Guild Wars 2

I feel like I’m beating a dead horse now but why would you consider this patch a failure? Actually, I have a better question: What would you have liked to have seen in the patch?

Ill tell you what I don’t like. Basicly every tanky option for an Amulet removed the same patch thieves turned into gods.

Also, Unhindered Combatant nerf. (ICD on condi clear)

I thought the point of a balance patch was to improve balance, not to break broken necro garbage even further.

Unhindered combatant already has a cD it’s called needing Energy to use it, also with the amount of Soft cc like chill, cripple, immob flying around its actually balanced, but if you want it to have a icd then give us sustain to actually stay and fight on point in the cc/AoE spam fest. Or is balance not what you want?

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Unhindered combatant already has a cD it’s called needing Energy to use it, also with the amount of Soft cc like chill, cripple, immob flying around its actually balanced, but if you want it to have a icd then give us sustain to actually stay and fight on point in the cc/AoE spam fest. Or is balance not what you want?

thief does have the sustain if they stopped running berserker gear for once
and learned to actually play the class instead of spamming their highest damage cooldownless skill nonstop

why is it ok for all classes to melt if they run glass cannon but its clearly a problem and thief is underpowered if they do it ? thats what bothers me bout thief players

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Unhindered combatant already has a cD it’s called needing Energy to use it, also with the amount of Soft cc like chill, cripple, immob flying around its actually balanced, but if you want it to have a icd then give us sustain to actually stay and fight on point in the cc/AoE spam fest. Or is balance not what you want?

The point behind thieves has been crazy high single-target dmg, Mobility and Engage/Dis-engage. Paring that with self sustain in teamfights and you’ll have … well Pre patch revs.
Theres literally no way of contesting thieves as a Necro atm. Escapist’s Absolution combined with Unhindered Combatant makes them unstoppable.
I do agree that Necros are incredibly overpowered atm, I’m not debating that. Thieves weren’t trash-tier Season 1, they just couldn’t contest the amount of bunkers played.

With all the bunker builds removed and basicly nerfed into the ground (except for maybe Druid) and thief recieving the buff they have, they’re once again a definate spot in the meta.
I’m not saying I want any class to be complete kitten (kinda like warriors are) I’m saying that I don’t want pvp to be Rock – Paper – Scissors as it used to be way back when.
I don’t see how adding an ICD on the condi cleanse would render this god-mode trait unusable.

Loop.8106:

Ill tell you what I don’t like. Basicly every tanky option for an Amulet removed the same patch thieves turned into gods.

Also, Unhindered Combatant nerf. (ICD on condi clear)

A chilled thief is a dead thief. We rely on mobility and chill would just be a hard counter to us. That’s not balance. Dash is balanced. Necros chill us so we waste a dodge which means they can get a few hits on us. Cuz after all, thief is still as tough as wet paper.

Shovel Face.4512:

Loop.8106:

Ill tell you what I don’t like. Basicly every tanky option for an Amulet removed the same patch thieves turned into gods.

Also, Unhindered Combatant nerf. (ICD on condi clear)

A chilled thief is a dead thief. We rely on mobility and chill would just be a hard counter to us. That’s not balance. Dash is balanced. Necros chill us so we waste a dodge which means they can get a few hits on us. Cuz after all, thief is still as tough as wet paper.

Doesn’t change the fact that Thieves hard counter pretty much every single class atm except for Druids and Dragonhunters.
A 3-5 sec ICD on Chill clear would not be pushing it.
Also, remember that the counter to dodges are Immobs, which .. well is not a thing anymore. They’re unstoppable 1v1 unless your one of the two classes mentioned above.

It has a built in cd already, in the form of Energy, thief game play is all about resource management, energy and Initiative are thieves resources, both have to be use offensively or defensively. Now with the amount of Soft CC being thrown around makes this Trait in line with the current Meta. Now of soft cc was not all that prevalent yes it would be Op but as the case stands it is not. Every class has Passives that keep their class afloat, thieves have almost none, this is an active trait not a passive one, the thief has to decide to use a dodge that could be saved for avoiding a burst or used to get away.

And then there is the glaring bug that this trait does to thieves if a thief tries to use a Shadowstep i.e. From shadow step or Infiltraitor Arrow they are rooted in place without having moved at all until they dodge again.

