How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?
How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?
I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?
Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.
You can have the single target weak as hell fear, it’s only mildly helpful because it’s one of probably 2 stun breaks a necro will have, and without any form of mobility stun breaks are life. Also if that necro managed to kill a whole team that bunched up on a point it’s cause your entire team was terribad spread out. If you honestly think anything a necro has is broken go play one for a bit… I have never once felt over powered or even powerful as a necro, I have out played some scrubs but that’s it. Any half competent player who’s specced properly for pvp has at best run away from me as a necro or often killed me.
I don’t think necro is broken at all. I just think it’s extremely powerful. I’m not sure why you don’t think necro is poweful. Maybe you are running more of a hybrid build.
Also, that “weak” fear is not weak at all. It was my favorite ability in the necro arsenal back when I played it a lot. It saved me from dying to warriors, thieves, and eles or served as the perfect heal interrupt. I would love that on my thief.
It’s actually almost 4 seconds if i remember right. 3.75 or something.
Add it to the list of things that need to be nerfed, along with 4 second guardian stolen daze, and steal’s mug damage, kthnx.
Mate its 3 seconds…. but thieves got + condition duration on our trees too so i gets boosted a lil
If we only discuss whether or not stolen fear is broken it comes a rather tedious discussion, where we can bang each other heads with slogans like “Yes, it is” & “No, it isn’t” (getting associations to MPFC here).
Anyway, I have to agree with Payne … Necro’s does not exactly strike me as weak … some traits are almost mandatory in any build, some weapons are not performing too well compared to others. But you can opt for very nice CC and almost go full glass with it … and be able to fend off anything that comes your way making it mandatory to be focused asap. Seen in that context, stolen fear strikes me as incredibly annoying but not unfair.
in fact necro seems to have a few viable builds, which is cool. but we’re talking about the thief here who has everything and then some. even the stuff they dont need >.<
Thief does not have everything… but the necro fear issue isnt anything to whine about…. it has quite some conditions to work you know:
1. Steal is not on cooldown(45 seconds coooldown)
2.You must steal from necro(in most battles necros keep far side or in forest of nifhel sit on ledges making that imposible(unless im on ledge or im going to bother shadowsteping just for fear))
3.1 second cast time
4. Obvious animation(thief raises hand in air for 1 second)(its the only unique animation for thief, can be instantly told what it is)
4 seconds is longer than necro fear. what exactly are you stealing? not the necro fear, thats for sure. it’s as if the thief steals it and makes it 4 times better.
Its not 4 seconds kitten lol … its 3 seconds. but thieves got + condition duration on our trait lines too you know. Its also on power line so a lot of thieves got a lot of points in it. Thats what makes it OP.
The only thing that should be done, is that it should not scale with condition duration maybe, thats it.
Reaper’s Protection 2 second passive fear, can be made into 3 seconds with + cond duration and so on, as your passive trait. Maybe thats what we steal ?
With master of terror + necromancers runes + condition duration you can have 4 second fear too, oh wait you didnt know that.
@Stin: Aren’t you a bit on the fence now … or grasping at straws?
The animation-thing … it is like the people saying Moa can easily be countered/dodged, which is imho not true; it is highly situational. And thieves DO steal fear (at least I do meet thieves a lot that do it, not to mention I do it myself). And necro’s are (rightfully) being focused (which is ok).
And Reapers Protection … seriously; it is a trait, why bring that up?
Stolen fear strikes me as incredibly annoying if you are pugging and being chain-feared, but that is about it imho.
@Stin: Aren’t you a bit on the fence now … or grasping at straws?
The animation-thing … it is like the people saying Moa can easily be countered/dodged, which is imho not true; it is highly situational. And thieves DO steal fear (at least I do meet thieves a lot that do it, not to mention I do it myself). And necro’s are (rightfully) being focused (which is ok).
And Reapers Protection … seriously; it is a trait, why bring that up?
Stolen fear strikes me as incredibly annoying if you are pugging and being chain-feared, but that is about it imho.
That reapers protection was just to show that necros have longer fears then only said 1 second fear.+50% trait which makes it 3 seconds too.
Anyways as a thief myself i can tell that animation from other ones, allready unless its an asura.(small nasty things with barely notiable animations).
As i mentioned above culprit is not the stolen 3 second fear. Its that our power line has + condition duration in it. A lot of thieves take 10-30 points in it, boosting that fear up to 4 seconds.
3 seconds fear is reasonable in my opinion, and it has some conditions to be available too to suceed.
