Guild Wars 2

which game do you think has better pvp? In both videos they are in equalized pvp where gear does not matter besides skill plates and tech rings which give a few skills damage increases, also unlike guild wars 2 structured pvp you still have to level your character to be on equal footing with other players

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4hGdOz1CxWU

Looks pretty whack to be honest. 1 person putting out all that chain cc (the attack knocking the person up and then repeating that over and over) looks like poor design. Other aspects look pretty clunky too.

Lol this is funny considering I just got back into playing DN.

I don’t really know about it’s pvp though, considering 1v1 only a few classes are actually good at it, I don’t really know how balanced it really is.

And yeah there is stunlocking with combo’s but there’s also a decent amount of counters for most classes. There’s also a ton of nuances you’d have to learn before being good at it, learning which skills give super armor (stability sorta), which ones break super armor, and which ones give iFrames. Which is why I haven’t gotten into it lol.

The combat atleast is extremely fun there, makes me wish GW2 felt as visceral.

heres the dragon nest pvp 1v1 tiers posted by a player on dragon nest forums for people who want to know

Pvp 1v1 tiers
Higher the rating, the lower the tier a class is (ex. 1 = top tier)

My personal opinion (based on matches I’ve fought), although I do realize some classes are stronger against come classes than they are against others:

For “legit” 1v1 (with BL, equalized):

1 – Tempest

Lots of evades, high mobility, high dmg, medium/high SA skills. Hurricane dance is almost impossible to miss.

2 – Windwalker

Sort of like tempest minus the hurricane dance. Rising storm hurts a lot too, but is harder to land than hurricane dance.

3 – War Mage

TS → laser cutter = roughly same dmg as justice crash + smite, except it can be used much earlier in a match and/or activated off time dodge.

4 – Guardian

justice crash → smite = 90% of any female class HP gone, ~60-80% of male class HP gone. How hard is it to land justice crash? Not very, but it can be cancelled pretty easily.

5 – Ice Witch

Freezing sword EX takes off ~40% HP from female classes and can only be dodged if the ice witch doesn’t aim it correctly or stands too far back.

6 – Warden

Frag arrow EX and detonating arrow deal pretty high damage, but the mainly the only skill making SS’s strong atm is the short CD high dmg skill Guided Missiles.

7 – Sniper

Sort of like Warden, except 50 skills are kind of useless in PvP.

8 – Destroyer

Maelstrom howl has extremely high SA break and deals slightly less damage than justice crash (but still a significant amount).

9 – Lunar Knight

MBD deals ~20-30% of male class HP, but it’s more annoying than anything else as it has a short CD, high SA break, and most MLs just stall until they can use it again.

10 – Barbarian

50 skills for barb aren’t very OP at all, putting them at a disadvantage compared to other classes. However, as a merc class they still have some nice SA and SA break skills.

11 – Pyromancer

Pyromancers are only strong if they are able to lock their opponents down. Fireball EX is actually weaker than freezing sword EX in pvp (it receives a huge dmg nerf compared to its PvE counterpart) and much harder to land outside of a combo due to long charge time and not much SA. Magma ball has a long CD (47 secs I believe) and is extremely inefficient outside of a combo.

12 – Gladiator

Very low damage skills, requires extensive combos to really deal any damage.

13 – Crusader

Really sucks to be a crusader, judgmental hammer deals really crappy damage, is easily dodged, and only serves to push the opponent back. Relic EX is easier to land, but the skill itself was never of any significant importance or OPness in paladin pvp. Easily pushed around by most classes )=

14 – Inquisitor

Priests are still pushed around easily in 1v1, but inquisitors at least have a bit more damage than saints (although this is probably mainly due to differing skill builds).

15 – Saint

Bottom of the food chain, saints are juggled around easily by any class and deal crappy damage. Or sit tight behind a wall of relics, the relic camp has become slightly more… powerful? effective? don’t know the right word… since the addition of lightning relic EX.

