You just have to ask yourself this one question:
How many of the top 250 did it only by solo q, and of those how many are top 25, 50, or 100?
It’s a tell tale sign when pro players HAVE to duo q to even maintain a high MMR.
If you think for a moment the pro players need duo queue to maintain their positions in the top 250, you are a hopeless case.
Why do they do it? Why wouldn’t they is the better question! Per a point we all seem to agree with that it’s nice to play with a friend or teammate, it’s one thing that keeps them around playing the game and keeping the scene alive. Sometimes they duo, sometimes they solo. What matters is that they have a choice.
A lot of you Solo-only folks also seem to be under the impression that Team Queue can make a return, and should make a return. That won’t happen if you continue to make these half- kitten d statements without realizing just how pitifully low the community playing ranked actually is. Even with Duo Queuing the amount of Platinum and Legend Players across EU and NA is measured in HUNDREDS. We don’t need MORE players leaving the scene because they are unable to play competitive with a friend. We need to work with what we have NOW, and go forward.
Making this known now, we can barely support a solo/duo queue, as matchmaking still has hiccups trying to make balanced matches. We sure as hell don’t have enough for Team Queue. If I were the devs, I would say let Team Queue rot for a year, work with what they have now, MAYBE introduce automated Team Tournaments for loot and LAN qualifier points, and PROMOTE our most popular SPvPers on twitch and youtube.
Right now, we are back at GW2 Launch, let’s start from scratch.
Here is the reality:
1, Very few people with high MMRs EVER solo queue.
Let’s go with this being true for now.
2, As a result there are fewer high MMR people at all times so matches are worse
How does this make sense? Explain how you went from the majority of high MMR being duo queue, to making fewer high MMR people? I assume you must mean that there were fewer high MMR Solo Queuers, this is probably what you meant. Even if this were the case, duo queuers would still be queuing at high MMR…
Because the high MMR people sit in the HOTM waiting for their friend to get online so they can duo queue. So duo queue leads to population issues.
3, These duo queues get put into games with them 2 (mmr 2100 each) and 8 solo players with 1800. It is impossible to make a fair match out of these 10 players
Or 4 sets of high MMR with a single low solo on both sides, doesn’t matter.
It does matter because duo queue factually reduces the flexibility the matchmaker has. If you have 10 people and they have to be arranged in 2 5 man groups then there are more possibilities than if 2 of those 10 people have to be on the same team. In the second case you will often never get a good match up due to the restrictions the duo queue puts on the matchmakerYou know what the real issue is? SPvP population is extremely low, we are seeing bad matchmaking all around regardless of the solo and duo queue scenario because the pool is so low. The matchmaking wouldn’t have so many issues if it could pull more solo queuers at high MMR at all times, but since there are so few players it has to pick from Plats or even Golds (NA wise).
Duo queue seriously damages the population issues at high MMR, that was my point.Which is why it’s smarter to give an artificial disadvantage like making the duo queuers earn less rating and lose more rating, face them against harder opponents without better gains, etc. Killing off Duo queue will make the matchmaking even WORSE thanks to the population issues.
Increasing the population across the board and developing SPvP player talents so that there is a naturally higher pool of good players at high MMR will most of the issues we see now. Converting some of the PvE players, of which there is an unimaginable amount by comparision to SPvP or WvW, helps. Creating a competitive environment for ESports-Twitch players in different games to try out GW2 can serve to improve our situation now.
Obviously increasing the population would help. But duo queue does the opposite at high MMR. I played there all season. My MMR is 1955. I am telling you how it is.
DuoQ is a necessity in lower ranks. Do I really have to work my way through bronze ALONE? Everyone knows that climbing leagues in bronze/silver will be a complete gamble. I like GW2 pvp but the randomness of it doesn’t make it very competitive. Besides, mostly matchmaking pits another duoQ against me when I duoQ myself. THere’s simply more low rated players then high ones.
I would also like to see only soloQ for one season to see how that goes.
