Guild Wars 2

There’s a certain player on the NA leaderboard who I won’t name, although everyone knows this person. This person is fairly low skill and only employs one strategy regardless of enemy comp or team comp, yet this person is very high on the ladder. Why? It’s because of their build: DD condi 3 spam thief. This build is one of the lowest skill builds in the game, yet has very high reward, because even if it doesnt win 1v1, idiots will still +1 it all game. Anet shouldn’t allow builds that press 3 buttons (Steal, Dodge, 3) to be so effective and carry players into the top 10. It’s too late for this season, but for next season this build needs to be removed from viability.

:’D These posts make smile every time. Yes. Condi thief is one of most annoying builds to fight against. But like warrior, they need to be in close range in order to their attacks to work.

And when I fight against them as druid, I dont attack them at all. Just use condi cleanse and dodge, and when they run out of endurance, burst them down or make them run.

Ofc if your internet is laggy, it’s hard to see when to burst them.

There’s only one “op” condi class, and thats mesmer due to their Moa elite.

See now I have to check the top 10 tonight to find out who you are talking about.

Losing to condi thief should always be followed by uninstalling or getting good

It is a terrible build and waste of a thief slot, LB don’t mean crap haha he must be getting carried incredibly hard by his duo or queueing at crazy hours… or it’s just evidence of how truly ded gaem we are

I used this build and it got me through gold, soooo f-Ing funny! Can hold its own on most 1v1’s except for the few tanky build setups such as ele and tank Engi(can’t ever kill those slippery sob’s)
Pretty okay in group fights as long as you throw down caltrops (no one ever thinks to stand off point to escape caltrops and end up with 30+ bleeds) lol
Very rough to play against but, is it ever funny to watch people whine when they loose a game because they couldn’t take on the thief.
Though you won’t find many out there, I’ve only ever seen 1 player with this build this season

Thief in general has too many evades.

Timing thief evades, similar to what you used to be capable on rev(only better), grants them too long of a window to not take damage at all.

When you add the ability to clear the map in like 5 seconds and instantly clear terrain, it makes the second most bursty class(second to mes) near unkillable provided the person playing knows when to leave a fight and does it routinely.

It’s no surprise the highest rated thiefs abuse it.

JayAction.9056:

Thief in general has too many evades.

Timing thief evades, similar to what you used to be capable on rev(only better), grants them too long of a window to not take damage at all.

When you add the ability to clear the map in like 5 seconds and instantly clear terrain, it makes the second most bursty class(second to mes) near unkillable provided the person playing knows when to leave a fight and does it routinely.

It’s no surprise the highest rated thiefs abuse it.

While most other classes have too many “Insert defense/offense here” blocks, invulns, stuns, stab, cleanses, heals… etc on top of having large damage both AoE and Single target.

Only thing I notice is someone can’t beat a troll build and can’t learn to play around it if need be, all that says is the “skill” of that player isn’t as good as he thinks they may be

BlaqueFyre.5678:

JayAction.9056:

Thief in general has too many evades.

Timing thief evades, similar to what you used to be capable on rev(only better), grants them too long of a window to not take damage at all.

When you add the ability to clear the map in like 5 seconds and instantly clear terrain, it makes the second most bursty class(second to mes) near unkillable provided the person playing knows when to leave a fight and does it routinely.

It’s no surprise the highest rated thiefs abuse it.

While most other classes have too many “Insert defense/offense here” blocks, invulns, stuns, stab, cleanses, heals… etc on top of having large damage both AoE and Single target.

Only thing I notice is someone can’t beat a troll build and can’t learn to play around it if need be, all that says is the “skill” of that player isn’t as good as he thinks they may be

Do you play thief or are you in the top 250?

Do you know what strategy is the most potent right now?

You seem kind of clueless

“Troll build” is synonymous with broken now?

