Guild Wars 2

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Those are fair and true points. Putting aside the fact I believe builds are actually relatively close I really only put nec at the bottom because I feel it could use a bit more “omph” right now however I realize that balance is delicate. At the time of posting however I was actually debating with myself on that slot, maybe a bit of an oversight. But yes nec is still a pretty viable option or your comp.

A lot if that perspective however is very subjective for me, since outside of trolling and harassing with cheesy gimmick builds since release I never had a necro, engie, or ranger that I have not deleted, and have very rarely used in proper play. (Not because of viability just didn’t have any want to play.)

S+
Elementalist

S
Mesmer

A
Guardian
Thief
Necromancer
Engineer
Warrior

B-
Ranger

Top Tier:

• Armorsmith
• Weaponsmith
• Tailor

Mid Tier:

• Artificier
• Leatherworker
• Huntsman

Bottom Tier:

• Chef

Trash Tier:

• Jeweler

Jewelers got screwed over hard by how easy it is to get ascended trinkets. Obviously Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths will always be meta looking at how many sets they can produce. It is time for Anet to seriously rebalance this stuff – it is completely whack.

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?

Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
→ I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Top Tier:

• Armorsmith
• Weaponsmith
• Tailor

Mid Tier:

• Artificier
• Leatherworker
• Huntsman

Bottom Tier:

• Chef

Trash Tier:

• Jeweler

Jewelers got screwed over hard by how easy it is to get ascended trinkets. Obviously Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths will always be meta looking at how many sets they can produce. It is time for Anet to seriously rebalance this stuff – it is completely whack.

This made me lol

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?

Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
-> I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…

Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs and got most points and was essential in defending the lord with plague form (10% on lord left before they won with a 3 cap , but it was very close and without the blinds they would have lost) and helped tons in team fights (just from watching the videos I watched) as well as rotation. He’s good with Abjured, and their comp is unstoppable with him, he’s not the reason they’re winning alone, they all are the reason. They all work well with each other. Just shows you that it’s not all about class all the time.

But yes, Nos is easily the best necro in the game right now in competitive PvP by FAR and helps his team out alot.

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?

Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
-> I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…

Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs and got most points and was essential in defending the lord with plague form (10% on lord left before they won with a 3 cap , but it was very close and without the blinds they would have lost) and helped tons in team fights (just from watching the videos I watched) as well as rotation. He’s good with Abjured, and their comp is unstoppable with him, he’s not the reason they’re winning alone, they all are the reason. They all work well with each other. Just shows you that it’s not all about class all the time.

But yes, Nos is easily the best necro in the game right now in competitive PvP by FAR and helps his team out alot.

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

→ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Top Tier:

• Armorsmith
• Tailor

Mid Tier:

• Leatherworker

This proves Ranger sucks. +1

OP Tier
Mes in general
d/d or d/f ele

Good Tier:
Rampage Warrior
Bunker Guardian
d/p SA Thief

Mid Tier
Cele necro (needs 3 stab on spectral armor to be in good tier)
Engi (in general I think they are still decent, but they get outclassed by ele and mes)
Other Warrior Builds
Staff Ele
Medi Guard

Bottom Tier:
Everything else

OP tier
Ele, mesmer, thief
Balanced
Engi, necro, ranger, warrior, guardian

Lordrosicky.5813:

OP tier
Ele, mesmer, thief
Balanced
Engi, necro, ranger, warrior, guardian

+1

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?

Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
-> I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…

Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs and got most points and was essential in defending the lord with plague form (10% on lord left before they won with a 3 cap , but it was very close and without the blinds they would have lost) and helped tons in team fights (just from watching the videos I watched) as well as rotation. He’s good with Abjured, and their comp is unstoppable with him, he’s not the reason they’re winning alone, they all are the reason. They all work well with each other. Just shows you that it’s not all about class all the time.

But yes, Nos is easily the best necro in the game right now in competitive PvP by FAR and helps his team out alot.

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Celestial necro is wayyyyyyy better than zerker necro. Nearly the same damage with might stacking and the survivability isn’t even a question. I like how quick people are to say that Noscoc is never the reason they win and they could win with any class as their 5th, but ALWAYS the reason they ever lose. Too funny , they , as a TEAM did bad against oRNG this game. Noscoc would most likely wreck you in 1on1s and The Abjured would most likely wreck you as well, so the hate is extremely real on necros when he continues to win NA. Shrug

Also I’ll add that Wakkey dying in the last team fight and being out-rotated in the end lost that game, not Noscoc. Also, toker and wakkey died more than noscoc in the 2nd. So how exactly did Nos being a necro make them lose again? Don’t worry I’ll wait.

