Guild Wars 2

Please guys.

The spec has lost a crapton of damage and is exactly where it needs to be.

BAD DD players can’t deal any dmg on it, and good ones can get quite a bit of sustain and might out of it.

Lets stop this unneeded QQ or risk dropping ele of the board completely.

I totally agree!
Also stop crying for burn nerf and take a god kitten condi remove! Honestly, the balance is better than it has been for a long time now.

d/d Eles still got the better deal of the bargain. For the microscopic nerfs, they now have better survival against cele signet necros, the alleged counter.

Which makes sense since you all complained about rof burning stacks and blinds.

D/d eles will forever remain op. Any other celestial build that countered it were gutted out of existence or made less effective.

Their sustain still broken as hell. Dont lie to yourselves.

I respectfully believe their sustain was the main problem, but thats just me.

ele sustain is still a problem. their amount of condi remove needs to be adressed (maybe 1 less source of regen?) and diamond skin needs a change bc this single trait counters every condi build.

besides that I think its fine now

an ele’s role is to sustain a fight.. idk why people don’t get this after over a year..
ele already lost a source of regeneration after the specialisation update.
and nobody plays diamond skin.

the brainless complaining on these forums is hilarious. instead of playing with matchups, rotating players where they have the best chance of winning they try to kill a build that is supposed to hold nodes 1v1, or even try to kill it on something like a burn guardian.

the same attitude just got ranger’s new toy nerfed yesterday. because some casual players paniced when they saw 15s of quickness or 25 might they spammed “ranger op” threads because of something that wasn’t even strong.

seriously, start using common sense and qq less.

Their healing is too high. Need to balance that too (nerf all healing by 35%) and they will be fine.

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Why dont some of you ppl use common sense and logic as to why anet hasn’t nerfed the ele sustain.

if they nerf the sustain you might as well ask them to delete the kitten class because it will literally die when breathed on.

What you need to ask is if anet can fix their rotten core mechanics that have pidgeon holed ele in PvP since day freaking 1 by forcing them to take water/arcane line.

Water/Arcane are pretty much required in ANY ele build that wants to survive longer than 5 seconds. The only ones that don’t use water/arcane are the burst eles , which, if you haven’t noticed, get downed in < 5 secs when focused upon

If anet would actually give other VIABLE OPTIONS other than water/arcane, ele’s might change. until then, you aren’t going to see a change in ele sustain.

SkiTz.4590:

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Why dont some of you ppl use common sense and logic as to why anet hasn’t nerfed the ele sustain.

if they nerf the sustain you might as well ask them to delete the kitten class because it will literally die when breathed on.

What you need to ask is if anet can fix their rotten core mechanics that have pidgeon holed ele in PvP since day freaking 1 by forcing them to take water/arcane line.

Water/Arcane are pretty much required in ANY ele build that wants to survive longer than 5 seconds. The only ones that don’t use water/arcane are the burst eles , which, if you haven’t noticed, get downed in < 5 secs when focused upon

If anet would actually give other VIABLE OPTIONS other than water/arcane, ele’s might change. until then, you aren’t going to see a change in ele sustain.

“Longer than 5 secons”. Are you serious? Eles are unkillable right now. Stop this nonsense and fix ele already

Ele is fine. There are heviet bunkers out there. The neerf was needed, bit less burning and less blind is enough. Diamand skin is a overall useless trait xD

If you tell me burst ele is immortal we dont need to continue the discussion. You never played ele, did you?

Ele’s are unkillable?! Seriously? Post-patch I had a match against 3 well played D/D eles and they were barely a threat to a Ham/GS – Bunker guard combo.

Some people will QQ no matter what -.-

Ele are probably the most balanced they have been at this moment. Still a potential threat, not too damaging provided you know what to do, just like any other effective build.

Fighting Ele 101;

Interrupt the rotation.
Spam condi/CC AFTER WATER ATTUNEMENT.
For the love of god, don’t stand in the fire.
A little condi cleanse never hurts anyone.
Don’t be afraid to damage him normally to kill him, don’t try and only burst, do sustained damage.
Don’t try to take one on if you are unable to do the above.

You can’t burst EVERYTHING down, don’t expect to.

