Guild Wars 2

I am thinking of writing a book on how to create a game and destroy it within 5 years. Please give me ideas of how to do this.

Any suggestions must be based on first hand experience… including PvP experiences.

All the best.

When after 1year+ of community driven competitive scene in WvW (regardless of 0 support from Anet) a developer interrupts a GvG by saying “Stop violating my game mode”.

Having 8 playable characters with many various builds but only having 5 be viable with only one respective build each.

Spending all the company money on esports instead of making meaningful content and balance tweaks.

Not having a public test realm for players to personally test new changes to offer feedback.

Allowing WvW, dungeons, fractals, and spvp lack any type of meaningful rewards.

Creating a system where good players are matched up against bad players to synthetically push the good players to higher ranks.

Having a large off period between PvP seasons.

Letting the beginning of a PvP season be full of incredibly OP specs, pushing out anything else.

Time gated content.

Not separating stats/damage/number coefficients between PvE and PvP.

Father Busho.2796:

When after 1year+ of community driven competitive scene in WvW (regardless of 0 support from Anet) a developer interrupts a GvG by saying “Stop violating my game mode”.

Touché!

Sadly Arenanet has been clueless about WvWvW. It seems the developers think that adding a lot of gimmicks and pve is what most WvWvW players want. I am now talking about stuff like dragon banners, airship strike, jumping pads, automatic turrets which shoot fire or air blasts, which can knock you off and pve shrines to capture, more difficult and different NPCs for every new borderland keep and tower. I am sure the developers spent (= wasted) a lot of time developing these, even though the vast majority hates them.

For years WvWvW players have been asking for better balance in both meta and population. And less lag and fixing the glitches and bugs. Yet these main problems continue to plague WvWvW. We still got game breaking lag, druids and guardians can fly into air keep at borderlands and the boring pirate ship meta continues.

I see similar patterns in spvp as well:
Majority of players hate Skyhammer map, yet the developers have been forcing us to play that map in unranked. Outside seasons, you are forced to play unranked, so the reply “why don’t you just play ranked” doesn’t fix the issue. And we still cannot do anything productive while waiting many minutes in queue (I am sure all spvp players would be happy if there would be more options to do while stuck in queue).

The June 23 trait rework patch + HoT expansion completely wrecked the balance and lead to massive power creep. Removal of amulets did not lead to richer meta, instead we got lots of valid builds deleted. The current meta can be described as follows: “burst first to win”. Almost every match is either a huge loss or huge win as the utterly broken meta + match making together lead to snow balling. Basically the team which wins the 1st mid fight usually wins the entire match. Even matches and comebacks are way too rare. It is like watching soccer (= football for us Europeans) where most of the games are 10-1 or 1-10 and the one who makes the first goal wins. Real soccer is of course tons better and by far the most popular sports in the world. The world championship of football gather several billion viewers to TV screen. The final game is the most watched TV event on this planet. GW2 on the other hand gathers very few streamers and very few people watch those streams.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Father Busho.2796:

When after 1year+ of community driven competitive scene in WvW (regardless of 0 support from Anet) a developer interrupts a GvG by saying “Stop violating my game mode”.

GW2 on the other hand gathers very few streamers and very few people watch those streams.

I’ve tried showing my friends this game saying, “PvP is so great! Watch this! I’m about to kill someone!” They watch, I turn to them bright eyed and giddy, and they look at me like, “, what exactly happened?”

In other games and sports, it’s easy and clear to see what exactly happened, and why. Who is winning and why. In this game, unless you really know the in’s and out’s, you’re going to be lost. Hence the tiny viewerbase on twitch for this game. WoW with it’s outdated graphics and old combat system has 1,000+ more viewers than GW2. Go figure.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The June 23 trait rework patch + HoT expansion completely wrecked the balance and lead to massive power creep. Removal of amulets did not lead to richer meta, instead we got lots of valid builds deleted. The current meta can be described as follows: “burst first to win”. Almost every match is either a huge loss or huge win as the utterly broken meta + match making together lead to snow balling.

This so very much. It still baffles that within 4 months (June 2015 to October 2015) Arena Net managed to completely destroy one of the most fun combat systems ever designed. I certainly won’t deny that the game had problems even before June 2015 and that after 3 years the game was growing stale. But that was never because of the combat system. It was mainly for the complete lack of new maps, game modes and meaningful content. In retrospect it looks like years of development were wasted to improve a system that didn’t need improving.