Morwath.9817:

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,

I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.

Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.

And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.

And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,

I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.

Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.

And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.

And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.

Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around we got today.

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,

I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.

Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.

And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.

And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.

Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around.

Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.

nearlight.3064:

Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.

Point is, Celstial isn’t more squishy because it’s more squishy… but Terroromancer could take more damage because everyone was able to deal less damage.

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,

I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.

Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.

And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.

And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.

Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around we got today.

You’re crazy man .. The LF gen buffs post patch coupled with signets and celestial are more sustainable than terrormancer and you do kitten with conditions now , this alone is justification for not running terrormancer now nevermind the less survivability. Even if they had equal or even more survivability than cele sig necro, conditions don’t work due to aoe cleanse. This gives you both, with might generation and tankyness. You end up hitting near zerk #‘s with 20+ and your conditions are near condi amulet #’s with higher toughness and healing power. Sig also good for teams.

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,

I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.

Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.

And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.

And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.

Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around we got today.

You’re crazy man .. The LF gen buffs post patch coupled with signets and celestial are more sustainable than terrormancer and you do kitten with conditions now , this alone is justification for not running terrormancer now nevermind the less survivability. Even if they had equal or even more survivability than cele sig necro, conditions don’t work due to aoe cleanse. This gives you both, with might generation and tankyness. You end up hitting near zerk #‘s with 20+ and your conditions are near condi amulet #’s with higher toughness and healing power. Sig also good for teams.

Have I said a that TerrorM is viable (?), or maybe I’ve said that it was viable (?) and it was more viable than Celestial is right now? Not viable actualy, but able to survive longer…

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.

Point is, Celstial isn’t more squishy because it’s more squishy… but Terroromancer could take more damage because everyone was able to deal less damage.

Well even so, thats a moot point. Comparing two different stat set ups in two different metas doesn’t really achieve much for us. We have to focus on the now while learning from the past, and right now condi necro sucks, and I know you know this, and being squishy is only one of the many reasons it sucks. Cele necro is good now, and thats what counts, even if you insist that terrormancer was better than it was in the past, I just don’t see how that argument helps us rate the current viablity of necromancer.

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.

Point is, Celstial isn’t more squishy because it’s more squishy… but Terroromancer could take more damage because everyone was able to deal less damage.

Well even so, thats a moot point. Comparing two different stat set ups in two different metas doesn’t really achieve much for us. We have to focus on the now while learning from the past, and right now condi necro sucks, and I know you know this, and being squishy is only one of the many reasons it sucks. Cele necro is good now, and thats what counts, even if you insist that terrormancer was better than it was in the past, I just don’t see how that argument helps us rate the current viablity of necromancer.

Maybe I should ask differently:
-> What is Necro good for?
-> What Necro does better than other professions?
-> What Necro does worse than other professions?
-> Summarize… and ask yourself, if you there is a reason to pick Necro instead of other profession?

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Unless you are the true master of the fleshwurm I’m inclined to disagree, but if you can back up your claim, I’m all ears.

Point is, Celstial isn’t more squishy because it’s more squishy… but Terroromancer could take more damage because everyone was able to deal less damage.

Well even so, thats a moot point. Comparing two different stat set ups in two different metas doesn’t really achieve much for us. We have to focus on the now while learning from the past, and right now condi necro sucks, and I know you know this, and being squishy is only one of the many reasons it sucks. Cele necro is good now, and thats what counts, even if you insist that terrormancer was better than it was in the past, I just don’t see how that argument helps us rate the current viablity of necromancer.

Maybe I should ask differently:
-> What is Necro good for?
-> What Necro does better than other professions?
-> What Necro does worse than other professions?
-> Summarize… and ask yourself, if you there is a reason to pick Necro instead of other profession?

The profession in general:

1. Boon corruption, high sustained damage, control effects/soft cc condis (like weakness), self-mightstacking, burst AoE damage (wells), condi transfers, transfusion rezzes and siphons.
2. Necro has better boon corruption than any other class, and life force lets it unbalance 1v1s in its favor (a trickier advantage, but still an advantage). They also have better sustain vs. condis than any class due to the transfers and high health pool and whatnot.
3. Non-burst condi pressure, mobility, and ability to disengage.

