Guild Wars 2

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Add healing and WvW poison shot can give interesting dynamics to the fight.

• Poison cloud duration needs to adjust to power variant so people will actually pick it, while shorten its remaining duration so it doesn’t give cap advantages too much. I think having multiple stacks on short duration is sufficient, something like 3 stacks for 1s and pulses 3 times?
• Healing shot could probably go like 1.5k heal on hit and 3s regen or something like that. They sound OP on paper but need to weigh out lost of opportunity with hard hitting physical shot.

I think currently the time taken to kill treb is balanced for power players, just need to adjust condi players to them. The time was sufficient so that people who was on treb can decap/cap points if they decide to rotate. If its too easy to destroy the treb then people who was on it will be at significant disadvantage when challenged.

Treb dies entirely too fast currently. 3-5 seconds for a power thief, 8 seconds for power herald with sword/shield or about 6-7 for hammer, less than 10 seconds for symbolic guardian, less than 4 seconds for ele (since they can do a lightning overload then drop lava font or meteor shower on it and bail knowing it’ll die in short order).

It should take at least twice as long as it does to run up the ramp, which without teleport/shadowstep is about 9 seconds with no movement speed increase or around 7 seconds with 33% movement speed increase and OOC, or around 12 seconds with no +move and in combat.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
• Rotation speed increase
• Remove Treb completely
• Faster fire rate
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle

Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

If you insist on keeping the treb I would rather see it be akin to skyhammer where you don’t control it directly but have to complete some special objective at certain points in the game. Whichever team completes them gets to pick a node for the treb to shoot at.

Since that is not at all likely, if you add a shot add a completely new mechanic (for special objectives at least). Have the shot nullify conditions and/or boons on everyone inside the effected area for a few seconds. It provides a fantastic new tactic that I think could be very interesting to watch in high level play.

Turning home to far, same speed as it currently turns is fine.

20 seconds sounds good.

Treb on Kyhlo seems fine to me. The only issue I have is that it’s not affected by conditions.

Truthfully though, this is micromanaging. There are a number of other issues that need attention more than this does.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
• Rotation speed increase
• Remove Treb completely
• Faster fire rate
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle

Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

I really appreciate the efforts you folks are taking in improving our maps. I like khylo as is, but as others suggest, I think it’s be appropriate to have trebs take dmg from condi and crit. I don’t care so much for crit, but if you can blow it up with condis, then crit might need built in to keep damage types commiserate in how effectively one can blow up a treb. The time it takes to kill the treb is fine… meaning if we’re ultimately doing more damage to it. treb HP might want to be looked at so it takes about as long

All that noise said, if you’re going to add a new type of shot into the game, I might suggest being able to catapult the player in lieu of firing a shot. Might make for some interesting rotational changes. Most folks might not like that though. Probably would be a design and glitch nightmare anyway.

Either way, thank you again.

I think it’s the best designed secondary mechanic of all the pvp maps. It’s not game changing to the point of being mandatory, it takes skill, timing, and rotation knowledge to truly capitalize on. And your team can still function the same without it. Secondary mechanics like foefire are awful because it’s something that doesn’t sway momentum, it changes the entire match because of some pve nonsense that players essentially have 0 control over. I’d personally rather see more interactive mechanics like trebuchet substituted for the mechanics of some of the other maps in order to make the huge plays less pve based and more about capitalizing on your teams knowledge of the game and how to maximize the mechanic to your benefit without overstaying your welcome.

Edit: I’d be mostly against the idea of having a support focused shot put into the game as we have neough support and defensive stuff already and that would make treb too mandatory for gameplay. Maybe buff rotation speed and maybe let condis hurt it (I’d be against it because i think it forces teams to not only have a dps focused char but also forces them to rotate their players properly rather than being able to stack condi tanks everywhere and faceroll wins.

Khylo is my favorite map and I can’t say 100% why but I beleave that adding new ammo or adding stuff to it will ruin it.

Atm I think the treb feels like a tactical utility, use it when needed and leave it when not needed. Someone is trebbing, we need to send one to take care of it and so on. What suggestions I liked and I would like to add is;

- A timed circle like some big enemy aoe’s have in HoT (red circle with a growing yellow in the middle.

- Make a cap point at the treb (or channeling) making it destroyed when someone neutralize the cap and repaired when capped. So no build will be better than the other to destroy the treb.