You just have to ask yourself this one question:
How many of the top 250 did it only by solo q, and of those how many are top 25, 50, or 100?
It’s a tell tale sign when pro players HAVE to duo q to even maintain a high MMR.
you just have to ask yourself how much lower these. people would be without duoing and how much higher the solos would be with it, and maybe a few ranks might shuffle a bit but by and large the top 250 isn’t going to change a whole lot and it’s unfair to arbitrarly strip people of the effort they put into being a stronger team player in a team based game mode.
You totally missed the point. Idc if they remove duoq or not nor am I advocating for/against it.
I literally just said pro players had to duo or not have a chance at the higher MMR slots. The fact that basically all the top slots are filled with duos only is,telling
This is my big thing as a top tier PvP player in this game.
If you are going to force people into a duo-queue only system when the gamemode itself is designed for team based queue, then we as a community need to educate the less educated player’s on how-to play this game.
It is stupid that I am in plat 2, and get people on my team who have over 11,000 hours on Thief and have no clue what agility signet does and think that it only gives ‘Precision bonus’.
The fact that the community is so small for PvP that 80% of the newer PvP player’s are all here for skins, gold, achievements, whatever and they come in with /t or /m off is ridiculous. I actually applaud Anet for taking a step in the right direction to attempt to bring this community back together, but eventually we need to take in account that Conquest is a 5v5 gamemode and if you are going to go pure solo or pure duo, or even team queue there needs to be some means of easier communication or better training for our less educated friends on how-to learn PvP so games are so massively skewed.
It literally almost seems like me, gold is the people who try during their games despite sucking at the game and plat is people who play meta and try(yet still dont know the game)
Just my 2c
EDIT: Went into a completely different tangent there, but regardless! I personally think they need to bring back the old Team queue that allows for 5 man premades and then solo ranked queue for our ‘Solo Queue whiteknights’. Both were fun back in the day, and made the game more exciting expecially when there were two seperate leaderboards.
Additionally, if you think that 5man queue’s wont be ‘Popping fast enough’ check out NA Unranked during primetime. Constantly 3+ queue’s
(edited by dmndbcK.3425)
I have to agree that is it unfair for a full solo team to fight against one or two duo queues in the ennemy team. I’ve had it happen way too many times to me and it’s frustrating. One duo queue isn’t that bad, but when there are 2, your chances of winning are waaaay lower than 50-50
You just have to ask yourself this one question:
How many of the top 250 did it only by solo q, and of those how many are top 25, 50, or 100?
It’s a tell tale sign when pro players HAVE to duo q to even maintain a high MMR.
If you think for a moment the pro players need duo queue to maintain their positions in the top 250, you are a hopeless case.
Why do they do it? Why wouldn’t they is the better question! Per a point we all seem to agree with that it’s nice to play with a friend or teammate, it’s one thing that keeps them around playing the game and keeping the scene alive. Sometimes they duo, sometimes they solo. What matters is that they have a choice.
A lot of you Solo-only folks also seem to be under the impression that Team Queue can make a return, and should make a return. That won’t happen if you continue to make these half- kitten d statements without realizing just how pitifully low the community playing ranked actually is. Even with Duo Queuing the amount of Platinum and Legend Players across EU and NA is measured in HUNDREDS. We don’t need MORE players leaving the scene because they are unable to play competitive with a friend. We need to work with what we have NOW, and go forward.
Making this known now, we can barely support a solo/duo queue, as matchmaking still has hiccups trying to make balanced matches. We sure as hell don’t have enough for Team Queue. If I were the devs, I would say let Team Queue rot for a year, work with what they have now, MAYBE introduce automated Team Tournaments for loot and LAN qualifier points, and PROMOTE our most popular SPvPers on twitch and youtube.
Right now, we are back at GW2 Launch, let’s start from scratch.
Reread my post then realize I said in this current system a pro player who just Yolo’d wouldn’t be at the top MMR rating due to the REQUIREMENT of duoq needed
SoloQ only and a separate 5 Q mode.