It was my answer to Nerva’s saying they should get 1 second fear. yes 1 second fear with 1 second cast time, how much of a win … rly.
I find thief fear to be more annoying than gamebreaking. While it could be toned down by a second or two its really not that bad. There is a reason you can pop DS during fear.
I find thief fear to be more annoying than gamebreaking. While it could be toned down by a second or two its really not that bad. There is a reason you can pop DS during fear.
True true … provided you have any LF. I have tried being feared the moment I showed up in an entire spvp-match – sometimes the people in pugs are not all that stupid :P
And since many of us like to use LF for dealing damage, it is annoying to use one of the solid ways to deal damage to survive, if you know what I mean. It depends on build etc … but I hope you get my point.
Yeah understandable, I run a power build so I also love to use DS for damage. I’m more speaking from a tpvp perspective. Saving DS for a defensive tool will benefit you more.
why is it ok for a thief to have an untraited 4s fear,
Except that it’s 3s, and it is traited to be 4s. To me it seems like you’re trying to enlarge things to justify your QQ which has the opposite effect.
with the click of one button?
What? You really think it’d be less stronger if it was placed on 2 buttons (or 3 or 4)?
Oh, and it is the thieves’ profession skill to do that ‘4s’ fear, while necros get Death Shroud. Now tell me more about how good if that fear on a 40s cooldown vs. Death Shroud. kthxbye
Reaper’s protection is a strictly defensive trait, you need to be cc’d for it to activate so you can’t really be killing anyone while they’re feared, and it’s on a 90s cd. Increasing the duration of this fear is not really useful and nobody takes the 50% increase fear duration anyway since it’s not powerful enough on our 1s fears to justify wasting a trait point.
Thieves get 3 second AOE fear 45s cd without the need to invest in any trait points. Necro’s AOE staff fear lasts 1s and has 40 second cd untraited. Even with max condition duration necro, I think it only ever goes up to 1 1/4s, and now I hear the thief power line which most thieves take anyway can increase it to 4s?
there is a trait of the necro that put fear on opponent if you are CC. it works 100% against a thief who decided to steal you.
btw if you see a thief with both arms down maybe it means he is channeling. blind/fear/stun/daze him and he will waste fear+chances he is dead meat.
edit: i didnt read allthe thread, but it seems someone already talked about that trait
there is a trait of the necro that put fear on opponent if you are CC. it works 100% against a thief who decided to steal you.
btw if you see a thief with both arms down maybe it means he is channeling. blind/fear/stun/daze him and he will waste fear+chances he is dead meat.
edit: i didnt read allthe thread, but it seems someone already talked about that trait
1. Reaper’s Protection is T2 Death Magic trait. This means you are going to take anyway Reanimator and Protection of the Horde, two completely useless traits in most situations.
2. If you pick up Reaper’s Protection, you are not taking either Greater Marks or Staff Mastery, which are pretty much must-have traits on most Necros, at least compared to a 2s fear on a 90s cooldown.
Also, Skull fear can be casted in stealth. How you see someone raising his hands to fear someone when he is invisible?
Massive aoe thief fear isn’t broken because necro’s are actually good at something in Tpvp!
What?!?
That’d be like Mesmers being the crappiest at applying confusion while thief can do an aoe x10 confusion skill then saying "BUT MESMER HAZ CLONES AND 1V1.
What?!
I for one would be glad to have it replaced with something like a full boon strip or condition spam skill instead of a fear that is actually by far stronger than Warrior 80 second cd shout. Atleast the warrior has to slot his and it has a long cd.
Massive aoe thief fear isn’t broken because necro’s are actually good at something in Tpvp!
Yeah, I was wondering why people were discussing the general power level of necromancers as if it had anything to do with the topic at hand.
I also wonder why people seem to be implying that a 1-second (the wiki says 1/2-second, but whatever) cast time is a long cast time. It’s not.
I mean, if that’s the case, then an elementalist’s Fire Grab sucks because it has a long cast time (it’s 1 second (the wiki says it’s 3/4-second, 1.5x as long as Skull Fear’s, but whatever)), and we need to have the skill lined up at the end of that period or it’ll miss. Fire Grab also has the same cooldown as steal.
Churning Earth should also simply 1-shot anyone we hit with it because it’s got a 3.25-second cast time (during which we cannot move). That’s three times (actually 6.5x) as long as a “long” cast time. Anyone who whines about getting 1-shot by the game’s slowest and most obvious AoE needs to l2p.
