Does Diamond skin need a nerf ?

Does Diamond skin need a nerf ?

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Except most diamond skin qq-ers are necromancer players like you who refuse to accept that you have counters and are not supposed to be able to win every 1v1.

Necros already have several hardcounters outside of tempests. Necros don’t need to have another counter.

Meanwhile tempests have no counterclass, yet at the same time tempests are shutting out any projectile heavy class, and any heavy condi class.

There is a reason the meta has been stagnant, and that’s because Tempests are holding the keys to the meta, and they ain’t letting anyone else in.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

actually Elementalists are totally fine simply because this game is all about trash ranged classes spamming projectiles or showing off their mad condi skills

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: Nina.4317

Nina.4317

definitelly need a rework, immune to condi is justs not esport

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Posted by: Mikuchan.7261

Mikuchan.7261

for me no ( i don’t play ele often ) . the reason is simple . if you can not go through diamond skin with your direct damage it is a problem of your build…. too lower direct damage .

What about those builds that open with a condi bomb?

Simple.
Don’t open with a condi bomb and get help from teammates if you can’t do a few points of damage yourself.

Positioning.
Communication.
Tactics.

Don’t try to solo an ele that’s sitting on a point. Go 5v4 elsewhere instead.

Don’t try to bash your face into everything you see, analyze the opponent and change your tactic to suit it.

It’s a team game, not pve faceroll.

Beating an ele is easy if you just do it right.

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

There is a reason the meta has been stagnant, and that’s because Tempests are holding the keys to the meta, and they ain’t letting anyone else in.

+1
you think a rework of DS will kill Ele and make reaper OP in the meta so it will make warrior and thief usefull again because there are still pretty good vs reaper.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

I like how eles try to defend diamond skin saying it doesn#t affect power builds: well it is actually even more obnoxious to power builds since you can’t blind, nor immob, nor put poison, chill or weakness on ele. Yeah, getting them to 90% HP is possible but keeping them under 90 is actually everything but easy due to perma protection, additional dmg reduction, miriad of heals and CC. I had backstab hitting for 50 dmg, yes 50.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: DrDivine.5378

DrDivine.5378

I’m not a balancing expert, idk if diamond skin needs a balance or the other classes just need a little more pressure (this is a bunker meta after all), I’ve heard a suggestion somewhere that said maybe diamond skin would only be in effect while in earth attunement.

Of course that might be a little UP with the 90% threshhold thing, but it might be a good start to tie it to one attunement but change how it works so it’s not completely useless.

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

Having 50% damage reduction and Condition immunity from traits is too much.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

I’m not a balancing expert, idk if diamond skin needs a balance or the other classes just need a little more pressure (this is a bunker meta after all), I’ve heard a suggestion somewhere that said maybe diamond skin would only be in effect while in earth attunement.

Of course that might be a little UP with the 90% threshhold thing, but it might be a good start to tie it to one attunement but change how it works so it’s not completely useless.

The best thing they can do with any Diamond Skin rework is get rid of that health threshold entirely. Do that and the trait becomes useful for the entire fight. Keep it, and any change you can possibly make is just a straight nerf.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: TainoFuerte.8136

TainoFuerte.8136

How many months ago were people (accurately) saying that DS was a stupid, lame trait?

Oh man, there’s no way Anet could have seen this coming, it is a mystery.

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Posted by: NeHoMaR.9812

NeHoMaR.9812

Not a nerf, but totally remove it of the game (and add a new trait)

My opinion in another thread:

Indeed, Diamond Skin is totally ridiculous. My necro builds are extremely compromised because just that single trait. Actually, I feel like all my skills are useless. I can’t start with an immobilize, or with fear, that are basically the starters of my combos; My wells are all useless to cast, ALL staff skills are 100% useless versus that one single trait. Also, it’s hard to make the first 10% damage to someone that have all boons of the game 24/7 and spam auras.

(edited by NeHoMaR.9812)

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Posted by: Shadowflare.2759

Shadowflare.2759

DS does not need a nerf. It needs a rework that makes it not have that situational health threshold. Nor should it be an auto proc, because that introduces additional factor of luck for its usage.

If I select a trait, I want it to be useful as often as possible, even if I have to play around it. Right now DS is just a stupid situational trait that is propped up by the bunker meta. A thief is actually extremely effective against a tempest right now.

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Posted by: mysticsicness.7598

mysticsicness.7598

If you nerfed DS then all Tempests would just have to switch to Chronobunker and use null field. The End.