Potato.2567:

There’s a certain player on the NA leaderboard who I won’t name, although everyone knows this person. This person is fairly low skill and only employs one strategy regardless of enemy comp or team comp, yet this person is very high on the ladder. Why? It’s because of their build: DD condi 3 spam thief. This build is one of the lowest skill builds in the game, yet has very high reward, because even if it doesnt win 1v1, idiots will still +1 it all game. Anet shouldn’t allow builds that press 3 buttons (Steal, Dodge, 3) to be so effective and carry players into the top 10. It’s too late for this season, but for next season this build needs to be removed from viability.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Tell me another joke please…
D/D condi thief is OP yeah…

Rukia.9860:

Losing to condi thief should always be followed by uninstalling or getting good

It is a terrible build and waste of a thief slot, LB don’t mean crap haha he must be getting carried incredibly hard by his duo or queueing at crazy hours… or it’s just evidence of how truly ded gaem we are

Condi thief isn’t exactly slow moving. It can still steal and get swiftness and has a few ways to keep on a target. And if you don’t have an escape move, they’ll keep right up with you. Now on the other hand, if you play your million and one evades and blocks right and know the timing, condi thief is countered by everything except necro. And only necro because necro is slow and has no way to keep away from them. All other professions have something to escape or prevent hits till they can kite well enough.

And again on the other hand, there’s the fact that this is a point based game and if you’re fighting a condi thief on point, you’re gonna have to blow your CDs to prevent him from capping that point since evading doesn’t prevent capturing. There are all kind of tradeoffs and overall, yes, the build isn’t as good as something like D/P. But that doesn’t excuse how cheap and lazy and unskilled the build is for how powerful it can be.

I think what kittenes players off more than how powerful it is, is how unskilled it is. It’s two freaking buttons to do damage! And it’s some pretty incredible condition damage too. Bleeding is supposed to be the long lasting, weak ticks condition, but this build (similar to condition Reaper), turns bleeding into a long lasting, hard ticks condition. Because it lasts so long and can be stacked so quickly and so easily, it ends up doing tons of damage. And you can’t just cleanse it off because it’s immediately reapplied because all the thief needs to do is press a button and now you have 2-3 stacks for 15 seconds. And just like any thief, they can easily run away if they need to. Everything about the build is cheap. It’s like crashing a metal car and a plastic car together and finding out that the plastic car doesn’t have a dent in it. It’s amazingly unfair that something so cheap and unskilled can be so effective, and yet so horrible at the same time because every profession can abuse its one weakness. It’s not fair to anyone, including the thief, and that’s what kittenes me off the most about the build.

Also, this thread is so typical. Someone complains about something obviously OP and weak at the same time, and every thief ever hops in and defends their precious OP profession. Thieves need to kittening admit this already: you are overpowered. Not as OP as Druids, but you’re OP. You get my point. You won’t admit I, and everyone who doesn’t main thief, are right though. Never. So typical. You’re even worse than revs in the bias department.

Even dual pistols is more skillfull (not in attack) because they must take care of their survability with position, dodges, moves…

The d/d build is the best thing for pveboys who want to shine in pvp, because they just have to take care of rotations, like pve.

Rukia.9860:

Losing to condi thief should always be followed by uninstalling or getting good

It is a terrible build and waste of a thief slot, LB don’t mean crap haha he must be getting carried incredibly hard by his duo or queueing at crazy hours… or it’s just evidence of how truly ded gaem we are

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/134162839

From a WvW perspective (so I assume it would have similar effect in PvP) things that counter or stalemate me when I play D/D condi evade cheese whether they are offensive or tanky/bunker builds:

• Scep/Sh + LB Dragonhunter - trap heal will just pop their HP back up on such low CD, elite invul aka another round of block for days/projectile absorb with Sh + trait that clears condi on block idk but it’s in DH traitline
• any kind of healbot ele - condi clears for days
• another D/D condi evade thief - stalemate.. obvious
• P/D condi thief - only met 2 but both times camped stealth; clears condis whilst in stealth, kites you forever
• good power staff + D/P evade thief - similar if not identical bar as yours so evades, condi clears but has stealth, fight resetter etc (good ones will know when Deathblossom evade frames end and time their inturrupts correctly)
• above average/good condi mesmer - condi clear on shatter, recharges shatters via signet aka more condi clears, kites you, will use your Escapist’s Absolution to their advantage via cease attacking after they’ve condi bombed you and know your sig/other condi cleanses is off CD etc
• well played bunker druid - met a few can be a stalemate but good ones will utilise staff #5, Druidic Clarity + Celestial Shadow together and will be a nuisance in general via kiting and Taunt procs
• meta power stun warri - putting this up here for bonus brownie points because some know when to land those stuns after your evade frame ends and it’s pretty much GG if your Instant Reflexes is on CD and you’ve used up your shadowstep + Bandit’s Defense

The standard d/d condi build can easily be beaten if you learn the timing. . . l2p op.

Bring DH, problem solved -_-’

JayAction.9056:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

JayAction.9056:

Thief in general has too many evades.

Timing thief evades, similar to what you used to be capable on rev(only better), grants them too long of a window to not take damage at all.

When you add the ability to clear the map in like 5 seconds and instantly clear terrain, it makes the second most bursty class(second to mes) near unkillable provided the person playing knows when to leave a fight and does it routinely.

It’s no surprise the highest rated thiefs abuse it.

While most other classes have too many “Insert defense/offense here” blocks, invulns, stuns, stab, cleanses, heals… etc on top of having large damage both AoE and Single target.

Only thing I notice is someone can’t beat a troll build and can’t learn to play around it if need be, all that says is the “skill” of that player isn’t as good as he thinks they may be

Do you play thief or are you in the top 250?

Do you know what strategy is the most potent right now?

You seem kind of clueless

“Troll build” is synonymous with broken now?

Did I say anything about D/D Condi being broken? Nope I called it a troll build, and if people lose against it, then the problem is with the player that lost. And no I am not in the top 250 since I was out of the country for two weeks and only recently gotten back this week, and I main Thief almost exclusively.

Again my post was stating that almost classes have too much of everything.

And the players that have issues beating Condi D/D even after the significant nerfs to Acro and SoA really emphasizes how bad those players really are.

Condi D/D is nothing but a sub par kitten troll build, hence why it’s not seen all that much.

The funny thing is everyone saying the build is easy to beat when I know for a fact every single person who said that in this thread would lose to maygi in a 1v2

Wait, people think d/d condi is op?

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

The funny thing is everyone saying the build is easy to beat when I know for a fact every single person who said that in this thread would lose to maygi in a 1v2

Haha, it’s always the same, people have big mouth and write theories. They say : “The things are like this, it’s easy, we must do like this this and this and ezz. You are noob if you can’t do this.”

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

The funny thing is everyone saying the build is easy to beat when I know for a fact every single person who said that in this thread would lose to maygi in a 1v2

Who is maygi? Never seen that person, i assume he is from NA? Then your statement may be true for NA players but please leave EU players out of it.

I haven’t seen a D/D condi thief that carried a match (unless enemy was really bad but then it is different issue).

I wonder what will happen the day a condi d/d will try to time its dodges and death blossoms right.

The world might end….or NA leaderboard before that :p

To OP credit, condi, vault spamming, perm evading teef is a pain in the kitten But power, vault spamming, perma evading teef is 3times as bad and needs to die.

if you play dh with condi clears on block and cp and smite condi you can handle a condi thf, but it still takes so long to kill one that it’s not even worth it. in fact, the real problem with condi and vault spammer is how it can turn your teammates into inmense liabilities. you might be able to handle of these cheese builds but it means very little if your team 2v1 a condi thf or one of your teammates becomes rez bait for vault cleave.

I have never seen a d/d thief (condi) carry a match in NA.