That was the day old stability died, isn’kitten

Try to balance PvP, PvE and GvG altogether.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I see similar patterns in spvp as well:
Majority of players hate Skyhammer map, yet the developers have been forcing us to play that map in unranked. Outside seasons, you are forced to play unranked, so the reply “why don’t you just play unranked” doesn’t fix the issue.

Yes.

The June 23 trait rework patch + HoT expansion completely wrecked the balance and lead to massive power creep. Removal of amulets did not lead to richer meta, instead we got lots of valid builds deleted. The current meta can be described as follows: “burst first to win”. Almost every match is either a huge loss or huge win as the utterly broken meta + match making together lead to snow balling.

I think there’s nothing more to say.
This sums it at all up for the most part.

This matchmaking is just beyond ridiculous.

Ignoring a community who persistently asks for certain reasonable changes.

-Dueling (just an arena somewhere exclusive in PvE land or LA)
-Mounts (with no stat advantages)
-Bunny Ears
-Boxing Gloves
-GvG
-Balance
-WvW
-Raid releases
-Legendary Releases
-Lack Of Communication
-Solo Q

As someone else said:
When after 1year+ of community driven competitive scene in WvW (regardless of 0 support from Anet) a developer interrupts a GvG by saying “Stop violating my game mode”

I laughed so hard at the bunny ears. You are the best.

Can I play?

Ok, so when you start a pro league tourney and put down $400k in rewards, instead of balancing the most disgusting meta you ever created, you leave it just as disgusting for months and let the entire esports viewing community literally spam living hatred in the very chat you’re trying to attract new players with.

Okay, I think I’m getting good at this game now.

When you launch your game and one of the biggest streamers pulls in thousands upon thousands of viewers putting your game on the top of twitch’s viewer count, you permanently ban his account for taking advantage of developers mistakes. Literally using him to set an example.

I’m available for tryouts…

Trap your players in one of the most depressing maps in the entire game as they wait for their queues.

Hammerguard.9834:

When you launch your game and one of the biggest streamers pulls in thousands upon thousands of viewers putting your game on the top of twitch’s viewer count, you permanently ban his account for taking advantage of developers mistakes. Literally using him to set an example.

This…….

Anet already desroty WvW, now they are going to destory PvP

When your own pvp community sets up tourneys and events funded by Anet to help keep the community interested and having fun, don’t hand out any of the rewards any of the participants won so they all lose a large portion of their motivation to give a kitten.

Deniara Devious.3948:

The June 23 trait rework patch + HoT expansion completely wrecked the balance and lead to massive power creep.

I would pay to be able to play a pre-June 2015 version of the game again. I would pay more for a 2014 version.

There’s so much in this thread I’d like to +1 but..

vana.5467:

I would pay to be able to play a pre-June 2015 version of the game again. I would pay more for a 2014 version.

+ over 9000

I don’t wanna be that guy but… you do realize that this sort of feedback does nothing to improve the game, don’t you?

For starters, OP has gone to the pvp forums at the beginning of a season with whacky matchmaking (to say the least) just so that they may feed off other people’s frustrations with any part of the game. What’s exactly the point of this post? Venting?

Regarding balance… as a 2-year Necro player I don’t want to go back to 2014 balance. I get that there may be people out there that feels as Necros did two years ago when nobody wanted their class, or their minions where the most broken part of the game, or we could not life-siphon properly or… you get my point. Balance is not perfect with such a complex combat system, but I don’t think it was any better in 2014 than it is now, unless you understand balance as having the top-tier profession as your main.

Sometimes you have to be harsh to make people listen. ANET have been persistently ignoring community requests/suggestions regarding the direction of game development in pvp and wvw for several years now. Their hubris is truly staggering and worthy of a Greek tragedy. Their nemesis in the form of multiple new mmo releases is also rapidly approaching. What a shame.

Uete.3805:

I don’t wanna be that guy but… you do realize that this sort of feedback does nothing to improve the game, don’t you?

For starters, OP has gone to the pvp forums at the beginning of a season with whacky matchmaking (to say the least) just so that they may feed off other people’s frustrations with any part of the game. What’s exactly the point of this post? Venting?