This please.
I know friends that have already left that were unhappy about being able to bring even 3-4 in ranked.
If the game chooses to completely discourage playing PvP with a friend, I will probably give it up as well. I do like PvP but spending my evening with my friends is far more important and there are other games I can find this in.
Most pvp games allow you to queue up with friends. This Solo Queue mentality that is being pushed is anything but good for the growth and continuance of the game.
People don’t realize that they have purposely stacked teams against Duo teams, and that ussually the side that has a team of two on it is up against a higher MMR on the other side in order to compensate for the coordination.
People want to blame it on something, why they lose instead of looking inward at what they could of done differently. Every game I lose whether up against a team of two on the other side or two teams of two or not, I look at myself and consider what I could of done differently to improve the games chances.
I guarantee that removing Duo queue will lead to all the same complaining people, just finding something new to complain about, or just going after the typical complaints more voraciously.
Be honest with yourself, Duo queues are not your problem, there are some very new players who have no voice communication that team up together all the time. The game stacks agaisnt that mmr and it is actually harder to run in a team sometimes then solo.
And yes I know there is unranked but that place is far to volatile and wildly unreliable to consider it teh place I want to spend every evening.
ITT: Bad players crying that they don’t have a friend who can carry them in the Duo Q so they want the rest of the playerbase to suffer.
QQ more. First it was 5 man groups were too stronk, now it’s two man? What’s next? Some solo players are too good, ban them from the game!!! WAHH
In bronze, duo que is strong.
-There are different levels of bronze players and having mutliple people on the same page is a significant boost here. It’s like everyone is blindfolded except 2 people. Been there, done that. It was not fun.
————————-
In the middle it isn’t as strong.
-We all know around gold/plat barrier, most players know how to use their class. Most of the issues here are rotation based. But when you duo, you get an artificial bump in your rating. When in fact you are not that good. Most people can’t carry around this player level, and weaknesses in the team show up more consistently here.
——————————
At the high end it becomes stronger again.
-Being able to coordinate at this level is just a slight advantage. But at this level, people know how to play and where to go. The bonus comes in class composition, TS/discord, or hedging your builds.
Most people build generic, but knowing someone can cover your deficit gives you an opportunity to change your spec some.
I know duos at each level. They seem to have different levels of efficiency, which seems to make me believe this is a two tailed issue instead of a generic yes or no problem.
Here is the reality:
1, Very few people with high MMRs EVER solo queue.
Let’s go with this being true for now.
2, As a result there are fewer high MMR people at all times so matches are worse
How does this make sense? Explain how you went from the majority of high MMR being duo queue, to making fewer high MMR people? I assume you must mean that there were fewer high MMR Solo Queuers, this is probably what you meant. Even if this were the case, duo queuers would still be queuing at high MMR…
Because the high MMR people sit in the HOTM waiting for their friend to get online so they can duo queue. So duo queue leads to population issues.
3, These duo queues get put into games with them 2 (mmr 2100 each) and 8 solo players with 1800. It is impossible to make a fair match out of these 10 players
Or 4 sets of high MMR with a single low solo on both sides, doesn’t matter.
It does matter because duo queue factually reduces the flexibility the matchmaker has. If you have 10 people and they have to be arranged in 2 5 man groups then there are more possibilities than if 2 of those 10 people have to be on the same team. In the second case you will often never get a good match up due to the restrictions the duo queue puts on the matchmakerYou know what the real issue is? SPvP population is extremely low, we are seeing bad matchmaking all around regardless of the solo and duo queue scenario because the pool is so low. The matchmaking wouldn’t have so many issues if it could pull more solo queuers at high MMR at all times, but since there are so few players it has to pick from Plats or even Golds (NA wise).
Duo queue seriously damages the population issues at high MMR, that was my point.Which is why it’s smarter to give an artificial disadvantage like making the duo queuers earn less rating and lose more rating, face them against harder opponents without better gains, etc. Killing off Duo queue will make the matchmaking even WORSE thanks to the population issues.
