Guild Wars 2

Flytrap.8075:

Their official stance is that this is a form of horizontal progression and does not give players any meaningful advantage over other players.

I disagree, but what do I know.

That excuse made me laugh quite a bit.

Take Elementalist for example. They are keeping the balance changes to “a minimum”, beyond the changes to Runes and the new traits. As it stands right now, Ele isn’t that good, right? So, basically, Ele’s best hope is that one of the new grandmaster traits is OP enough to carry them. If one is…

Whelp, hello there new player. Guess your ele sucks lol GG

“No disadvantage”

Just excuses. Same thing with PvP’s infinite wardrobe now costing us charges.

Meh. They can’t even be bothered to act like they aren’t taking us for a ride: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well. As these additional skills and traits are added, they’ll be automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP just like all existing skills/traits work today.

kitten. How the PVPer should earn hundreds of golds with 30s per match at its best?

somsom.5201:

IF they truly are accountbound, then I don’t see the big fuss.

It’s a relatively small amount to spend for something being unlocked FOREVER.

Yes, PvP in the past did not reward anywhere near the amount of gold/SP that other forms of the game did, but that is hopefully going to change.

The only people truly with a stake here are those who are new to the game, as they will have little money/hardly any SP to spend on these new traits and amulets. Some may say, “well, they should focus on the core of the game first”, and they wouldn’t be wrong, but I think any kind of system that limits build diversity, no matter how small, isn’t the correct approach.

tl;dr: It’s not that expensive for people who actively play, but for new players it’s going to suck a bit.

Amulet are account bound. Traits are not, but since a lot of people seem to believe gw1 was the great CORPG ever and it had a worst system, I am sure after the initial QQ it will be fine.

Traits are not account bound, so if you play multiple toons either go do PvE or are you screwed.

It will limit build diversity as much as any game with an unlock system will, so it is not setting any real precedent other than that players in NA/EU are used to the old system. Since I am assuming these changes are more for the Chinese market, it wont impact them as much as it will impact the players here.

garethh.3518:

Hahahahahahahhahahah
They are adding gold cost to SPvP amulets?

That’s a terrible idea.
That means the million~ PvP’ers that left, the players that didn’t have much gold because PvP never gave gold… those guys are going to have even less will to come back, I mean since GW2 is a game largely won or lost by playing the right top-tier/cheese specs…

Holy kitten.
Sure more unlocks is more incentive to keep playing the game, it’s almost a decent idea.. but turning next to everything into an unlock just discourages people from coming back….

Old players coming back isn’t the intention here. the goal is to bring in the majority of the fanbase aka PvE side to attempt PvP. There is literally no reason to bother trying to please the older players since it cost more and since they are usually the first to make a big QQ thread and storm off for good.

It seems all these changes are mainly to have a solid foundation when the game launches in the biggest market in the world, China and significantly less about bring back players like yourself into the game. Even at sPvP peak, I doubt it was high enough for them to be actively marketing to bring them back.

tl;dr
they are not trying to bring you back. They are trying to big it up in China. We were just along the ride for it.

Katran.9186:

kitten. How the PVPer should earn hundreds of golds with 30s per match at its best?

And how kittened will new players be when they enter a PvP match only to realise everyone else has more stuff than they do, and they’re at a default disadvantage in terms of access to in-game equipment..

YOU HAVE TO SPEND GOLD TO BE GOOD NOOB………

Stupid change is stupid, but then again I never expect much from Anet after beta period where they praised Gw2 eSport so highly, and here we are.. nothing happened.

clint.5681:

Why do we have to pay for things that was free before

They weren’t free before because they weren’t available before.

Also, people are forgetting that not only do you earn gold in sPvP, but you’ll also be getting loot bag stuff including things like crafting mats that can be sold for gold, so pure sPvPers will be earning more gold than before.

Puro.8196:

Katran.9186:

kitten. How the PVPer should earn hundreds of golds with 30s per match at its best?

And how kittened will new players be when they enter a PvP match only to realise everyone else has more stuff than they do, and they’re at a default disadvantage in terms of access to in-game equipment..

YOU HAVE TO SPEND GOLD TO BE GOOD NOOB………

Stupid change is stupid, but then again I never expect much from Anet after beta period where they praised Gw2 eSport so highly, and here we are.. nothing happened.

Nah, I’m okay with being new player and getting less. The thing is – new player has no ways to efficiently earn gold. Moreover – spending it all for PvP – oh wow.

In GW1 we had Balthazar points to unlock stuff. In GW2 we had glory system until it had been reaped out from the game and then gold injected instead. What the

TainoFuerte.8136:

Flytrap.8075:

Their official stance is that this is a form of horizontal progression and does not give players any meaningful advantage over other players.

I disagree, but what do I know.

That excuse made me laugh quite a bit.

