the class, not the amulet.

Because let’s face it, the same 8 year old can play it logic can apply to ANY ranger build because it’s just an easy class in PvP no matter what.

That’s why we’ve seen such a huge number of Ranger in high tier pvp and comps over the last few years.

bunker guardian is already very tanky but still can be kill i have no complain bunker have it place in conquest pvp. But for druid to take on 3-4 person on a point is something seriously wrong. Please look into it

princode.2750:

bunker guardian is already very tanky but still can be kill i have no complain bunker have it place in conquest pvp. But for druid to take on 3-4 person on a point is something seriously wrong. Please look into it

Bring some CC… unlike Guardians Druid don’t have good access to stability.

Druid is not the topic here, Minstrel is. Try to bring down Minstrel Chronomencer with shield, Minstrel Ele, Minstrel revenant etc… Almost any profession can create a super tnky build with Minstrel that can hold on point vs 2-3 playes for good amount of time.

Surely you could ignore them and try to out rotate/ focus other players/points in conquest and focus the npcs in stronghold? It’s not like they’ll be able to hurt and stop you.

Disclaimer – I haven’t played much pvp since HoT so not yet faced this minstrel build, due to finishing off the pve zones first.

The amulet is not the problem, it’s always the CLASS. Ranger would be more balanced if it wasn’t an evade spam piece of garbage and it has controllable more rewarding pets.

In general, stats in this game need to be toned down from such extremes like berserker or minstrel. A fights output should be mainly influenced by timed abilities rather than raw stats.

There needs to be a univeral counter to bunkers just like downed state is a univeral counter to zerkers.

Expect two druids from Radioactive in next ESL Kappa

Nier.8741:

Alekt.5803:

It’s just not fun to fight undying Druids that a 8 year old child could play.

Also, nothing is going to change even if they remove minstrel. They can just go back to clerics and they will be the same. Try again.

Hint: The problem is the class, not the amulet.

Because let’s face it, the same 8 year old can play it logic can apply to ANY ranger build because it’s just an easy class in PvP no matter what.

Yea right because ranger has always been super OP for the last 3 years and you see 3-5 them on every pro team. Ranger does have a low skill floor, and that doesnt make it op. if that was the case people would be crying about warrior too.

The problem is people refuse to accept they were outplayed and don’t know counter play(see condi, posion, cc, burst) and cry for kittens.

Firebird.8324:

Alekt.5803:

I want it removed mostly for an enjoyment reason. It is not okay to ruin the game mode because someone wanted to play extrememly tanky. I am not talking about ESL or anything. I am talking about regular games played by new players or advanced players who wants to play casually. Those players are needed for an healthy game: Minstrel amulet will only be good at pushing them out.

I am a somewhat high mmr player. Personnally, it just sucks the fun out of the game when some guy decided by selecting one amulet that they will not die.

Just imagine this new guy who is not a complete newbie to the genre. He (or she) thought that maybe he could try out this game he heard about called Guild Wars 2. He sees a couple of minstrels users after a few games of climbing up the MMR, is bored to death and just uninstall. Minstrel is a very dangerous amulet. Well, not to your mesmer, revenant, elementalist… Minstrel is dangerous to the players.

I edited my message to pass a more constructive point. Yes, I was kittened off because I just played against one. We did not lose, but it was boring. And, what do we do about boring games?…

I am an extremely high mmr player on team Radioactive where I actively played in 50 or so ESLs multiple tournaments, etc.

When it comes right down to it, your argument is “it is not fun to play against”, but you forget to consider the fact that it Is fun to play a minstrel build. Saying “it’s very dangerous to new players” is the dumbest thing I’ve heard because new players hate dying, I think they would Much rather face something that can’t kill them rather than get one shot by a DH, Rampage War, hammer rev, etc.

Also, if someone wants to make a build that is specifically for tanking and healing allies that should be allowed and encouraged so comps can exist with high damage roles backed up by support rather than 5 bruisers running around spamming all of their skills.

I hope you realize that you do Not speak for new players, that everyone has their individual likes and dislikes, when it comes right down to it, you Personally had a bad experience fighting a minstrel build and not being able to kill it (probably for 10 min on a point capped in the minstrel guy’s favor like a kitten). You had a weak argument as to why you PERSONALLY think it should be taken out of pvp and tried to speak for the new people coming into this game to achieve your own ends.

I personally think that the minstrel build is very balanced specifically because it can’t kill anyone and shouldn’t be able to, that is the drawback, that is why it is impossible to run more than 2 (which is pushing it) in an actual comp.

Now, to leave with some dignity, please go and edit your post by deleting anything involving anyone other than yourself and add “in my own opinion, I think minstrel amulet should be deleted because I couldn’t 1v1 it” not garbage like “new players are quitting the game because of minstrel amulet, oh and here’s my published data and findings concerning it”.

You, I like you.

Eurantien.4632:

Should probably remove this amulet and tone down druid blinds.

This.

I’m not even surprised radioactive is defending this amulet lol.

stop with these elaborated arguments and pretty phrases, we just want this to be removed because it’s stupid, it’s like anet telling you to go and sit down in a point.

“We’re aware of the issue with bunker builds and minstrels, fyi” Grouch the man.

The boon duration stat (concentration) does not even work at the moment and people are already complaining. That’s gonna be fun with +37.33% boon duration =)

Boom. Done:

Several PvP build components have been removed in order to promote healthy gameplay:
Removed Minstrel Amulet. Anyone who has purchased this amulet will be refunded their gold.
Removed Rune of the Ogre.
Removed Rune of the Lich.
Removed Rune of the Pirate.

Anet is on their game with their post-HoT patches. :p

wow anet acting quickly, best day ever.

Rune of the Lich needed to go for a while. Glad that’s gone. Same with Ogre and Pirate, those pet runes were cancer. What were the stats on the minstrel amulet?

heheheheehehe rip radioactive cancer comp

butch.8136:

Removed Minstrel Amulet. Anyone who has purchased this amulet will be refunded their gold.

I was going to say, they better refund me my gold. Since I bought it to test around with in different builds.
Although, druid builds are just going to go celestial/cleric now. Since that actually was the option Rangers had picked out first, then they added minstrel.

Hubris.7436:

heheheheehehe rip radioactive cancer comp

tarcheg.4872:

The boon duration stat (concentration) does not even work at the moment and people are already complaining. That’s gonna be fun with +37.33% boon duration =)

Oh irony. Removed before they even fixed that. Guess you wont get boon duration now unless you are a condition build :/

It will be missed back to cele it is.

and now remove dd celestial eles too pls not fun how they can tank against 2 to 3 without problem
edit sry just venting some frustation
why are they so keen about fixing tanky stuff but dont do anything about completly overpowered burst dmg stuff :-( and what about “play like you want to play” there are so many cheesy build you just have to play if you want to compete I dont get it sadface