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Posted by: Nath Forge Tempete.1645

Nath Forge Tempete.1645

For me DS prevent full condi team to work… and it’s not a bad thing to be honest …

Cause if there’s a DH or a thief in the enemy team, the ele is melting if necro is bombing in coordination.
Just an example, Ele got focus early on mid in 3vs3
Living time = 12 sec (with stomp time)

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Posted by: azyume.6321

azyume.6321

If you want to remove/rework/nerf DS, then it needs a more throughout fix going as deep as modifying the elementalist base. As I’ve said in another topic, DS only is effective because of the low HP pool and the amount of heal and protection to compensate it.

In truth DS is strong in a 1v1 fight but is completely worthless in a group fight. If tempest is alone bunkering down while the rest of the team is engaging somewhere else, they are doing it wrong putting the team at disadvantage. The necros/reapers should take advantage of that to turn the odds into the group fight. If you go to 1v1 a bunker DS tempest, you are also doing it wrong.

Once the threshold is broken in a group fight, if there is no other support close like chronobunker or another tempest, that first one will be chewed in a few seconds by the conditions even with the awful amount of heal and condition cleanse.

For me they could remove DS for good but to compensate, I’d like to have a higher HP pool so to not drop in 3 seconds after being corrupted by all conditions in the game as well as be able to choose a different traitline besides full defensive/support ones: earth/water/arcana and earth/water/tempest.

I’ve seen people use some crazy weird stuff to prove an argument, so please, if want balance, how about be more honest and concise about it? Mixing eles and tempests skills and traits, using auto attacks as example… come on, people really expect to break 10% of HP using axe auto attack when you can use Ghastly Claws which if all hit will break the threshold?

Guardian Commander
Thief / Mesmer / Elementalist / Warrior / Necromancer / Ranger / Engineer / Revenant
Crystal Desert – Eredon Terrace – Fort Aspenwood – Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

people really expect to break 10% of HP using axe auto attack when you can use Ghastly Claws which if all hit will break the threshold?

the elem will have to be afk to break the 10% treshold with necromancer axe (Ghastly Claws or not)…

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Posted by: azyume.6321

azyume.6321

Then the necro/reaper have a bad timing to be unable to hit Ghastly Claws and break the threshold. Heck even with dagger you can do that.

Guardian Commander
Thief / Mesmer / Elementalist / Warrior / Necromancer / Ranger / Engineer / Revenant
Crystal Desert – Eredon Terrace – Fort Aspenwood – Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

yep you can do this with a dagger because it hits harder, faster and give you a better LF regen.

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Then the necro/reaper have a bad timing to be unable to hit Ghastly Claws and break the threshold. Heck even with dagger you can do that.

If the necromancer needs to use a full channel of Ghastly Claws to break your DS, then you’ve probably already won, because an Ele with vigor gets dodges faster than the Necro gets back Ghastly Claws and you can safely ignore the Necro AA because chances are you heal faster than the damage it does.

And Dagger is better for damage than axe. If you can stick on the DS with a dagger you’ll probably blow through the DS but the problem is sticking on them.

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: azyume.6321

azyume.6321

The point was someone made that can’t break the threshold with axe auto attack, hence why I cite it. I just added that dagger can do it as well if someone is having trouble with axe.

However that’s the part where you have to show skills. If people go fighting a tempest thinking will auto attack or open with a condi bomb, while the tempest is a DS bunker, that’s wrong. You have to work out, make the tempest react to you instead of you to them. If they double dodge the Ghastly Claws, even with vigor, some will still hit and that’s the skill which gives life force, same for dagger auto attack. If close enough to not waste time, can use the little life force have to start to break the DS with the reaper shroud and inflict poison on the second chain of attack.

Is it easy? no. But also isn’t impossible. Find out the tempest rotations, maximize your rotations and use fear and daze at the right time to interrupt the heal.

In anyway, the game isn’t balanced in 1v1 fights but 5v5. Tempest gives support in group fights but have obvious weakness also good for 1v1; reaper shines in group fights but not so good in duels. If take that into account, one can claim DS is balanced since is useless in team fights and also doesn’t do squat against viper rev.

Whatever rework people ask for DS will just nerf elementalist. Tempest, however, can survive without DS if played carefully and condi necros/reaper will chew them down. As I said, would rather have a rework on the profession, the trait will touch the base of the ele, bringing even more nerfs which will make they go back to cantrips and no more support for the team. With tempest and warrior out of the play then we will see the reign of conditions ruling with viper rev and reaper perhaps even bringing back condi engi.

People will say: bring your own condi cleanse. Then we take into consideration the amount of CC that the elites professions can spam so we can decide if want to die from conditions or die from a cc chain since will have only 1 or 0 stun breakers.