Seriously, next we are gonna find the same people going ‘OMG cannot take out bunker guard! plz nerf anetzzz!! omg! I spammed dagger on ma teef and he not get down!!’

the nerfs had no effect on the ele, still the most broken spec in the game (of all time only behind pre-patch ele ). No meaningfull change – miniature nerf on drake combined with buff to RoF – equal or higher burn dmg now then pre-patch, about 3 stacks might lost (still keeps up 20), slightly less blind. still immortal, still too much dmg, still ridicoulusly easy to disengage-heal-reengage in 5s, still supreme mobility, teamsupport, condi cleanse, downstate. None of the teams running 2-3 eles (all teams basicly) actually dropped them because there is no reason. Same ole uncounterable godlike ele.

Better luck next patch when ever that may be

Xenlai.8694:

SkiTz.4590:

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Why dont some of you ppl use common sense and logic as to why anet hasn’t nerfed the ele sustain.

if they nerf the sustain you might as well ask them to delete the kitten class because it will literally die when breathed on.

What you need to ask is if anet can fix their rotten core mechanics that have pidgeon holed ele in PvP since day freaking 1 by forcing them to take water/arcane line.

Water/Arcane are pretty much required in ANY ele build that wants to survive longer than 5 seconds. The only ones that don’t use water/arcane are the burst eles , which, if you haven’t noticed, get downed in < 5 secs when focused upon

If anet would actually give other VIABLE OPTIONS other than water/arcane, ele’s might change. until then, you aren’t going to see a change in ele sustain.

“Longer than 5 secons”. Are you serious? Eles are unkillable right now. Stop this nonsense and fix ele already

i said BURST ELES. L2 READ.

Meaning those that don’t typically run water AND arcana….

Those ele’s that dont run water+arcana+cantrips typically go down in 5 secs or less (unless they are extremely talented like phantaram)

You are just a flat out BAD player….I’ve beaten PLENTY of DD eles… they aren’t unkillable at all… they do take longer time to kill but they have to hit their rotations perfectly … your job is to disrupt their rotation if you want to kill them….. seriously, quit whining and play better.

Before the patch, people were moaning about RoF being OP because you can’t avoid walking in an out of it. Now people are calling the change a buff. Wtf.

I think you missed the point. I was fine with Elementalist damage, might… Everything really. The only issue I ever had with them in the first place was their sustain. They can have all the damage they want, so long as you can kill them just as fast.

burning became easy to deal with from eles after we all got used to the patch, cuz it was just pretty much just one condi cleanse when you were in fire, and don’t walk through RoF multiple times. As others have said, their ability to sustain and stack boons is what makes them strong.

Zatoichi.1049:

burning became easy to deal with from eles after we all got used to the patch, cuz it was just pretty much just one condi cleanse when you were in fire, and don’t walk through RoF multiple times. As others have said, their ability to sustain and stack boons is what makes them strong.

Strong isn’t the problem, dominance is.

With the greatly reduced damage I think we need to stop whining and learn to face it now.

If it still is an issue in 3 months, TINY nerf again.

Novuake.2691:

Zatoichi.1049:

burning became easy to deal with from eles after we all got used to the patch, cuz it was just pretty much just one condi cleanse when you were in fire, and don’t walk through RoF multiple times. As others have said, their ability to sustain and stack boons is what makes them strong.

Strong isn’t the problem, dominance is.

With the greatly reduced damage I think we need to stop whining and learn to face it now.

If it still is an issue in 3 months, TINY nerf again.

personally I don’t have an issue with the current state of ele, cuz its my pvp choice for competitive play, and I think they excel in certain regards but aren’t godly in every situation. my favotie class is actuallyRanger. WHen you compare the two PvP wise it can be like, wtf…why is this class so much better?

i 2v1 pre nerf dd eles on my necro but that was with a tank build i made they really did not want to give up the point no matter what XD

To be fair ele has been and should be king of sustain. I think a lot of this is going to come back to learning fundamentals.

