Guild Wars 2

Had a horrible tPvP match in the last round yesterday where my random team did face a team with 2 Bunker Guardians, 2 Bunker Eles and 1 Bunker Engineer … we just couldn’t kill anything since they did cap 2 points and were able to hold them forever. It was so Frustrating -.- (I’m not sure about if they were Random since they didn’t had a Team, but that doesn’t mean anything I guess)

ryston.7640:

Guess it got missed.

Tell me a burst build that isnt also a dps build please?

I see ppl arguing wether burst or dps builds should counter bunkers… but im at a loss to think of a burst build that cant dps, and i cant think of any dps builds commonly run that cant burst. The fact is that to make a dps build youve already taken most of what it takes to burst, so the remaining cost of opportunity between burst or survival…

The ONLY exceptions that come to mind are the ranger dot build, which has questionable dps, and my total lack of understanding regarding necro builds.

Really? OK well NECRO! so done. Necro can dps but can’t in anyway BURST. Not sure how you could forget about the Necro….nvm, the Dev have forgotten about he Necro its not surprising you have.

Necros can have incredible power damage output in Lich Form. Continuous 4.5k crits is what I’d consider burst. It’s incredibly gimmicky though, moreso then 100B and the like in my opinion. It’s not really that viable, but I’d consider it a form of burst. Their direct damage output with Staff and main hand Dagger is pretty good too, their problem is related to other stuff. They have issues, but I think people exaggerate how drastic they are.

Ayestes.1273:

Necros can have incredible power damage output in Lich Form. Continuous 4.5k crits is what I’d consider burst. It’s incredibly gimmicky though, moreso then 100B and the like in my opinion. It’s not really that viable, but I’d consider it a form of burst. Their direct damage output with Staff and main hand Dagger is pretty good too, their problem is related to other stuff. They have issues, but I think people exaggerate how drastic they are.

Sorry but when you say Necro’s have Burst but that burst is on a 180 CD. That does not even come close to comparing to other Prof. Name one other Prof that can only get burst every 180sec. Your really trying to say the Staff auto attack hits hard?

I think you completely misunderstood what I said. I think it’s gimmicky, because of that cooldown. I don’t think it’s viable. The staff 4 and auto attacks do output a decent amount of damage, but I was speaking more the combination of using it with the dagger. I don’t think that’s viable either, but not because the damage output is low. I agree with you that Necro’s need serious changes and some buffs, but I don’t agree that they completely lack burst. It’s gimmicky and not viable in tPvP, but claiming they lack it completely is disingenuous in my opinion.

Well there are rifle engineer builds too but i dont think those have been viable since bwe3

They can be viable, but I think they are gimmicky akin to a Pistol Whip Thief or Hundred Blades Warrior build. Dodge the toolkit burst and you are fine.

Ayestes.1273:

I think you completely misunderstood what I said. I think it’s gimmicky, because of that cooldown. I don’t think it’s viable. The staff 4 and auto attacks do output a decent amount of damage, but I was speaking more the combination of using it with the dagger. I don’t think that’s viable either, but not because the damage output is low. I agree with you that Necro’s need serious changes and some buffs, but I don’t agree that they completely lack burst. It’s gimmicky and not viable in tPvP, but claiming they lack it completely is disingenuous in my opinion.

So its not viable, so in other words they don’t have it. If something is not viable than it might as well not be in the game as its not something the Prof can use. In other words they don’t have it. And I don’t know what staff spec your playing but even if you go Full power in tpvp the most your getting out of Staff auto attack is 600-700 damage a hit, on a very slow attack. That’s not burst, that’s sustain. Eng rifle hits harder and has a faster attack.

We are arguing over what we classify as burst, so I don’t think it has much to do with the topic anymore. I ran a Power Necro build last week (and yes, found it terrible in terms of viability, but I don’t think that means it has no “burst”, but that’s my opinion), and found the staff auto attack landing crits for over 2.5k. You are exaggerating here, and we have different definitions of burst.

Ayestes.1273:

We are arguing over what we classify as burst, so I don’t think it has much to do with the topic anymore. I ran a Power Necro build last week (and yes, found it terrible in terms of viability, but I don’t think that means it has no “burst”, but that’s my opinion), and found the staff auto attack landing crits for over 2.5k. You are exaggerating here, and we have different definitions of burst.