Also, speaking on OPness generally: rev is not OP. Rev played by Rarnarrk is very tough. Saying a top player can make a class work extremely well isn’t a good measure for the average player.

saerni.2584:

I have never seen a d/d thief (condi) carry a match in NA.

Also, speaking on OPness generally: rev is not OP. Rev played by Rarnarrk is very tough. Saying a top player can make a class work extremely well isn’t a good measure for the average player.

The first line of your post shows you don’t play very high rated.

You said gold, I’m in gold. Dont pretend you know better unless you are changing your standard to platinum.

saerni.2584:

You said gold, I’m in gold. Dont pretend you know better unless you are changing your standard to platinum.

Ok the standard is platinum.

The point still stands lmfao.

And I submit that your standards are arbitrary and capricious. You have raised your standard of who can provide a valid opinion so high as to exclude the majority of players, likely excluding yourself.

Ironically, in attempting to show me up you have revealed the complete lack of intellectual integrity your argument has.

saerni.2584:

And I submit that your standards are arbitrary and capricious. You have raised your standard of who can provide a valid opinion so high as to exclude the majority of players, likely excluding yourself.

Ironically, in attempting to show me up you have revealed the complete lack of intellectual integrity your argument has.

No that doesn’t exclude me. If I’m not plat or higher at this exact moment I’m within like 2 points (rank 100 ish lol). I also play a rev build nobody else in game plays that is actually not even good but I make it work obviously… As solo q btw(big point). You’re probably not quite sure how that distinguishes me from others but I won’t waste time explaining lol.

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

The funny thing is everyone saying the build is easy to beat when I know for a fact every single person who said that in this thread would lose to maygi in a 1v2

Unblock me you kitten.

Seriously though, I don’t think anyone in this thread could actually beat Maygi in a 1v1 because the only build with enough condi clear and damage to actually KILL that is Acro staff thief. I don’t lose to Maygi 1v1 unless I have to start typing in chat, which I do all the time when I face her because my team will constantly +1 home and I have to scream at them to leave, meanwhile I get 20 bleeds and have to run or die. The issue isn’t that I lose 1v1, the issue is that I’m perpetually trolled at home by an idiot that’s pressing 3 buttons while my pugs constantly +1 me.

Also, WvW doesn’t apply because in WvW you don’t have to cap points. I could stand off point and kite and eventually I would kill the DD condi thief, but in PvP that would take so long that the game would be over and they would hold the cap the whole time.

JayAction.9056:

saerni.2584:

And I submit that your standards are arbitrary and capricious. You have raised your standard of who can provide a valid opinion so high as to exclude the majority of players, likely excluding yourself.

Ironically, in attempting to show me up you have revealed the complete lack of intellectual integrity your argument has.

No that doesn’t exclude me. If I’m not plat or higher at this exact moment I’m within like 2 points (rank 100 ish lol). I also play a rev build nobody else in game plays that is actually not even good but I make it work obviously… As solo q btw(big point). You’re probably not quite sure how that distinguishes me from others but I won’t waste time explaining lol.

You aren’t addressing my argument. If a gold level player, who is above the average player ranking, is saying this build isn’t common or effective…then your argument is substantially weaker.

Say someone says “thief op” because a top 10 thief player beat them utterly. That isn’t really all that convincing because that player is much better, overall, at the actual game. That doesn’t make thief op because a really good player can use it to beat them.

Likewise, if you think this build is op, while ignoring the mid-high level players who never have issues with this build, only focusing on the bottom players who struggle with class mechanics and the top players who have reflexes and ability well above 90% of players, your argument lacks significant merit.

A lack of skill will usually result in loss. A large amount of skill will usually result in victory. The middle is where “op” actually has credible meaning. And throwing out gold opinions because you view yourself as really a platinum player…is questionable at best.

saerni.2584:

JayAction.9056:

saerni.2584:

And I submit that your standards are arbitrary and capricious. You have raised your standard of who can provide a valid opinion so high as to exclude the majority of players, likely excluding yourself.

Ironically, in attempting to show me up you have revealed the complete lack of intellectual integrity your argument has.