You say thieves weren’t trash tier but you never experienced the blatant harassment thrown at thieves in every match, by their own team I have had people ask before a Match even starts due to me not rerolling on another character, now a skilled thief could still do well in season 1 yes but that was relying on knowing the class and out playing any opposition. Thieves were trash due to the amount of sustain every other class had as well as all of the AoE/cleave spam mixed with the CC. A good Necro can keep perma chill on almost any class, even thieves with this trait because a thief won’t dodge just to cleanse your chill. They have more important things to save those dodges for especially if trying to fight over a point.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

A good Necro can keep perma chill on almost any class.

Im pretty sure you didn’t read my previous comments. It doesn’t matter how good the Necromancer is. They only have so many sources of Chill. Either you spread them out (3.5 sec on staff 3, 3 sec from trait, 3.5(?) from fears. Executioners Scythe, assuming that kittenty spell actually hits.)

Necros can keep perma chill on about a grand total of 3.5 classes.
Warriors
Revenants (Assuming he doesn’t use Riposting Shadows.)
Necromancers (Assuming he doesnt Plague Signet it back, consumes condition.)
Guardian, kinda.

But please, by all means. Prove me wrong.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You say thieves weren’t trash tier but you never experienced the blatant harassment thrown at thieves in every match, by their own team I have had people ask before a Match even starts due to me not rerolling on another character, now a skilled thief could still do well in season 1 yes but that was relying on knowing the class and out playing any opposition.

pretty much this bit says it all average thief players are nothing more than bandwagoners running cheesebuilds that required no skill and you guys rather have everyone else penalized than actually get good.

It’s the laziest balance I have seen. They took what they assume was a problem, gutted it to oblivion, shaved a couple of things out of the way who didn’t need it, applied band aids like fix to few irrelevant things while over buffing what they wanted to shine.
May I add that while they gutted down some things, they clearly didn’t see the need of fixing what was dependant on said gutted things, nerfign it twice harder (alacrity anyone?)
Oh and the fact that for one of the four balance patch we’ll get this year, the change made to classes are abysmal?

Loop.8106:

Shovel Face.4512:

Loop.8106:

Ill tell you what I don’t like. Basicly every tanky option for an Amulet removed the same patch thieves turned into gods.

Also, Unhindered Combatant nerf. (ICD on condi clear)

A chilled thief is a dead thief. We rely on mobility and chill would just be a hard counter to us. That’s not balance. Dash is balanced. Necros chill us so we waste a dodge which means they can get a few hits on us. Cuz after all, thief is still as tough as wet paper.

Doesn’t change the fact that Thieves hard counter pretty much every single class atm except for Druids and Dragonhunters.
A 3-5 sec ICD on Chill clear would not be pushing it.
Also, remember that the counter to dodges are Immobs, which .. well is not a thing anymore. They’re unstoppable 1v1 unless your one of the two classes mentioned above.

Or Revenant or Scrapper. Thieves don’t hard counter pretty much any class, you are just upset that they can disengage from your Necro chill spam , it sounds like. Let’s see between having to dodge attacks and dodge to clear soft cc energy regenerates at 5%-8.75% a second which equates to 2.5- 4.375 energy a second to a max of 50 energy which would mean between 20 secs or 11.32 secs to reach 50 energy outside of blowing any utilities or heals to get more energy faster, and this is under the assumptions all thieves run UC because right now it’s a toss up between UC for better survivability and BD for higher burst.

Rezzet.3614:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

You say thieves weren’t trash tier but you never experienced the blatant harassment thrown at thieves in every match, by their own team I have had people ask before a Match even starts due to me not rerolling on another character, now a skilled thief could still do well in season 1 yes but that was relying on knowing the class and out playing any opposition.

pretty much this bit says it all average thief players are nothing more than bandwagoners running cheesebuilds that required no skill and you guys rather have everyone else penalized than actually get good.

Sorry I have been a Thief main since launch, sorry no bandwagon here.

Shovel Face.4512:

Actually, I have a better question: What would you have liked to have seen in the patch?

Every profession nerfed except the one I play now.. If I change profession I want that one buffed and other one nerfed..

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or Revenant or Scrapper. Thieves don’t hard counter pretty much any class, you are just upset that they can disengage from your Necro chill spam , it sounds like. .

Thieves doesn’t counter Revenants? Okay sure.
I’m not upset they can disengage from Necro’s chill. I’m upset they nullify the class.

Loop.8106:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or Revenant or Scrapper. Thieves don’t hard counter pretty much any class, you are just upset that they can disengage from your Necro chill spam , it sounds like. .

Thieves doesn’t counter Revenants? Okay sure.
I’m not upset they can disengage from Necro’s chill. I’m upset they nullify the class.