Guardian Commander
Thief / Mesmer / Elementalist / Warrior / Necromancer / Ranger / Engineer / Revenant
Crystal Desert – Eredon Terrace – Fort Aspenwood – Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

So it is normal that a non skillplay passive rules the meta? /SeemsGood

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Posted by: Chaith.8256

Chaith.8256

Tempest hard counters Reapers, while you can focus a Reaper down unlike the the Revenant and Scrapper, Reapers can condi-burst. There is no build in the game that can handle their beastly condi-burst other than Tempest.

Except Reapers are already hardcountered by Scrappers, and softcountered by warriors. Reapers are terrible at kiting and have no blocks or extra evades so they are vulnerable to any class that has access to large amounts of power damage, and/or CC.

Lets say that hypothetically they change tempest to where it’s countered by reaper. what would happen would be this:
1. Tempests gets pushed out of meta by a upsurge of reapers
2. DH becomes stronger. (no more tempest projectile hate)
3. Reaper becomes meta.
4. Scrappers and Warriors become much more desirable due to the reaper meta.
5. Reaper gets pushed out of meta by the upsurge of scrappers and warriors.
6. Scrappers and DH are now meta.
7. With reaper pushed out of meta, Tempest returns to meta.
8. DH gets pushed out of meta by Tempest’s projectile hate.
9. With tempest becoming meta again, reapers are now desirable.
10. Tempests gets pushed out of meta by a upsurge of reapers.
11. repeat ad infinium

Reapers don’t get hard countered by Scrappers – your usage of the term, ‘hard counter’, should be revoked.

No amount of Reapers will make Warriors a solution, either. Warrior keeps Warrior from being played.

Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

So it is normal that a non skillplay passive rules the meta? /SeemsGood

It is normal, remember dhuumfire on release? Diamond skin was created solely because Dhuumfire terrormancers were absolutely destroying everybody.

Diamond skin does need a rework, but ArenaNet needs to do more than a hotfix for Elementalists. For pro-fixing advise look below.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/If-I-were-to-hotfix-nerf/first

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Posted by: azyume.6321

azyume.6321

So it is normal that a non skillplay passive rules the meta? /SeemsGood

If that’s the case why cherry picking the DS alone? Every profession have a passives. Then I’d advise to join the crowd who asks to remove all passive skills/traits from the game.

Guardian Commander
Thief / Mesmer / Elementalist / Warrior / Necromancer / Ranger / Engineer / Revenant
Crystal Desert – Eredon Terrace – Fort Aspenwood – Stormbluff Isle

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Posted by: Silverthorn.8576

Silverthorn.8576

i already think this game is driven by too much passive and proc thx.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

Reapers don’t get hard countered by Scrappers – your usage of the term, ‘hard counter’, should be revoked.

No amount of Reapers will make Warriors a solution, either. Warrior keeps Warrior from being played.

I never said warriors would become meta, I simply implied they would be stronger in a reaper dominant meta.

If you have something on how Scrappers aren’t countering reaper then please tell me since all of my experience on both classes has pointed towards scrapper being easily able to out sustain a reaper as reaper lacks on the burst to bring down scrapper.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: Nath Forge Tempete.1645

Nath Forge Tempete.1645

Reapers don’t get hard countered by Scrappers – your usage of the term, ‘hard counter’, should be revoked.

No amount of Reapers will make Warriors a solution, either. Warrior keeps Warrior from being played.

I never said warriors would become meta, I simply implied they would be stronger in a reaper dominant meta.

If you have something on how Scrappers aren’t countering reaper then please tell me since all of my experience on both classes has pointed towards scrapper being easily able to out sustain a reaper as reaper lacks on the burst to bring down scrapper.

remember when core necro REALLY hard counter core engi? I remember … and now Reaper vs scrapper is pretty fair tho

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Reapers don’t get hard countered by Scrappers – your usage of the term, ‘hard counter’, should be revoked.

No amount of Reapers will make Warriors a solution, either. Warrior keeps Warrior from being played.

I never said warriors would become meta, I simply implied they would be stronger in a reaper dominant meta.

If you have something on how Scrappers aren’t countering reaper then please tell me since all of my experience on both classes has pointed towards scrapper being easily able to out sustain a reaper as reaper lacks on the burst to bring down scrapper.

remember when core necro REALLY hard counter core engi? I remember … and now Reaper vs scrapper is pretty fair tho

Pretty fair for all the wrong reasons. Signet necro was and is a total nightmare to 1v1 before HoT, heck, core signet necro can still 1v1 better than scrapper. But not all of it was so strong, signet necro had some exploitable weaknesses with little ways to escape pressure and can have trouble focusing targets in a team fight.

All Reaper did for signet necro was give it better AoE, making it stronger and safer in team fights.