Take Elementalist for example. They are keeping the balance changes to “a minimum”, beyond the changes to Runes and the new traits. As it stands right now, Ele isn’t that good, right? So, basically, Ele’s best hope is that one of the new grandmaster traits is OP enough to carry them. If one is…

Whelp, hello there new player. Guess your ele sucks lol GG

“No disadvantage”

Just excuses. Same thing with PvP’s infinite wardrobe now costing us charges.

Meh. They can’t even be bothered to act like they aren’t taking us for a ride: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well. As these additional skills and traits are added, they’ll be automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP just like all existing skills/traits work today.

That last paragraph encompasses a lot of the problem I have with ANET. There is NO transparency because they say they risk being wrong or unable to deliver, yet they still end up going back on their word.

So, where another company is an open book and some info turns out to be false (making it a small % of incorrect info), Anet provides little info and some still turns out being false, making it a significant percentage of the info we’re given.

Katran.9186:

Nah, I’m okay with being new player and getting less.

You are missing the point completely.

Competitive balance = equality, for instance in Counter-Strike there are no one with a stronger AWP than you, or for instance in Dota2 there are no one with a more powerful Zeus than you, or a better Rapier..

Casual balance = Based off of unlocking access to in-game equipment, for instance League of Legends where you are forced to unlock in-game content to play with the same access to in-game equipment as the professionals(not that Gw2 has pros lol), this is a time sink and only made to make people feel a false sense of accomplishment, because there’s no real accomplishment in playing 10 games to earh 3g to unlock something, it’s just a time sink.

Competitive balance is the model most suited for Gw2 since it has been this way since beta, changing it half-way through almost makes me want to get a refund for my money, because I bought Gw2 for the PVP ONLY, because it was competitively viable, something other games like AO or WoW failed horribly at, now.. Arenanet has failed as well.

Puro.8196:

Katran.9186:

Nah, I’m okay with being new player and getting less.

You are missing the point completely.

Casual balance = Based off of unlocking access to in-game equipment, for instance

For instance GW1. Which I’m okay with. Quack-quack, call me a duck.

Keep in mind that you can also unlock the traits by doing other content in GW2. You don’t have to spend 3 Gold and some trait points etc… to unlock it.

Based on the Dev Stream (Only one was seen) but you could unlock one of the Grand Master Traits for a Ranger by pushing for Arah by killing the Risen Wizard.

Yes it is some of the PvE content and it does essentially require you to run all the way to Cursed Shore with a level 80… but it does not cost Gold or Skill points. So it could essentially be a barrier for some of the people that play exclusively sPvP. Just keep in mind that you can get it for free by completely PvE events.

So basically pay to win in PvP

Katran.9186:

Puro.8196:

Katran.9186:

Nah, I’m okay with being new player and getting less.

You are missing the point completely.

Casual balance = Based off of unlocking access to in-game equipment, for instance

Good, but you wouldn’t be ok with it if it was completely changed 1 year after release when you’ve bought one game with a certain competitive balance, and then it’s removed to make way for casual balance, as a competitive player this is a deal-breaker.

For instance GW1. Which I’m okay with. Quack-quack, call me a duck.

Puro.8196:

Katran.9186:

Nah, I’m okay with being new player and getting less.

You are missing the point completely.

Competitive balance = equality, for instance in Counter-Strike there are no one with a stronger AWP than you, or for instance in Dota2 there are no one with a more powerful Zeus than you, or a better Rapier..

Casual balance = Based off of unlocking access to in-game equipment, for instance League of Legends where you are forced to unlock in-game content to play with the same access to in-game equipment as the professionals(not that Gw2 has pros lol), this is a time sink and only made to make people feel a false sense of accomplishment, because there’s no real accomplishment in playing 10 games to earh 3g to unlock something, it’s just a time sink.

Competitive balance is the model most suited for Gw2 since it has been this way since beta, changing it half-way through almost makes me want to get a refund for my money, because I bought Gw2 for the PVP ONLY, because it was competitively viable, something other games like AO or WoW failed horribly at, now.. Arenanet has failed as well.

They failed because they lack the resources to simply split spvp and the rest, so balance allways goes down the drain, and spvp gets pushed to last on the list since no one plays it because it blows and the ones that play dont spend money on the store

Zylonite.5913:

So basically pay to win in PvP

Yes.

Haven’t people been complaining about how the PvP in GW1 was superior in every way to GW2?

And yet now when they are basically adding part of what was in GW1 PvP (paying currency to unlock skills/item) it is the worst decision ever?
There is no pleasing some people.

Puro.8196:

Katran.9186:

Puro.8196:

Katran.9186:

Nah, I’m okay with being new player and getting less.

You are missing the point completely.

Casual balance = Based off of unlocking access to in-game equipment, for instance

Good, but you wouldn’t be ok with it if it was completely changed 1 year after release when you’ve bought one game with a certain competitive balance, and then it’s removed to make way for casual balance, as a competitive player this is a deal-breaker.

For instance GW1. Which I’m okay with. Quack-quack, call me a duck.

