Guild Wars 2

Wolfric.9380:

So ele is left with a good support build wich ele players don´t like …..
I tried clerics and it feels bad…. I prefer a hybrid build that do active support and preassure. Just taking the punch evadign and healing is to one dimensional. I use my hybrid in solo que and it works well. I am weak to 3+ focus fire. If i notice a coordianted team oposing me i can´t play lazy :-).

First of all, I like playing pure support, secondly, more dps-oriented builds might “feel” useful in some situations and they actually can be slightly better than clerics in some specific scenarios (best example are 2v2 scenarios where you often need a bit more dmg), but in 1v1’s, it just looses to way too many builds and in teamfights where you actually have enough dmg, clerics ele is IMHO better as well.

Best thing you can do to make more hybrid and dps-oriented builds better is IMHO:
- Bring the very strong builds in line by toning them down a bit (reaper, scrapper, rev)
- Better base-stats for Ele (could be making clerics better as well, so there would maybe need to be some changes there)
- Better Healing Power Runes.
- Some ways to boost healing power on ele, likely through traits, based on more dps-oriented stats like condi-dmg or power.
- Slightly better healing on low healing power levels.

It’s your opinion that hybrid builds lose 1vs1, whether is true or not…it requires another thread. Although i can guarantee you that merc/paladin builds can hold/win still when built properly

First point: I believe that it’d be good to remove cleric amulet also, the healing and toughness combination brings for a very unhealthy gameplay to PvP.

Second point, the excessive healing gives viewers a false impression about balance, in the end ele get balanced with the idea of cleric healing in mind, something that must be changed asap.

Third point ; I have no problems with support build or people who wish to run them; my problem is how this support is achieved, given the lack of strong active defenses on the ele, to promote a cleric playstyle just spells even more disaster for the profession. If the devs would remove entirely any form of passive healing from the game then it’d be great, but for now…we need to delete cleric amulet

Again about my second point , everything on ele get nerfed around the idea of healbot.
Everything get nerfed because devs can always say :" oh it’s fine to butcher eles, after all they always can slap a cleric amulet and troll people, just annoying them really, he won’t pose any threat anyway"

Worst that will happen is that couple of necro players who own Metabattle.com will put this trolling cleric amulet build as meta for ele, consequently we’ll see many trolling cleric eles in ranked, they won’t do nothing but waste your time.

Anyway I can imagine that the build will fail in ESL anyway, the only reason tempest was taken last season it’s because of chronobunker who provided block/cc to healing shout eles…with all hope this build will die at launch

Really for the last time…elementalist wasn’t advertised as the new monk class for GW

Supreme.3164:

It’s your opinion that hybrid builds lose 1vs1, whether is true or not…it requires another thread. Although i can guarantee you that merc/paladin builds can hold/win still when built properly

Well, I’ve played D/D-Ele almost all of the last league season and made it to LX2 in almost only solo-Q’s. I actively searched 1v1’s and I’ve had a very good win-rate in 1v1’s (I didn’t engage druids cuz I knew I’d loose and I knew I’d only get a draw against scrappers, so I only engaged when I was holding the point for our team).

With the new Patch, I’ve tested several more offensive ele builds against strong Legendary players in hundreds of 1v1’s and talked to a few ESL-players about the state of Ele in 1v1’s and how they are doing: Most of them said they can beat Reaper (in my experience, it’s possible, but it’s a very unforgiving MU for the Ele, 1 mistake and you’re out), but they are having problems against scrapper, druid, power-rev and some builds even struggle with thiefs. The sustain was almost always what allowed ele to beat more offensive builds and at least made him survive against more balanced and sustain-oriented builds and you feel that very strongly in 1v1’s.

So yes, it’s my opinion based on extensive testing/theorycrafting and that of some other players, but I cannot give you scientific proof for it. -.-°

I think elementalist was not built to be a healer or bunker. The concept behind this profession was to deal huge damage. Somehow things changed.

The following is taken from official website: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

I’m guessing you haven’t played a condi/support and this coming from a complete novice at this class, yet I’m able to hold my own.

PowerBottom.5796:

Supreme.3164:

It’s your opinion that hybrid builds lose 1vs1, whether is true or not…it requires another thread. Although i can guarantee you that merc/paladin builds can hold/win still when built properly

Well, I’ve played D/D-Ele almost all of the last league season and made it to LX2 in almost only solo-Q’s. I actively searched 1v1’s and I’ve had a very good win-rate in 1v1’s (I didn’t engage druids cuz I knew I’d loose and I knew I’d only get a draw against scrappers, so I only engaged when I was holding the point for our team).