- when treb notice says ’ incoming’ or whatever it also pings on map where the shot is hitting.

Please do not make the treb easier to use aka autotargeting home, mid and far.
- This would take ANY skill away you need to aim propper. For new players or players who do not know how to aim, there are trebs in HotM to practise.

Please do not add another way to reach the treb equaly for every class.
- It for sure favoures teleport classes (thief, mesmer). We need to get away with the
attitude/ thinking that every class can do everything equal.
Example: If you play a slow moving class (i.e necro) you can not expect to reach
objects as fast as a thief or mesmer.

Please do not let conditions affect the treb.
- Same as last point. If you play a condition heavy build you should never rotate to
destroy the treb ever. Use your AOE condis in teamfight. Again not every class should
do everything on the same level.

Please do not add additional/different ammo etc.
- As others stated, fix powercreep first (tone down HOT specs) than you can make
those small changes.

The only thing that could be addressed is the rotation of the treb. It feels a bit clunky.
I for myself am happy with the treb mechanic as it is. There are scenarios when a treb is usefull and there are scenarios where the treb is useless. A team can win/lose a match using the treb and a team can win/lose a match not using the treb.

In my oppinion this map with this mechanic is balanced.

Treb is fine as it is. Allowing condi dealers able to deal damage to it is all the changes we really need.

I’d rather you guys not add or change things just for the sake of changing things. Especially when it’s something that no one has really complained about. If you must change something on Kyhlo, find a way to fiddle with the camera angles at mid, and make it so necros can’t charge up shroud from the buildings.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

Just wanted to jump in here and give a quick summary list of some of the feedback in this thread.

• Have treb take damage from condi’s and crits
• Rotation speed increase
• Remove Treb completely
• Faster fire rate
• Different treb amno that supports allies on points
• Teleport skill drop the siege bundle

Remember that this thread is a discussion between myself and you the community. I can’t promise any of the suggestions will be implemented or when. However, I am reading the thread and taking the feedback very seriously and passing it along to the PvP Team.

Now some additional questions:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?
• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?
• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

Thank you all for participating in the discussion and keeping is constructive.

Hugh, the key problem about boosting damage or rotation/Fire speed is how to balance treb at high and low tier.

I agree now treb at higher level is almost useless but buffing it too much can be absolutely too strong in low tier.

This is something you need to consider, be carefull.

In general i think rotation speed and faster Fire rate only for side nodes would be enough.

There is too much difference right now about trebbing mid and trebbing sides.

Do not remove the treb, please. It’s a defining element of Kyhlo and adds quite a bit of gameplay to it.

Don’t know how I feel about adding a skill to it. Maybe poison?

Rotation speed is fine to me. It’s a powerful tool and it shouldn’t rotate quicker than now.

because of all the HoT dodge/block b/s treb needs to be unavoidable and unblockable everything else about it is fine as is

oh also its great when announcer yells as treb fires at your location but making his american soldier-ish voice lower would be nice

if you add the different ammo types maybe you could split CC and dmg ?

also yes treb should be affected from condis and have a red ring for where it hits

over all that map is one of the better balanced ones
as the treb does not influence the game so much its much easier to react to

could you take a look at the small jumping puzzle ? it is easier on one side

First of all i believe trebuchet is great and makes the map different than the other maps.
Treb makes Khylo my favorite map since it gives lots of diversity on how you play it.
It is no overpowered at all! At small divisions it seems like you can win the game only with trebing but as you go up to divisions treb is no overpowered at all. Some teams do not use it at all.

What i would like is maybe giving an option of different ammo shooting.
Besides the way it works right now it could give an option shooting different kind of ammo that will deal less damage but have other effects, like poison, burn and chill.

i would make the treb hits also removing 1 tick from cap point

thus even if you have 4v5 than 1 player can decap empty point from range or prevent cap point in team fight – but if so no dmg should be done

regarding dmg like in wvw – burning aoe, bleed and cripple and pure dmg and kd

to kill a treb it should take about 30 sec condi or direct dmg for 1 player
to rotate treb from home to far should take 3 sec

maybe add also arrow cart near each point could be interesting

I think exactly replicating how the WvW trebuchet works could not be a terrible idea. You can rotate between rock and cow rounds to get a higher fire rate, you can fire only rocks or cows because they fit the situation, and you can throw the water fields on a long CD.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?

