Gw2 and the state of Esport

Gw2 and the state of Esport

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Posted by: Geff.1930

Geff.1930

You can either have a solid PvP game with good balance and fun skill-based PvP, or you can have a good PvE game with regular updates to keep people interested in their PvE characters. You cannot have both.

GW2 PvP popularity has had an inverse relationship with the popularity of SMITE as a competitive e-sport game, because the two games are somewhat similar in design on the grand scale, 3rd person PvP.

Unlike GW2, Moba games can expend all of their resources on creating new characters. They also have a great emphasis on balance and have a systematic and large balance team.
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Now let’s look at the specific gameplay subjects that hinder GW2 competitive PvP.

Most importantly there is too much unrestricted variability in the characters in the game. Mobas have many different characters but each character has a restricted kit, a skillful player knows each character’s kit and can predict/counterplay. The only other sources of variability in mobas are itemization and usually two skills that all characters can choose. The itemization differences are fairly limited, they just change the numbers, but the kits for each character remains intact and predictable. The two optional skills that all characters can choose come from a very limited pool and have very large cooldowns, furthermore each player in the game is made aware of what optional skills each other player has chosen. I have the emphasize that a certain amount of predictability is required for a skill based game.

In GW2 you can think of the weapon a character is holding as their kit as each weapon has a limited set of skills to choose from. This would be fine, but you diminish predictability by adding weapon swap.

Traits are 50/50 in my opinion. There are certain traits that just change the numbers, similar to itemization in mobas, this is fine. But, then you have crazy unpredictable traits that auto-remove CC etc.

Now, on to the greatest source of volatility and randomness in gameplay, utility skills. You can choose not 1, not 2, but 3 customizable utility skills, there is a large pool of highly varied utility skills to choose from and each have a fairly low cooldown. Basically this extends a characters kit, without actually being part of their kit. Remember, kits are supposed to be homogenized and predictable to encourage skillful awareness of your opponents cooldowns and to encourage counterplay.

Utility skills are very different from the optional 2 skills in mobas because those two skills are very limited due to their incredibly long cooldowns and limited usage criteria. Ignoring the two opitional skills, a typical moba character has four low CD skills at their disposal and a high CD ultimate. A typical GW2 character has 5 low CD skills in their actual kit (these are predictable by class and what weapon they are holding). Ofcourse there are variations, eles for instance have 20 low CD skills in their kit because they cannot weapon swap and their weapon predicts the skills available in all their attuments. I repeat the key to a kit is predictability. Now, a typical GW2 has a total of 5 + 3 = 8 unpredictable, non-kit skills at their disposal from their alternative weapon set and utility skills. I’m ignoring heals and elites for the moment because elites have a long cooldown situational use, and heals have limited variability in their options. The optional heals and elites certainly increase the randomness, but not as much as utility skills.

All these unpredictable skills and the plethora of low cooldown skills available to any character at any given moment introduces an element of randomness to the gameplay. Your success in a fight is certainly dependent to a certain extent on your skill level, but there are too many random factors involved as well. Because of so many low CD skills the game becomes incredibly skill spammy and there is no such thing as punishing a wasted CD or taking advantage of an opportunity where a player is vulnerable due to losing his CDs.

Low CD temporary invulnerabilities through dodges and the high access to heals and regen effects in the the game creates an artificial necessity for the skill spammy nature of this game.

I’m not saying any of this cannot be changed to make the game more competitive and skillful. But, I believe there is a great reluctance on the part of the devs to make big overhauling changes. Part of the reason is the lack of resources and the lack of emphasis on PvP.

(edited by Geff.1930)

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Posted by: Alissah.9281

Alissah.9281

the reason no one really cares about pvp, is because people care about getting “rewards” in pve.

about 90% of the gaming population nowadyas seem so focussed on rewards that nothing else matters anymore >__<

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Posted by: fodem.2713

fodem.2713

Well, I never played Pve so I can’t say about Pve rewards… I can say that is not only about “rewards” but making your character unique, different armour etc with the points you have earned in pvp….

As for not been predictable I doubt it very much… If you know about your class, the opponent is very predictable… Please tell me just 1 thief that doesn’t have " shadowstep, shadow refuge or blinding powder" in at least 1 of their utilities… Just know the game and you will see is super predictable, there is no such build diversity. We have LOTS of traits , and still we can take 2 or 3 kinds of build for each class in 99% of the players, that means we tend to use the same traits, and of course no diversity….

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Posted by: twity.4732

twity.4732

Just looking at people being able to write paragraphs on the subject, shows how much we care about the game. Honestly, I love playing this game and am so frustrated to see how imbalanced things get for extended periods of time.

Look at lol. It’s not fun to watch. But it’s simple and balanced. That’s esports for you… Balance.

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Posted by: Geff.1930

Geff.1930

I no longer play this game. But, you can see from my long post that I still have a keen interest in this game and want its PvP to succeed. I believe this is one of the most visually complex games on the market. The map designs , character animations and character designs are spectacular and well beyond their time. The gameplay and balance, from a strictly PvP perspective, is substandard. My advice to devs would be to not look at competing mmorpgs for PvP balance ideas, instead look at competing mobas.

I will continue to observe this game’s progress in patch notes.

the reason no one really cares about pvp, is because people care about getting “rewards” in pve.

about 90% of the gaming population nowadyas seem so focussed on rewards that nothing else matters anymore >__<

http://i.imgur.com/urPRvEh.jpg

(edited by Geff.1930)

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Posted by: KrisHQ.4719

KrisHQ.4719

Great post from Geff.
I will keep a look-out for his future posts, and so should everybody else.
One of the few players that actually has a clue about what needs to be done, and more importantly; Why.

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Posted by: thefantasticg.3984

thefantasticg.3984

So, I don’t PVP but have an immense dislike for the balancing that is done around PVP… I wouldn’t hate PVP and actually give it a chance if they quit ruining my PVE/Dungeon builds with balancing done because of meta problems in PVP. Split it 100% and I wouldn’t have any issues with PVP thus have a much more favorable view of it. I say this from what I have seen over there it doesn’t look like many people at all participate in sPVP (thats the one anyone can walk up and see the 5vs5 server list, right?).

Of course, then there is the issue of why would I want to spend my valuable time watching some people PVP in a capture node setup? Why is that fun when you have 1 or 2 metas facerolling? I don’t know anyone that actually watches PVP matches of any kind. I know some that’ll do some PVP, but watch it? Why watch it when we can play it?

RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.

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Posted by: Archaon.6245

Archaon.6245

Title itself must be a troll…