Regarding balance… as a 2-year Necro player I don’t want to go back to 2014 balance. I get that there may be people out there that feels as Necros did two years ago when nobody wanted their class, or their minions where the most broken part of the game, or we could not life-siphon properly or… you get my point. Balance is not perfect with such a complex combat system, but I don’t think it was any better in 2014 than it is now, unless you understand balance as having the top-tier profession as your main.

Balance is a subjective term, and it depends on who you ask. For us warriors, 2014 was they year you can include thieves as well.

And also you should get mad at people who are disappointed in the system. In 2012/2014, you would have been this guy.

Letting incompetent higher ups make decisions about weither a balance split between pvp/pve is needed.

Just look at skills like the berserker heal for warrior. Even the worst game designer in the world would realise you have to split balance between modes.

Anomaly.7612:

Spending all the company money on esports instead of making meaningful content

Can you please think before you post the same meaningless stuff over and over?

Investing money in esports is the same as running an advertisement. The money comes out of the public relations fund.
You spent money in the hope, that it will attract more customers and earn your company more $$ than you invested.

Quote from a dev on twitch: Investing in esports was the best advertisement they ever did.

Best RL-example how advertising is working: Every heard of Red Bull? The little red bull can is the product from which they earn their millions. Every other place you see their logo is to advertise for the energy drink.
Yes, ‘Red Bull Racing’, Soccer Clubs and so on are ALL just to advertising the energy drink.

Uete.3805:

I don’t wanna be that guy but… you do realize that this sort of feedback does nothing to improve the game, don’t you?

For starters, OP has gone to the pvp forums at the beginning of a season with whacky matchmaking (to say the least) just so that they may feed off other people’s frustrations with any part of the game. What’s exactly the point of this post? Venting?

Regarding balance… as a 2-year Necro player I don’t want to go back to 2014 balance. I get that there may be people out there that feels as Necros did two years ago when nobody wanted their class, or their minions where the most broken part of the game, or we could not life-siphon properly or… you get my point. Balance is not perfect with such a complex combat system, but I don’t think it was any better in 2014 than it is now, unless you understand balance as having the top-tier profession as your main.

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing. They should be pleased to be able to have such a direct real-time avenue to connect with their customers.

Most players don’t run to the forums and cry foul at the drop of the hat. The pent up frustration and anger that you tend to see is from a period of time of keeping it in. Now I know that the arena net devs balk at posts that aren’t worded to not offend, and their moderator team does an exceptional job at censoring the posts that truly express customer satisfaction….yet at the bottom of all this you have extremely unhappy customers who still care about your product. They care about your product A LOT. So while they may not express how we’d all like to see they are still expressing it.

I hope to be playing this game for years to come, but on it’s current path I don’t see that happening tbh. For some reason there is total disconnect between players and devs, and that is NEVER a good thing.

Thanks

Azukas.1426:

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing.

There is a vocal minority of displeased people (happy folks don’t feel the need to post), so I don’t think these threads are representative at all.

Azukas.1426:

Most players don’t run to the forums and cry foul at the drop of the hat.

Yes they most definitely do. In fact, this is exactly how I would describe the PvP subforum to anyone to asked.

Salamander.2504:

Azukas.1426:

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing.

There is a vocal minority of displeased people (happy folks don’t feel the need to post), so I don’t think these threads are representative at all.

Well, only a minority is vocal but it is a logical fallacy if you think that mean, that the minority is pleased.

We can only take into consideration, how many threads are created over which period and use the past as a comparison. Without access to more numbers (e.g. How many players stopped playing after a losing spread? Are the number of losing spreads actually getting lower by now?) we can’t tell anything for sure.

For me personally, it feels like the current outcry was the biggest I have very experienced on this PvP forums. The outcry at the start of the last season was pretty big, but I think the current one (which is still going on) left it already behind. Even the outcries regarding balancing (e.g. when ArenaNet tried to introduce Rune of Perplexity) were way smaller.

I also wanna add: I’m glad that there are still so many players caring about the game and sharing constructive feedback.

Salamander.2504:

Azukas.1426:

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing.

There is a vocal minority of displeased people (happy folks don’t feel the need to post), so I don’t think these threads are representative at all.

Azukas.1426:

Most players don’t run to the forums and cry foul at the drop of the hat.

Yes they most definitely do. In fact, this is exactly how I would describe the PvP subforum to anyone to asked.

dude you really are a tool you can look at my list of complaints since release and see nothing till last week things have been bad before but not this bad if your happy go play and kitten what are you doing here.