If I had to pick one, it would be cowshot.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?

I think the current spin time is reasonable. Playing home+far is, I think, a healthy strategy to have available for countering heavy Treb play.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?

This is somewhat difficult because the trebuchet still acts as a physical item with LOS. Either way, I think 15 seconds is fairly healthy for pure power if it acts as a LOS item, and less if it does not. Condi rampup can be more complicated between classes/builds and you probably have a better idea how that turns out.

I think the channel treb mechanic is a bit inconsistent for attacking certain points, and having it turn and not be accurate on a point also might diminish the effect.

Why not restructure it in a way that it will always hit a set distance (directly on the point) and you can select 1 of the three points to directly attack? In other words, no more turning mechanic per say, but say if it were targeting far, the abilities would be something like ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Turn to Mid’ ‘Fire Far’. Then if you selected Turn to Mid in this case, it would turn like before at the same speed to mid, and change the options to ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Fire Mid’ ‘Turn to Far’.

Make all the shots the exact drop distance to the center of the point, remove the channel gauge and obviously implement like a 2-3 second mandatory channel, plus there’s enough space for the ammo abilities mentioned.

Sykper.6583:

I think the channel treb mechanic is a bit inconsistent for attacking certain points, and having it turn and not be accurate on a point also might diminish the effect.

Why not restructure it in a way that it will always hit a set distance (directly on the point) and you can select 1 of the three points to directly attack? In other words, no more turning mechanic per say, but say if it were targeting far, the abilities would be something like ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Turn to Mid’ ‘Fire Far’. Then if you selected Turn to Mid in this case, it would turn like before at the same speed to mid, and change the options to ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Fire Mid’ ‘Turn to Far’.

Make all the shots the exact drop distance to the center of the point, remove the channel gauge and obviously implement like a 2-3 second mandatory channel, plus there’s enough space for the ammo abilities mentioned.

So remove any and all skill from using the treb, right now with treb being skill based makes it so a team has to make a choice chance someone being crap at aiming or have them help on point, not provide almost automatic point coverage with treb.

The treb is very balanced imo. Zerging is a strategy that works to often in pvp (especially that kitten lame foefire map!). Having the treb, makes ppl rotate smarter, think twice before they go to mid etc.

The damage is good (not to high, most of time doenst kill ppl in less then 3-4 shots.). I practised a long time with treb and it’s now basic intelligence how to use it and how much power it requires. I don’t think a faster rotation speed is needed, it would make treb camping a bit to strong.

I have only one gripe, and that’s if enemy is very wisely using treb, you wanna kill it, but you are on condi build, ouch! will take ages to kill treb.

A minor grip: (seen in other players post also) repairing is to time consuming (for actually creating a 4 vs 5 temporary).

Also, seeing the thread again, new animo would definitely not hurt the mode (nor make it overpowered i think, just be careful, to not give to much healing on it like wvw one).

@ Hugh: Plz do not change Khylo a lot. Only do minor fixes. This map is good! Some player just don’t like it playstyle (very rotation/sneaky based)

I rather have that you work on capricorn and include it in ranked.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey Everyone,

I wanted to ask the community what your thoughts are on the secondary mechanic of Khylo: The Trebuchet.

The treb gives your team map wide big area damage and crowd control, at the expense of a single player controlling it. Each team gets their own treb near their base and is useable the entire duration of the match unless it is destroyed. If the treb is destroyed a player needs to run a repair kit from a designated area to the treb to repair it back to full health.

What do you like about it?
What do you think needs improving?
If needed, what would you change?
If needed, what would you add?
If needed, what would you remove?

I think for the most part its fine. Except Mesmer being able to take the repair kit and portal back to the treb.

The treb is perfectly balanced as it is.

The only good idea would be to add a telegraph so you can see exactly where you’re about to fire since the reason many people don’t treb is because they don’t know how to aim it. Adding condi ammunition is a terrible idea.

sephiroth.4217:

Please remove the PvE crap from PvP, thankyou.

Otherwise don’t change Khylo, it’s the only map where I can go strait to enemy treb, kill the stupid map mechanic and just have a game against 5 other players with no PvE clutch bullkitten.