How do they nullify the class? Explain that.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Loop.8106:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or Revenant or Scrapper. Thieves don’t hard counter pretty much any class, you are just upset that they can disengage from your Necro chill spam , it sounds like. .

Thieves doesn’t counter Revenants? Okay sure.
I’m not upset they can disengage from Necro’s chill. I’m upset they nullify the class.

How do they nullify the class? Explain that.

This requires you to understand what part a necro plays in a team.
Necro’s are played as side-point contester aswell as small skirmishes. In teamfights they will just get focused down due to an extreme lack of damage mitigation.
This transends into our previous statements how thieves completly destroys Necros.

Loop.8106:

Ill tell you what I don’t like. Basicly every tanky option for an Amulet removed the same patch thieves turned into gods.

Also, Unhindered Combatant nerf. (ICD on condi clear)

I agree with this. I always play my bunker guardian (my only other character, a bunker elementalist, was played only a few matches) and used the sentinel amulet all the time. I tried the cleric and magi amulets a few times but, neither compared the gain I had with sentinel amulet to my playstyle. Now I have to choose between being a healer with high toughness and low vitality or a healer with high vitality and low toughness because the sentinel amulet was removed. I (and I’m pretty sure that there are others) want to be tank, the old-fashioned kind that can take a lot hits but gets the trade off of low damage, cc etc. . I don’t want to be a healer. I will say that I’ve been playing spvp for 1 1/2 to 2 years and, to be honest, am not as skilled at this game as I should be.

It just seems that the short time that I have been playing sPvP has gone more and more to trying to break that damage per second ceiling, making tanky build fall to the wayside, and leaving the tanky builds with the only option of “I hope to make this opportune block, dodge etc. or i’m dead” . Those are just my thoughts though.

As a side point contender, let’s see now the role of thief is decap and +1. Ok by you logic thief should always be able to decap nomatter what.

Now where does your chill being cleansed in this an issue? Is it because the thief is able to get away from your Condi bomb? Now UC does cause the thief in most cases to Dash off of a point almost every time allowing you to attack from range, which Necro has superior range pressure compared to Thieves.

Now if the Thief is disengaging completely you did your part he ran, if he stays to fight most Necros Condi bomb the point/thief causing them to have to disengage due to measly Condi cleansing as well as puny Health pool. yes you can be outplayed m, no you are not nullified.

Necros can essentially double their Health pool with their shroud to buy themselves time till teammates arrive. Now I am no master of Necro but from what I have seen and the little I have played to learn how the class operates you are not nullified, and if still you feel that way you can corrupt all the swiftness and vigor Thieves give themselves into Cripple and Weakness, I guess you may be upset that Thieves don’t give themselves any consistent Boons to corrupt besides those two, that could be why you feel Thieves Nullify Necro. Joking aside.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

As a side point contender, let’s see now the role of thief is decap and +1. Ok by you logic thief should always be able to decap nomatter what.

Now where does your chill being cleansed in this an issue? Is it because the thief is able to get away from your Condi bomb? Now UC does cause the thief in most cases to Dash off of a point almost every time allowing you to attack from range, which Necro has superior range pressure compared to Thieves.

Now if the Thief is disengaging completely you did your part he ran, if he stays to fight most Necros Condi bomb the point/thief causing them to have to disengage due to measly Condi cleansing as well as puny Health pool. yes you can be outplayed m, no you are not nullified.

Necros can essentially double their Health pool with their shroud to buy themselves time till teammates arrive. Now I am no master of Necro but from what I have seen and the little I have played to learn how the class operates you are not nullified, and if still you feel that way you can corrupt all the swiftness and vigor Thieves give themselves into Cripple and Weakness, I guess you may be upset that Thieves don’t give themselves any consistent Boons to corrupt besides those two, that could be why you feel Thieves Nullify Necro. Joking aside.

You do realise our “Condi bombs” are our marks, right?

And if the Thief stays to engage you he is going to be on point which means on your Marks which means you Condi bombed the Thief……… Revelation

Allow me to quote myself for a moment.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

eyesrutherford.1357:

The nerf it got to alacrity many disagree with yet there’s one way that everything coulda been fixed in the first place.
I’ve said it a dozen times now. But the alacrity change obviously is gonna be an issue.
Yet all that woulda needed to be done “without breaking mesmer yet maintaining a nerf to alacrity” would be to nerf alacrity that is shared with teammates down to 33% and keep the alacrity on self at 66%.
Bam. Now all mesmer builds still work but bunker isn’t as effective.

Let’s blow this post up and hopefully get anet to notice.

I’ve seen this suggestion a thousand times, and I’m tired of it now.