No you are the one exaggerating. I was giving real numbers. Landing what you say is 2.5K crits over a span of what 2 sec between attacks? is not Burst. Not when other Prof can crit higher than that instantly.

The problem is that you have some odd ideas of what burst is. The fact that you think “2.5k” crits every 2 sec is burst just negates anything you have to say.

I don’t really consider the staff auto-attacks burst either. The only thing I said was “Their direct damage output with Staff and main hand Dagger is pretty good too”, and that seems to be interpreted by you as me believing they deal burst damage with staff auto-attacks. The only point of contention I have with your definition of burst deals with Lich Form. All you are doing is twisting my words to argue with me, when I actually agree that a Necro needs buffs especially related to power builds. I don’t even understand what you are trying to argue beyond how angry you are with the Necro’s current state. You have made several good points in this thread, but honestly you’ve completely discredited yourself with the way you discuss it. I’m not going to argue with you for the sake of arguing, especially when you can’t see your own exaggerations. Besides, this is all ridiculously off-topic now.

Ayestes.1273:

I don’t really consider the staff auto-attacks burst either. The only thing I said was “Their direct damage output with Staff and main hand Dagger is pretty good too”, and that seems to be interpreted by you as me believing they deal burst damage with staff auto-attacks. The only point of contention I have with your definition of burst deals with Lich Form. All you are doing is twisting my words to argue with me, when I actually agree that a Necro needs buffs especially related to power builds. I don’t even understand what you are trying to argue beyond how angry you are with the Necro’s current state. You have made several good points in this thread, but honestly you’ve completely discredited yourself with the way you discuss it. I’m not going to argue with you for the sake of arguing, especially when you can’t see your own exaggerations. Besides, this is all ridiculously off-topic now.

You talked about the Dagger and Staff while talking about burst. When i than stated that the Staff was in no way Burst. You tried to back the clam that the Staff did have burst.

Name one time that i exaggerated?

Turns out you can’t.

Also what gives you the right to make statements “how angry you are with the Necro’s current state.” I never said that i was angry with the current state of the Necro. You lost all credibility long ago.

If your unable to realize your mistake, and you have to resort to attacking another poster, than you are correct there is nothing more to discus.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Full power in tpvp the most your getting out of Staff auto attack is 600-700 damage

Exaggeration. I’m done here.

Ayestes.1273:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Full power in tpvp the most your getting out of Staff auto attack is 600-700 damage

Exaggeration. I’m done here.

How? I ran the test. Not stacking might that was the best i could get off of staff 1, going full spite and stacking power (runes and berserker’s).

1 staff hits heavy target for ~600, hits light for about ~740. non crit.

Nope didn’t exaggerated at all.

While you on the other hand said that you have seen a 2.4k crit. With out any context behind that. Perhaps the other player had 25 stacks of Vuln, or the attacker had 25 stacks of might. Who knows. If anyone is exaggerating it has been you.

You have been done for some time, since you have no clue what your talking about.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Your really trying to say the Staff auto attack hits hard?

Yes with my power/crit spec necro staff autohit can do close to 2K(crit) per shot.

I wouldn’t touch mainhand dagger with a 44 1/2 foot pole.

TeoH.2098:

milo.6942:

Bunker purpose is to “waste time” not necessarily “win” a 1v1 fight.

Listen to this guy, all the complaints in this thread are missplaced because you are concerning yourselves with who ‘wins’ against who, as if these different roles were duelling eachother.

A glass cannon sacrifices survivability in order to be able to kill things quickly.

A bunker sacrifices damage in order to stay alive as long as possible, and hold a point.

If the bunker’s goal is to stay alive as long as possible, it’s plainly obvious that the counter to that goal is a character who is built to kill things as quickly as possible. Any other conclusion would require some alternative victory condition that didn’t involve killing the bunker so you can cap the point.

The problem the devs are referring to is not the ability of the bunker to stay alive for a long time, or the ability of the cannon to kill things quickly. The problem is that the excessive retaliation on the bunker allows them to outright kill the cannon in a fight, rather than just turtling up for time. The bunker is supposed to have sacrificed damage to be able to turtle for a long time, allowing them to kill cannons while turtling through reflection doesn’t make sense.

Which is why their solution doesn’t touch the ability of the Guardian to stay alive, it just makes it harder for them to kill things while doing it.

This make sthe most sense to me by far, i agree.