If Fire tree isn’t working, just use Earth Tree and call it skill

problem was dd sustain and they didn’t touch it pretty much

ofc rof was stupid and bugged af…but as i always said problem with ele is that they can survive pretty much forever, there are classes that can stack more burnings than pre “nerf” ele and they’re not even close to how braindead eles are…guess why? try to 1v2 forever with a condi engi or burn guard…see what happens, rof needed nerf mainly because it was totally bugged like getting insane stacks from nowhere while porting outside ring and so on paired with blinding ashes ofc (One example was thief getting burned AND blinded if stealing trough it…ending up with steal missing) Anyway rof now it’s even stronger is some situations…might nerf is fine but that’s not what makes eles so broken in conquest, but as usual anet has totally no clue on how to balance their game, not really much of a surprise after all

Seems people are ignoring the post, so I will quote to perhaps they can actually think about it when asking for nerf on sustain.

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Why dont some of you ppl use common sense and logic as to why anet hasn’t nerfed the ele sustain.

if they nerf the sustain you might as well ask them to delete the kitten class because it will literally die when breathed on.

What you need to ask is if anet can fix their rotten core mechanics that have pidgeon holed ele in PvP since day freaking 1 by forcing them to take water/arcane line.

Water/Arcane are pretty much required in ANY ele build that wants to survive longer than 5 seconds. The only ones that don’t use water/arcane are the burst eles , which, if you haven’t noticed, get downed in < 5 secs when focused upon

If anet would actually give other VIABLE OPTIONS other than water/arcane, ele’s might change. until then, you aren’t going to see a change in ele sustain.

Want to nerf ele sustain? Fine, but will need some serious buff since ele will be pretty much a paper without it. It is the same thing as people asking to completely remove stealth from thief, aegis from guard, confusion from mesmer, cc from warrior and etc.

Problem is people don’t really know how to fight a d/d ele. I have fought some with my staff ele and won. Why? Because I keep a track on their attunement rotations and when they move out from water is the perfect time to cc and bomb them out. Will always kill? No, but when the ele move out of the point and give you a free cap, your job is done regardless since it is a conquest mode.

Besides let’s not forget not everyone uses celestial on a d/d and that’s a cripple on the sustain. I’ve had a pack of 3 or more players chase me thought the whole match while using /s chat to say how cheesy I was and how deserved to be be zerged down for using a broken build and being bad at it since couldn’t live against 3. Well guess what? Hard to live against 3 when you are using barbarian amulet with strentgh runes and air/fire/earth! I’d down one of them before going down myself tho.

As long as people judge and have no real clue about class mechanics, this sort of threads will keep showing up. IMO the problem is and will always be the celestial gear. Anet didn’t pondered how much ele would benefit from it. They can’t nerf celestial because it is useless on other professions besides necro and engi and would be useless for those two as well if nerfed. If they nerf ele too much, will render the other builds completely unviable pushing even more players towards celestial d/d.

So a build/class that was so good many top teams used two of them is now perfectly fine because of some minor shaving. Give me a break.

keep sustain the same, don’t touch it for all i care. simply shave down the damage another notch. good players can STILL maintain 20+ stacks of might and go to town on everyone.

I bet every person on that balance team mains d/d ele

The hilarious thing about all the complaints about ele sustain is that that hasn’t even changed in the last year and a half. Even before specialization patch, the ar/water/x ele had strong sustain, except hardly anyone called it the godmode broken build that it’s being called now.

What changed after the specialization change? the Ar/water/X cele cantrip eles got more damage. And they are shaving in that direction.

People are complaining for no good reason.

I LOL’d so hard when I downed 3 ppl from dagger earth 5 in ranked. I stood on the engie healing turret when casting. Didn’t think I could get away with it.

If anybody gets hit by this skill he should stop playing. Its a rather useless one in a fight. You get to much damage during channeling and or interrupted and it is the esiest to dodge attack in the game.

Vapour.7348:

I bet every person on that balance team mains d/d ele

probably the opposite actually its quite possible that they simply arent aware that ele is too strong. None of the balance devs are particularly active on the forums so there is a big problem with communication, dunno how often they actually read any threads but you get maybe 1 balance team dev post a month (outside of technical questions) and almost as a rule they never express an opinion on how they see the balance, how they see each class or what plans they have. So it hard to judge how informed they are about balance.