With the new Patch, I’ve tested several more offensive ele builds against strong Legendary players in hundreds of 1v1’s and talked to a few ESL-players about the state of Ele in 1v1’s and how they are doing: Most of them said they can beat Reaper (in my experience, it’s possible, but it’s a very unforgiving MU for the Ele, 1 mistake and you’re out), but they are having problems against scrapper, druid, power-rev and some builds even struggle with thiefs. The sustain was almost always what allowed ele to beat more offensive builds and at least made him survive against more balanced and sustain-oriented builds and you feel that very strongly in 1v1’s.

So yes, it’s my opinion based on extensive testing/theorycrafting and that of some other players, but I cannot give you scientific proof for it. -.-°

Yes anything you say, still….what’s the whole point of your argument?
The point of the thread was to denounce the terrible state of the elementalist at the moment, nothing to do with slapping a cleric amulet in your build and say: “your profession is fine stop QQ” , a cleric build won’t make ele appear as a fine example of balance….so the whole argument makes no sense whatsoever.

Anybody can slap a cleric amulet and become more or less very hard to kill 1vs1, troll v2 scrubs and throw around some heals calling it support.

You keep talking about these esl players ( like they are hundreds of them to start with) and where are they? where are these videos?.

You have nothing to support your argument and fact remains that no ele wish to play a monk, the whole thread was made to discuss about current ele problems and you keep talking about this cleric build like ele was made to be the GW2 monk ( at which he will still fail anyway)

Alin.2468
I think elementalist was not built to be a healer or bunker. The concept behind this profession was to deal huge damage. Somehow things changed.
The following is taken from official website: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/
“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.”

Read the quote above

So? Where does it say that ele is the GW2 monk?
Ele was never advertised as healbot…

Supreme.3164:

It’s your opinion that hybrid builds lose 1vs1, whether is true or not…it requires another thread. Although i can guarantee you that merc/paladin builds can hold/win still when built properly

First point: I believe that it’d be good to remove cleric amulet also, the healing and toughness combination brings for a very unhealthy gameplay to PvP.

Second point, the excessive healing gives viewers a false impression about balance, in the end ele get balanced with the idea of cleric healing in mind, something that must be changed asap.

Third point ; I have no problems with support build or people who wish to run them; my problem is how this support is achieved, given the lack of strong active defenses on the ele, to promote a cleric playstyle just spells even more disaster for the profession. If the devs would remove entirely any form of passive healing from the game then it’d be great, but for now…we need to delete cleric amulet

Again about my second point , everything on ele get nerfed around the idea of healbot.
Everything get nerfed because devs can always say :" oh it’s fine to butcher eles, after all they always can slap a cleric amulet and troll people, just annoying them really, he won’t pose any threat anyway"

Worst that will happen is that couple of necro players who own Metabattle.com will put this trolling cleric amulet build as meta for ele, consequently we’ll see many trolling cleric eles in ranked, they won’t do nothing but waste your time.

Anyway I can imagine that the build will fail in ESL anyway, the only reason tempest was taken last season it’s because of chronobunker who provided block/cc to healing shout eles…with all hope this build will die at launch

Really for the last time…elementalist wasn’t advertised as the new monk class for GW

Well.. play like you want.

But let other players play like they want.

Cleric Aurashare is the next support meta build. The ESL and AG rules about class stacking is creating that, not the fact that the cleric amulet exist.

I did bring thousands of game in the top 200 leaderboard with cleric builds. Each comp need 1 support to make your 3v3 fights better. If you can’t figure it out yourself, at least let others do.

There is no tank, no healer… there is burst, sustain and support. Cleric amulet is pure support. If you don’t like it, play menders or sage for sustain support.

Sorry but with the class stacking rules for competitive play, it would be really hard to take an ele over a scrapper or reaper for your sustains spot. Nor a thief or a DH for the dps spot. Ele is the favorite support build for 3 years. Now, it’s going to be cleric ele.

They need to change ELE to make it more viable for sustain or dps. But for support it’s great.

BTW, the next PRO League will bring Cleric Aurashare on the table and it will get metabattle META status because of that, not because the admins are necros or this or that.

Ele will never be properly balanced so long as it’s built around the principle of being “decent” at everything.

Either you excel or you suck in PvP. It’s why longbow ranger used to be bad before they buffed it massively (designed/discussed in a video with the ranger designer as kind of a “sustained” ranged damage option with some utility). It’s why hambow and cele ele and bunker mes and scrapper dominate(d); they have the raw numbers to back up being “too good” at something, and that something is pretty much entirely sustain.