After looking at this, I still think there is reason to pick celestial necromancer over other classes. If you can make up for the loss in mobility in other areas (such as by running a mesmer/thief) you get a durable fighter that can win 1v1s and smaller fights with ease and contribute high sustained single target damage in teamfights, while being tanky enough to be very hard to kill. If they focus a full life force necro in a teamfight, the rest of the team should be able to capitalize on how long it takes to get through all of that health. People underestimate how power deathshroud can be when its used properly.

In 1v1s I’d put necromancer just behind D/D ele in terms of what they are capable of in that regard, and like D/D ele (but unlike condi ranger/engi and other 1v1 focused classes) they can contribute in larger fights as well.

Few thoughts:
-> Boon Corruption is much weaker feature than prepatch. It’s random now, which means no Fear chains on targets with Stability.
-> Condi Transfers are much weaker, since there are less condis around. No Shoutbow, no Terrormancers, no Cele Rifle Engies.
-> You can’t have all features you’ve mentioned above while playing Celestial: a) Signets and fast Might stacking; b) Wells and AoE cleave, c) ability to disengage with Flesh Wurm, d) Blood Magic.
-> I would like to mention that actualy Necro is pretty bad at disengaging while unfavoured (enemy gets +1) unless you play both Flesh Wurm and Plague. Which imho means you overvaluated how good Necro is in 1v1, since 1v1 leads often to +1 at one side.
-> Death Shroud is inferior compared to any escape mechanism while under focused fire, since a) you can’t benefit from AoE heals/regeneration, b) you’ve to take all incoming damage.
-> Contributing in larger fights require sacrifices (e.g. you’ve to pick Blood Magic instead of Spite(boon corruption,might stacking)/Curses(passive transfer, weakening shroud)/Soul Reaping (survi). Necro by deflaut is selfish class.

Morwath.9817:

Few thoughts:
-> Boon Corruption is much weaker feature than prepatch. It’s random now, which means no Fear chains on targets with Stability.
-> Condi Transfers are much weaker, since there are less condis around. No Shoutbow, no Terrormancers, no Cele Rifle Engies.
-> You can’t have all features you’ve mentioned above while playing Celestial: a) Signets and fast Might stacking; b) Wells and AoE cleave, c) ability to disengage with Flesh Wurm, d) Blood Magic.
-> I would like to mention that actualy Necro is pretty bad at disengaging while unfavoured (enemy gets +1) unless you play both Flesh Wurm and Plague. Which imho means you overvaluated how good Necro is in 1v1, since 1v1 leads often to +1 at one side.
-> Death Shroud is inferior compared to any escape mechanism while under focused fire, since a) you can’t benefit from AoE heals/regeneration, b) you’ve to take all incoming damage.
-> Contributing in larger fights require sacrifices (e.g. you’ve to pick Blood Magic instead of Spite(boon corruption,might stacking)/Curses(passive transfer, weakening shroud)/Soul Reaping (survi). Necro by deflaut is selfish class.

I see your argument, but I will stick with necromancer as one of the classes I play until I stop playing this game. Its fun for me, and I don’t think its pleasant to think about how I’m running a nceromancer is hurting my team instead of playing d/d ele or mantraspam mesmer, so in conclusion, I will play how I want because I know that I am good at this class and I can help my team win by playing it.

Sorry this is a really complex argument, but I’ve just been arguing so much on the forums (against the antiwarhorn ele coalition ie. the most stubborn vocal minority in the history of gw2) that I really can’t argue anymore and its stressing me out.

nearlight.3064:

I see your argument, but I will stick with necromancer as one of the classes I play until I stop playing this game. Its fun for me, and I don’t think its pleasant to think about how I’m running a nceromancer is hurting my team instead of playing d/d ele or mantraspam mesmer, so in conclusion, I will play how I want because I know that I am good at this class and I can help my team win by playing it.

Sorry this is a really complex argument, but I’ve just been arguing so much on the forums (against the antiwarhorn ele coalition ie. the most stubborn vocal minority in the history of gw2) that I really can’t argue anymore and its stressing me out.