They probably dont have time to watch a lot of competitive matches either (where everyone runs 2-3 eles and will continue to do so). Lot of the balance stuff is probably based on internal play, if nobody plays an ele at even average level, its possible they just arent aware of how op ele is or what the real problem is (sustain).

When they see there is too much complaining about a build they will eventually nerf it (sometimes its months, sometimes its a day like WHAO) almost at random it seems. Sometimes they get it right but sometimes you see builds completly trashed for no apparent reason, sometimes they change stuff that had nothing to with that build being OP, sometimes you see them do a whole rework to a useless skill but the rework remains just as useless, sometimes they just make a mini-tweak to lessen the noise a bit and leave actual balancing for some other time.

Take the vigor nerf from arcane – it doesnt hurt the d/d ele at all, d/d ele remains at 100% vigor. But ele builds that dont run 4x cantrip and cantrip trait are hurt by that change, and those builds were weak to begin with and almost non-present in the meta. I would love to hear why they thought this will help fix the d/d ele.

Balancing any game is hard. Devs are almost always bad at the game (its ofc expected, playerbase is vastly bigger then then the number of devs and players play more then the devs) and players too often give terrible feedback – they complain just because they lost a fight, they give bad feedback on purpose hoping it leads to buffs or nerfs they want, lot of them dont understand the problems, they are often rude etc.

Best course of action is to complain, complain, complain and hope it gets sorted out some day. More frequent balance passes that they announced should help. Even if its just a dice roll, some day the dice will fall favourably and the ele is brought at least down to meta tier from its current meta^2 state.

azyume.6321:

Seems people are ignoring the post, so I will quote to perhaps they can actually think about it when asking for nerf on sustain.

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Why dont some of you ppl use common sense and logic as to why anet hasn’t nerfed the ele sustain.

if they nerf the sustain you might as well ask them to delete the kitten class because it will literally die when breathed on.

What you need to ask is if anet can fix their rotten core mechanics that have pidgeon holed ele in PvP since day freaking 1 by forcing them to take water/arcane line.

Water/Arcane are pretty much required in ANY ele build that wants to survive longer than 5 seconds. The only ones that don’t use water/arcane are the burst eles , which, if you haven’t noticed, get downed in < 5 secs when focused upon

If anet would actually give other VIABLE OPTIONS other than water/arcane, ele’s might change. until then, you aren’t going to see a change in ele sustain.

Want to nerf ele sustain? Fine, but will need some serious buff since ele will be pretty much a paper without it. It is the same thing as people asking to completely remove stealth from thief, aegis from guard, confusion from mesmer, cc from warrior and etc.

Problem is people don’t really know how to fight a d/d ele. I have fought some with my staff ele and won. Why? Because I keep a track on their attunement rotations and when they move out from water is the perfect time to cc and bomb them out. Will always kill? No, but when the ele move out of the point and give you a free cap, your job is done regardless since it is a conquest mode.

Besides let’s not forget not everyone uses celestial on a d/d and that’s a cripple on the sustain. I’ve had a pack of 3 or more players chase me thought the whole match while using /s chat to say how cheesy I was and how deserved to be be zerged down for using a broken build and being bad at it since couldn’t live against 3. Well guess what? Hard to live against 3 when you are using barbarian amulet with strentgh runes and air/fire/earth! I’d down one of them before going down myself tho.

As long as people judge and have no real clue about class mechanics, this sort of threads will keep showing up. IMO the problem is and will always be the celestial gear. Anet didn’t pondered how much ele would benefit from it. They can’t nerf celestial because it is useless on other professions besides necro and engi and would be useless for those two as well if nerfed. If they nerf ele too much, will render the other builds completely unviable pushing even more players towards celestial d/d.

You know there are some middle values between “stupid sustain” and “not enough sustain”, right ?

Shadowflare.2759:

The hilarious thing about all the complaints about ele sustain is that that hasn’t even changed in the last year and a half. Even before specialization patch, the ar/water/x ele had strong sustain, except hardly anyone called it the godmode broken build that it’s being called now.

What changed after the specialization change? the Ar/water/X cele cantrip eles got more damage. And they are shaving in that direction.

People are complaining for no good reason.

The thing is, Ele sustain was already stupid back then. The difference is that back then, we also had cele engi and shoutbow to keep them in check. Now both of them are gone, leaving ele alone on top of the food chain.