Ele’s dependence on boons and swapping attunements for meaningful benefits are keeping its build path options very limited and very imbalanced. Fire/Air are pretty terrible lines because what they bring to the table will never be as good as water/earth/arcane/tempest, and the majority of the damage gained and synergy in dealing damage comes from weapon skills and stacking boons, rather than stacking trait effects to allow deeper specialization with some “extra” kind of back-up utility found in other attunements.

Other classes (mostly) need to specialize heavily in traits and select their weapons very carefully, making sacrifices somewhere along the lines to get the synergy they need in performing what the build is intended to do, making them have definitive and innate weaknesses per build. The ele’s coverage of effects inhibits this kind of build creation and subsequently makes the class overly-difficult to balance.

The removal of the celestial amulet was a big step forward to reducing the elementalist out of the “master of all” issue it had, but a lack of synergy within their offensive options and boon-dependence within certain trait lines keeps them from being able to deviate from the sustain-oriented path.

DeceiverX.8361:

Ele will never be properly balanced so long as it’s built around the principle of being “decent” at everything.

Either you excel or you suck in PvP. It’s why longbow ranger used to be bad before they buffed it massively (designed/discussed in a video with the ranger designer as kind of a “sustained” ranged damage option with some utility). It’s why hambow and cele ele and bunker mes and scrapper dominate(d); they have the raw numbers to back up being “too good” at something, and that something is pretty much entirely sustain.

Ele’s dependence on boons and swapping attunements for meaningful benefits are keeping its build path options very limited and very imbalanced. Fire/Air are pretty terrible lines because what they bring to the table will never be as good as water/earth/arcane/tempest, and the majority of the damage gained and synergy in dealing damage comes from weapon skills and stacking boons, rather than stacking trait effects to allow deeper specialization with some “extra” kind of back-up utility found in other attunements.

Other classes (mostly) need to specialize heavily in traits and select their weapons very carefully, making sacrifices somewhere along the lines to get the synergy they need in performing what the build is intended to do, making them have definitive and innate weaknesses per build. The ele’s coverage of effects inhibits this kind of build creation and subsequently makes the class overly-difficult to balance.

The removal of the celestial amulet was a big step forward to reducing the elementalist out of the “master of all” issue it had, but a lack of synergy within their offensive options and boon-dependence within certain trait lines keeps them from being able to deviate from the sustain-oriented path.

I agree, the idea was to put ele in a more offensive role, but the fact that the meta ele (tempest) is still going back to support aurashare kinda shows how much the profession relies on certain stats to be good due to low vitality. I was kinda expecting some sort of variant of fresh air this patch but it’s still not getting used that much.

Still, I’d rather have ele have one good build than nothing at all.

I probably will get flamed but i think eles are fine actually and are at least not on autopilot anymore like they were since celestial became a thing. Some outperforming builds need to be toned down (see scrapper, reaper and co.) and then game would be actually somehow enjoyable, imo.

While they’re definitely more balanced, the over-dependency on sustain and over-synergy with the sustaining trait lines and defensive gear pushes the class by design into a sustain role with no real capacity to function in any other way except PvE set-and-forget AOE fields and bombing in zergs in WvW where the focus-fire isn’t as intensive as it is in small-scale.

Like I said, something changed. Elementalist is no longer a concept like advertised on main website.

Main website information about Elementalist (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/) should be changed:

“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack sustain and the ability to keep themselves alive while providing some healing support.”

Alin.2468:

Like I said, something changed. Elementalist is no longer a concept like advertised on main website.

Main website information about Elementalist (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/) should be changed:

“Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack sustain and the ability to keep themselves alive while providing some healing support.”

Well, that’s true in sPvP, but in PvE and arguably WvW, they’re both versatile and can inflict massive damage in a single* attack.

*technically it’s multiple hits, but it’s just a single button press; Meteor Shower can hit like a truck and Ele has some of the highest DPS of the game and high support potential.

No, I’m not really arguing that Ele doesn’t have big issues. I’m just trying to point out that sPvP isn’t the only mode. Yea, it’s a shame that it has problems in that mode now, but the class isn’t nearly as crippled in the other modes.

welcome to the world rangers and thieves, and necros all had their time in.

Travis.3487:

welcome to the world rangers and thieves, and necros all had their time in.

you mean the world where ele was already in when necros and rangers were still dancing around with dhuumfire and spirit builds? and thief was only useless for 1 season, not over 1 year like ele.

Travis.3487:

welcome to the world rangers and thieves, and necros all had their time in.

the forgotten warrior is in it’s own world of trash and garbage

Travis.3487:

welcome to the world rangers and thieves, and necros all had their time in.

This has to be one of the most idiotic posts you can write. Yeah all classes had their time, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t need fixing. This game needs build diversity to succeed and right now it is NOT delivering.