Guild Wars 2

SlayerSixx.5763:

The burst heals helps you build CA which helps you heal and aoe daze even more.

You guys are complaining that you get insta downed as a bunker. You’re telling me you can’t insta down a summon the same way?

And what prevents me from Taunting enemy for SoN and using SoN to revive?
What prevents me from having Beastly Warden and AoE heals on F2?

Think outside of a your little box, please.

But enough of this Druid offtop, you can agree or disagree that Druid can be better at supporting allies. It doesn’t change fact that Bunker Guardian has HP issues.

A guardian will almost always die against conditions (engi) unless she has the right support from 1 other player or more, since bunk guards tend to do their best in groups depending on the build.
I used to play bunk religiously and could defend against 3 players depending on their class and build, but I could hold them long enough for backup. I never had problems with zerks especially stun locks it may be a L2P issue which doesn’t make you a bad player but possibly you need to pay more attention to your skills and time management of them- stick to another player if going alone is your issue there is no shame in that – you can hold a point better and keep that player alive longer to support point gain while holding it from other players.

SnowHawk.3615:

A guardian will almost always die against conditions (engi) unless she has the right support from 1 other player or more, since bunk guards tend to do their best in groups depending on the build.
I used to play bunk religiously and could defend against 3 players depending on their class and build, but I could hold them long enough for backup. I never had problems with zerks especially stun locks it may be a L2P issue which doesn’t make you a bad player but possibly you need to pay more attention to your skills and time management of them- stick to another player if going alone is your issue there is no shame in that – you can hold a point better and keep that player alive longer to support point gain.

So, you’re saying that Guardians playing regulary during ESLs got L2P issues with sustaining themselves? Are you serious?

I love how no one points out the fact that there is no “tank” role. If all your build is good for is taking damage, it won’t go far in a competitive environment because the game isn’t designed around stat based tanking. That’s why guardians are considered to be the “tanks” not warriors or even necros (who arguably have much better res support than guardians, which is a bit of a problem in and of itself, but oh well).

One guy a few days ago came up with chrono build that could almost endlessly bunk vs 2 dudes. The reason why you’ll never see that build go anywhere serious is because it doesn’t bring the support that guardian brings.

Tl;Dr bunk=/=facetank.

Morwath.9817:

SnowHawk.3615:

A guardian will almost always die against conditions (engi) unless she has the right support from 1 other player or more, since bunk guards tend to do their best in groups depending on the build.
I used to play bunk religiously and could defend against 3 players depending on their class and build, but I could hold them long enough for backup. I never had problems with zerks especially stun locks it may be a L2P issue which doesn’t make you a bad player but possibly you need to pay more attention to your skills and time management of them- stick to another player if going alone is your issue there is no shame in that – you can hold a point better and keep that player alive longer to support point gain.

So, you’re saying that Guardians playing regulary during ESLs got L2P issues with sustaining themselves? Are you serious?

I could get a random noob with only a few hours to regularly join ESLs. Doesn’t mean much since hours spent=/=skill. You can make a reasonable guess, but you can equate it to actual skill.

Morwath.9817:

SnowHawk.3615:

A guardian will almost always die against conditions (engi) unless she has the right support from 1 other player or more, since bunk guards tend to do their best in groups depending on the build.
I used to play bunk religiously and could defend against 3 players depending on their class and build, but I could hold them long enough for backup. I never had problems with zerks especially stun locks it may be a L2P issue which doesn’t make you a bad player but possibly you need to pay more attention to your skills and time management of them- stick to another player if going alone is your issue there is no shame in that – you can hold a point better and keep that player alive longer to support point gain.

So, you’re saying that Guardians playing regulary during ESLs got L2P issues with sustaining themselves? Are you serious?