Shadowflare.2759:

The hilarious thing about all the complaints about ele sustain is that that hasn’t even changed in the last year and a half. Even before specialization patch, the ar/water/x ele had strong sustain, except hardly anyone called it the godmode broken build that it’s being called now.

What changed after the specialization change? the Ar/water/X cele cantrip eles got more damage. And they are shaving in that direction.

People are complaining for no good reason.

Access to frequent blinds? Buff to evasive arcana heal? ele attunment changed to minor? 4s passive frost aura? free fire aura? when you do more dmg to the opponents, their dmg output drops (have to kite more, use defensive skills). All that happened with the spec patch and all of those buffed already super-strong sustain.
Plus running cele amulet, ele didnt suffer a hit to tough/vit/hp other amulets did from loosing trait-points.

And d/d ele was OP for years really, 1st WTS was won by a team stacking 2 cele cantrip d/d eles, that was long ago. It was just overshadowed by the shoutbow for a short amount of time.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

I totally agree!
Also stop crying for burn nerf and take a god kitten condi remove! Honestly, the balance is better than it has been for a long time now.

I see posts like this a lot. So many people don’t understand how condi clear works. You can take a condi clear with you, but you have no guarantee to remove burn. A good player will cover burns with other condis.

If you want people not to complain about burn stacking, then condi clear needs to remove the highest damaging condi first.

chibbi.3706:

You know there are some middle values between “stupid sustain” and “not enough sustain”, right ?

Point me one build that is in the middle with sustain that doesn’t use cantrip or water trait please.

d/d ele op pls nerf

Dd ele ring of fire actually has less counter play now for other bunkers. If there are 2 on point u will almost always have 4-5+ stacks of burning on you because of purely eles skill rotation.

The RoF change at a comptetive level was actually a buff. I wonder why……..(sarcasm)

lilz shorty.1879:

Dd ele ring of fire actually has less counter play now for other bunkers. If there are 2 on point u will almost always have 4-5+ stacks of burning on you because of purely eles skill rotation.

The RoF change at a comptetive level was actually a buff. I wonder why……..(sarcasm)

exactly this. not really possible to stay on point with 2 d/d eles spamming. doesn’t matter how much condi clear u have.

azyume.6321:

chibbi.3706:

You know there are some middle values between “stupid sustain” and “not enough sustain”, right ?

Point me one build that is in the middle with sustain that doesn’t use cantrip or water trait please.

I’m not saying there’s a build that has that value yet, i’m saying it exists and D/D ele can be brought to that value through some nerfs …

Nah. 100% sure DD cele ele meta will continue even with this nerf. This nerf is like just nothing. You can count on me and you will see DD cele ele on sPvP tourney in the future. If you cannot count on me, you will see that The Abjured NOT using it.

chibbi.3706:

azyume.6321:

chibbi.3706:

You know there are some middle values between “stupid sustain” and “not enough sustain”, right ?

Point me one build that is in the middle with sustain that doesn’t use cantrip or water trait please.

I’m not saying there’s a build that has that value yet, i’m saying it exists and D/D ele can be brought to that value through some nerfs …

The point is d/d only have the sustain because of:

1) Water trait
2) Cantrip
3) Celestial amulet

Nerf 1 and 2 and you will kill even more the other builds. Nerf d/d heals and the few other players out there that doesn’t use celestial will get a massive nerf.

Nerf celestial and problem solved for ele. However will create an even worse one with other professions. It is a moot point. Unless anet redesign the core making eles not dependable of arcana and water to actually be able to live, whatever they do will cause more harm to the builds than any good.

Edit: As an example: Blinding Ashes. The nerf was directed more towards d/d complains but actually hit s/x builds more than the first.

The biggest problem I had and still have with RoF was not the 3 burning stacks……It was the ridiculous 10s cd.

With 4s burning duration, there is only a tiny 6 sec break before you are bound for another round of 4s burning. If there are multiple d/d eles on point, you’re pretty much screwed.

Remember that RoF isn’t even a utility. Guards have a fire ring consecration utility but with a very long CD. Same for engie FT 4, long CD and easy to avoid and nowhere close to being as powerful.