Tinks won’t 1v1 unless they can spam summons/alfredo so I don’t have any data for them

I don’t know much about DN PvP, but I played for while, and I thought the combat in the game was amazing. I imagine that the CC-lock that Seether mentions actually takes quite a bit of skill. My impression from playing it as that you have to have a fairly deep knowledge of the game to effectively juggle a competent player for any length of time. Also, the game was entirely aim-based.

I’ve played other games that were amazing too, but dead by the time I tried them. Savage 2 anybody? That game was incredible, also aim-based with RPG elements, and with a massive skill gap. A single skilled player could easily take over the game.

I prefer both of those combat systems to GW2, but GW2 is fun for what it is. It’s combat is definitely better than any other standard MMO.

I don’t like the feel of DN combat after playing GW2. DN is more like tekken to me and how it plays. GW2 feels more like ssbm.

Dude you are desecrating the GW2 forum with this korean or chinese or wth crap.

Played it while waiting for GW2 to come out, gotta say it was funny at the beginning but it ended being just another boring, endless grind and crappy korean mmorpg.

Dragon Nest PvP is robust. It feels very “Asian” in the sense that lightning fast reflexes and eye-hand coordination are valued heavily in this game. In order to be competitive, mechanical skill with very high APM is essential. Definitely not a casual-friendly PvP game, like GW2 is.

Ice Witch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSmOW4TVW_M

Tempest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-VEmGvMPDk

Group PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

zone.1073:

Dragon Nest PvP is robust. It feels very “Asian” in the sense that lightning fast reflexes and eye-hand coordination are valued heavily in this game. In order to be competitive, mechanical skill with very high APM is essential. Definitely not a casual-friendly PvP game, like GW2 is.

Ice Witch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSmOW4TVW_M

Tempest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-VEmGvMPDk

Group PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

Yeah the combat is definately one of the best of any game I’ve played, those first 2 links are a good example. Hell I’m only just leveling in pve in the game and just having a blast, the boss fights and mobs to aoe is just satisfying as hell lol.

The group pvp is definately a bit crazy though, since alot of higher lvl skills are so flashy an 8v8 is a bit of a clusterpuppy, not too different from here though lol.

Notice how there is no targeting in Dragon Nest. That’s right. Every skill you see in the videos is manually aimed. It’s very much like a first person shooter.

Two different types of action PvP with some similarities. I’ve played DN’s PvP & it’s more FPS-like rather than RTS-like, although one can argue that the combat tactics have some resembelnce (ie. combos plays a huge factor in both PvPs).

Differences:
- DN combat mechanics has crosshair while GW2 is auto-target.
- GW2’s weapon skills have depth in terms of synergy while DN have class skills which stick with you forever.
- DN is 100% combo lock based, so you can keep enemys locked in combos for awhile.
- To get out of a combo in GW2, it requires some sort of debuff skills such as stun-break, while in to get out of a combo process a player uses different evasion skills while in mid-air or on the ground.

Similarities:
The main similarity to take note of is that fact that they both heavily rely on comboing in PvP. Of course, one here would say that it seems like GW2 have more depth in its skill system compare to DN -which is true. Personally, I think DN’s combos are much harder to set up as oppose to GW2’s, because there is a higher risk and reward for timing your skills slightly in the wrong place, and the executation is everything compare to the build (since there is none). Also, I’m not as good of a aimer as I am of an RTS player.

But anyways It’s like comparing if being a professional sniper is harder or being a professional RTS player is harder. Oranges and Apples IMO.

zone.1073:

Dragon Nest PvP is robust. It feels very “Asian” in the sense that lightning fast reflexes and eye-hand coordination are valued heavily in this game. In order to be competitive, mechanical skill with very high APM is essential. Definitely not a casual-friendly PvP game, like GW2 is.

Ice Witch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSmOW4TVW_M

Tempest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-VEmGvMPDk

Group PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SQFPIL6sro

Wow. The second link really showcases your point. The combat system looks amazing from a spectator’s point of view.