Here’s why it’s bullkitten:
1. Chrono Bunker was strong LARGELY BECAUSE OF THE SELF-ALACRITY, NOT BECAUSE OF THE GROUP ALACRITY. Your change would only affect Chrono in PvE.
2. Chrono Bunker WAS ALREADY CLOSE THE GROUND THANKS TO THE QUICKNESS CHANGES. The most powerful thing it had, was the ability to come into a fight & stomp someone out/res the whole team very rapidly.
Otherwise, there were a few builds in this game that could 1v1 it and win. Namely, any Reaper build in this game…

No, what ANet actually needs to do, is get their hand out of their bum, revert the freaking resistance nerfs to kitten no one would ever seriously run outside of WvW.

ACTUALLY Rework staff & scepter to be viable weapons. Making it so that staff is a hybrid power/condi weapon.

Rework the 3 trash tier off hands mesmer has. Delete the crappy phantasm on torch.

Give us another freaking main-hand weapon. Power OR Condi would be very much appreciated. As both only have 2 “viable” “main hands” (Including 2h weps).

Buff some of our useless utilities, like mirror images. Why is this on a 45 second cooldown, yet decoy (which is stronger) is on a 40 second cooldown?
Why does precog still have a cast time?
Why are the wells cooldowns untouched?
Why are our Chono Traits untouched?
Why is timewarp, despite being severely weakened in most game modes, still on a 180 second cooldown. Despite that Gravity Well, an easily argued stronger elite, is on a 90 second cooldown?
Hey, we just buffed the kitten out of boon corrupt Necro. Can arcane thievery get some mother kittening love?
Can we replace phantasmal defender with something actually useful?
Can we get rid of some of the weird kitten after cast delay on our skills? Seriously, has anyone else noticed that sword 2 has an after cast in which you can’t dodge or do anything initially, unless you cancel the attack slightly early?

Have I made my point yet, are we about done?

Mesmer is one of the clunkiest classes in this bloody game. That takes ridiculous concentration and luck to even accomplish anything on, when compared to other classes that take none of that, and yet hit harder.

And that’s not to say that other classes can’t make similar lists. Holy kitten I know they can.
But that doesn’t hurt my argument. Only help it.
ANet hasn’t actually balanced the game, or brought us any build variety.

All they’ve been doing, has been removing build variety step by step. Shifting the meta to make it look like they’re doing something good. “listening to the community”

are you guys seriously crying about thieves. been op now…………………….. Thieves are not even close to op they take alot of true skill but honest in all they determine the betters of the others classes too when matched up against too, my Necro tends to wreck thieves by the droves but i do know fighting a true theif is not a easy battle and thats how it should be its not like necros are a easy battle either. fact is you guys complain about theif being a escapist and ignore the massive amount of passive play the other classes other than mesmer get to stop cc all types soft and strong to stop conditions with all the cc’s and conditons and instant burst if a theif messes up even once they take a toll like no other class. to be honest the auto sure was a okay buff but what theif really needed to look at was access to buffs and having their off hand and range skills looked at desperately…….because all they did do is make already meta builds dagger pistol/staff besides and with the slight new comer of sword again. A way they could add in traits is remove useless traits to help all classes and these would be like to remove the falling damage trait make that a mastery and make it baseline class effects added. that way they can add in traits.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

As a side point contender, let’s see now the role of thief is decap and +1. Ok by you logic thief should always be able to decap nomatter what.

Now where does your chill being cleansed in this an issue? Is it because the thief is able to get away from your Condi bomb? Now UC does cause the thief in most cases to Dash off of a point almost every time allowing you to attack from range, which Necro has superior range pressure compared to Thieves.

Now if the Thief is disengaging completely you did your part he ran, if he stays to fight most Necros Condi bomb the point/thief causing them to have to disengage due to measly Condi cleansing as well as puny Health pool. yes you can be outplayed m, no you are not nullified.

Necros can essentially double their Health pool with their shroud to buy themselves time till teammates arrive. Now I am no master of Necro but from what I have seen and the little I have played to learn how the class operates you are not nullified, and if still you feel that way you can corrupt all the swiftness and vigor Thieves give themselves into Cripple and Weakness, I guess you may be upset that Thieves don’t give themselves any consistent Boons to corrupt besides those two, that could be why you feel Thieves Nullify Necro. Joking aside.

:) saw this and was like wut???!!necro nullified who ever said that clearly noes nothing about necro.. only thing that did that was the elementalists devouring necros for even considering conditions left right and centre hence diamond skin changes.