Better yet

How about fixing the clock tower? Camera angles get whack inside that thing because it’s so enclosed, people accidently throw skills on the roof and then there’s targeting and path obstructions from sitting near the windows.

Then there’s also unfair pathing that people can abuse with blink and many other skills that teleport you from GROUND FLOOR to the roof of clock tower.

Hammerguard.9834:

Fix your classes first. And I’m not even talking about balance, I mean build diversity. Give me terror necro and sword/dagger thief back.

Terrormancer is still a thing isn’kitten You just need to time skills a little better rather than spam fear and to rely on boon corruption timing a bit more.

until its a thief on the treb who repairs within 5 seconds of it being destroyed. meaning one of our players has to go off point to take it out again. and again and camp it.

sophiewhite.3149:

sephiroth.4217:

Please remove the PvE crap from PvP, thankyou.

Otherwise don’t change Khylo, it’s the only map where I can go strait to enemy treb, kill the stupid map mechanic and just have a game against 5 other players with no PvE clutch bullkitten.

Better yet

How about fixing the clock tower? Camera angles get whack inside that thing because it’s so enclosed, people accidently throw skills on the roof and then there’s targeting and path obstructions from sitting near the windows.

Then there’s also unfair pathing that people can abuse with blink and many other skills that teleport you from GROUND FLOOR to the roof of clock tower.

Hammerguard.9834:

Fix your classes first. And I’m not even talking about balance, I mean build diversity. Give me terror necro and sword/dagger thief back.

Terrormancer is still a thing isn’kitten You just need to time skills a little better rather than spam fear and to rely on boon corruption timing a bit more.

until its a thief on the treb who repairs within 5 seconds of it being destroyed. meaning one of our players has to go off point to take it out again. and again and camp it.

Camping enemy treb? Is this a thing?

Honestly: Just remove it. In most cases it’s useless anyway and only becomes somewhat useful when there is a big fight (at least 3v3) in mid. In those cases its main effect is to make the random cc overspam, which is already annoying anyway, even more effective, because it can prevent you from being able to dodge the treb shot in time.

I’d prefer another secondary mechanic, maybe similar to the bell on Capricorn which is one of the better ones imo.

I honestly think tereb as is should be removed, make a new secondary mechanic that has treb shots fly in and blow up parts of the map, since that’s one of the cooler, yet never witnessed, parts of Khylo

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sykper.6583:

I think the channel treb mechanic is a bit inconsistent for attacking certain points, and having it turn and not be accurate on a point also might diminish the effect.

Why not restructure it in a way that it will always hit a set distance (directly on the point) and you can select 1 of the three points to directly attack? In other words, no more turning mechanic per say, but say if it were targeting far, the abilities would be something like ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Turn to Mid’ ‘Fire Far’. Then if you selected Turn to Mid in this case, it would turn like before at the same speed to mid, and change the options to ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Fire Mid’ ‘Turn to Far’.

Make all the shots the exact drop distance to the center of the point, remove the channel gauge and obviously implement like a 2-3 second mandatory channel, plus there’s enough space for the ammo abilities mentioned.

So remove any and all skill from using the treb, right now with treb being skill based makes it so a team has to make a choice chance someone being crap at aiming or have them help on point, not provide almost automatic point coverage with treb.

Good. Remove ‘skill’ from a mechanic that ultimately promotes a lack of PvP, make it just like the other map objectives that aren’t supposed to be impacted by how well a player can hold down a button.

The Treb in its current state is far too impacted by how well a player knows how to use the channel gauge, whether they are playing seriously or trolling, etc. Making it more streamline much like how the Skyhammer was changed to an objective circle:

- Removes much of the player disparity when using the treb, as long as a player commits to it the treb will always target one of the three points directly to hit upon a key-press.
- Diminishes the ability of the treb to interact with fights in-between points, or new players failing to play the map mechanic to its fullest potential from the get-go.

It is stupidly designed right now, No Treb is better than the current Treb, my change would at least make it relevant and notable. Not to mention the other team can see how the treb is faced and make adjustments to how long it takes to rotate to a different point for pressure.

Sykper.6583:

The Treb in its current state is far too impacted by how well a player knows how to use the channel gauge.

Why is that a bad thing? Players who know how to use it good, players who don’t practice at it until they get better. Until then, don’t waste their time getting it.

Not to mention all the fun hotjoin matches I get when I get to sit on treb and kill people in the courtyards or knock them off the jumping puzzle.