Yeah, well that’s right. Changing the system after one and a half year is a very weird decision.

Ugruk.4069:

They failed because they lack the resources to simply split spvp and the rest, so balance allways goes down the drain, and spvp gets pushed to last on the list since no one plays it because it blows and the ones that play dont spend money on the store

You’re saying they lack resources to split SPvP and the rest, but since beta SPvP HAS been split from WvW and PvE, so I am not sure what you’re getting at.

Saying no one plays SPvP is just a flat out lie though.

lordkrall.7241:

Haven’t people been complaining about how the PvP in GW1 was superior in every way to GW2?

And yet now when they are basically adding part of what was in GW1 PvP (paying currency to unlock skills/item) it is the worst decision ever?
There is no pleasing some people.

Where is codex arena? GvG? Capture the flag? Any other PvP mode?
Where is build diversity? Tons of useful skills?
Oh, we got GOLD FOR TRAITS, now that’s cool! Yeah! Wait, what?

lordkrall.7241:

Haven’t people been complaining about how the PvP in GW1 was superior in every way to GW2?

And yet now when they are basically adding part of what was in GW1 PvP (paying currency to unlock skills/item) it is the worst decision ever?
There is no pleasing some people.

The difference here is that GW1 had a lot of things to unlock, and when you unlocked something in PvP, you were able to directly benefit in PvE as unlocked skills could be learned via tome items and were automatically available to all your heroes. Also, the rate of learning was much different: a single match would give you enough faction for 3 regular or 1 elite skills. You could also translate the fruit of your labours much better by turning unwanted faction into amber, jade, and zkeys.

This is basically a 10g tax and I’m not going to pretend that spvp is at all profitable enough to make up for it or be a decent moneymaking option relative to PvE.

lordkrall.7241:

Haven’t people been complaining about how the PvP in GW1 was superior in every way to GW2?

And yet now when they are basically adding part of what was in GW1 PvP (paying currency to unlock skills/item) it is the worst decision ever?
There is no pleasing some people.

You’re missing something here.

Gw was released when eSport was on a lull, there was no “competitive balance” or “casual balance”, but now in 2014 where eSport is on a high you can pin-point fairly easy what game will be which balance, will it cater to the casuals or the competitors?

This change moves from being competitive to being casual, unlocking stuff is NOT an achievement, it’s a TIME SINK designed to make people feel a false sense of achievement, meaningthey spend more time in-game.

You’re also missing something very important, THE GAME HAS BEEN OUT FOR OVER A YEAR, changing the core balance of SPvP from competitive to casual AFTER people have bought the game for the competitive balance is kittenED.

Puro.8196:

Ugruk.4069:

They failed because they lack the resources to simply split spvp and the rest, so balance allways goes down the drain, and spvp gets pushed to last on the list since no one plays it because it blows and the ones that play dont spend money on the store

You’re saying they lack resources to split SPvP and the rest, but since beta SPvP HAS been split from WvW and PvE, so I am not sure what you’re getting at.

Saying no one plays SPvP is just a flat out lie though.

You know how many skills are split from spvp and the rest? Is it a handfull? I doubt it, they said it themselves, it isnt easy messing with skill balance since you cant look at spvp only…

Don’t you try to compare Spvp community numbers with wvw/pve,rofl just don’t… They said in a week they had more players doing WvW then the whole population of GW1.

Do I need to draw a picture?

felivear.1536:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

The addition of new skills and traits on a regular basis will of course mean expanded variety of abilities, builds, and tactics in PvP as well. As these additional skills and traits are added, they’ll be automatically unlocked and available for competitive PvP just like all existing skills/traits work today.

That last paragraph encompasses a lot of the problem I have with ANET. There is NO transparency because they say they risk being wrong or unable to deliver, yet they still end up going back on their word.

So, where another company is an open book and some info turns out to be false (making it a small % of incorrect info), Anet provides little info and some still turns out being false, making it a significant percentage of the info we’re given.

Wow, I completely forgot about that paragraph.

Truly an amazingly hilarious find, well done.

Given custom arenas have hardly taken off, they need more ways to monetize pvp. It sucks they’ve chosen this route, but can see why.

sendmark.4731:

Given custom arenas have hardly taken off, they need more ways to monetize pvp. It sucks they’ve chosen this route, but can see why.

Anet is the reason why PvP didn’t “hit it off” though, they spoke so much about Gw2 eSport and hyped so many professional teams for it, but when it all came down to it, nothing happened, kittenty spectator system and poor balance made sure Anet kittened up for themselves, and in turn because of THEIR kitten-up, we’re forced to change monetization model for PvP..

DEAL-BREAKER!

Tying gold to spvp equipment/traits means this game became pay-to-win

Charak.9761:

Tying gold to spvp equipment/traits means this game became pay-to-win

It is funny how people never shouted Pay to win about GW1, where you could outright buy every single skill in the game (available in PvP) with real money in order to bypass the grind to unlock them.