Guild Wars 2

….with a hgh engi spamming them.

Then lets see if they actually nerf engi (they aren’t even – hardly – in the leaked patch notes). Also it takes little skill to become “ok” with hgh engi. Easiest build in the game to become ok at for sure. And yet the most powerful too.

The reason playing a necro vs an engi is dumb is because:
1, Damaging people when they are downed is key in this game – you can’t win if they always res
2, The necro has nothing spammable for such situation, and especially no viable aoe poison
3, The engi can do wayyy more on downed players – making it impossible to res

So the solution is either reduce engi ability to spam (grenades) on downed players. OR buff the necros. Obviously buffing to this level would be power creep, so there is only 1 solution.

#nerfhghengi

I haven’t seen many people running hgh build on engineers for quite a while now. Yes grenade kit is almost always used, but hgh no not really, anymore.

well bomb the downed player?

HGH engis are rare these days, and a necro should be eating them alive regardless.

zone.1073:

I haven’t seen many people running hgh build on engineers for quite a while now. Yes grenade kit is almost always used, but hgh no not really, anymore.

Knockback build is popular too. I would probably want both

So people want this nerfed along with thief’s LS.

Alright then.

Arganthium.5638:

So people want this nerfed along with thief’s LS.

Alright then.

People want two over-used cake-walk builds toned down and it’s a big deal? XD There’s a lot of adjustments the game could use.

ITT: Nobody can find the Engie tossing nades, nerf please.

Wasn’t there an across the board AoE nerf mentioned in a SoTG about 3-5 months ago? Wouldn’t that cover the main issue people are having with the use of the nade kit?

As in; while it isn’t necessarily that it is too strong in a skirmish situation, on point in team fights, it can be absolutely devastating because of the 3 Rs it accomplishes:
Rapid Output
Repeatable (not really long cooldowns)
Radius

Granted I’m not calling it OP or anything, it would just be hard to deny how powerful of a tool it can be, and how instrumental it can be (almost apex predator/pigeonhole effectiveness) in team fights.

Lordrosicky.5813:

2, The necro has nothing spammable for such situation, and especially no viable aoe poison

Wells may be getting reduced CD’s, and power d/d is pretty spammable and hits hard. Unless you were talking about a ranged option, in which case Wells may be getting reduced CD’s.

Not saying I don’t agree with you, just saying we somewhat have an option. And then there’s fears we can use to get people off the person being res’d.

And then there’s that 10% projectile speed coming to staff maybe. Eh? Eh?

But seriously.. Buff necro’s.

devs can actually pull that off somehow, they won against “pros” and only lost the following match because they had warrior who couldnt do anything instead a guardian

class X is stronger in situation Y, nerf it please

just have one person attack the frigging engi instead of going all to res (and get kitten d by cleave damage), problem solved -.-

LOL if you think HGH is bad, wait till you get shattered while trying to ress :|

@op the problem is not the hgh ingi than the problem is you and your team

just dont stay all on one point and eat the grenades – simple
attack the hgh ingi first and he run for his life, he have only elixier s (makes him 3 sek imun) and nothing more

and you are necro ey? coruptboon him – he should have a lot boons most of the time

when you rly talk bout a TEAMfight than dont go all and rez – one is enough and the others kill the ingi (maby reflect wall from guardian? moa him? make the thief go stickie on ingi and he will delete the ingi after 10 matches)

but i bet you was solo on a node rezzing someone and thought with your imba minionmasterthing you outtank everything ey?

Yep the Grenade-Damage is crazy. Why ppl stopped playing HGH? Because S/D.
However, AoE in this game is since the release a problem. The devs allrdy stated some months ago its on their list. Seems like it is magically dissappeared.

As a ranger I cannot stop someone from ressing a teammate, unless their bad. My BM build with my insanely strong huge dps pets, can not outdamage the heal or damage the person trying to do the heal enough to stop them, focus’d or not with my bow or sword.

Now I can stop them for a second or 2 with fear or a stun, and maybe a knockback. However if some class thats tanky wants to heal someone I can not stop them unless I can flag plant them which well with a downed player who can prevent me from stomping once and another class that may have 2-3 ways of preventing me, thats more then enough time to res someone.

