Guild Wars 2

The only problem with conditions right now is the rate of application of large stacks. Condis SHOULD apply long stacks (for the dps condis), but few stacks at a time so that you have to gradually build up over time. Right now, condis burst almost as well as power, while also having that tankiness. Just decrease the application rate a bit so that condis win attrition fights rather than burst fights as well.

Kentrey.3251:

You’re just wrong. I’m sorry. Conditions are and have always been a good mechanic. Bleeding (Higher Dmg – Higher stacks), Burning (High Dmg short duration), bleeding (low dmg reduced healing) and even Torment (Higher Dmg for moving)

Yes conditions could work like that.
No they aren’t helping GW2.

Condition removal is setup, in the classes/traits/utils themselves, to not be necessary for every spec. That works when conditions are either…
-general, minor->medium debuffs
or
-strong but rare and come with their own drawbacks

That isn’t the case in GW2.
Like at all.

That’d give the game the teamwork it needs.
Conditions would fit condition removal.
But most importantly, that would take away the mindlessness, conditions would become situational in nature, so need to be applied situationally…

Remove burning procs. Too much damage for RNG that is often unavoidable unless you block/dodge every auto attack – even for a short proc it does so much additional damage or forces you to clear it wasting a cleanse.

Reconsider the synergy that allows you to apply a lot of conditions very quickly. This is similar to the quickness/steal nerfs to tone down theif burst a little, but for condi damage.

Tone down CC. Especially with the change to immobilize, I fear someone will come up with some crazy immobilize spam build that will lock down the meta even further…

@ Ezrael: If you play sPVP like this (pressing 1), i think i found your Problem. try using 2-0

FYI: Warrior only #1 with axe needs 10 seconds to kill the golem

E again: coming online to call me a simpleton is no base for a discussion. I’m willing to discuss this, but not this way. (and now block me, very childish)

@garethh and the rest thinkin conditions are OP: They arent, the only difference is you have to react at the point when they are applied, not when you are dead.

Try using your healing skill at 50% health instead of 25%
Use your Condiremove earlier
Dodge the first attacks
Use unvulnerability at 75% instead of 20%
…

Agreed with OP.

Give necro’s 17k instant kills please to compensate.

" I fear someone will come up with some crazy immobilize spam build that will lock down the meta even further"

i loled..

hahaha this video is just lol , what u compare???

do it with thief and necro or dps ranger necro or dps ele necro or smt elase , this vod dont show enything , u cant hit moving target with scepter?? Necro cant do it with staff so?? And plz stop complain about necro becouse i see less and less of them and more and more warriors. Ppl say omg necro is so OP , focus-burst-dead thats all.

Necros aint even near as warriors are atm.

Tho condition meta is just boring., there’s no skill in it at all (mb except engis) and makes the game non-melee (engis kite, necros kite, mesmers kite, rangers kite, even warriors kite at some point) which is absurd.

As I read through all these complaints about conditions… I have to laugh… None of you have ever played OUTSIDE of sPvP have you? Conditions are a joke in every part of this game, there is so much condition removal, stack limits so more than 1 condition player is not needed, and if the main complaint is about Necros and now having torment (really? Thief/Warrior/Mesmer apply Torment easier). How about leaving your 5v5 and try some WvW where it is 10 vs 50+… I guarantee as a direct damage you will at the very least hurt someone, as a condition build, well, hope that none of the enemies are running a Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian, Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, Necromancer, Ranger (yes all 8 professions)… Warrior removes conditions with every shout, Guardian has several ways to cleanse from teammates, Mesmer can now remove conditions in an AoE as well with Mantra’s. Necro’s consume them or transfer them or turn them into boons, Ranger has his spring, Ele has always been pretty decent at removing conditions (especially bunker ele’s), Engineer can turn all conditions into boons as well, or remove on elixir use/throw, and Thieves seem to be able to just remove all conditions in stealth thanks to bugged traits.