Increasing the population across the board and developing SPvP player talents so that there is a naturally higher pool of good players at high MMR will most of the issues we see now. Converting some of the PvE players, of which there is an unimaginable amount by comparision to SPvP or WvW, helps. Creating a competitive environment for ESports-Twitch players in different games to try out GW2 can serve to improve our situation now.
Obviously increasing the population would help. But duo queue does the opposite at high MMR. I played there all season. My MMR is 1955. I am telling you how it is.
So how do you even consider making it Solo Q only to positively impact the experience? I guarantee those in the top 250 who duo queued, will still mostly be at the top 250 at solo only. You’ve probably already seen that coordination even in pure solo at Legend or high plat is solid, the players at that level aren’t brain-dead. All the removal has done is kittened-off the playerbase who can’t even play with a single friend in a SPvP environment. Hurting the already dangerously low SPvP community.
We should let Solo/Duo stay for a bit longer, as wiping out Duo Queue will make Team Queue much more difficult to return given that the only means to raising a team will be from a bunch of Soloers, rather than a mix of known-good Duo players and Solos. One season is not yet enough to remove the ability to play with anyone in Ranked absolutely, just create a disadvantage for the Duo Queue so they aren’t totally superior to Solo in every way.
Reread my post then realize I said in this current system a pro player who just Yolo’d wouldn’t be at the top MMR rating due to the REQUIREMENT of duoq needed
A 5 man does not consist of purely duo queues, there has to be soloers in there. Duo Queue is a preferred method with an advantage I accept, but any pro player can and has absolutely achieved a high MMR this season Soloing.
If you want to address Duo Queues, create a disadvantage to offset their ability to remove an unknown variable of a good/bad teammate. Reduced Rating gains, naturally harder opponents, etc.
I think duos are fine, even god tier player can’t carry bads in duo q.
The problem is matchmaking putting 2 legend duo vs gold/plat which evan said will be fixed next season so I’m optimistic.
SOlO Q OR 5 Man, Period.
Disagree with OP. Of course pure soloQ would be the only completely fair setup in a system that ranks individual players. Premades on the other hand only make sense in a ranking that ranks teams. That is why a seperate team/soloQ would also not be fair within the individual ranking system, even if the population allowed for seperate queues. Full-premade teams should compete in a pure team competition, such as automated tournaments with seperate rewards/titles.
That being said, I think the current soloQ/duoQ system is a good compromise for keeping PvP somewhat social and to provide a starting point for coordinated play. Also, a pure soloQ would favor certain classes that work well without much team coordination (DH, warrior) even more than now, especially at lower tiers.
As for the disadvatage in match making/rating gain/loss as a duo as opposed to solo: I thought the algorithm was already taking care of that?
Duo queue has very little to do with the quality of the matches being poor its the matchmaking function thats bad. The way they pick 10 for a match needs to be revamped and they need to drastically cut down on how far the matchmaking expands rating wise. I believe how it works now is they match a team of five versus a team of five. They need to select 10 and then move around the players that are not in a duo in a way that makes the teams as close as possible MMR wise. You going to duo as a legend? Fine but if the 10 selected doesn’t contain another legend duo be prepared to probably get stuck with the 3 worst players out of the remaining ten as teammates. Thats the answer not scrapping duos.
(edited by steelheart.7386)
Disagree with OP. Of course pure soloQ would be the only completely fair setup in a system that ranks individual players. Premades on the other hand only make sense in a ranking that ranks teams. That is why a seperate team/soloQ would also not be fair within the individual ranking system, even if the population allowed for seperate queues. Full-premade teams should compete in a pure team competition, such as automated tournaments with seperate rewards/titles.
That being said, I think the current soloQ/duoQ system is a good compromise for keeping PvP somewhat social and to provide a starting point for coordinated play. Also, a pure soloQ would favor certain classes that work well without much team coordination (DH, warrior) even more than now, especially at lower tiers.