Sykper.6583:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sykper.6583:

I think the channel treb mechanic is a bit inconsistent for attacking certain points, and having it turn and not be accurate on a point also might diminish the effect.

Why not restructure it in a way that it will always hit a set distance (directly on the point) and you can select 1 of the three points to directly attack? In other words, no more turning mechanic per say, but say if it were targeting far, the abilities would be something like ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Turn to Mid’ ‘Fire Far’. Then if you selected Turn to Mid in this case, it would turn like before at the same speed to mid, and change the options to ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Fire Mid’ ‘Turn to Far’.

Make all the shots the exact drop distance to the center of the point, remove the channel gauge and obviously implement like a 2-3 second mandatory channel, plus there’s enough space for the ammo abilities mentioned.

So remove any and all skill from using the treb, right now with treb being skill based makes it so a team has to make a choice chance someone being crap at aiming or have them help on point, not provide almost automatic point coverage with treb.

Good. Remove ‘skill’ from a mechanic that ultimately promotes a lack of PvP, make it just like the other map objectives that aren’t supposed to be impacted by how well a player can hold down a button.

The Treb in its current state is far too impacted by how well a player knows how to use the channel gauge, whether they are playing seriously or trolling, etc. Making it more streamline much like how the Skyhammer was changed to an objective circle:

- Removes much of the player disparity when using the treb, as long as a player commits to it the treb will always target one of the three points directly to hit upon a key-press.
- Diminishes the ability of the treb to interact with fights in-between points, or new players failing to play the map mechanic to its fullest potential from the get-go.

It is stupidly designed right now, No Treb is better than the current Treb, my change would at least make it relevant and notable. Not to mention the other team can see how the treb is faced and make adjustments to how long it takes to rotate to a different point for pressure.

It’s stupid because it requires practice to use, and not all that much practice to figure out distances, especially since they have a training site that doesn’t impact any matches if players want to get better, in good hands it is very impactful and should be should strategically, not to be spammed for easy cc point control.

What you want will make it mind numbing point click point control, that requires no thought to use and no repercussions for being bad with the mechanic.

I don’t get the skill argument for treb.

If skill were so important for treb use, it would be used more often in higher tiers of pvp but it’s not. And the reason why it’s not used is because by the time you know how to use the treb properly, you’re more useful in a teamfight or a 1v1. Unless you’re a spirit weapon guard or a gs necro or something.

Kuya.6495:

I don’t get the skill argument for treb.

If skill were so important for treb use, it would be used more often in higher tiers of pvp but it’s not. And the reason why it’s not used is because by the time you know how to use the treb properly, you’re more useful in a teamfight or a 1v1. Unless you’re a spirit weapon guard or a gs necro or something.

…that’s not why it’s unused in higher tiers.

It’s unused in higher tier because of the time it takes you away from the fights, and the effects and damage it deals is kitten easy to dodge. 1 trebber is not the equivalent of 1 player fighting with the team. In the time it takes for you to get to treb, and throw it, your team has been outnumbered for at least 20-30 seconds which is already risky enough. Your single shot every few seconds is not enough to make up for that.

But if you buff treb to the point it’s worth it enough for better players to go for, then it becomes OP in lower levels.

Vicky.4563:

Kuya.6495:

I don’t get the skill argument for treb.

If skill were so important for treb use, it would be used more often in higher tiers of pvp but it’s not. And the reason why it’s not used is because by the time you know how to use the treb properly, you’re more useful in a teamfight or a 1v1. Unless you’re a spirit weapon guard or a gs necro or something.

…that’s not why it’s unused in higher tiers.

It’s unused in higher tier because of the time it takes you away from the fights, and the effects and damage it deals is kitten easy to dodge. 1 trebber is not the equivalent of 1 player fighting with the team. In the time it takes for you to get to treb, and throw it, your team has been outnumbered for at least 20-30 seconds which is already risky enough. Your single shot every few seconds is not enough to make up for that.

But if you buff treb to the point it’s worth it enough for better players to go for, then it becomes OP in lower levels.

We’re saying the same thing but ok.

The solution might be to give the treb multiple ammo types that require communication and knowledge to use effectively so the value of the treb scales with the skill level of play. The ammo needs to be highly situational.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sykper.6583:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sykper.6583:

I think the channel treb mechanic is a bit inconsistent for attacking certain points, and having it turn and not be accurate on a point also might diminish the effect.