Not sure what I’m getting at other then Engi’s don’t have my issue.

DevO.9854:

As a ranger I cannot stop someone from ressing a teammate, unless their bad. My BM build with my insanely strong huge dps pets, can not outdamage the heal or damage the person trying to do the heal enough to stop them, focus’d or not with my bow or sword.

Now I can stop them for a second or 2 with fear or a stun, and maybe a knockback. However if some class thats tanky wants to heal someone I can not stop them unless I can flag plant them which well with a downed player who can prevent me from stomping once and another class that may have 2-3 ways of preventing me, thats more then enough time to res someone.

Not sure what I’m getting at other then Engi’s don’t have my issue.

And you don’t have the trouble that HGH engineers do with staying alive. If you truly believe that the engi has too much damage and sacrifices nothing for such a blatantly overpowered amount of AoE damage then I would seriously suggest you play the class for a while. HGH has NO CC, very few defensive mechanisms and little room for error in high level play. Combine that with serious weakness to boon-hate and the length it takes to get and maintain 25 stacks of might and there’s some serious issues with playing that build against players smarter than your average hotjoiner.

And to the above poster, people quit playing HGH because it’s a bad team build post-nerf with too many hard counters, not because of s/d. HGH’s day is done, there isn’t a kitten soul who plays it anymore that I think of as an excellent, high level engi for very good reason. The healing turret buff made multiple builds viable and people found out that if you focus the engi he’ll die. The dying too quick problem still remains in other builds, the engi gets focused and he dies, but most other builds have far more team support and CC than HGH could ever dream of.

A god kitten thief with a shortbow has more cleave than an HGH engi for the love of god. Why do you consistently maintain that a dead build is overpowered? Everyone under the sun knows that condi necros don’t cleave for kitten. Sure, they can destroy EVERYTHING if they get a little support and hit one magic utility on the downed body, but if you haven’t figured that out yet then there is no hope for you. Everyone knows that certain classes cleave and certain classes stomp and certain classes have a hard time doing either. The best way to counter serious amounts of cleave is to not have someone go down before the class with serious amounts of cleave is pressured. If you have pressure on a mesmer, thief, condi engi or anything else they’re going to have a seriously difficult time cleaving. If they’re up free-casting then you better be god kitten ed sure you have more than 1 person rezzing because otherwise you’re best off cutting your losses and running. Sometimes it’s best not to rez the downed thief getting shattered, grenaded and churning earth’d. When to do so and when not to do so is a learning curve and adds to the games difficulty via good decision making.

The small AoE is a necessary punitive measure to avoid making resses far more potent than they already are. Simply put, you friend just need to l2p or reroll till the necros see some buffs.

yeah again I’m not really getting at anything other then what my ranger can’t do, Not even saying I think its overpowered or anything.

No where in there did I say Engi’s are too strong or anything related to that, if anything I’d say Res healing is maybe too fast Or that rangers need more damage output.

Its clearly not a l2p issue because you didn’t even state that I could do what I’m saying I can’t.

I’d prefer Signet ressing like they had in gw1 that would save a lot of this.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Yep the Grenade-Damage is crazy. Why ppl stopped playing HGH? Because S/D.

I know people like to believe that HGH popularity has diminished, because of S/D thieves stealing their might. It’s a load of rubbish, don’t believe it. S/D thieves were not constantly taking Engineer’s might stacks and just one shot-ing everything (most of the time you wouldn’t even get their might stacks).

Reality is that HGH was and is a much more specialized build than the “node-defender”. HGH is considerably weaker in 1v1 (I know people still think this is a team game, but the smarter ones out there might have started to understand how 1v1 on side points tip the scale) and HGH can not defend itself as well when assaulted.

That feeling of pretty much being helpless and relying on your team mates to peel for you in an excessive manner, started to drive individual engineers away from the HGH build, which had the effect that other engineers just blindly followed the “old made new” engineer trend.

As far as thieves go, I am seeing fewer and fewer teams employing one these days, S/D or otherwise.

DevO.9854:

I’d prefer Signet ressing like they had in gw1 that would save a lot of this.

They do have this and it is very prevalent. The problem is that a lot of rez signets on a lot of classes are simply lackluster.

