Guild Wars 2

If you can’t balance there the solution !!!

Sadly, Guild wars 2, a generic P2W.

Or you can just buy the game like the rest of us. But hey what do I know?

“generic p2w” implies microtransactions such as purchasing the strongest armor and weapons with real money and whatnot.

I’m going to assume this is a troll thread since every single other MMO at expansion raises the level cap, meaning anyone who doesn’t buy it is not even able to reach max level and participating in PvP content would be suicide.

Are Elite specs too strong compared to the base specs right now? For the most part, yes. Does that make the game pay 2 win? Nope. Get your facts straight please.

Making them buyable with gold (=gems), wouldn’t really make GW2 less P2W.

before f2p its a p2play game and so if they want to make it buyable for free player they should charge a high amount of gold to purchase a single elite spec of 800gold

princode.2750:

before f2p its a p2play game and so if they want to make it buyable for free player they should charge a high amount of gold to purchase a single elite spec of 800gold

Nah, then the cheapskates will just complain that the gold amount is too high.

They could sell it from gems tho…

That would open the possibility of someone buying ONLY one elite spec and not the totality of HoT if he doesn’t desire to.

Also would open the possibility of farming gold like a maniac than exchange currency for gems and get your favorite character elite spec without buying HoT, while still beeing kittenning hard to obtain it.

why should they sell it for gems it takes away from people who actually bothered to buy the expansion imo

I don’t know if I want this or don’t want this.

If I fight a team full of F2P players, I will have a big advantage. But then I will have F2P players in my team and it will put me in a disadvantage.

People suggesting this don’t understand the concept of business at all. It is almost never beneficial for the seller of a product to sell a popular product separately at a higher price than combined together at a ‘discounted’ price. That’s why you see bundles. They know there is kitten in the bundle no one wants but they force you to fork out a higher fee to get the thing you do want. You think Arenanet actually cares whether you think its balanced or not if you don’t have an elite spec in PvP? Don’t be so naive.

This is the problem with Arena Net abusing and using the term “Free to play”. Guild wars 2 is not free to play, it has a glorified unlimited “Trial” of the core game for people to try out, if they like it, they can buy it.

Game is not your traditional true free to play game. Guild wars 2 is buy to play. So please stop using dumb terms like “pay to win” and other silly terms.

If you enjoy the game, buy it.

i seriously hate the F2P player….come to think of it there’s no f2p out there. In fact GW2 is the best F2P game out there.

You want to know whats pay2win
1. Archage
2.hearthstone
3. sfgame
4. APB reloaded

Some people really dont get the concept of an expansion…as I said before, be glad they didnt increase lvl cap.

Everyone who is honest with the game understands that Elite specs are pretty much pay to win.

Nobody of those that say GW2 is not pay to win would argue the same if it is not GW2. You know, as of right now, it looks like you have to buy Overwatch and they just said that it will include only the core heroes, and they might add hero packs later. They don’t know yet. Everyone is saying what a terrible idea that is. It is quite similar to GW2. But here it is suddenly ok?

The bigger problem is, that they try to get e-Sports going. Yet they just trying to flush down 400 grand down the toilet by having the current business model.

People will see the tournaments/finals on the front page. They will download the game. They will try pvp. They get destroyed by elite specs. They see elite specs being played almost exclusively by the tournament players. They look up how they can unlock them themself. They leave because they are not willing to upfront spend money for a game they know nothing about just to be able to play on a even level.

Or better yet. Make elite spec’s to something they where meant to be, an extra special specialization wich gives you new skills and weapon but not a over buffed class. With this I mean Anet needs to nerf all but two elite spec’s so that they are not a must.

Loop.8106:

Or you can just buy the game like the rest of us. But hey what do I know?

Yepp, GW2 isn’t a F2P game, making the core game F2P is a standard marketing-option for MMO’s and doesn’t indicate that users who don’t pay should be able to enjoy everything the other users do.

ANet has to make their own choice if they think it’s worth making some F2P-players happy but possibly have less ppl buy the expansion, there is no legitimate reason for F2P-users to have beef with ANet about this.

Would be great if we could buy the elite specs with gold or gems, its an especially attractive option for players who mainly or only play pvp.

Nina.4317:

If you can’t balance there the solution !!!

Sadly, Guild wars 2, a generic P2W.

P2W and buying an expansion is not the same.