DrMatt.9408:

Sometimes you have to be harsh to make people listen. ANET have been persistently ignoring community requests/suggestions regarding the direction of game development in pvp and wvw for several years now. Their hubris is truly staggering and worthy of a Greek tragedy. Their nemesis in the form of multiple new mmo releases is also rapidly approaching. What a shame.

Anet have been persistently telling the community that we should communicate properly: constructive, well-explained and highly specific feedback is what devs seek from us, so that they may easily implement a solution to the specific problem. Being nice instead of sardonic will also help your cause. Venting or threatening them to leave the game in the forums will not.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Balance is a subjective term, and it depends on who you ask. For us warriors, 2014 was they year you can include thieves as well.

And also you should get mad at people who are disappointed in the system. In 2012/2014, you would have been this guy.

Honestly, I would have pointed (as many people did) why my profession was underperforming instead of simply saying balance is bad in the pvp forums. As sad as it is to admit, there will never be “true” balance. But as I’ve said good feedback (and being specific about your issues, giving examples, etc.) will allow the devs to properly change the stuff that’s truly not working.

Teutos.8620:

Salamander.2504:

Azukas.1426:

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing.

There is a vocal minority of displeased people (happy folks don’t feel the need to post), so I don’t think these threads are representative at all.

Well, only a minority is vocal but it is a logical fallacy if you think that mean, that the minority is pleased.

My comment doesn’t really say anything about whether the majority/minority is pleased or not. All I’m saying is that you can’t gauge how well a company is doing by these types of threads because your sample is biased towards dissatisfied customers. Don’t read into it.

cosmicegg.8502:

Salamander.2504:

Azukas.1426:

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing.

There is a vocal minority of displeased people (happy folks don’t feel the need to post), so I don’t think these threads are representative at all.

Azukas.1426:

Most players don’t run to the forums and cry foul at the drop of the hat.

Yes they most definitely do. In fact, this is exactly how I would describe the PvP subforum to anyone to asked.

dude you really are a tool you can look at my list of complaints since release and see nothing till last week things have been bad before but not this bad if your happy go play and kitten what are you doing here.

You got me. I shouldn’t post in these forums since I’m “happy”. Teutos are you copying this?

Salamander.2504:

Azukas.1426:

I feel that threads like this are a direct indication of how well a company is doing.

There is a vocal minority of displeased people (happy folks don’t feel the need to post), so I don’t think these threads are representative at all.

Azukas.1426:

Most players don’t run to the forums and cry foul at the drop of the hat.

Yes they most definitely do. In fact, this is exactly how I would describe the PvP subforum to anyone to asked.

Countless infractions, bans, and censorship have taken place on this forum to keep it a viewable pleasure for the dev team.

The fact that the population in the game is a shadow of it’s former self along with the increase in negative posts really tells the tale.

Thanks for the reply though

Salamander.2504:

You got me. I shouldn’t post in these forums since I’m “happy”. Teutos are you copying this?

Personally, I am also trying to post in different threads where people are just complaining only to add a bit from the ‘other side of a coin’ (not sure how a native speaker would phrase that, sorry)

Hammerguard.9834:

Okay, I think I’m getting good at this game now.

When you launch your game and one of the biggest streamers pulls in thousands upon thousands of viewers putting your game on the top of twitch’s viewer count, you permanently ban his account for taking advantage of developers mistakes. Literally using him to set an example.

Assuming we are talking about the same guy…

They unbanned him, but he left anyways shortly after. Kripp plays games on another level and GW2’s endgame and build system isn’t enough for a guy who was like #1 in a Path of Exile league.

But yeah, that was bullkitten. He just bought karma items. That’s it. Arenanet claimed he should have known they were too cheap.

0.o

Path of Exile guys put him in the credits thanking him for all the players he brought to that game. Now, that shouldn’t amount to special treatment, but maybe, he shouldn’t be the one guy you perma ban just because he did on stream whatyou are temp banning like a 1000 other people for what is already a pretty shameful reason.

Uete.3805:

Honestly, I would have pointed (as many people did) why my profession was underperforming instead of simply saying balance is bad in the pvp forums. As sad as it is to admit, there will never be “true” balance. But as I’ve said good feedback (and being specific about your issues, giving examples, etc.) will allow the devs to properly change the stuff that’s truly not working.