No I didn’t literally say that. I didn’t direct anything towards those ESL players, Im speaking generally about bunker guards.
What I AM saying is they die vs sustained condition in a 1v1.
I said ‘depending on the build’ such as Altruistic healing is better for +1 team support especially against a power based team more so than a virtue bunk would in terms of team healing but virtue bunks are great at keeping points – I think the idea of a bunk is a supposed to be a tanky class against any other class which I feel should be true but Anet designed zerker&condi to be queen of the ring condi being the death to bunk and medi guards. Altruistic bunkers don’t do bad alone but they tend not to do great for long periods in a 1v2 or 3 and that’s not my fault or anyone else’s unless you you stand there and take it in the face while uselessly spamming your skills then it IS a L2p issue.

posthumecaver.6473:

My Guardian, tankiest build you can have in GW2, with its pathetic 13K HP pool dies to one stunlock in 1s to 2 zerkers.

Um, anyone else notice he said 13K hp was the tankiest build he could make? Not 100% sure but I think when you intend to bunker you want to get some vitality up no? I have more hp than that playing zerker ranger. I think you did something wrong. Maybe post your build so people can help you adjust it, I have seen plenty of builds that last a good while vs a few opponents.

I am the best guardian and all your arguments are invalid because YOU KNOW NOTHING, JOHN SNOW

SlayerSixx.5763:

Firebird.8324:

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing. Aside from skills like gun flame that you’ll probably never see at a high level, damage is more or less the same.

If you get ganked by two guys running what are arguably the highest burst and single target CC classes in the game, what’s the issue? Do you expect to nullify their damage entirely and run around in circles? Back when people cried about minstrel, the commonly repeated counter was “bring two dpsers and focus”. In many cases, it didn’t work because the amulet made you too tanky. Now, though? It finally works again and matches can move forward instead of a guy rofltanking more damage than a worldboss.

If you see a trap DH jump down onto your point and drop all his traps to kill you, you can either concede the point and assist another location OR (just an idea mind you, I haven’t played many tourneys) your +1 roamer keeps tabs on the people who’ve died and watch for possible plays. If your roamer is good, you shouldn’t have an issue getting ganked, but that’s just my nameless self speaking.

Also, about the random interrupts….. As sayian listed, bunker has ENOUGH sources of stunbreak and stab.

Yes bunker guard worked Pre-Hot, but only if you built a comp around it. Most people don’t like it because it forces weird rotations that they are not used to, due to the bruiser meta being so dominant for the last 2 years.

Also don’t lecture me about what a guard has enough of in terms of. Its almost an insult. As if anyone who knows anything about guardian doesn’t know what it has. Those who’ve mastered it and understand high level pvp at its fullest, understand exactly why its difficult to run one, what its lacking, and why its lacking what its lacking.

You saying that a guard has a, b , and c simply because you know what the class has access to is beyond idiotic.

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

I’ve read your posts and clearly you don’t understand the heart of this issue whatsoever. Guardian by it’s NAME is supposed to have a guard/support aspect to it in order to support people, most of its traits and abilities are purely for support. The problem is, the ENTIRE GURADIAN ASPECT OF GUARDIAN is completely worthless and nonviable right now.

Guardians WILL DIE by going NEAR a point, Guardians WILL DIE when trying to rez ANYONE. Guardians will die when standing close enough to allies to support them with shouts! As a bunker guard, you can’t bunker, you can’t support, you can’t rez because everything has way too many stuns+damage+chill+vuln etc. for you to survive long enough to be useful.

As it stands right now, if a Guardian is NOT a DH it is a liability and will work AGAINST your team. In order to fix this Guardians NEED MORE VITALITY.

Warrior by its name is meant be in the middle of battle, beating the crap out of everything, but that’s obviously not the case. Mesmer, by its name, is meant to confuse targets, but that’s obviously not the case. What are dragon hunters doing fighting charr in kyhlo? They should be off in maguuma chasing after mordy. Berserkers should mindless rage beasts not even under the control of the player using them. Reapers should be immortal vampires, continuously feeding off of their enemies.

Ridiculous, arbitrary comment is ridiculous.

Wanna res your ally? Have your allies stall the enemy as you res. You think its fair and balanced to be able to collapse on top of your ally and res them against 2 or 3 people’s pressure? You wanna share boons? Watch out for the nearby necro’s boon corrupt. Wanna hold the point against the enemy DH? Get your roamer to pressure him before he reaches the point.