Massive aoe thief fear isn’t broken because necro’s are actually good at something in Tpvp!
I also wonder why people seem to be implying that a 1-second (the wiki says 1/2-second, but whatever) cast time is a long cast time. It’s not.
Well, for Reaper Mark the cast time is bad just because a 1 second fear is usually only good for interupting something, and the small delay makes it alot harder to use as an interupt as opposed to an instant Doom.
I think we can all agree that the fear length needs to be reduced, but I think most of the complaints come from spvp or people in 1v1 situations. If your playing with a group (tpvp) using some type of voice chat the fear isn’t that big of an issue. You call out the thief just feared you and your teammates should already be on the thief. There you go dead thief.
How are thieves going to use fear when there is no necro to steal it from?
Regarding the cast time – even though the actual cast time is only .5s iirc it takes about 2s for the effect to kick in. Any daze/knockdown/stun/launch/fear will interrupt that fear during those 2 seconds. After that you got 35-45s CD on your only class mechanic, good kitten. In larger scaled fights the chance to land that fear is probably only 50% unless you stealth.
youre stealing a fear that doesnt exist. there is no 4 second fear on the necro. this could be a misnomer of the ability. should be called “steal and buff”. or we could just reduce the fear’s length. thieves just dont need it.
youre stealing a fear that doesnt exist. there is no 4 second fear on the necro. this could be a misnomer of the ability. should be called “steal and buff”. or we could just reduce the fear’s length. thieves just dont need it.
So? Thieves can steal other abilities too that don’t have a direct counterpart for the profession the ability was stolen from.
Ice Shard Stab gives a 10 second chill. No other ability that I know of can do that. Consume Ectoplasm provides all boons for 10 seconds. Mace Head Crack gives a four second daze. As far as I know Guardians can’t daze at all outside of their elite skill. Engineers would probably love to be able to throw down an ethereal field a la Throw Gunk.
This whole thread reeks of “a Thief killed me and I’m mad!”
[Edit: For the record, I play a Ranger. I don’t even like the Thief profession.]
youre stealing a fear that doesnt exist. there is no 4 second fear on the necro. this could be a misnomer of the ability. should be called “steal and buff”. or we could just reduce the fear’s length. thieves just dont need it.
So? Thieves can steal other abilities too that don’t have a direct counterpart for the profession the ability was stolen from.
Ice Shard Stab gives a 10 second chill. No other ability that I know of can do that. Consume Ectoplasm provides all boons for 10 seconds. Mace Head Crack gives a four second daze. As far as I know Guardians can’t daze at all outside of their elite skill. Engineers would probably love to be able to throw down an ethereal field a la Throw Gunk.
This whole thread reeks of “a Thief killed me and I’m mad!”
^^^ THIS, so kittening much THIS! ^^^
The Thief professions defining mechanic is Steal, that’s why the abilities are strong. If they were kitten then Steal wouldn’t ever be used. Also, anyone who has even bothered to spend 10 seconds learning about the Thief would know that the Steal ability doesn’t literally steal something from the enemy, it just gives them ability related to it, as explained above by someone who spent a maximum of 10 seconds reading about the Thief profession.
Honestly, the ignorance in this thread is astounding… But then again, it’s no different to 99.99% of Thief QQ threads.
make fear non scaling with condi duration, reduce cast time to .5s and reduce the fear duration to 2s.
this seems like a great suggestion. 2s is long enough to cause some serious disruption and damage, but not so long that a necro bunker is virtually nullified by one thief. perhaps because there arent many necro bunkers out there we’re not hearing much support for a change like this. but believe me, the 4s fear is atrocious if youre the only one on point.
Consume Ectoplasm provides all boons for 10 seconds. Mace Head Crack gives a four second daze. As far as I know Guardians can’t daze at all outside of their elite skill.
Lol when you think about it the stolen Guardian/Mesmer skills should be swapped. Oo
The Thief professions defining mechanic is Steal, that’s why the abilities are strong. If they were kitten then Steal wouldn’t ever be used. Also, anyone who has even bothered to spend 10 seconds learning about the Thief would know that the Steal ability doesn’t literally steal something from the enemy, it just gives them ability related to it, as explained above by someone who spent a maximum of 10 seconds reading about the Thief profession.
Honestly, the ignorance in this thread is astounding… But then again, it’s no different to 99.99% of Thief QQ threads.
I believe it’s more of a case of necro’s being mad that they aren’t the best Fear’ers.