Besides, its not like the expansion is expensive relatively.
Its a one time purchase for the expansion. You dont have a monthly subscription either, as with some other mmorpgs who do and who also have expansions on top (WoW for example).

Having a drink a few times, seeing a movie, buying a few dvds over time etc. will cost you more for less hours spend than GW2 Heart of Thorns (HoT).

They need to make an income somehow to keep it all running.
Its not coming from montly subscriptions.
There is the gem shop, but that doesnt provides mostly cosmetics in there, which you can just skip.

Tbh it sounds a bit spoiled and ignorant to me if you want everything this game has to offer for free and no monthly subscription on top.

How do you expect to keep the game running well if they have no income from a onetime purchase of the game/expansion AND no montly subcripton?
The quality of the game would go down for sure with much less income.

I find it normalthat you have to buy HoT once to access all that a game of this size and quality has to offer. There is no montly sub afterwards so after that one time payment is all free. That one payment to support the game (that you play yourself) and keep it running well seems fair.

Please name another MMORPG of this size and quality that has no monthly sub and not more than a one time purchase of the expansion.

GW2 used to be Buy to Play but then they announced Free to Play. While we all agree that Free to Play is basically a demo of the entire game, its PvP component has always been very good at making it easy to start playing at a competitive level as others. The only issue prior to HoT was skill based.

Hearthstone, DOTA2, LOL, all don’t have subs however you can use in game rewards to purchase updates or you can use cash. For example, Hearthstone has had 3 expansions which you can use in game currency to purchase. While you will have to grind a bit for the expansion cards, it’s available to you.

Now if we look at First Person Shooters, those are Buy to Play. Unless we are talking about Team Fortress 2 which is currently free. Most first person shooters don’t have a free and buy component. I think the issue is that when ANET allowed a F2P component, they now created two classes of gamers where one group has less than the other. People who bought GW2 originally are also in that class.

So the point is this, if you want a game to be buy to play, keep it buy to play. If you want it to be Free to play, then make sure that the PvP options of it (or eSports version) is the same for all players otherwise the PvP component becomes buy to win which is what has happened.

Thiefz.3695:

GW2 used to be Buy to Play but then they announced Free to Play. While we all agree that Free to Play is basically a demo of the entire game, its PvP component has always been very good at making it easy to start playing at a competitive level as others. The only issue prior to HoT was skill based.

Hearthstone, DOTA2, LOL, all don’t have subs however you can use in game rewards to purchase updates or you can use cash. For example, Hearthstone has had 3 expansions which you can use in game currency to purchase. While you will have to grind a bit for the expansion cards, it’s available to you.

Now if we look at First Person Shooters, those are Buy to Play. Unless we are talking about Team Fortress 2 which is currently free. Most first person shooters don’t have a free and buy component. I think the issue is that when ANET allowed a F2P component, they now created two classes of gamers where one group has less than the other. People who bought GW2 originally are also in that class.

So the point is this, if you want a game to be buy to play, keep it buy to play. If you want it to be Free to play, then make sure that the PvP options of it (or eSports version) is the same for all players otherwise the PvP component becomes buy to win which is what has happened.

And it still is B2P.

You picked some poor examples in your second paragraph. Hearthstone is agreed by most to be P2W, as most card games are. LoL and DOTA2 are both F2P. You never have to invest money in either of those games to be competitive, though LoL comes with more of a time component than DOTA2. I can’t speak to the FPS games, I don’t play them.

GW2, however, is buy to play. I think allowing people to play a limited version of the core game for free is confusing people. They don’t want this game to be F2P, and it isn’t. It’s B2P. If you want to play the most up-to-date version of the game, you have to buy their expansion. Just like with pretty much any other MMO out there.

You could say that most people say Hearthstone is “P2W” but they give you a mechanic to get competitive. I have 2 wings from the latest expansion and it took me about 3 weeks to get enough in game gold for it. That’s not a big deal. However it was free.

As far as MMO, it’s buy to play the PvE portion. However with the Free 2 Play pvp options, you are competitive at the beginning. They broke that with the expansion. It meant that a F2P player and a B2P player were equal in PvP only. That stopped with HoT.

You can debate the MMO potion but with the new push for eSports and trying to get competitive against the likes of DOTA, LOL, and other esports games they now have a different ownership/play model than any of the esport games on the market. They should have stuck with either b2P or f2p and not mixed on the eSport side. That’s the problem they are facing from f2p players and people who bought the game originally who are now in the same boat as f2p players.

