Guild Wars 2

Downed state, the bane of bad players. Honestly the number of things you could do is pretty extensive to actually secure stomps and prevent revives.

Preventing revives:
Knockback
Stun
Daze
Blow out
Fear
Pull
Just plain ol killing the reviver

Things to make sure you actually stomp a person
Stability
Invulnerability
Invisible
Blind
Daze
Dodging the interrupt
Quickness stomp

Knowing how to secure a stomp, how to prevent revives and when its better to simply let someone bleed out are all key skills for pvp. If you’re not taking abilities or traits to make sure you can stomp then that is your fault and as such you’ll need to do things like avoid the interrupt to make sure you finish someone off.

I don’t see why people feel some strange need to be able to 3v1 people. Most of the time as long as those 3 people are not brain dead you’ll lose anyway just do the sheer damage of focus fire. 2v1 is possible, but difficult depending on the circumstances and more or less revolves around the capabilities of your build. And if your foes are actually intelligent then the best you can often do when out-manned is escape, stall, or kill one before getting scrapped yourself.

The pacing and combat in Gw2 isn’t like that of a shooter, were yes you can if you’re skilled quickly dispatch of several players in moments. The game is slower paced, objective focused, and teamwork oriented and people need to accept that.

It’s not that downstate has no strategy. Yes there are lots of ways to stomp and prevent it. But the point is the reasons why it detracts from fun. Not everyone’s opinion of course because some find downstate fun.

A game needs to be not only strategic and balanced, but also fun.

There are fun things about downstate like watching someone and going “ohhh is he going to get the stomp? noo interrupted, revived!” and this back and forth can have some excitement.

But many complain about thieves porting around. Mesmers being too powerful, etc sayign they are unbalanced but also not fun to play against (and I wonder, do thieves get fun out of using their little teleport dissappear ability? personally i don’t find using stealth mechanics it very fun.)

Lots of strategy in downstate yes, but unbalanced and contains not-so-fun elements.

I think perhaps we shouldn’t have the ability to do damage in downstate. That way it prevents 1v1 situations where you end up in a downstate rock flinging contest for 15 seconds.

I love downed state. It adds another strategic level and gives you that feeling of fighting for your life. You have complete glass cannon thieves and warriors that drop you in 2 seconds because your stun breakers were on cool down, but then start swinging away in downed state and they realize oh kitten this cheese insta gob isn’t just a free kill because I caught someone with utilities down. Lol

I love when I kill someone 1v1 say I’m at half health and utilities on Cd, and an enemy Zerg rolls through by wreck me but move on and forgot about stomping me, I Rez myself and heal come back with a vengeance and wreck them its such a great feeling.

I’d rather have ACTUAL fights lasting longer, burst reduced, bunkers reduced, so it’s all on a similar level, and have downed state be less of a factor, basically less dmg from downed state and a bit less downed health in SPvp. Just my opinion on it. I want the game to focus more on the actual fighting rather than downed statekittenderping.

In that case the issue would still be teams spiking/focus firing a single player to down one guy first and take him out of the fight. Without healers to prevent this I can see how it would be a huge annoyance in gw2 pvp without downstate or hopefully in the future a better implementation of it.

Maybe if there was some sort of auto-mitigation that comes in whenever you are attacked by more than one player?

So removing healers entirely maybe wasent such a great idea huh

Healers are NOT the answer. Why play with skill when you have a pocket healer?

You have a system in place where the healer cannot heal if he is under fire.

I fought this guy the other day that had a pocket dps, do you believe it?! Talk about unfair…

what system? dedicated targeted healers in pvp only serve to prolong the fight/slow things down. We already have self healing. If you’ve played PVP in WOW Cata you will know what I’m talking about. 5 min long fights are such a pain, everyone spamming healing.

Healers are not the answer, tweaking of burst and bunkers are. The most fun thing about PVP in this game is the fast pace and the fluidity of the combat system. Furthermore, GW2 wants to be as far away from the holy trinity as possible.