No that doesn’t exclude me. If I’m not plat or higher at this exact moment I’m within like 2 points (rank 100 ish lol). I also play a rev build nobody else in game plays that is actually not even good but I make it work obviously… As solo q btw(big point). You’re probably not quite sure how that distinguishes me from others but I won’t waste time explaining lol.

You aren’t addressing my argument. If a gold level player, who is above the average player ranking, is saying this build isn’t common or effective…then your argument is substantially weaker.

Say someone says “thief op” because a top 10 thief player beat them utterly. That isn’t really all that convincing because that player is much better, overall, at the actual game. That doesn’t make thief op because a really good player can use it to beat them.

Likewise, if you think this build is op, while ignoring the mid-high level players who never have issues with this build, only focusing on the bottom players who struggle with class mechanics and the top players who have reflexes and ability well above 90% of players, your argument lacks significant merit.

A lack of skill will usually result in loss. A large amount of skill will usually result in victory. The middle is where “op” actually has credible meaning. And throwing out gold opinions because you view yourself as really a platinum player…is questionable at best.

I can’t even.

Idk why I’m even arguing with you lol. Re-reading the OP you are obviously not part of the crowd that would see what’s going on.

I’ve beat everybody in this game multiple times before man, if that makes more sense to you like that.

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

The funny thing is everyone saying the build is easy to beat when I know for a fact every single person who said that in this thread would lose to maygi in a 1v2

I agree with this, and even after the acrobatics nerf, people would still get 1vX’d. People need to learn not to hit an Acrobatics thief, if they have condition overloads on them, but they don’t know how to stow their weapons. It’s not that it’s OP, it’s just the lack of knowledge people are lazy to obtain. Even after the nerfs, people are still complaining.

Jay, no one cares how good you say you are. If your measure of what matters excludes 90% of players you literally don’t have an argument.

This isn’t a masculinity contest over who has beat more people according to themselves on the internet. I have better things to do with my time. You may well be a good player, but I doubt condi d/d is a problem for you. Or for the majority of players who know what they are doing.

I get being challenged by this build. But that doesn’t make it op. I’ve fought this build and I’m not worried. If you are so much more skilled than me you shouldn’t have issues either.

I tried one of these for a while in WvW. It hardly OP. What you will find when you play one is you will beat a certain type of player everytime or you will lose badly everytime. There very little ability to raises ones level of play to deal with competent opponents.

The type of player you will beat is the type that stands under the death blossom AOE and madly swings away mashing his buttons even as the DB thief mashes his 3 and dodge.

I have never lost to one using p/d condition thief as I simply kite and stay at range easily cleansing conditions via stealth. D/D tends to rely on EA for cleanse. With p/d I simply load up a steal , time it and open the range letting him spin in place trying to cleanse by evading attacks I am not making.

I also do well against them with my p/p staff power build.

I rarely see these things anymore and not sure why there a concern.

Why are you talking about WvW this is about PvP

… Dagger/Dagger is a weapon set, not a build.

fishball.7204:

Why are you talking about WvW this is about PvP

Generally in WvW a build that is OP is even more noticeable. The same tactics used to beat it in WvW work in PvP. It has no extra special abilities in PVp. In fact given it has limited mobility and is intended to fight on point I think it would be easier to defeat with traps marks and the like dropped on the point.

Could YOU detail to me why this build is significantly better in Pvp and gves you such a problem?

I never said the build was OP or that I had a problem with it, all I’m saying is WvW doesn’t matter at all when people are talking about the build in PvP.

It’s like how symbolic DH is strong in PvP as a 1vX node holder but it’s useless in WvW because you aren’t fighting for nodes and WvW burst is more substantital due to food/more stats so sustain builds aren’t as strong (which also applies to the d/d thief in question).