Ironically enough, the necromancer’s is probably the best one right now but no one runs necros because they’re pretty bad, so illusion of life takes the prize

Med.6150:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Yep the Grenade-Damage is crazy. Why ppl stopped playing HGH? Because S/D.

I know people like to believe that HGH popularity has diminished, because of S/D thieves stealing their might. It’s a load of rubbish, don’t believe it. S/D thieves were not constantly taking Engineer’s might stacks and just one shot-ing everything (most of the time you wouldn’t even get their might stacks).

Reality is that HGH was and is a much more specialized build than the “node-defender”. HGH is considerably weaker in 1v1 (I know people still think this is a team game, but the smarter ones out there might have started to understand how 1v1 on side points tip the scale) and HGH can not defend itself as well when assaulted.

That feeling of pretty much being helpless and relying on your team mates to peel for you in an excessive manner, started to drive individual engineers away from the HGH build, which had the effect that other engineers just blindly followed the “old made new” engineer trend.

As far as thieves go, I am seeing fewer and fewer teams employing one these days, S/D or otherwise.

As far as I heard, S/D gets a debuff (if the patch-notes are true). I think a big point for the dissappearing HGH-Build is that Teldo showed us how efficient a Kit-Engineer can be, though ppl tried on their own and realized it. And the influence of these players is definitely higher than ppl think.

Ostricheggs.3742:

DevO.9854:

I’d prefer Signet ressing like they had in gw1 that would save a lot of this.

They do have this and it is very prevalent. The problem is that a lot of rez signets on a lot of classes are simply lackluster.

Ironically enough, the necromancer’s is probably the best one right now but no one runs necros because they’re pretty bad, so illusion of life takes the prize

Illusion of Life is much better than the Necromancer rezz really:

- Shorter cast time
- Shorter cool down
- Ignores poison – (god knows why)
- Everybody in the target area becomes invulnerable for 1 second, whether they are down, up and kicking or rezzed (4s invul in this case) – (once again this is a divine mystery, because it doesn’t make any sense)

Med.6150:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Yep the Grenade-Damage is crazy. Why ppl stopped playing HGH? Because S/D.

I know people like to believe that HGH popularity has diminished, because of S/D thieves stealing their might. It’s a load of rubbish, don’t believe it. S/D thieves were not constantly taking Engineer’s might stacks and just one shot-ing everything (most of the time you wouldn’t even get their might stacks).

Reality is that HGH was and is a much more specialized build than the “node-defender”. HGH is considerably weaker in 1v1 (I know people still think this is a team game, but the smarter ones out there might have started to understand how 1v1 on side points tip the scale) and HGH can not defend itself as well when assaulted.

That feeling of pretty much being helpless and relying on your team mates to peel for you in an excessive manner, started to drive individual engineers away from the HGH build, which had the effect that other engineers just blindly followed the “old made new” engineer trend.

As far as thieves go, I am seeing fewer and fewer teams employing one these days, S/D or otherwise.

This. The problem is further worsened when peels actually don’t help to keep the engineer alive. If an HGH engi gets trained or pushes up to actually be able to deal any sort of half decent damage he’s pretty much dead. No escape mechanisms, not nothing, just two dodge rolls, one stunbreak and a kittenload of damage.

They are the weak point in a team fight. They can’t deal adequate damage when focused. They don’t have CC. They can’t peel for teammates outside of killing things (a relatively lengthy endeavor with conditions depending on the scale of the fight).

Why would I put my own team at a disadvantage by running such a build when I could drop a bit of damage and pick up CC, team support and utility? Why the hell are people not QQing about THAT instead of the condi equivalent to a d/p thief?

Med.6150:

Ostricheggs.3742:

DevO.9854:

I’d prefer Signet ressing like they had in gw1 that would save a lot of this.

They do have this and it is very prevalent. The problem is that a lot of rez signets on a lot of classes are simply lackluster.