I don’t really see gw2 as a f2p game. You can get a ‘trail’ account with little restrictions for free. If you want more, you buy the game. They did advertise gw2 as going f2p, and I think they made some slight error there.

The pay-2-win argument comes from the fact that elite specialisations while claimed by arenanet to be ‘just an alternative’ are way stronger than the original core classes.

For me I would be okay buying the elite specialisations for money IF it wouldn’t have been so clear that arenanet is pushing us into buying them because they’re overpowered.

That’s simply wrong to do and I don’t enjoy playing a game that rewards me for paying money, where’s the skill in that?

They could just release a pvp version HoT for lets say 20€.
Unlocks all elite specs and rev ONLY in pvp.
Also unlock every rune/sigil/amulet.

Pretty sure you had this option in GW1
But then people may cry p2w even harder, cause thats how the GW2 community works.
Or PvE’ers will cry that they want a PvE version or w/e

Acotje.5689:

They could just release a pvp version HoT for lets say 20€.
Unlocks all elite specs and rev ONLY in pvp.
Also unlock every rune/sigil/amulet.

Pretty sure you had this option in GW1
But then people may cry p2w even harder, cause thats how the GW2 community works.
Or PvE’ers will cry that they want a PvE version or w/e

THIS!! +1.

The Hearth of The Mist should be down-loadable for FREE, like DOTA2 (millions of users) or LOL (millions of users).

Open up all options. But limit character slot. So people need to grind gold to buy gem to open up character slot. Remove for that game the Portal to LA or to WvW.

Market that “new game” into the MOBA genre (aka Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) and make sure that MOBA game “The Hearth of the MIST” got constant exposure over the MOBA website (ESL, Twitch, …).

Now… You will really have the possibilities to have millions of players staying into a FAIR SPVP game. Not a Pay to Win, in buying a EXPAC to be competitive into SPVP.

Having both options, will reduce the problem mention by above poster. MMO versus Esport. SPVP is not a MMORPG, it’s a MOBA doing Esport where grind or money is not a factor to SKILL based team games.

Dal

p.s. I did buy HoT, I am guild leader and officers in 5 pvp only guilds (since release). F2P bring many into the game. HoT is breaking that… we are on the lowest attendance we had ever seen since the Dhuumfire 2013 summer meta. Yes… lowest… even if a new EXPACt HoT should had bring back way more… something is terriwrong. Plz fix it ASAP.

Acotje.5689:

They could just release a pvp version HoT for lets say 20€.
Unlocks all elite specs and rev ONLY in pvp.
Also unlock every rune/sigil/amulet.

Pretty sure you had this option in GW1
But then people may cry p2w even harder, cause thats how the GW2 community works.
Or PvE’ers will cry that they want a PvE version or w/e

I think this Idea could work pretty well, +1!

GW2 isn’t free to play. It’s more like free to try. You like it? Buy it. You don’t? Go away.

I like the idea of being able to buy elite specs a la carte. The x-pac seemed too high priced. I still hold that notion even after launch. This is coming from someone who owns multiple accounts for GW1 and GW2. There just isn’t enough meat on that bone.

I would however purchase the druid, the chronomancer and the scrapper off the gem shop. I’d love to be able to play those in WvW, PvE and PvP.

Options are good. Why anyone in this thread would want to limit the purchase options for players in this game is hilarious. What do you care if you bought the x-pac if they released elite specs for purchase on the gem shop? It has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Thiefz.3695:

As far as MMO, it’s buy to play the PvE portion. However with the Free 2 Play pvp options, you are competitive at the beginning. They broke that with the expansion. It meant that a F2P player and a B2P player were equal in PvP only. That stopped with HoT.

You can debate the MMO potion but with the new push for eSports and trying to get competitive against the likes of DOTA, LOL, and other esports games they now have a different ownership/play model than any of the esport games on the market. They should have stuck with either b2P or f2p and not mixed on the eSport side. That’s the problem they are facing from f2p players and people who bought the game originally who are now in the same boat as f2p players.

No, it isn’t B2P the PvE stuff, it’s B2P the entire game. There isn’t GW2 PvE, and then GW2 PvP edition. It’s all one game. MMOs aren’t designed for people who only want to PvP, that’s probably why MOBAs came into prominence like they did. I know I left MMOs for MOBAs because I wanted more/better PvP.