As for the disadvatage in match making/rating gain/loss as a duo as opposed to solo: I thought the algorithm was already taking care of that?
no algorism dont take care of that, algorism places duos in the math mean of the two duo players giving them a more advantage for manipulating ranks (smurfed acounts)
Well there is no point in this discussion anymore since Anet decided to not even have a vote for the next season. They will keep duos as it is. It’s funny cause last vote people didn’t even vote specifically for duo Q, they just wanted teams out of the picture. Now they slap duos for half a year, without asking.
SoloQ only and a separate 5 Q mode.
This please.
Yup, I think this is the best option. We need some sort of team mode and duo queue ends up being worse than all or none.
You don’t want full team to join ranked into a team based game, crying a lot because you don’t want to join a pvp guild or make friends to play with but still don’t want to lose against a premade team that only play as this game is designed for, don’t do anything wrong but everyone cry anyway because they’re too lazy to make a team by they’re own.
Then ANet added the chance to ask to other players at the end of a match to join you and make a team. Great Idea, grant to make a team by your own with skilled players you find playing as a soloQ.
But there was still people unhappy because they’re too lazy also to make an improvized team, they want to force everyone to play lazy as they do.
Then ANet answered making your ranked for 1-2 players only, making impossible make a real premade, granting even better random fight between random players that play everyone as they want without any real coordinated strategy.
BUT now no one want it!!!
Now you want to force everyone to play as a SoloQ as you play, just because you don’t want to spend five minutes asking to your friends to join you or join a sPvP guild to play with. There’s a LOT of sPvP Guild in this game, just ask in map and you’ll find a lot of them ready to make you join and play with you.
Oh, wait, now is impossible to play with more than a friend, then make a pvp guild is totally useless, join one of them is pointless and every match is so casual that you have only to pray to find good players and not noobs, with the perfect class combination and against a noob team.
Time ago ANet gave us a SoloQ ranked area, where you was able to join only in solo.
there was so much crying players that Anet immediatly canceled everything.
If you play in soloQ with other 9 players that play in solo you will win only if you’re in the better casual team, without any chance to change it or chose to play with your friends, hoping to find good players and not noobs all the time.
Then, if you don’t play a class able to carry your team you will be unable to make your team win, still if your class is good in premade team (necro, for example).
Actually everything in ranked is a chaos, do you really want to increase the chaos?
I would rather get rid of soloq and do teamq. We have a LFG system that no one seems to use. If the community utilized that to make teams they could filter out who can join by their rank.
I’m proposing the LFG system from the start, from the first vote for team or solo queue.
No one want to spend 5 minutes to make a good team with chosen classes and a strategy, everyone want to go fast and play totally casual matches with casual players, with casual classes, with no strategy and win anyway, crying if they lose because “the match making is broken”.
Force players to make a Team (a premade, if you want) to join a ranking on a team based game is the only way to make a little of balance in this game. Also will make queue shorter. instead of find 10 players at the same level the game need to find only 2 team of the same level (the higher player make the level of the team), making the game reduce the time he need start the match by 5 times.
I would rather get rid of soloq and do teamq. We have a LFG system that no one seems to use. If the community utilized that to make teams they could filter out who can join by their rank.
it would be interesting to see how this would play out. might work! forcing people into teams could make for better matchups, strategy, and overall experience. going casual hasn’t worked out so far, at least not as good as it could be, nawmeen.
just make one ranked for soloq and a separate ranked for teamq = yayyy, everyone happy
They must get rid of duoQ..the end really! Most times you get unlucky and face 2x duoQ..it’s BS
just make one ranked for soloq and a separate ranked for teamq = yayyy, everyone happy
YES. THANK YOU.
It’s not rocket science, people.
+1 for soloQ only and teamQ option
DuoQ is fine.. christ… it makes a difference, but not the end of the world.
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