For sPvP, try getting a team together, you will never have to worry about conditions again… Bring a Mantra Mesmer, a Guardian, a Shout/Warhorn Warrior, a Necro, an Elixir Engi, A Ranger with healing spring, even a Staff or Bunker D/D Ele… As for the Thief, they only good at removing from themselves.

Best of Luck to all of you, try different builds, it’s the only true way to learn counters. Not to mention, this Balance Patch, added a lot of Condition Removal support. You just have to know where to look for it.

Ezrael.6859:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juWdC8a75co

This was the worst example ever… You show a guardian with no traits selected using aoe fire sigil and a Berserker amulet traited 30 into power 30 into condition damage not even crit damage…

Then you show a necro with a bleed sigil im sure all traits set for condition damage using rabid amulet… If you want to prove a point, you need to make the variables all the same. No amulets, no traits spent, basic weapons (steady weapons)

Otaur.9268:

As I read through all these complaints about conditions… I have to laugh… None of you have ever played OUTSIDE of sPvP have you? Conditions are a joke in every part of this game, there is so much condition removal, stack limits so more than 1 condition player is not needed, and if the main complaint is about Necros and now having torment (really? Thief/Warrior/Mesmer apply Torment easier). How about leaving your 5v5 and try some WvW where it is 10 vs 50+… I guarantee as a direct damage you will at the very least hurt someone, as a condition build, well, hope that none of the enemies are running a Warrior, Mesmer, Guardian, Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, Necromancer, Ranger (yes all 8 professions)… Warrior removes conditions with every shout, Guardian has several ways to cleanse from teammates, Mesmer can now remove conditions in an AoE as well with Mantra’s. Necro’s consume them or transfer them or turn them into boons, Ranger has his spring, Ele has always been pretty decent at removing conditions (especially bunker ele’s), Engineer can turn all conditions into boons as well, or remove on elixir use/throw, and Thieves seem to be able to just remove all conditions in stealth thanks to bugged traits.

For sPvP, try getting a team together, you will never have to worry about conditions again… Bring a Mantra Mesmer, a Guardian, a Shout/Warhorn Warrior, a Necro, an Elixir Engi, A Ranger with healing spring, even a Staff or Bunker D/D Ele… As for the Thief, they only good at removing from themselves.

Best of Luck to all of you, try different builds, it’s the only true way to learn counters. Not to mention, this Balance Patch, added a lot of Condition Removal support. You just have to know where to look for it.

Pve & blob spam forums this way —>

You guys can’t understand that condi spam is an EASY MODE of fighting? You won’t be able to do same dmg w/o em if you would like to no matter what kind of build you make. Thats why they’re sick.

whyme.3281:

@garethh and the rest thinkin conditions are OP: They arent, the only difference is you have to react at the point when they are applied, not when you are dead.

@Whyme and those who see the word ‘condition’ and immediately think a person is QQ’ing about OP.

I’m not.
I know it’s a shock, but take a second, maybe read my post, or just this TLDR…

Conditions can be balanced as is.
Conditions aren’t super OP as is.
Conditions create BAD GAMEPLAY as is.

Balance is worthless if it’s built on crap.
(cheese, CC-locks, mindless condi spam, low teamwork, exc.)

Otaur.9268:

How about leaving your 5v5 and try some WvW

This is the SPvP forums.
There is a split between WvW balance and SPvP.

Bye.

Otaur.9268:

Ezrael.6859:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juWdC8a75co

This was the worst example ever… You show a guardian with no traits selected using aoe fire sigil and a Berserker amulet traited 30 into power 30 into condition damage not even crit damage…

Then you show a necro with a bleed sigil im sure all traits set for condition damage using rabid amulet… If you want to prove a point, you need to make the variables all the same. No amulets, no traits spent, basic weapons (steady weapons)

Both had 30 points spent in Power and Precision with no traits selected.

And actually that makes it a perfect example.

For a Power build you need Power, Precision and Crit Damage.

For a Condition build you need Condition Damage and Condition Duration.

For a Guardian the Crit Damage is with Toughness, so you can’t have all 3.