Hell, the whole large pbaoe 4s+ fear thing has been a defining skill for nearly every necro/warlock class of most games i’ve played.
make fear non scaling with condi duration, reduce cast time to .5s and reduce the fear duration to 2s.
this seems like a great suggestion. 2s is long enough to cause some serious disruption and damage, but not so long that a necro bunker is virtually nullified by one thief. perhaps because there arent many necro bunkers out there we’re not hearing much support for a change like this. but believe me, the 4s fear is atrocious if youre the only one on point.
Again, I’d prefer a strong boon strip to replace it if anything. Thief is lacking in that regard anyway.
It takes 4s to neutralize a point. Just wanna put that out there.
Is stolen fear broken? No, cause stun breaks exist for this reason.
Is stolen fear kinda silly considering its better than any fear a necro has? Yes, at least in beta doom was aoe. But necro’s have multiple fear sources.
Massive aoe thief fear isn’t broken because necro’s are actually good at something in Tpvp!
What?!?
That’d be like Mesmers being the crappiest at applying confusion while thief can do an aoe x10 confusion skill then saying "BUT MESMER HAZ CLONES AND 1V1.
What?!
I for one would be glad to have it replaced with something like a full boon strip or condition spam skill instead of a fear that is actually by far stronger than Warrior 80 second cd shout. Atleast the warrior has to slot his and it has a long cd.
Haven’t you noticed lately that some discussions have been reduced to “yes it is” and “no, it isn’t”? Certainly a constructive way to argue, right?
Since it makes little to no sense to argue about an single variable and treat it as isolated when it is in reality tied to a lot of other variables, emotions do play a role and so does the context.
In itself stolen fear might seem to ott, but in a bigger picture it is imho not that big a deal. A lot of things are ott when looked upon isolated … where do you want to start? And how would it look if we just took each skill isolated? I believe it is mostly necro’s crying over this one, and hence the bigger picture of the balance between the classes can’t be completely irrelevant? If we are talking about an even bigger picture, then there are many other ways to counter it.
I hope it clarifies why some of us went a bit off-topic here
replace it with a 2second poison, and it’ll be pretty balanced.
Seriously? That would be the most useless stolen ability ever, not to mention the third strike in the Thief D/D auto-attack chain already does that.. how ridiculous that you would even suggest that.
replace it with a 2second poison, and it’ll be pretty balanced.
so the necro you’re facing, yes because if you stole fear you’re fighting a necro, can remove or give it back to you? Really useful… 2 sec poison rofl
as a S/D thief it’s already hard to beat a good necro 1vs1 even with aoe fear from steal…sometimes it’s useful to land one more tactical strike while he’s running away from you, but it’s not a win skill, people can deal with it and it does not make all that difference…best use for it it’s to push people out of points, but thieves are not bunkers, so you’re not gonna hold it alone anyway…expec vs a necro..
Talkin’ about S/D and don’t even consider BS HS or glass crap like that because during the stolen fear cast time you’ll be already dead vs any decent necro with a glass cannon..
Talkin’ about S/D and don’t even consider BS HS or glass crap like that because during the stolen fear cast time you’ll be already dead vs any decent necro with a glass cannon..
That is absolutely untrue. Just test it in actual game.
Cast 4s fear while stealthed -> mash buttons in a random order while under quickness -> win.
Probably you need some extra heartseeker, but it doesn’t matters.
Just imagine stolen fear being used on another thief. Balanced, uh?
Talkin’ about S/D and don’t even consider BS HS or glass crap like that because during the stolen fear cast time you’ll be already dead vs any decent necro with a glass cannon..
That is absolutely untrue. Just test it in actual game.
Cast 4s fear while stealthed -> mash buttons in a random order while under quickness -> win.
Probably you need some extra heartseeker, but it doesn’t matters.
Just imagine stolen fear being used on another thief. Balanced, uh?
I as thief carry as much stunbreaks survivals as no other class bothers to take tbh, and if he had fear ready, he did his preparations, Making it instant cast would ruin it. Right now it can be used steal from necro. Wait 45 seconds> start casting fear>steal again and fear all tagets around yours. You can do it each 90 seconds but thats guaranteed fear around my target.
Anyways as a thief i got 4 skills ussable while under cc/fear to save my kitten
1.Shadowstep
2.Swords infiltrators strike comeback move
3.Steal(im still cced but i changed my location giving some enemies a headache).
4.Blinding powder(invisibility which can be used when cc’ed)
If he cought me off withouth having at least 2/4 ready ill die accepting i was not prepared for a fight. And yes that fear is realy decent skill.