You can’t honestly have been playing in tourneys for this long and still be this oblivious to such obvious counters.

So, you’re argument is that bunker guard is fine and anyone having problems it’s a learn 2 play issue. Both Morpheus and I made cases that the healthpool is too low for it to be effective and we are some of the best guards in the entire game.

You are baselessly telling us that we have to rely on our team members to pressure the correct people in order to let the the guard fuffill its duty. This is a best case scenario that is likely to never play out “no matter how much experience and team synergy you have”. You have never played at a high level on an esl team or competed in large scale tournaments, you wouldn’t know so your ignorance is understandable.

Baseless? I’m starting to understand why you can’t properly place a legitimate argument. There is logic behind my comment. This is a team play game and bunker guard is supposed to be a team play class.

Protective reviver denies range pressure. If your allies are capable of keeping the enemy occupied at melee so they don’t rush you, that’s called team work. Someone mentioned earlier that a zerker (or equally squishy amulet) could do the res thing too. The problem is that the zerk contains no defensive stats and is most likely not built for support.

Assuming honor/valor/virtues:

You go down for the res. Protective reviver procs. Because of valor, you can activate VoC freely to give you the stability and protection you need to survive for a bit while picking your ally up.

At this point, the enemy knows to go into melee to try stopping you. Naturally, because of the staff trait, your stab and prot both last a little longer than normal, so they can’t CC you immediately, but it doesn’t matter since they’ll just go for the poison + cleave. Now, your ally tries for their down stomp interrupt (assuming not ele/mes/thief) to make your life a little easier.

Two things happen:

A: they don’t dodge. They’ve now been CCed and you’ve most likely finished the res.

B: they dodge, but the time taken recovering from the roll probably gives you enough time to complete the res.

Players have been playing long enough to understand that doing that isn’t going to cut it, so what do they do? They attempt to cleave. Most weapons can hit both the resser AND the downed guy. Throw some poison in and your res attempts are hampered. You’re now being focused by the guy trying to prevent the stomp. You’re doing absolutely nothing to defend yourself from the DPSer because you’re occupied with something else. The DPSer gets to even unload their entire burst on you with little chance of you countering it, so what happens? You die, naturally. This is why team mates distracting the guy with their own DPS/CC is necessary.

I’m not sure what kind if backwards logic may exist during an ESL match, but to simply claim that you’re right because you’ve played more matches in ESL means nothing.

Crinn.7864:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

If you are trying to hold nodes 1v1 as a bunk guard it means you’re in the wrong place doing the wrong thing. The whole point of taking a bunk guard is for support in teamfights, doing 1v1s with it is wasting the bunker’s team’s time and completely defeating the point of a bunker since bruisers are far better and more efficient at 1v1s.

As for teamfights, the other team doesn’t need to coordinate CC when a single daze+ambient AoE that is present in all teamfights will do the work for us.

The whole point of asking for a HP buff is so that it requires some level of effort to kill bunks since right now bunk guards lack the raw survivability to make them worth taking over a bruiser.

Actually that info is a bit misconstrued.

A few months after the game came out, I first heard the words “Bunk [him] off point” then later “Bunk a point”. By definition the word Bunk means A place for sleeping.

First and foremost, Bunkers were meant to prevent a point from being captured. That alone has to been bunkers #1 strong suit and reason for existing. The reason bunk guardians were chosen as the bunker class is because he has the best team supports in the game and is often viable when he’s not holding or contesting a point.

The reason Shout War replaced Guard was because Cele Engi, 2xEle were already self sustains and bunkish. The 5th pick, Thief, was a class that didn’t necessarily need a bunker for sustains. This entire team comp didn’t need a thing from bunk guardian so they opt for a more damaging and mobile class that still offered decent supportive attributes.

If we look back in history, the only Guardian Build that needed Vita was medi guard – he simply lacked sustains compared to everyone else, especially his Bunker counterpart. Now Power guard is fine but Bunker guard is lacking sustains. It’s clear that we need additional utility functionality like Stability or some form of dmg mitigation in Honor for us Bunker Guardians. They thought DH would help Bunk sustains but the Traps don’t exactly offer anything in that regards…