A Necro can spec into just two lines to get max stats for conditions. With 10 points free to spend.
As a Guardian if you want max crit damage then you need to lose Precision or Power.
You have to compromise, this isn’t necessary as a condition build profession.

If you build for DPS you take a Berserker Amulet, you have no toughness and low hp.

As a condi build Necro you can take a Rabid Amulet for damage and survivability as you have Condition damage, Precision (useful for the multitude of condi procs) and Toughness.
Or Settlers with 2 defensive stats and your main offensive stat which lets you put out significant damage alone. Condition damage, Healing and Toughness.

You can’t do this as a Power build, You can have Power with Vitality and Toughness as a Soldier, or high Healing with lower Power and Toughness as a Cleric.
If you want to crit and do damage you have no Toughness and low Vitality with Berserker or high Precision low Power and low hp with Rampager.

Condi classes get far more damage from building only for Condition Damage and ignoring Condition Duration than Power classes get by building for just for Power.
And Power builds need 3 stats to max DPS, condi builds only need 2.

Plus you get all of these advantages with mostly ranged weapons, that have far better accuracy than Power weapons.

Condi builds get comparable damage to Power builds while only focusing on one stat, therefore keeping more defense, they get more reliable damage through ranged auto-attacks which don’t have any tracking issues against moving targets. And they get to do all of this from 900-1200 range.
Most Power builds are melee, 130 range, having to stick to the heels of your target and adapt to all the different ways they can keep you away and load you up with conditions before you get there.
Yet they do comparable damage just by spamming an auto-attack from range.

Conditions are far easier to apply than melee damage and they are easier to build for.
Just 2 main stats as opposed to 3 and a much more viable damage and survivability build when focusing on only one offensive stat with Condition damage as opposed to a melee that focuses only on Power.

The video proves that guardians aren’t very good at being a ranged nuker. I don’t think it follow that Anet should nerf professions that are good at ranged dps to compensate.

Also, I’m testing a glass cannon build right now with almost no defense. However, it does get 3 condition removals every 20 seconds built in with the offensive skills. No matter how poorly I use them, they erase a ton of condi damage.

I wish a large amount condition removal would go away and conditions would scale from Power(and less than they do with condition damage, so overall nerf) and remove condition damage, and greatly reduce the number of conditions applied by things so conditions rightfully become flavor of damage, rather than its own type and over-used. That’d be my ideal use of conditions.

Ezrael.6859:

For a Condition build you need Condition Damage and Condition Duration.

1. Learn the mechanics you also need precision. Try your test with carrion amulet and see how much bleeds you apply with only 18% crit chance
2. ever thought that a guardian isn’t the dmg class number one?

• Guardian is the class with the lowest ranged damage?
• Take a ranger or thief for example they both only need 2 traitlines for power, preci and crit dmg, so berserker and direct dmg is op too…

1. Have a look at the traits, you forgot all those +10% dmg here and +20% dmg there traits, that don’t effect conditiondamage.

I mean its true, there is no stat combination like berserker, with condi dmg, preci and condi duration, so they have to use defensive stats, but this is no problem of conditions.

garethh.3518:

Conditions can be balanced as is.
Conditions aren’t super OP as is.
Conditions create BAD GAMEPLAY as is.

Balance is worthless if it’s built on crap.
(cheese, CC-locks, mindless condi spam, low teamwork, exc.)

Yes, they can be balanced, if they are balance, they aren’t OP (and they aren’t OP right now, they are weaker than direct damage in my oppinion [do less damage, can be prevented easier]).

And if they are balanced, they don’t create a bad gameplay, they offer a more complex one and need the players to adept to this mechanic.
I don’t understand, why you start with CC again, we are talking about condition damage -> means damage conditions -> bleed, burn, poison, torment, (fear) and confusion.

without condition damage, you can build the perfect bunker with high toughness, high healingpower and alot of blinds, block, invulnerability,…. with condition damage, you also need condi removes and vitality