I think playing weaker (Necro) or inferior (Ranger) profession (compared to FOTMs) shouldn’t be any issue as long as you don’t aim at competitive scene… so play what you enjoy, for same reason Ranger is one of my favourite picks (Necro>Ranger>Guardian) ;-)

However, if we consider discussing ‘tier lists’ and such, we should be honest with ourselves about pros/cons of each profession.

Aomine.5012:

It’s always funny that some people have this self-righteousness of believing they’re one of those very few “special individuals” who knows how things work, while other 5 millions players and those top 100 individuals clearly have no idea of how things work.

Seriously, stop assuming other people, even the top players, are all idiots, and you’re the only one who knows how things work. Usually people who hold this idea have very limiting view point, and live in their little world of low tier competitive scene.

Their famous quote is always: “Most players don’t know bleh bleh bleh, I’m the only one that know how to make it work. I’m the only good player here, while other people are just bad because I have success in my low tier competition.”

Maybe you are right and maybe you are one of those who just see some “metabuilds” and that’s everything you know. I just said my opinion, if you want to prove me wrong you can always ask me in arena instead of being just forum warrior.

Ranger is really in good possition atm, it is comparable to d/d ele, even tho I think ranger can even offer more support to allies. And that’s all my opinion, thanks for respecting that. But hey, if you make anet to buff ranger I won’t cry, ranger is my mine.

Morwath.9817:

Few thoughts:
-> Boon Corruption is much weaker feature than prepatch. It’s random now, which means no Fear chains on targets with Stability.
-> Condi Transfers are much weaker, since there are less condis around. No Shoutbow, no Terrormancers, no Cele Rifle Engies.
-> You can’t have all features you’ve mentioned above while playing Celestial: a) Signets and fast Might stacking; b) Wells and AoE cleave, c) ability to disengage with Flesh Wurm, d) Blood Magic.
-> I would like to mention that actualy Necro is pretty bad at disengaging while unfavoured (enemy gets +1) unless you play both Flesh Wurm and Plague. Which imho means you overvaluated how good Necro is in 1v1, since 1v1 leads often to +1 at one side.
-> Death Shroud is inferior compared to any escape mechanism while under focused fire, since a) you can’t benefit from AoE heals/regeneration, b) you’ve to take all incoming damage.
-> Contributing in larger fights require sacrifices (e.g. you’ve to pick Blood Magic instead of Spite(boon corruption,might stacking)/Curses(passive transfer, weakening shroud)/Soul Reaping (survi). Necro by deflaut is selfish class.

I think Necro is in a better state post-patch. Engi, Warrior, Guardian, and Thief CC is much less prominent and allows Necro to keep sustain up. Transfer Necro nearly hardcounters condi builds that don’t have cleanses (possibly why these builds aren’t meta), and does decent against other condition users. Rangers are much less of a thing, so getting hammered from across the map with no reflects or blocks is much less of a problem. With Mesmer burst and Ele power damage + burning spikes it looks like disengaging is harder for all classes, on the other hand Necros can stand on point longer with with Shroud and Plague.

Overall, I think the meta is covering up some of Necro’s inherent weaknesses.

I don’t understand how people think Ranger is low tier when it’s actually a really strong class atm.

Quickness res and stomps change games. And they bait dodges and cool downs pretty kitten well. I’m talking about the Long Bow Zerk Ranger btw. If you get people to go defensive by making them obstruct, then you are giving your team breathing room and if people focus you you can dodge it so easy cause pulsing stability, invulns and evade spam.

Like honestly everything is high tier, just that they need to nerf Ele and Mesmer.

Nier.8741:

I don’t understand how people think Ranger is low tier when it’s actually a really strong class atm.

Quickness res and stomps change games. And they bait dodges and cool downs pretty kitten well. I’m talking about the Long Bow Zerk Ranger btw. If you get people to go defensive by obstructing them, then you are giving your team breathing room and if people focus you you can dodge it so easy cause pulsing stability, invulns and evade spam.

Like honestly everything is high tier, just that they need to nerf Ele and Mesmer.

Yeah, but most ranger players that don’t compete higher tier, suck, and have no idea how to kite. Most just sit there and longbow auto me instead of using the GS when I close the gap.

I’ve met a few rangers that really impressed me and new exactly how to kite and disengage and whatnot, but more often than not, I meet pew pew rangers that are free kills.