Why not restructure it in a way that it will always hit a set distance (directly on the point) and you can select 1 of the three points to directly attack? In other words, no more turning mechanic per say, but say if it were targeting far, the abilities would be something like ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Turn to Mid’ ‘Fire Far’. Then if you selected Turn to Mid in this case, it would turn like before at the same speed to mid, and change the options to ‘Turn to Home’ ‘Fire Mid’ ‘Turn to Far’.

Make all the shots the exact drop distance to the center of the point, remove the channel gauge and obviously implement like a 2-3 second mandatory channel, plus there’s enough space for the ammo abilities mentioned.

So remove any and all skill from using the treb, right now with treb being skill based makes it so a team has to make a choice chance someone being crap at aiming or have them help on point, not provide almost automatic point coverage with treb.

Good. Remove ‘skill’ from a mechanic that ultimately promotes a lack of PvP, make it just like the other map objectives that aren’t supposed to be impacted by how well a player can hold down a button.

The Treb in its current state is far too impacted by how well a player knows how to use the channel gauge, whether they are playing seriously or trolling, etc. Making it more streamline much like how the Skyhammer was changed to an objective circle:

- Removes much of the player disparity when using the treb, as long as a player commits to it the treb will always target one of the three points directly to hit upon a key-press.
- Diminishes the ability of the treb to interact with fights in-between points, or new players failing to play the map mechanic to its fullest potential from the get-go.

It is stupidly designed right now, No Treb is better than the current Treb, my change would at least make it relevant and notable. Not to mention the other team can see how the treb is faced and make adjustments to how long it takes to rotate to a different point for pressure.

It’s stupid because it requires practice to use, and not all that much practice to figure out distances, especially since they have a training site that doesn’t impact any matches if players want to get better, in good hands it is very impactful and should be should strategically, not to be spammed for easy cc point control.

What you want will make it mind numbing point click point control, that requires no thought to use and no repercussions for being bad with the mechanic.

What I want is a mechanic that serves as a fundamental part of that map at all levels, as other posters have mentioned, good hands aren’t touching the kitten thing at high levels.

It doesn’t need to do more CC, or more damage. I am addressing the flaw in having something like a map mechanic being impacted by practice rather than simply playing the mechanic itself.

It doesn’t behave the same way regardless of who uses it, that’s an issue I have with it. Every other map mechanic on the other maps do behave the same way.

Kuya.6495:

We’re saying the same thing but ok.

The solution might be to give the treb multiple ammo types that require communication and knowledge to use effectively so the value of the treb scales with the skill level of play. The ammo needs to be highly situational.

Not quite.

At the lowest of low level tiers, no one uses trebs because no one knows how. At some point, someone learns how to use it and suddenly treb is OP OP OP.

At low level tier, people go for treb and use it. They even repair it. They even have people standing guard over it. Treb is love. Treb is life.

At mid level tiers, people start learning how to play around treb and dodge it. Less people use it, but you still have that one idiot who goes for it.

At higher level tiers, no one uses it.

If you buff treb so you don’t even need to aim it, it will crush everyone from low level and below. It will become an increased annoyance at mid level and no change in high level.

Increase the damage, speed or anything, and that will exacerbate the problem. Keep buffing it until it’s worth it for a team to fight outnumbered and people in high levels will use it. By then its Treb Wars 2 everywhere else. Battle of Treb.

As it is, treb is balanced. The skill level of people using it is like a bell curve, which is fine. Less in the beginning, more in the middle, less at the end.

What do you like about it?

• It actually affects the battle… if you use it properly.

What do you think needs improving?

• It could rotate a bit faster.
• The Turn skills should go on cooldown after firing, since it won’t turn while the Fire button is recharging and the trebuchet is returning to its normal position anyways.
• Its targeting could be improved.
  • It could get an aiming indicator. An arc visible only to trebuchet user the that shows the changing projectile trajectory as you channel the Fire button.
  • Or the the trajectory could be set with one button, then saved, and fire with a 4th button.
  • Or become ground targeted with a large field of view to see all 3 points. This is not WvW. We don’t have precisely all the time in the world to aim, and we’ll often get paired with someone who doesn’t know how to aim properly, and with ground target they have to be able to aim at least a bit better.