As for esports, you can’t compare this game to LoL/DOTA really, they’re not the same genre. That’s like comparing LoL to CSGO. Yes, they both have a professional scene, but there are different expectations for that scene for each game. And esports is a related but really different topic from this.

They have stuck with b2p, their business model hasn’t really changed. People are getting confused now because you can play the older stuff for free. But it’s like any free trial, once you hit the cap, you gotta buy the new stuff to keep going. But because GW2 isn’t designed like other MMOs, the cap isn’t a particular level and it’s not as clear-cut as other MMO free trials.

The elite specs won’t be buyable with gold. If you want HoT content, you have to buy HoT. If you can’t deal with that, time to try a new game. There’s a bunch of new PvP oriented games coming out/already out right now, many of which are truly F2P. Have at it. I’d list my favorites, but I think that’d get this deleted.

I’m pretty sure most players would likely rebuke Anet to the grave, wallets in hand, if they pulled a stunt like this.

The Gw2 player base would make CNN.

lol buy to win.. I hope this is a joke. Why does everyone expect everything for free? Buy the game then suddenly you can poop out level 2 toons and port right to pvp for endless matches of stat balanced fun. Buy to win, what a joke.

maybe if ever they want to make it buy elite specs as a la carte maybe make 1 Elite spec 800G.i think that’s fair for those who had already bought HOT

PowerBottom.5796:

Acotje.5689:

They could just release a pvp version HoT for lets say 20€.
Unlocks all elite specs and rev ONLY in pvp.
Also unlock every rune/sigil/amulet.

Pretty sure you had this option in GW1
But then people may cry p2w even harder, cause thats how the GW2 community works.
Or PvE’ers will cry that they want a PvE version or w/e

I think this Idea could work pretty well, +1!

Something like that would be cool.

I am not a pvp player but I think they could allow people to use the elite specs in pvp. For the rest of the game should stay as it is, if don’t get the expansion then you can’t play them.

My reason to tell this is that since the start of the game they made pvp to give the players access to all the gear and builds, so the players could show their skills against other players. Now, if the elite specs give an adventage like this then one isn’t showing anything anymore, is just like any other p2w game.

To make it short, i think they are going against the pvp game philosophy they had until now.

Plus, unlock the elite specs in pvp would let all players test them and maybe encourage them to play the expansion. Ofc, pvp players may not like to us the “noobs” go to pvp just to test those specs.

Teevell.1684:

No, it isn’t B2P the PvE stuff, it’s B2P the entire game. There isn’t GW2 PvE, and then GW2 PvP edition. It’s all one game. MMOs aren’t designed for people who only want to PvP, that’s probably why MOBAs came into prominence like they did. I know I left MMOs for MOBAs because I wanted more/better PvP.

As for esports, you can’t compare this game to LoL/DOTA really, they’re not the same genre. That’s like comparing LoL to CSGO. Yes, they both have a professional scene, but there are different expectations for that scene for each game. And esports is a related but really different topic from this.

They have stuck with b2p, their business model hasn’t really changed. People are getting confused now because you can play the older stuff for free. But it’s like any free trial, once you hit the cap, you gotta buy the new stuff to keep going. But because GW2 isn’t designed like other MMOs, the cap isn’t a particular level and it’s not as clear-cut as other MMO free trials.

The elite specs won’t be buyable with gold. If you want HoT content, you have to buy HoT. If you can’t deal with that, time to try a new game. There’s a bunch of new PvP oriented games coming out/already out right now, many of which are truly F2P. Have at it. I’d list my favorites, but I think that’d get this deleted.

You’re just arguing specifics with me. My point was this, if you can’t play the game without buying it, then it is B2P. If you can download the client and play the game with people who purchased the game, then it’s F2P. The problem is that they mixed F2P and B2P together. If you buy the game, you get 3 things: a new class, new elites, and new heroes for stronghold. That’s it. A F2P player has access to all the amulets, runes, weapons, and classes as someone who bought the game minus those three things. Again, I’m only taking about PvP since this is the subforum we are on.

I understand your point, the reality is that this is a B2P game because the F2P portion is limited and mostly a demo. However, what was sold to people prior to HoT was “It’s free to play and you can start PvP right away without needing anything.” Which was true prior to HoT and continues to be true EXCEPT that revenant and the elites are better than the base classes. Which means the F2P folks are at a disadvantage.

So yes, this is a B2P game but having B2P people mixed with F2P people is going to make things salty.

I’ve bought HoT, and I wouldn’t mind GW2 PvP going completly F2P.