Some good gw2 pvp to compare with: http://youtu.be/yzBn32Fqm9w

i was one of the best pvp Destroyer in Taiwan DN, and now i am trying to play competitively in GW2 pvp with current ranking 36. To me, which separate DN and GW2 most is their fighting style and the emphasis placed on fighting.

DN require skills more on individual level and are action-oriented; Even though class counter still exist in DN, player plays a more important role here than their class. if you are very skilled, you can somewhat break through your class limit and have some good fight with your counter class. it depends more on player’s control.

GW2 in my opinion placed it’s focus more on team and tactic play; how player combine their skill/build with each other on the team, what to do at the right moment or how to fight as a team. there are lots of hard counter of every build or classes in this game which makes it became less individual skills required than DN, it is not about how much you skilled, it is more about how you built your class and try to make it less hard countered as much as possible. After that, team cooperate follows and player skills come last.

Not to say which is a better pvp style, but that is what all i feel after 3 months of pvp in GW2 and 2 years of pvp in DN. i love pvp of both game, but i would like to see more action feature added to GW2 as Anet claim that they want player focus more on action than stat in GW2.

xiNe.6958:

i was one of the best pvp Destroyer in Taiwan DN, and now i am trying to play competitively in GW2 pvp with current ranking 36. To me, which separate DN and GW2 most is their fighting style and the emphasis placed on fighting.

DN require skills more on individual level and are action-oriented; Even though class counter still exist in DN, player plays a more important role here than their class. if you are very skilled, you can somewhat break through your class limit and have some good fight with your counter class. it depends more on player’s control.

GW2 in my opinion placed it’s focus more on team and tactic play; how player combine their skill/build with each other on the team, what to do at the right moment or how to fight as a team. there are lots of hard counter of every build or classes in this game which makes it became less individual skills required than DN, it is not about how much you skilled, it is more about how you built your class and try to make it less hard countered as much as possible. After that, team cooperate follows and player skills come last.

Not to say which is a better pvp style, but that is what all i feel after 3 months of pvp in GW2 and 2 years of pvp in DN. i love pvp of both game, but i would like to see more action feature added to GW2 as Anet claim that they want player focus more on action than stat in GW2.

very nice post sir. And this is a pretty good thread

I’ve always wanted to try Dragon’s Nest but for some reason I never got into it. I think it was due in part to the Asian version of the game being more updated than it’s US counterpart, and I really didn’t want to wait to get the same features months later.

Anyway, I used to watch tons of DN videos because they were so interesting and exciting to watch. DN is much more technical than GW2 and it does require a higher learning curve.

Both games has their pros and cons but I can only hope that GW2 brings that same excitement that DN does from a spectator’s vantage point. Right now I watch GW2 pvp and it’s meh right now, but when watching DN it’s just so compelling

Expansive.3716:

xiNe.6958:

i was one of the best pvp Destroyer in Taiwan DN, and now i am trying to play competitively in GW2 pvp with current ranking 36. To me, which separate DN and GW2 most is their fighting style and the emphasis placed on fighting.

DN require skills more on individual level and are action-oriented; Even though class counter still exist in DN, player plays a more important role here than their class. if you are very skilled, you can somewhat break through your class limit and have some good fight with your counter class. it depends more on player’s control.

GW2 in my opinion placed it’s focus more on team and tactic play; how player combine their skill/build with each other on the team, what to do at the right moment or how to fight as a team. there are lots of hard counter of every build or classes in this game which makes it became less individual skills required than DN, it is not about how much you skilled, it is more about how you built your class and try to make it less hard countered as much as possible. After that, team cooperate follows and player skills come last.

Not to say which is a better pvp style, but that is what all i feel after 3 months of pvp in GW2 and 2 years of pvp in DN. i love pvp of both game, but i would like to see more action feature added to GW2 as Anet claim that they want player focus more on action than stat in GW2.

very nice post sir. And this is a pretty good thread

I’ve always wanted to try Dragon’s Nest but for some reason I never got into it. I think it was due in part to the Asian version of the game being more updated than it’s US counterpart, and I really didn’t want to wait to get the same features months later.