If needed, what would you change?

• The AoE circle should show timing better, with one of those orange indicators that show a circle growing and filling another circle from the center and when both diameters met the hit lands.

If needed, what would you add?

• At least one other alternate ammunition with condition damage. Like rotting cows.
• A ping telling allies what point are you attacking with the tebuchet

If needed, what would you remove?

• Nothing at this point.

Many of these changes could be applied to WvW trebuchets too.

“If you could add one ammo type to the treb (poison shot, healy shot, etc.) what would it be?”

burn shot applying around the same amount of damage as the normal damage shot and instead of cc have it remove boons

heal shot should have a big cooldown. and have a effect like healing rain removing condis, giving regen and being a blast field as well as giving a boon that helps you revive downed allys. this should not be spammable and should not heal that much or your never get a tank of point, it should just be used to buy extra time if u have 2 players v 3 on mid

“How long (in seconds) do you think it should take the treb to turn from Home to Far?”

i would say cut around 1-2 seconds off the rotation speed nothing massive

“How long (in seconds) do you think a damage dealer (either physical or condi) should take to kill a treb?”

i play a full zerk war pure glass and i have to do 2 full damage rotations to take out a treb so yah i would say cut around 30% of its hp. condi/zerk should destroy at the same speed

and finaly i think if your going to make the treb a little more useful as a mechanic you should look at how their repaired becz atm mes is treb king. maybe have it so you dont need a repair kit anymore but the trebs can only be repaired at specific times lets say 5 mins after its destroyed. or have a node you have to fight for to get supplys to repair them

Ammo suggestions:

1. cleanse ammo: cleanses from 5-7 conditions from allies in range

2. stab ammo: grants allies stability in range. Not sure how much it should be. 3-5 stacks?

3. protection ammo: grants allies protection in range. Maybe more than 33%? A special protection buff? Should only apply to power damage, since the cleanse ammo is for countering condis.

Vicky.4563:

As it is, treb is balanced. The skill level of people using it is like a bell curve, which is fine. Less in the beginning, more in the middle, less at the end.

Is that healthy though?

Why even have a swing mechanic that is irrelevant at the extremes of gameplay, especially on a competitive level where the map is played consistently in Tourneys.

Saying its ‘balanced’ because of an arbitrary bell curve (that we can’t really validate ourselves) I believe is wrong. Instead we need to look at how to make the mechanic provide a valid trade-off, balancing risk versus reward, etc.

There really isn’t any other map mechanic that does this either. Not even Sva/Jotun and the Blue/Red Lords, being NPCs that are killed at varying degrees thanks to player builds and skills, come around the same manner as learning an irrelevant WvW skill not used anywhere else in SPvP. It’s too much of a break from typical SPvP ‘skills’ you would use anywhere else.

Treb needs help.

Please don’t ruin a decent map by trying to fix what isn’t currently broken. Thx.

Condi dmg should be able to deal dmg to the treb, other than that it’s fine and I’d rather see more class balance instead. Good idea on adding poison etc to treb but there things that need help more.
Edit: and a treb mechanic with different skills could also be added to a future PvP map, which would be more interesting to see.

I like the treb and often use it, maybe only for a few shots in mid at start. But if it´s destroyed, i don´t run to repair it. This is a wate of time and propably even more points to the oponent. If someone runs for treb repair it´s usually a loss ….
So remove the repair kit, it´s a beginnes trap. Increase turn speed. Ammo options would be very nice. A large water field and a poison field on 20s cd on 4+5 maybe.
And don´t screw treb. Secondary objectives that can turn a match enrich PvP.

I must say that I quite like the idea of launching the player to a point, which might bring people back into the game faster and provides some advanced use to the treb.

The repair kit seems very underwhelming and there’s very little to rare moments where its a good idea to repair it. I rather see it being repaired after 3 minutes (or whichever is balanced) after its being killed.

Dont turn it into skyhammer 2.0 where the unique effect is lost once again. Im not fond of objectives that fire themselves.

Armenthos.9682:

Make it so that it can take damage from conditions please. Allows all players then to have equal chance to take it out and not just power builds.

Totally agree with this. It is very frustrating to take out the enemy treb if playing a condi build because it takes forever to destroy it.