We did for months – and ask yourself: does the customer really have to beg to be able to play a game – cause that is what we’re doing.

ETA: In case you didn’t get my point: Taking all balance out of forums and what players have to say is wrong period! If it already is at that point where a game company is unable to balance their own game (minus minor tweaks) without the help of players, then they kittened up big time.

Salamander.2504:

You got me. I shouldn’t post in these forums since I’m “happy”. Teutos are you copying this?
Wow dude you’ve got 12 pages of posts your awesome troll royalty present.

I’ll chime in. Build the majority of your last expansion with the motivation of stimulating your gem to gold market and not player fun.

It’s actually pretty brillaint. You build this “self-balancing” system of converting one imaginary currency to another imaginary currency for purchasing different sets of imaginary items. The difference is one is purchasable with real money.

So, if the scale shifts too far to the left, you don’t really lose out. Players are just spending less imaginary currency for another imaginary currency. But if it shifts to the right…people are potentially spending more real money for the same units of imaginary currency. And when this happens, nobody complains. There isn’t a single thread about it. Price shift is caused by the system, not done explicitly by Anet.

Then you create an expansion with a ton of gold sinks and tell everyone it’s for their benefit so you have long term goals, despite the fact that there is probably 10 different ways to implement long term goals without using an absurd amount of currency that can be short cutted by throwing real money at it.

Finally, you throw it to the wild, prices in the gem to gold market raise by 30% in the first week, nobody complaints and you profit from all your hamsters running a grind wheel.

It’s not even really the legendaries; it’s the guild halls. I wonder how many people opened up their wallets to try and get their family oriented guild cool new features to use. Doing something for the benefit of a group of people you belong to is a powerful motivation.

vana.5467:

Deniara Devious.3948:

The June 23 trait rework patch + HoT expansion completely wrecked the balance and lead to massive power creep.

I would pay to be able to play a pre-June 2015 version of the game again. I would pay more for a 2014 version.

I would do the same, just for the sake of WvWvW. The introduction of the Desert borderlands + all those gimmicks (banners, air strike etc) is just plain horrible and makes it much less fun to play. Each week they don’t give us the Alpine borderland back bleeds more players. The WvWvW population dropped significantly after HoT launch and never recovered. Luckily I play on one of top EU servers, so our server is still getting transfers from other servers. I can imagine what a ghost town the game is on lower tiers.

But it is not all doom and gloom. I find the old Tyria maps are more fun to play with the introduction of gliding. The HoT specs make soloing the content such a breeze = easy mode. Now if they would just give better rewards from map completion + dungeons. I never cared for the HoT maps, just not my style. In fact I haven’t done a full map completion on any HoT map and I did the HoT story just once, but I have done the original personal story + 100% Tyria map completion multiple times.

But no matter what is the game mode, Arenanet really needs to have better communication. They should daily reply and comment these threads and tell us what is the direction they are going to take this game. I also don’t understand why we don’t have proper open test servers. The only way to really test balance is to test play it a lot. I am sure many would volunteer to try out new shinies or cool changes.

Uete.3805:

Anet have been persistently telling the community that we should communicate properly: constructive, well-explained and highly specific feedback is what devs seek from us, so that they may easily implement a solution to the specific problem. Being nice instead of sardonic will also help your cause. Venting or threatening them to leave the game in the forums will not.

During HoT Beta, the whole ele community pretty much gave constructive, well-explained and highly specific feedback and it was never responded to and none of the changes resembled the majority of it.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Balance is a subjective term

0.o

It’s a game where the varying differences between the established classes are mathematical variance in a system of numbers, not a system of feelings.

It’s completely objective. It’s just pragmatically “true” balance can’t be achieved, because the systems become more complex than what developers can handle, begin with fundamentally broken mechanics born from just human error, developers refuse to change things out of pride, developers quit and new developers begin making changes without a full understanding of the system as a whole or developers make changes based off “fealing” and “intuition” rather than data.

The only feeling that comes into play is how much imbalance we are pragmatically willing to accept as consumers. I think there is a reasonable standard that exists based on past performance in other RPGs, ARPGs and MMORPGs and GW2 misses that mark pretty hard.

The other of “feeling” is people just being wrong and make statements based off perception and emotion and not data, which is a human problem that exists in pretty much anything that involves two humans opening their mouths to exchange information.