Anyway, I used to watch tons of DN videos because they were so interesting and exciting to watch. DN is much more technical than GW2 and it does require a higher learning curve.

Both games has their pros and cons but I can only hope that GW2 brings that same excitement that DN does from a spectator’s vantage point. Right now I watch GW2 pvp and it’s meh right now, but when watching DN it’s just so compelling

i think the reason that pvp Gameplay of DN compelling more than GW2 was simply because the weigh of “action element” of the game. It is like comparing Street-fighter and League of Legends in terms of attractiveness from the spectator’s point of view; no way to compare. Definitively more “action element” in a game will make it much more easy understandable to public, but it doesn’t matter how competitive the game are, imo.

Undoubtedly GW2 outweigh DN in many ways in PvP in terms of getting ready for E-sport; structured play, more tactic used, required more teamwork, more organized tournament system. But the only thing DN better than GW2 in my opinion is the combat system. It seems weird to me that Anet adopted some action element into GW2 but they still built it in the traditional MMORPG way. For example, tones of AOE, tones of cast-on-ground skills, if A then B skills (cc>breakstun, condition>removal) and spammable 1-1-1-1 as the main source of damage. Just curious if they want the game become more action-oriented why they still added these undodgeable feature which makes the fight more like “stay away and use a much skill as possible on the enemy before they hit me and use those if A then B skills to re-position if they approach me” rather than “trying to dodge enemy’s skill and hit them”.

Right now, GW2 pvp give me a feel that dodge is not the main sources to mitigate damage, it is more about positioning and breaksun/stability. Dodge is useful but not that essential in a fight, which makes the game less action-oriented. Hope Anet notice this and make it better in the future.

Don’t get me wrong, i love GW2 a lot and just curious about some game mechanism and try to give out my opinion. Btw, my English wasn’t good enough, please don’t be too picky.

Haha, yeah, DN was EXTREMELY fun. It’s pretty much exactly like Lunia was except 3D.
But that’s just it. Fun. There was/is no push to make it eSport.
I’m not really playing GW2 for the ‘fun factor’, I’m doing it to compete.
Which at this point is highly laughable as the promise of “first MMO eSport” fades away.
May as well go crawling back to League…

Atlas.6901:

I imagine that the CC-lock that Seether mentions actually takes quite a bit of skill. My impression from playing it as that you have to have a fairly deep knowledge of the game to effectively juggle a competent player for any length of time. Also, the game was entirely aim-based.

Every class has a ‘combo breaker’ ability on a 25 second cooldown I believe.
@OP, I think this vid much better represents DN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZveyXikVUCo
Also, from what I remember the Korean WCG last year was filled with Gladiators and Priests (totem spam omg…)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEjBm3kGCvY
Myself soloing the highest level/mode Boss level in the NA Beta a little over a year ago.
(I was also among the first to solo Minotaur’s Nest on NA when it was released)

It’s too bad that all good fantasy action RPGs only come from Asia and have these vomit-inducing tones to it, like squeaky voices, high heels on females, flaming gay looking males, pedo-baits, enormous grind, pay to win, heavy instancing… I guess it makes them bad, not good, but combat in them is so much fun and the stories actually feel more compelling. You’re no chosen super hero of doom, but just a well-trained merc, adventurer or soldier, which makes more sense than 10 thousand super heroes running around.

I guess we’re stuck with watered down half-RTS games for a while.

Edelweiss.9815:

It’s too bad that all good fantasy action RPGs only come from Asia and have these vomit-inducing tones to it, like squeaky voices, high heels on females, flaming gay looking males, pedo-baits, enormous grind, pay to win, heavy instancing… I guess it makes them bad, not good, but combat in them is so much fun and the stories actually feel more compelling. You’re no chosen super hero of doom, but just a well-trained merc, adventurer or soldier, which makes more sense than 10 thousand super heroes running around.

I guess we’re stuck with watered down half-RTS games for a while.

You should check out darkfall and its upcoming sequel darkfall unholy wars. That’s a western MMOARPG with aiming and all that kitten.