WoW is not the only game to have ever existed, see daoc’s interrupt system.

Without healers and effective crowd control burst wins. I think its reasonable to say the downed state system was put in place to deal with the fallout from removing healers.

The system is bad, Id rather have healers.

Acelerion.6820:

WoW is not the only game to have ever existed, see daoc’s interrupt system.

Without healers and effective crowd control burst wins. I think its reasonable to say the downed state system was put in place to deal with the fallout from removing healers.

The system is bad, Id rather have healers.

yeah, healers, now put them with bunkers, and everyone can stop playing the game altogether. What a great idea.

Or you can focus fire the healer down and go on about your business.

except in a 2 v 2 the healer and the bunker will probably > you. Weeee guardian knockdowns!

You see, adding healers will just add a whole bunch of mess to pvp. If you like dedicated heal bots so much, this isnt the game for you.

I wish all classes had the same skills while in downed state. Thief and mesmer downed states are legitimately good. You better have over 20% of your life and not have any other enemies around or you’re screwed.

I also wish you could stomp people underwater, because beating a limp body for 5 extra minutes is dumb, and it’s even dumber when it’s an ele that got downed on land and vapor formed into the water. Great, now I have to waste more time beating his lifeless body.

Don’t get me started on the rally system. It’s infuriating, especially in WvW. Just beat a guy? Great job, oh wait he’s back on his feet with half his life because of something died. Don’t get me started on warriors popping vengeance and wacking a half dead moa with vengeance traited.

Also, you can’t just straight up guaranteed stability stomp ele’s, mesmer, thief, or necro. The first 3 because their #2 down state moves their location, so you have to waste time going through the stomp animation before they trigger it, and necro because fear goes through stabo, even though the tooltip says stability prevents it. So once again, you better have a bunch of life and not be fighting anybody else at the time or you’re screwed.

And finally, quickness stomps work like 20% of the time. Seriously I don’t know if this is warrior (frenzy) specific, but I don’t even bother stomping while I have quickness because it never actually works and I just end up wasting a bunch of time.

I don’t necessarily dislike the whole downstate mechanic, I just don’t think it’s very well implemented. I love frantically trying to interrupt a stomp, or quickly revive a downed ally, but it’s usually just a frustrating ordeal.

Maybe if people had like super low HP and their heal gets put on CD when they are revived I’d be better off with downstate. As it stands it’s just frustrating.

Numot.3965:

Downed state, the bane of bad players.

Downed state love it, dont want it removed

monepipi.5160:

except in a 2 v 2 the healer and the bunker will probably > you. Weeee guardian knockdowns!

You see, adding healers will just add a whole bunch of mess to pvp. If you like dedicated heal bots so much, this isnt the game for you.

as opposed to now where 2 bunker guardians > 2 anything because you will never stomp 1 or be able to rez your own team mate

The people who don’t like downed state aren’t playing Thieves and Mesmers, who are both OP when they’re alive and downed. Seriously, wtf.

They just need to kittenen balance the downed states so that they’re all equally viable. I would prefer they balanced downed states rather than take it out completely. I actually don’t mind downed state as an Ele, it’s just super frustrating downed mesmers and thieves.

Being downe is not balanced AoE defense (Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger, Mesmer, Thief) vs single target defense (warrior, necromancer, engineer).
The chances of killing a downed enemy isn’t handed out equally either. Some can stomp enemies whie invul (mesmer, thief, guardian, warrior), some can stomp with quickness, some can stomp with stability, some can stomp while invisible and there is the necromancer which can just stomp.
In addition some classes can not be stopped from reviving an ally.
Its a mess….
GW2 plays like an unnecessary complicated shooter with a second chance mechanic :/

i play thief / mesmer/ warr / ele / engineer

Warrior is my favorite one, though im not even traited for vengeance. ofc im not gonna prolong a pointless fight where i cant kill my enemy but when i do see that i can pull it off i charge at and em pop all remaining cd’s, often killing them when they are already downed with a frenzied 100 blades and go like ‘Yeah, Ef you buddy’ as i drop dead next to them lol

Ele is my second in line since the downed state boost, its litterly from zero to hero and when im on the raid on the capricorn i always try to die near the water when mid is ours, fun to jump in the water and try to get a revive or rally when the sharks omnomnom them.

