Guild Wars 2

There is currently a thread on this forum discussing the sad state of necros (especially condition necros) in pvp. In my view it is currently indeed the worst class, countered by most of the current meta builds. I wanted to discuss what could be done to make necros viable.

I think the damage output and the sustain on necros are fine. What I believe should be improved are the other core abilities: applying soft cc (weakness, chill, blind), boon corruption and condition transfer. I will make some suggestions to this end below and invite you to make more.

I want to say No! Necros are fine! You’re wrong! But seeing one of the most competitive teams NA get crushed in an international tournament because their Necro got camped and picked off makes me feel otherwise. The fact that there is no other Necro in any competitive teams doesn’t help, either.

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them. Its weaknesses are exposed if the enemy team is just allowed to effortlessly train the necro without paying a price.

As a medi guard, I can usually offer a lot of protection to condi/power necros, by using the shield bubble, giving them protection and aegis, removing any immobilizes that might prevent them from moving, assisting them with AoE damage if they are attacked by a thief or a guardian. I feel quite strong fighting with a necro because it seems to be a team combination that works very well off each other.

The damage output from a necro is so heavy that you do not necessarily need to do any damage yourself, as long as you keep your necro alive in the fight and deal damage to anybody who comes after him.

As a solo player, I wouldn’t roll a necro, because you cannot know if your random team knows how to play with a necro or not. Probably they will just think the necro can magically self-sustain himself against 3 guys and then blame the necro whenever he gets trained down by the enemy team.

Here are some suggestions. Note: I am in no way advocating that all of these changes should be made, just trying to come up with some ideas.

Firstly, there is a large number of useless traits that I think should be reworked.

1. On death traits in spite: parasitic bond (gain health when you kill a foe) in spite minor and spiteful removal in spite 3.

Issue: In pve an wvw these are ok, however in tpvp mostly useless and in duels completely useless.

Suggested change: change the first one to: heal for 10% of the life force you gain and the second one to: transfer two of your conditions to your foe when you fall below 25% health (60 seconds cooldown).

2. Spiteful marks (marks deal 10% more damage).

Issue: I think obvious: why would anyone ever take this?

Suggested change: replace by an on interrupt trait. I would think either: corrupt a boon when interrupting a foe or cast epidemic when interrupting a foe (15 seconds cooldown). This would promote better use of interrupts, the latter change also being almost exclusively useful for group play.

3. Withering precision (apply 5 seconds of weakness on a critical hit, 20 second cooldown) trait 13 in curses.

Issue: this should be at most a minor, not a grandmaster trait. Far to weak.
Suggested change: Change this to: blind foes that you weaken (3 seconds of blind, 10 seconds cooldown). This might make it a bit easier to survive being focused.

Skills:

1. Focus is easily the least played weapon on a necro, which I believe is mostly due to the inadequate second skill (spinal shivers). In fact, due to the very long cast time, this weapon skill is completely inferior to the chill of death trait in spites 10.

Suggestion: Reduce the cast time on spinal shivers to 3/4 of a second and make it a small aoe (180 radius) around the target (only triggers when you hit the target successfully). Keep chill of death as is.

2. Corrosive poison cloud (utility skill). This is currently never used. It is basically a marginally better version of shortbow 4 on thieves, which however has a 30 seconds cooldown.

Suggestion: Make this corrupt a boon on foes who enter or leave the area of effect (can only trigger once for each foe).

First I would love to hear Noscs opinion on the state of the Necromancer.

Yes, I think Necro needs some adjustments, but I don’t think he is the worst state of all professions.

Suggestions:
1.) Allow Necromancer to get healed in Deathshroud. Either increase Lifeforepool or Health.
2.) Every Necromancer should start with at least 10% Lifeforce after spawning in PvP.

Other ideas:

1. Chill.

Issue: In theory, this is a good soft cc, to which necros have ample access. What I find problematic is that it does not apply to initiative regeneration on thieves. The most heavily used heal on thieves (withdraw) also removes chill on a 15 second cooldwon.

Suggestion: make chill apply to initiative regeneration on thieves. This would make a necro somewhat less easily focused by a thief.

2. Rabid on necros.

Issue: Critical chance on a necro is currently largely wasted, unless you play power. The only trait profiting from it (aside from the never-used withering precision) is the adept in curses (apply 2 seconds of bleed on a critical hit, 66% chance).

Suggestion: Change the adept in curses from applying bleed to applying torment, keeping the overall damage and trigger chance. The purpose would be to apply more diverse conditions, making cleansing a bit more difficult. An alernative would be to introduce a trait corrupting a boon on a critical hit (with say a 10 to 15 seconds cooldown).

IMO Necro just needs a bit more combat mobility. Once focused, Necros have hardest time peeling off. While that’s understandable because they have death shroud, I think they would benefit from a leap. I’m hoping greatsword brings this to the table.

necro is not weak at all. the problem is just that everybody will focus the necro because he can be fatal in teamfights, way more than a condi ranger or a condi engi.

necro’s combat mobility is not the greatest that’s true and this is also the reason why many necros play it with double teleport.

so i hope the necro specialisation will change things, maybe a leap, maybe some vigour and hopefully different than condi/power necro.

TheGreatA.4192:

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them.

Which classes would you put in these sentences?

“______” are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them.

or

“______” are quite strong.

Swamurabi.7890:

TheGreatA.4192:

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them.

Which classes would you put in these sentences?

“______” are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them.

or

“______” are quite strong.

1. mesmers, power rangers, necros

2. war ele engi guard thief are strong on their own.

especially because classes like power rangers mesmers and necros can’t be left freecasting makes them the priority target. it’s not that they are weak…

Jekkt.6045:

Swamurabi.7890:

TheGreatA.4192:

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them.