I could whine how necro kitten’s thieves elite skill dagger storm
Dagger storm>gain stability 8 seconds>corrupt boon>8 second stability>fear>elite ruined you run in fear. You know what thieves said when in our forum? Deal with it, we all got some counters like Lich form or others are countered by moa of mesmer.
How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?
How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?
I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?
Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.
oh wow, I thought I`d never live to see this, a thief whining about necros lol…
Honestly mate, I dont care how many tournaments you won, or how good you or others think you are, but a necro sitting on a point, killing an entire team in seconds ? Really? You`re either
A – lying
B – part of a team where everyone is afk
C – part of a team where every player has a maximum of 500 hp
Thank you for the laugh, this was a good one.
I as thief carry as much stunbreaks survivals as no other class bothers to take tbh, and if he had fear ready, he did his preparations, Making it instant cast would ruin it. Right now it can be used steal from necro. Wait 45 seconds> start casting fear>steal again and fear all tagets around yours. You can do it each 90 seconds but thats guaranteed fear around my target.
Anyways as a thief i got 4 skills ussable while under cc/fear to save my kitten
1.Shadowstep
2.Swords infiltrators strike comeback move
3.Steal(im still cced but i changed my location giving some enemies a headache).
4.Blinding powder(invisibility which can be used when cc’ed)
If he cought me off withouth having at least 2/4 ready ill die accepting i was not prepared for a fight. And yes that fear is realy decent skill.
I could whine how necro kitten’s thieves elite skill dagger storm
Dagger storm>gain stability 8 seconds>corrupt boon>8 second stability>fear>elite ruined you run in fear. You know what thieves said when in our forum? Deal with it, we all got some counters like Lich form or others are countered by moa of mesmer.
I see that you tried to avoid the point.
Obviously, the point of this topic isn’t Dagger Storm or Corrupt Boon.
The point of this topic is that a Thief can fear someone for 4s with a peak of 8s of fear consecutively, as you pointed out, which is clearly unbalanced (yes, also Fear Me is, as you surely will point out, but at least it hasn’t that huge AoE).
The fact that thieves have an huge amount of stunbreakers, doesn’t mean that every profession has. Maybe taking thief as example was a sad choice.
How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?
How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?
I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?
Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.
oh wow, I thought I`d never live to see this, a thief whining about necros lol…
Honestly mate, I dont care how many tournaments you won, or how good you or others think you are, but a necro sitting on a point, killing an entire team in seconds ? Really? You`re either
A – lying
B – part of a team where everyone is afk
C – part of a team where every player has a maximum of 500 hp
Thank you for the laugh, this was a good one.
Any condi necro with half a brain that is left alone during a fight at a point say mid at khylo will melt the enemy team. What he is saying is somewhat true but I wouldn’t say that makes necro’s OP. That’s why you don’t leave someone spamming aoes untouched.
if you guys are dying to the 30/30/10 glass cannon, then your team needs to l2p. the necro glass cannon can be focused down in seconds by two good players. and thats not even the deadliest necro spec.
How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?
You’d think people learned by now not to stand in fire…
Outside of you “must stand in circles to win” gameplay necros are completely and utterly garbage. Why? Because designing class based on other people’s ineptitude does not work.
Try this for a change – leave the circle and come back in 10s when that swirly black-and-green looking stuff on the ground goes away.
How is the fact that a necro literally standing in one spot spamming aoes on a point able to kill an entire team by themselves in a matter of seconds not broken?
How is the fact that if that necro is not dealt with immediately, your team will lose the team fight 100% of the time not broken?
I wonder why every team is now running at least one necro……?
Also, I would much rather steal your off global cooldown, single target instant fear over this clunky AOE fear that can be easily interrupted and lost forever.
oh wow, I thought I`d never live to see this, a thief whining about necros lol…
Honestly mate, I dont care how many tournaments you won, or how good you or others think you are, but a necro sitting on a point, killing an entire team in seconds ? Really? You`re either
A – lying
B – part of a team where everyone is afk
C – part of a team where every player has a maximum of 500 hp
Thank you for the laugh, this was a good one.
Any condi necro with half a brain that is left alone during a fight at a point say mid at khylo will melt the enemy team. What he is saying is somewhat true but I wouldn’t say that makes necro’s OP. That’s why you don’t leave someone spamming aoes untouched.
I know a necro left unchecked can turn the tide of a fight. So can ANY of the classes if played right. What amazed me is how a single necro can kill a whole team in SECONDS.