Ironically enough, the necromancer’s is probably the best one right now but no one runs necros because they’re pretty bad, so illusion of life takes the prize

Illusion of Life is much better than the Necromancer rezz really:

- Shorter cast time
- Shorter cool down
- Ignores poison – (god knows why)
- Everybody in the target area becomes invulnerable for 1 second, whether they are down, up and kicking or rezzed (4s invul in this case) – (once again this is a divine mystery, because it doesn’t make any sense)

an illusion is still an illusion. Bunker guards cant stay on point, melee classes can’t go ham in melee and in the chaos of the fight teammates either get trained or simply aren’t able to rez you. The dynamic of the fight changes drastically with illusion in comparison to rez sig. IOL is very useful for those occasions where there is another player downed on the enemy team, but in general I’d prefer havign a full rally versus an illusion.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Med.6150:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Yep the Grenade-Damage is crazy. Why ppl stopped playing HGH? Because S/D.

I know people like to believe that HGH popularity has diminished, because of S/D thieves stealing their might. It’s a load of rubbish, don’t believe it. S/D thieves were not constantly taking Engineer’s might stacks and just one shot-ing everything (most of the time you wouldn’t even get their might stacks).

Reality is that HGH was and is a much more specialized build than the “node-defender”. HGH is considerably weaker in 1v1 (I know people still think this is a team game, but the smarter ones out there might have started to understand how 1v1 on side points tip the scale) and HGH can not defend itself as well when assaulted.

That feeling of pretty much being helpless and relying on your team mates to peel for you in an excessive manner, started to drive individual engineers away from the HGH build, which had the effect that other engineers just blindly followed the “old made new” engineer trend.

As far as thieves go, I am seeing fewer and fewer teams employing one these days, S/D or otherwise.

This. The problem is further worsened when peels actually don’t help to keep the engineer alive. If an HGH engi gets trained or pushes up to actually be able to deal any sort of half decent damage he’s pretty much dead. No escape mechanisms, not nothing, just two dodge rolls, one stunbreak and a kittenload of damage.

They are the weak point in a team fight. They can’t deal adequate damage when focused. They don’t have CC. They can’t peel for teammates outside of killing things (a relatively lengthy endeavor with conditions depending on the scale of the fight).

Why would I put my own team at a disadvantage by running such a build when I could drop a bit of damage and pick up CC, team support and utility? Why the hell are people not QQing about THAT instead of the condi equivalent to a d/p thief?

For keeping the HGH alive you have a guard, you have the rezz-elixier and you have IoL. The Kit-Engineer can fill more roles and is in most situations definitely the better choice, I totally agree with you. However, this relies always on strats and team-comps.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

As far as I heard, S/D gets a debuff (if the patch-notes are true). I think a big point for the dissappearing HGH-Build is that Teldo showed us how efficient a Kit-Engineer can be, though ppl tried on their own and realized it. And the influence of these players is definitely higher than ppl think.

It is and I touched upon that in my post. People follow the trend setters. Nevermind the fact that this “Kit-Engineer” was no new invention or the fact that there was a very specific reason behind the switch to that build.

People also tend to greatly overestimate the impact of builds. As long as you don’t majorly screw up in making your build, it’s far less of a decisive factor for a winning team than many other things.

However, due to the very nature of this game’s pvp, most people can not gauge their own, let alone the performance of a team mate in terms of effective value leading to victory or defeat.

In all my years gaming I have never seen this much uncertainty before so that it comes as no surprise that we see people copying builds from others who are “more successful” as much as we do, as that’s the only measurement that is tangible. Often times these very builds are not optimal, yet they are still copied and trusted blindly.

Dear OP, you play necro?… which is one of the hardest classes for a condition engineer to beat (not just HGH, but all condition builds). Honestly Plague Sig + Fear = dead engi. It is that easy. Condition orientated necro’s shouldn’t actually have any trouble.

Wall of reflection ^^

Look, the problem isn’t just engineers. It is eles and shatters too. When combined the level of AoE is just insane. I think AoE should be toned down significantly like they said to promote more interesting and skill based combat.

What happened to this AoE nerf? I dunno…

It’s on their imaginary list in their head, gone with a real reward-system a proper soloQ and a visible-working leaderboard. #E-Sports#

Lordrosicky.5813:

Look, the problem isn’t just engineers. It is eles and shatters too. When combined the level of AoE is just insane. I think AoE should be toned down significantly like they said to promote more interesting and skill based combat.