Jumper.9482:

Atlas.6901:

I imagine that the CC-lock that Seether mentions actually takes quite a bit of skill. My impression from playing it as that you have to have a fairly deep knowledge of the game to effectively juggle a competent player for any length of time. Also, the game was entirely aim-based.

Every class has a ‘combo breaker’ ability on a 25 second cooldown I believe.
@OP, I think this vid much better represents DN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZveyXikVUCo
Also, from what I remember the Korean WCG last year was filled with Gladiators and Priests (totem spam omg…)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEjBm3kGCvY
Myself soloing the highest level/mode Boss level in the NA Beta a little over a year ago.
(I was also among the first to solo Minotaur’s Nest on NA when it was released)

I think we shouldn’t focus too much on DN as this is GW2 forum :/. Btw, it is 18 second cold down right now in the latest version. And that WCG means nothing to the game because every good players in China/Taiwan was play under some “unspoken rules” to maintain class balance and competitive. But that WCG didn’t adopt those “unspoken rules”. Therefore, champion of that WCG was regard as despicable instead of the most skilled player in the game.

xiNe.6958:

I think we shouldn’t focus too much on DN as this is GW2 forum :/. Btw, it is 18 second cold down right now in the latest version. And that WCG means nothing to the game because every good players in China/Taiwan was play under some “unspoken rules” to maintain class balance and competitive. But that WCG didn’t adopt those “unspoken rules”. Therefore, champion of that WCG was regard as despicable instead of the most skilled player in the game.

A game so balanced that players have to apply their own rules to try to make it fair, sounds like a compelling game.

I watched the videos and it doesn’t look that impressive to watch but that’s probably attributable to having no idea how to play the game. And while this is a completely uninformed opinion, based on what I have observed I would bet that group combat is even sillier than the one on one which requires player enforced rules to keep the game “fair”.

I wouldn’t have considered blocking overpowered as much as it was just so kitten annoying.
>Priest blocks (or throws down totem)
>Forced to run away for 20(?) seconds until the block wore off
>Continue for 10 seconds until block comes up again
>Continue until time limit expires or you kill the noob in 1 combo inbetween cooldowns.
Imagine you’re playing Street Fighter and the guy you’re playing just pauses the game and walks out the room “brb bio”. He comes back 40 seconds later. You resume for 5 more seconds and he pauses again. “brb grabbing a drink”. This repeats over and over.
The unspoken rules are there to make the gameplay even faster paced and fun. Not for balance IMO. These rules were present in Lunia as well. Another common one being ‘In a 2v2, if an enemy dies, take turns 1v1ing the survivor.’

Jumper.9482:

Another common one being ‘In a 2v2, if an enemy dies, take turns 1v1ing the survivor.’

Now all those martial arts movies where the hero slowly defeats huge sums of people that decided to not use their numbers advantage make so much more sense…..

Trevos.6473:

Dude you are desecrating the GW2 forum with this korean or chinese or wth crap.

Um…ArenaNet/NCsoft…Isnt an american Comapny O.O just saying…Pretty sure NCsoft is Korean or Chinese lol

DN is a great game, and its PvP seems like it would be fun 1v1 (sadly PvP was completely unplayable for me in Australia – the netcode is not very good in that game and the gameplay is completely destroyed by any latency.)

However very few abilities in DN interact with your allies in any meaningful way, so I don’t think team play would be very complex.

As for GW2, I feel like we’re only scratching the surface of team play. We don’t seem to see much cooperative character building (eg. “I can go full glass cannon because I am paired with someone that can apply enough defensive boons to keep me alive”, etc)

Dedalus.3065:

Some good gw2 pvp to compare with: http://youtu.be/yzBn32Fqm9w

Talks about PvP.

Gives a link to WvW aka PvAAI (Player vs. Almost Artificial Intelligence).

Makes sense.

leman.7682:

Almost Artificial Intelligence

Thats the stupidest thing I ever saw…

Dedalus.3065:

leman.7682:

Almost Artificial Intelligence

Thats the stupidest thing I ever saw…

You are in denial.
Also – close-to-artificial intelligence just doesn’t work when abbreviated.