Thief is my 3rd favorite, the teleport in combination with the stealth has saved my life in both pve and pvp but those moments i can actually count on one hand. versus the avarage pvp player that has done pvp for more then a few hours, you do nothing but waste time / annoy them. stomp is often ineviteble, unless you get a lucky rally so u can pop your Hide in shadows and flee or jump back into the fight. (often its just flee)

Least favorite is actually my mesmer, basicly its kind of the same story as the thief. sure you might fool a new player with a clone but sooner or later (ussualy sooner) they will get to know that the mesmer you must stomp is the one with the big honking red arrow above is soon-to-be-corpse. the rogue does nice damage but when it comes of c’d for use, i ussualy get stomped 1 second later. wich is fine and balanced i suppose, but mesmer really feels like the most inable class to escape in both pvp and pve, but i must admit it has also teleported me to some spots/ledges where the enemy coundt stomp me. (Bushes in front of the keep on Forest)

Mammoth.1975:

Numot.3965:

Downed state, the bane of bad players.

how so? In other games 1 skilled player can kill 2-4 bad players if they play well. In GW2 you can’t do that thanks to downed state.

If anything it removes a level of skill and simply makes it a numbers game. Oh you could 1v2 them? oh, well you got downed state to deal with so better bring a friend to make it a 2v2 roflstomp for sure.

Sprawl.3891:

Mammoth.1975:

Numot.3965:

Downed state, the bane of bad players.

how so? In other games 1 skilled player can kill 2-4 bad players if they play well. In GW2 you can’t do that thanks to downed state.

If anything it removes a level of skill and simply makes it a numbers game. Oh you could 1v2 them? oh, well you got downed state to deal with so better bring a friend to make it a 2v2 roflstomp for sure.

Except you can still kill 2-4 weak players solo. I see vids of people doing it in WvW all the time. You could say it’s different because of gear but at the end of the day a bad player and an under prepared player both under perform, and that this also proves that skillful playing can also overcome the downed state. I mean seriously I’ve seen a D/D ele take out 2 groups of 4 in a row.
They fact that people have figured out how to overcome the Downed Hurdle and some have even learned to make it an asset when facing more then one opponent solo shows that it’s possible to work with it rather then against it. It also proves that if you aren’t trying to master it, you’d rather whine for something to be removed rather then try to learn and understand it.

Ive seen that video too, thats why i main an ele now and managed to win a few 1vs2 – 1 vs3’s but no 1vs4 yet haha

Sprawl.3891:

how so? In other games 1 skilled player can kill 2-4 bad players if they play well. In GW2 you can’t do that thanks to downed state.

Except you still can just fine. I never understand this complaint.

why would you even want to face bad players to begin with. i have never understood this argument. once things get situated and rolling and brackets and matchmaking happens you should never fight 3-4 bad players anyway. which is why any argument in pvp about a system should consider equal skilled combat. if i 1 v 4 someone i might think about quitting the match and showing on the forums how OP that class is.

downed state is awesome. balancing it would be awesome. i personally think that every downed state should be a mix between the guardian and the ranger:

ALL players should down with the exact same HP and all armor values removed/all stats removed via traits and gear: say 7k “downed hp” and all stats as if the player was naked(remove all passive procs ie lightning strike/rockdog spawn/anything else that happens passively because of gear

All Players should have reduced Damage towards downed players and conditions should not affect downed players similar to the way destructible objects work(gates)

1. throw mud this must be seperate from stats should be a flat value across all classes regardless of spec/build/gear/what have you and scale with level. ie 2 damage at lvl 1 160 dmg at lvl 80

2. AOE interrupt either knock people back or just a regular interrupt with out knockback. this should hit all targets and affect them regardless of stealth stability mistform or whatever.