What happened to this AoE nerf? I dunno…

Amen.

AoE should have a drop off. The first target should take the full damage and any target on top of that should receive 20% less damage per every target past the first one (5th target takes a total of 20%). There are other possibilities, but this would ensure that AoE abilities still did the same damage they always did to a single target.

Neva had any problem vs hengi ..since i play necro fear build they tend to die pretty quickly…maybe vs the bunker hengi with that kitten trait invuln to condi sometimes i lose , rest is easy .Finger crossed for the next patch.

Med.6150:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Look, the problem isn’t just engineers. It is eles and shatters too. When combined the level of AoE is just insane. I think AoE should be toned down significantly like they said to promote more interesting and skill based combat.

What happened to this AoE nerf? I dunno…

Amen.

AoE should have a drop off. The first target should take the full damage and any target on top of that should receive 20% less damage per every target past the first one (5th target takes a total of 20%). There are other possibilities, but this would ensure that AoE abilities still did the same damage they always did to a single target.

This would be a good solution.
Though I think there should be a map-design rework in terms of the mid-points. The best example of this is the map LoF. In legacy AoE tends to have not that much influence on a teamfight. It is more about the positioning of the team. If ppl have enough space to move freely around, AoE is fine and meanwhile creates a more dynamic teamfight rather than a firework on a tiny-spot.
Not sure if I’m the only one who has the opinion that some nodes, especially the mid-point of Forest, are a complete design-fail.

You’re not alone in that, though AoE still punishes classes that have to go right up into the target’s face much more, so that simple redesign of nodes, won’t cut it.

Lordrosicky.5813:

….with a hgh engi spamming them.

Then lets see if they actually nerf engi (they aren’t even – hardly – in the leaked patch notes). Also it takes little skill to become “ok” with hgh engi. Easiest build in the game to become ok at for sure. And yet the most powerful too.

The reason playing a necro vs an engi is dumb is because:
1, Damaging people when they are downed is key in this game – you can’t win if they always res
2, The necro has nothing spammable for such situation, and especially no viable aoe poison
3, The engi can do wayyy more on downed players – making it impossible to res

So the solution is either reduce engi ability to spam (grenades) on downed players. OR buff the necros. Obviously buffing to this level would be power creep, so there is only 1 solution.

#nerfhghengi

Try rezzing against 100B / thief focus fire / ele SD aoe bursting / Mesm mind wrack + blurred frenzy

honestly any serious power spec is stronger for downed dps than engi

The only reason engi downed dps is good is because engi has reliable ranged poison and all his downed dps is ranged as well

Arguing that necro NEEDS to be able to downed dps is ridicolous. It`s the same logic by which every class should be able to play every spec. Some classes are intended to do kitten and others are not its simple as that. (Hi Bunker guardian)

Hint: grenades base attack deals around 200 dmg check that imba corpse burst!

Edit: And btw if the patchnotes are correct they`re removing the stunbreaker from elixir S which will leave us with 0 stunbreakers on legit skills. Dis gon B gud.

Good for them, I never understood why a person could res someone faster than a person trying to dps down the enemy.

luxen.8376:

Wall of reflection ^^

^

but really, it boils down to: why I haz to run counter skillz, nerf the enemy instead!

Shar.3402:

luxen.8376:

Wall of reflection ^^

^

but really, it boils down to: why I haz to run counter skillz, nerf the enemy instead!

I agree! Why the kitten do i have to run a stun breaker as an engineer just so i can counter D/D thieves killing me thru basi venom!

Why do i have to run condi cleanse just so i can remove the 1 immobilize before the shatter blurred frenzy combo so if i miss my dodge i dont die instantly.

Why cant i attack necros with plague signet + dagger offhand + scythe without knowing that i will get hard countered.

LIFE’SSSSSS SOOOOO FUUUUCKIIING UNFAAAAAIRREEEE

i havent had an issue with HGH engineers in particular when trying to revive… its my high berserker gear/berserker amulet that makes it hard to revive. im basically trading personal survival for reviving, but if theyre all already on cooldowns i can do nothing but watch how much downed teammate gates “explodered” into the ground.
ofcourse, if im completely out of skills to use i just screwed up somewhere.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

Down the engi first maybe?

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