Finally, please just leave and go troll your WvW forums.

I haven’t even heard about dragons nest, however I did hear about talbadar and snutz helping out with the new forge game… that seems a bit like bloodline champions in different cover. I like bloodline champions, not saying anything else, but for some reason games like these are to tricky for casual joe and game settle for low population.
Ah well, at the moment planetside 2 fulfill my pvp need… lots of action and combat and many things to do. I didnt even like fps before but this game is really great… and Im as fps noob as one can be =) Highly recommend people to try while waiting for gw2 updates… it’s free as well =)

Watched the 2nd video link by zone, looked good. Wish GW2 had longer combat. Too much burst in this game, folks.

Psikerlord.2569:

Watched the 2nd video link by zone, looked good. Wish GW2 had longer combat. Too much burst in this game, folks.

You can die in 1-combo if you don’t combobreak it correctly.
Just like in GW2 how you can die in 1 hundredblades or backstab if you don’t stunbreak it.
DN is far more unforgiving to casuals than GW2.

Jumper.9482:

You can die in 1-combo if you don’t combobreak it correctly.
Just like in GW2 how you can die in 1 hundredblades or backstab if you don’t stunbreak it.
DN is far more unforgiving to casuals than GW2.

I dont know about that
Based on the video , that person need 40 sec to oblitarate the other
So he has 40 sec to react :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Jumper.9482:

You can die in 1-combo if you don’t combobreak it correctly.
Just like in GW2 how you can die in 1 hundredblades or backstab if you don’t stunbreak it.
DN is far more unforgiving to casuals than GW2.

I dont know about that
Based on the video , that person need 40 sec to oblitarate the other
So he has 40 sec to react :P

http://www.aipai.com/c9/ODc8ICUkIGgnaiMr.html
watch this, you will know more about DN’s pvp in this video. This two guys acutally not differ that much in strength, but because the other guys misused his combobreak skill 1~2times and he got chain hit as shown in the video. Fyi, some of the misused combobreak of the guy being hit was “forced” by his opponent, because he cant use at other time in the combo if he missed that chance as he lose control of the fighting tempo to his opponent and fail to tweak it.

And, those video you watch are undoubtedly newbie players…you should watch some high level play, here is another high level pvp video which demonstrated lighting speed reflexes;
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzY2MTA4ODU2.html

xiNe.6958:

i think the reason that pvp Gameplay of DN compelling more than GW2 was simply because the weigh of “action element” of the game. It is like comparing Street-fighter and League of Legends in terms of attractiveness from the spectator’s point of view; no way to compare. Definitively more “action element” in a game will make it much more easy understandable to public, but it doesn’t matter how competitive the game are, imo.

Part of the reason why GW2 PVP feels so “slow” to me is downed state. It totally ruins the flow and pacing of combat, which IMO seriously diminishes its watchability. Then you have rallying and rezzing, which seriously diminish the excitement of actually downing someone.

That’s before we even touch on how downed state negatively impacts the actual gameplay by hugely favouring numbers over skill, making class imbalances worse, sucking up developer resources that could be getting used to fix the numerous bugs/useless traits, etc.

There’s a reason why no other PVP game has GW2 downed state-like mechanics — it’s a terrible idea. Personally I despise the way DS affects GW2 PVP so much I avoid stPVP completely, and I know I’m not the only one who does.

Dedalus.3065:

leman.7682:

Almost Artificial Intelligence

Thats the stupidest thing I ever saw…

LAWL…..many many times this AAI is even far more stupid than mob’s AI, at last mobs usually get away from aoes…wvswers usually don’t…

So yes this is a stupid thing to say, don’t insult those poor mobs comparing them with wvsw’s zergers…show some respect u.u

I dont think DN will be a game for me. GW2 Warrior’s who chain the cc from their hammer on me are already driving me crazy as the loss of control feels like an eternity, never mind what you see in that video lol