3. i really wanted everyone to have a pet rez here but not everyone has a pet so i will equate it with guardian again an AOE burst heal centered on the downed player it should again scale with level for a flat amount regardless of healing power.

4. remains the same if someone ignores you that long you should be able to recover after awhile again this should not be affected by healing power and should be equal between all classes.

Downed state Is kind of silly, imho. Specially If you are doing 1v1 fights. I mean, there’s no way a downed player can fight back and get back on his feet by yourself against one or two players… unless I’m missing something.
Now, since GW2 Is based towards teamwork and E-Sports… It adds strategy and makes you “think” between using a knockdown/interrupt skill on that guy who’s attacking you, or on the guy trying to finish that downed player a bit far away from you, etc.

short and simple. I hate it, please remove it

GustavoM.7605:

Downed state Is kind of silly, imho. Specially If you are doing 1v1 fights. I mean, there’s no way a downed player can fight back and get back on his feet by yourself against one or two players… unless I’m missing something.
Now, since GW2 Is based towards teamwork and E-Sports… It adds strategy and makes you “think” between using a knockdown/interrupt skill on that guy who’s attacking you, or on the guy trying to finish that downed player a bit far away from you, etc.

Warrior, Traited Vengeance

Honestly, I’d prefer there be a “weakened state” instead of a downed state, exactly. Rather than just completely failing and resorting to chucking rocks at people, you instead are permanently crippled and weakened. Your health resets, recharges get worse, and so on. Can’t remove cripple or weakness. When you die that way, you just die. No downing.

Most the time I hate the downed state. Whether it’s me being downed or my opponent. Some classes seem to do more damage to me in their downed state! Feels like it takes so long to down someone only to be intterupted over and over then they end up getting rezzed!!!

I would like it better if they gave Stability while downing or rezzing players. Obviously they would need to change downed skills if that happened.

This thread is like everyone that never played a tourny before vs people that tourny regularly

Doesn’t play tournies: “downed state suxx and is not fun why can’t i solo 2 people”
Plays tournies with guild group: “downed state <3”

BlueprintLFE.2358:

I love downed state. It adds another strategic level and gives you that feeling of fighting for your life. You have complete glass cannon thieves and warriors that drop you in 2 seconds because your stun breakers were on cool down, but then start swinging away in downed state and they realize oh kitten this cheese insta gob isn’t just a free kill because I caught someone with utilities down. Lol

You see how stupid downade state is now?
Just like i said in another topic, Glass Cannon classes are having more survivavibility than the onces that change Power for Toughness due to downade state wich is just a complete mess of blinks , invis and throw things.

gwawer.9805:

Your comment about the thief bursting down mage to fight warrior in DaoC doesn’t sound very fun to me. If it’s another burst class that makes fights frustrating for everyone else then that’s not the direction to go. Fun for thief, but ruins PVP overall, just like certain builds are atm in gw2.

You should be able to win a 2v1 but not through OMG I PWNED HIM IN 2sec LAWL but rather through excellently timed mitigation and interrupts. That makes an audience say dammmn this dude is amazing he just 2v1’ed those guys. Rather than…wow that thief does so much damage he can own 2 people.

Apparently you never played DAOC. It was amazing fun. Sure the mage didn’t like getting wacked, but they understood the game. That class wasn’t meant to solo. They would be for keep defence and they would destroy tons of people at a time due to their AOE dmg.

GW2 sold me on their ideas they ripped off from DOAC. But, they ended up being nowhere near as good. Getting rid of downstate would make it one giant step in the right direction though.

Still waiting for someone with at least 1 QP to say they hate downstate….

I hate downed state! Bam! In your face, Seether!
Nah I didn’t like it at first but I’m used to it now and like it well enough. But like everything else though it could still use some balance adjustments.