In a more specific example, Maygi would push Lord on Foefire early and bad players would flock to defend it causing a snowball in the map in their favor and usually still getting the lord kill. In WvW you don’t really have to worry about defending an NPC when fighting the thief nor do you have to consider your team mates picking an unfavorable matchup to fight nor do you have to consider small scale team fights like 2v2/3v3.

WvW is just a bad frame of reference overall for PvP and has no relevance in the discussion.

Hardly OP. It’s just lame and annoying. Just like Vault spammers and Unload spammers. It’s a really lazy weapon set design. If you took away 4 other skills from these weapon sets they would still perform at 90% performance and that’s just sad from the game design point of view.
I think hate should be directed to the anet, not the players who discovered they can play decently against many people just by pressing 1 button.

If you want a build nerfed, do the following:

Advertise that spec to the public on forum and even give some tips on how to play it.

If it is indeed a low-effort high-return build, a lot players will play it and it will become a problem being complained about repeatedly. At that point, Anet will surely nerf it.

You know if they put a 3-4s cool down on death blossom, made it a reflect, evade and reflect lasted 1s this kind of troll silly high evade spam build wouldn’t be a thing and we could have a death blossom that actually does useful stuff. Could even up the damage so it actually works in a power build without having to worry about being spammed to win.

Yes I am aware you can dodge 3 times between each death blossom but after 10s you’d be out of dodges and no death blossom so have to back off. It basically means you couldn’t chain as many dodges and instead have to time them to be as effective as you are now.

ThatNAESLGuard.6238:

The funny thing is everyone saying the build is easy to beat when I know for a fact every single person who said that in this thread would lose to maygi in a 1v2

i’ll 1v1 maygi if i win you will quit playing pvp, agreed? she havent won against me in games i defended home.

martin.1653:

Hardly OP. It’s just lame and annoying. Just like Vault spammers and Unload spammers. It’s a really lazy weapon set design. If you took away 4 other skills from these weapon sets they would still perform at 90% performance and that’s just sad from the game design point of view.
I think hate should be directed to the anet, not the players who discovered they can play decently against many people just by pressing 1 button.

A whole lot of stuff is lame and annoying through each and every class. It takes more input on a thiefs part to press a button over and over again, then it does for those passives that exist on so many to kick in just because health under 50 percent.

Its not really the build its how stupid people are. One good player should be able to stalemate Maygi indefinitely while holding the point and eventually kill or chase him away. If some idiot is there being useless tell him to go and explain in chat when you get some time what to do from then on in the match when the situation arises.

We shouldn’t be in a place balance wise where there is 1 build that you can just hope to stalemate until they screw up. That’s not good balance.

That’s a legit tactic though. I mean Derek can stalemate forever on DH versus a team trying to 2v1 him on their home.

It doesn’t even take a perma evade build, you just need to have good spatial awareness and know your class.

Hey man, you are 100% right. Condi thief is so OP that I have lost more games because of them. They carry the other team so hard, but only when they are on my team. Literally they just sacrifice them selves to the Gods of PvP as an offering for the other team to win. I can’t carry them hard enough to make their build not make me loose. /sarcasm….

Condi thief is a cheese build that will work once and than fail every fight after that. The only thing it has going for it is that it isn’t used by ANYONE who wants to rank up, so when you see it you are surprised and might die once to it. After that, that poor kitten is going to die when he tries to jump in.

Whether its “legitimate” or not doesn’t matter, and frankly it doesn’t matter that its thief, or DH, or anything else. There shouldn’t be a build where your only option is to hope to stalemate them until they screw up. If they want to have that level of sustain, then their damage should be non existent, so you should be free to flat out ignore them if you wanted to.

Well that’s an argument for removing DH as a class too is my point. You can’t just ignore a DH built to sustain either, but your complaint is a thief build that actually can be ignored with sufficient cleanse. Just push it off point with some aoe.

It also goes down to sustained immobilize or timed stuns. I played a game once where I caught a d/d condition thief with an immobilize after their dodges ran out. I just kept immobilizing him and he died going “wtf is that immobilize.”