If they were sincere about “balancing” the d/d ele, what they should have done is increase the CD of RoF to 30s traited. They could keep the old 3 burn stacks per passthru

azyume.6321:

chibbi.3706:

azyume.6321:

chibbi.3706:

You know there are some middle values between “stupid sustain” and “not enough sustain”, right ?

Point me one build that is in the middle with sustain that doesn’t use cantrip or water trait please.

I’m not saying there’s a build that has that value yet, i’m saying it exists and D/D ele can be brought to that value through some nerfs …

The point is d/d only have the sustain because of:

1) Water trait
2) Cantrip
3) Celestial amulet

Nerf 1 and 2 and you will kill even more the other builds. Nerf d/d heals and the few other players out there that doesn’t use celestial will get a massive nerf.

Nerf celestial and problem solved for ele. However will create an even worse one with other professions. It is a moot point. Unless anet redesign the core making eles not dependable of arcana and water to actually be able to live, whatever they do will cause more harm to the builds than any good.

Edit: As an example: Blinding Ashes. The nerf was directed more towards d/d complains but actually hit s/x builds more than the first.

That’s a fair point.
Although, the thing that makes D/D ele so frustrating is that they have this ridiculous sustain on top of ridiculous mobility. Which makes them very hard to hit (further improving their sustain), and makes them able to disengage, sustain back to full health, and reengage.
Celestial staff ele is also very sustainable, but it doesn’t have as much mobility which makes is a lot less frustrating to play against.

So imo a fair nerf would be to nerf D/D mobility, which would indirectly nerf their sustain.

Unless their is a way to nerf D/D’s sustain without touching other builds, but I don’t know how ele works enough to give suggestions about that. (maybe nerf D/D water #5 ?)

Shadowflare.2759:

The hilarious thing about all the complaints about ele sustain is that that hasn’t even changed in the last year and a half. Even before specialization patch, the ar/water/x ele had strong sustain, except hardly anyone called it the godmode broken build that it’s being called now.

What changed after the specialization change? the Ar/water/X cele cantrip eles got more damage. And they are shaving in that direction.

People are complaining for no good reason.

ele sustain is broken since way more than one year ago (Pretty much when celestial amulet got buffed from totally useless to meta)….people didn’t complain that much cause at that time celestial shoutbow and celestial engis could pretty much fight dd eles with fair chances, people started complaining after shoutbow and cele engi got nerfed while eles got buffed (Anet balance at its best) with trait patch making them godmode 1v1 (Cause the only 2 specs that were able to fight them 1v1 on point got nerfed) and able to 1v2 while having the second best mobility in game, tf support, broken downstate when paired with sa thief or mesmer portal and on and on and on…

ya all never stop complaining when warrior was being nerfed into the ground.

so yes, i will not stop either until ele is nerfed into the ground.

Thats the point, a class is to good, it gets nerfed to a good spot inside the meta. But every time a player sees someone on this class doing fine everybody goes: “Oh no, he is still op!!!!” Everything ele does can be done better by another class now, ele is just sth in the middle that is quite flexible, as it has always been. Even at gamerelease i run dd ele in wvw frontline and survived, thats nothing new at all. Ele can and is used as a bunker, bunkers are nothing bad and ele doesnt have more sustain than guardian or warrior. Now the damage and perma blinds are also gone. So what is left? The same that other classes have.

SkiTz.4590:

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Yeah so without water and arcana eles would be like thieves. Playing D/D cele ele is probably the easiest time I’ve had in pvp. It’s very cosy and always a good choice no matter what you get on your team. 1v1 is usually a sure win or the opposition gets frustrated with the amount of sustain they decide to leave me alone. But one thing is for sure; D/D makes other pvp ele builds pale in comparison so unless the other builds were buffed considerably, D/D should stay the way it is now. Just my opinion though.

Maris.3164:

SkiTz.4590:

Jesus christ some of you are ridiculously bad at understanding LOWEST HP + LOWEST ARMOR = INSTA DEAD WITHOUT SUSTAIN FROM WATER/ARCANA LINE

Yeah so without water and arcana eles would be like thieves.

You mean thieves without stealth. Just think about that for a moment.