Well at least burning it down would be logic :-). But i feel it would be bad if a treb falls appart from nearby condi spam.

Wolfric.9380:

I like the treb and often use it, maybe only for a few shots in mid at start. But if it´s destroyed, i don´t run to repair it. This is a wate of time and propably even more points to the oponent. If someone runs for treb repair it´s usually a loss ….
So remove the repair kit, it´s a beginnes trap. Increase turn speed. Ammo options would be very nice. A large water field and a poison field on 20s cd on 4+5 maybe.
And don´t screw treb. Secondary objectives that can turn a match enrich PvP.

WHY??? Aren’t beginners supposed to learn from their mistakes? Why are you trying to dumb down this game? Water field, Posion field?? So more Power Creep?? kitten, these are the same people who are complaining about hot power creep!!

What do you like about it? Nothing…
What do you think needs improving? Nothing
If needed, what would you change? Get rid of it
If needed, what would you add? A hut in it’s place
If needed, what would you remove? No needed.

All gimmicks like the trebuchet should be removed from sPvP.

I think the best suggestion has been to remove the treb completely.

I only suggest this since treb clearly favors premades/coordinated teams more. It’s just another thing that puts soloers at a disadvantage.

Premades seem to be your target audience now anyways so I’m sure this is a bad suggestion.

The Treb is a nice mechanic; it gives flavor, but any decent pvp’er knows how to deal with it when the other team seems to be misusing it.

The repair tool is by far the most useless feature though. I’d agree with the conditions comments others made and would add that the repair kit should be removed and give the treb a simply rebirth time, not unlike the trebs from Stronghold.

EgyptRaider.3946:

The Treb is a nice mechanic; it gives flavor, but any decent pvp’er knows how to deal with it when the other team seems to be misusing it.

The repair tool is by far the most useless feature though. I’d agree with the conditions comments others made and would add that the repair kit should be removed and give the treb a simply rebirth time, not unlike the trebs from Stronghold.

The trebs in stronghold are repaired by spending supply. Maybe we could have a supply drop that spawns in a random place, only one, that could be used for either treb. You would carry it passively like in Stronghold and the only way you drop it would be a stomp.

Azukas.1426:

I think it is a royal waste of time in a match b/c having someone on it is actually detrimental to trying to win the game.

Good Rotations trump Treb play 100% of the time, and if I’m in a ranked match and see one of my teammates go treb…..I’m not nice to them about that decision

^This, I really think it needs buffing. You can spam it on middle no problem, but it is harder to judge when your looking at home or far. There are players who seem tom think that Treb is needed to win a match no matter what, and most can’t use it very well, as the only other time you will use a treb is a few events/story missions/WvW. I do think if it’s going to be in the map, it needs to me more user friendly. Not everyone have the exp on it that other do.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Azukas.1426:

I think it is a royal waste of time in a match b/c having someone on it is actually detrimental to trying to win the game.

Good Rotations trump Treb play 100% of the time, and if I’m in a ranked match and see one of my teammates go treb…..I’m not nice to them about that decision

^This, I really think it needs buffing. You can spam it on middle no problem, but it is harder to judge when your looking at home or far. There are players who seem tom think that Treb is needed to win a match no matter what, and most can’t use it very well, as the only other time you will use a treb is a few events/story missions/WvW. I do think if it’s going to be in the map, it needs to me more user friendly. Not everyone have the exp on it that other do.

Just ignore the fact HoTM has a Treb training area with different targets at Various distances and angles…. People could choose to get good at it but don’t

BlaqueFyre.5678:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Azukas.1426:

I think it is a royal waste of time in a match b/c having someone on it is actually detrimental to trying to win the game.

Good Rotations trump Treb play 100% of the time, and if I’m in a ranked match and see one of my teammates go treb…..I’m not nice to them about that decision

^This, I really think it needs buffing. You can spam it on middle no problem, but it is harder to judge when your looking at home or far. There are players who seem tom think that Treb is needed to win a match no matter what, and most can’t use it very well, as the only other time you will use a treb is a few events/story missions/WvW. I do think if it’s going to be in the map, it needs to me more user friendly. Not everyone have the exp on it that other do.

Just ignore the fact HoTM has a Treb training area with different targets at Various distances and angles…. People could choose to get good at it but don’t

I like to treb the NPC prfession area in HotM. I can waste that NPC engi!