Lordrosicky.5813:

OP tier
Ele, mesmer, thief
Balanced
Engi, necro, ranger, warrior, guardian

+1

1- Mesmer
2- Ele/Guardian/Warrior
3- Thief/Necro
4- Engie/Ranger

This is my view on class tiers.

Situations.2416:

Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs

last match on legacy of foefire he was playing MM, running with 5 minions, the match where sumbol could tkae it down with lord, lord was 10-15% when time was over.

S:
Mesmer
Elementalist
Engineer

A:
Ranger
Necro
Guard

B:
Warrior (S when Rampaging)
Thief

But memeing aside, the current state of the game is really kitten solid.
I am really impressed with the devs, personally.

S:
Mesmer

A:
Elementalist
Warrior
Thief
Engineer
Guard

B:
Necro

C:
Ranger

OP:
Stealth Burst vs Beserker Amulet

Balanced:
All professions with a good build or skilled player behind them

Weak:
Bad builds and/or bad players.

In my opinion the problem with balance in GW2, is not necessarily the strong builds, its the weak builds that do not synergize well or do not offer anything worthwhile. We have so many traits and skills that are not used, because they are so weak and do not make for strong builds. If they could improve the weak skills and traits, it would increase build diversity and this would in turn help reduce the perception of OP meta builds, because there would be more builds and more opportunities to counter certain builds.

I feel this strange spiral from the Forum Warriors of complaining over Ele → nerfs → Ele becoming low tier→ buffs equal to 1/10 of the nerf made of “bug fixes” or something that “wasn’t intended” → Ele considered OP within a month → crying over Ele →…

Rin.1046:

OP:
Stealth Burst vs Beserker Amulet

Balanced:
All professions with a good build or skilled player behind them

Weak:
Bad builds and/or bad players.

In my opinion the problem with balance in GW2, is not necessarily the strong builds, its the weak builds that do not synergize well or do not offer anything worthwhile. We have so many traits and skills that are not used, because they are so weak and do not make for strong builds. If they could improve the weak skills and traits, it would increase build diversity and this would in turn help reduce the perception of OP meta builds, because there would be more builds and more opportunities to counter certain builds.

Yeah this is kind of how I feel. Cele ele and a shatter/mantra mes are a little op right now, but so many weapons, utils, and traits are so underpowered no one will ever be able to use them even semi-competitively. Just to give a few examples:
Necro axe
Ele Scepter
Guardian Shield
Guardian Consecrations
Ranger Spirits
Ranger Shortbow

They need to work on stuff like this as much if not more than the OP stuff.

One thing i’d like to note with these lists is that, despite people complaining about burn being over powered, the only burn utilizing class being placed as rank S or being classified as OP is ele, and not engi or guard, two classes than can also stack burns. The impression i’m getting is that the problem with the current burn mechanic has more to do either with ele’s already impressive flexibility being amplified by burn, or because ele might have more chances to stack burns than either guard or engi.

Perhaps a solution to that would be reducing the number of burn stacks ele skills can apply? Although i suspect people might still complain that ele is too strong even with a precisely aimed burn nerf.

ss-tier: universally overpowered; needs drastic nerfs
mesmer (gs/x +sd/t power shatter)
elementalist (celestial d/d, d/f)

s-tier: overpowered in certain situations, strong in most or all others
warrior (gs/x with rampage)
guardian (gs + sc/f power meditation, cleric bunker)

a-tier: strong in all scenarios, well balanced
necro (celestial signet, classic power necro)
thief (d/p power)

a/b-tier: suffers from one or two prominent hardcounters, but still strong in most other engagements
engineer (rifle, rabid p/x)

b-tier: strong niche performance, average to mediocre outside of these niche scenarios
ranger (rabid sb + sd/t)

edit: build specific now

A
Elementalist (Celestial D/D)
Necromancer (Celestial Signet)

B
Mesmer (Mantra Shatter)
Thief (D/P Panic Strike)
Guardian (Bunker Cleric)

C
Warrior (GS/H Rampage)
Engineer (Rifle Soldier)

F
Ranger (anything)

S:
Shatter Mesmer
D/D + D/F Cele Ele
Burn Guard
Rampage

A:
Medi Guard / Bunker Guard
Necro (DS Tank / Cele)

B:
D/P Thief
Warriors outside rampage
Fresh Air Ele
Engi (anything)

Trash tier:
Any Ranger build
S/D Thief