Which classes would you put in these sentences?

“______” are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them.

or

“______” are quite strong.

1. mesmers, power rangers, necros

2. war ele engi guard thief are strong on their own.

especially because classes like power rangers mesmers and necros can’t be left freecasting makes them the priority target. it’s not that they are weak…

Are you sure about that? Because it just so happens that all 3 of those classes have weak defensive trait lines so they take offensive traits. They all have easy to interrupt heals and all have plenty of counterplay. Is it really because they are so offensively powerful? Or is it because they really can’t stand up to being focused? You have a much higher chance of getting a kill if you go after these classes than if you go after a cele meta class.

The point is, they are strong offensively but it’s not the full story.

@Jekkt – Necros are focused because they have the worse defense. Every time a necro is interrupted, you’ve just removed on average, over 65% of their defensive capabilities, that requires hitting a target to function.

I like to see the the other 7 classes spend just one day going into battle with nothing but 2 dodges every 10 seconds.

TheGreatA.4192:

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them. Its weaknesses are exposed if the enemy team is just allowed to effortlessly train the necro without paying a price.

I don’t think this is a valid argument anymore considering the best team in North America just crushed because their weakness (the necro) was exploited; they are all really good players.

I know Necromancers are strong, but they have the worst utility in the game to recover from missed/blocked attacks which leaves them vulnerable more than 50% of the time while fighting!

Teutos.8620:

First I would love to hear Noscs opinion on the state of the Necromancer.

Yes, I think Necro needs some adjustments, but I don’t think he is the worst state of all professions.

Suggestions:
1.) Allow Necromancer to get healed in Deathshroud. Either increase Lifeforepool or Health.
2.) Every Necromancer should start with at least 10% Lifeforce after spawning in PvP.

Many months ago I had an in-game mail conversation with Noscoc concerning regen in deathshroud. He responded: Regeneration in deathshroud would be a nice long-awaited step forward for Necromancers (the conversation was about actually making the boon Regeneration work in deathshroud as it currently does not).

Make autoattacks on scepter and staff faster. Tune the dps accordingly.
Make marks actually dodgeable not some generic animations that even if you see are not easy to avoid because they take effect before the animation.
Give necro more disengage potential. Some vigor, endurance regen, blocks, anything.

Tissitra.4153:

Other ideas:

1. Chill.

Issue: In theory, this is a good soft cc, to which necros have ample access. What I find problematic is that it does not apply to initiative regeneration on thieves. The most heavily used heal on thieves (withdraw) also removes chill on a 15 second cooldwon.

Suggestion: make chill apply to initiative regeneration on thieves. This would make a necro somewhat less easily focused by a thief.

2. Rabid on necros.

Issue: Critical chance on a necro is currently largely wasted, unless you play power. The only trait profiting from it (aside from the never-used withering precision) is the adept in curses (apply 2 seconds of bleed on a critical hit, 66% chance).

Suggestion: Change the adept in curses from applying bleed to applying torment, keeping the overall damage and trigger chance. The purpose would be to apply more diverse conditions, making cleansing a bit more difficult. An alernative would be to introduce a trait corrupting a boon on a critical hit (with say a 10 to 15 seconds cooldown).

You know why chill is unfair? Because it actually really messes up with eles. They get their attunement switch affected by chill, which can be deadly. Especially if you play fresh air, you don’t wanna see chill on your bar. They fixed it for thieves because it was too strong for initiative. Still doesn’t seem quite fair huh.

How is needing a team to support you or requiring good map awareness and positioning unique to the Necromancer? Every class needs to be paired up with complementary classes and every player needs to be aware of their surroundings. This argument is just as bad as the one that the reason there are so few Necromancers at these tournaments is because most Necromancers are baddies.

The class simply isn’t given enough/adequate tools to succeed. This puts an unfair burden on your team to carry you AND raises the skill floor of the class so the average player sees most engagements as an uphill battle. These issues are related and reflect poor game design more than a lack of player skill.

Necro is strong and viable. However it must be changed because it is frustrating to play currently.

The problem is that we have no self sustain and so the only specs are glass cannons. The problem with this is that necro can be counter specced. Vs 2 shout warriors and a dps guardian = you get owned. Vs 2 dd ele and 2 engis = you will rek face.

Necro is too easily hard countered so its self sustain should be increased by buffing traits which are incompatible with its dps traits. So blood magic traits znd death magi grandmaster traits need to offer build defining sustain.

i have seen people win 1v2 and almost win 1v3 fights on point with necro life-force/death shroud build, yet I have yet to see anyone play it in a tournament.

why is the tanky DS build not viable? serious question because necro is the class I’ve played the LEAST of any

Solstice.1097:

i have seen people win 1v2 and almost win 1v3 fights on point with necro life-force/death shroud build, yet I have yet to see anyone play it in a tournament.

why is the tanky DS build not viable? serious question because necro is the class I’ve played the LEAST of any

Cuz Blood & Death magic traitlines suck.

Well, my opinion on the current state of the necro should be obvious from the first post. Also, given the current representation of necros in high tier pvp (rapidly approaching zero), I think most people should agree the class has some big issues.

I should say that I don’t even main a necro. I WOULD like to play it a lot more than I currently do, but usually after 15 minutes of being punched around I hop back onto my mesmer.

Anyway, the purpose of the thread was actually to discuss what could be done. Frankly, I don’t think that necros will ever get a block, another teleport or access to vigor (at least not without the expansion). And this is actually OK, given the main idea of the class. However, in the current mobility zerker/boonspam cele meta necros would do much better if they had more soft cc and boon corruption.

Jelzouki.4128:

TheGreatA.4192:

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them. Its weaknesses are exposed if the enemy team is just allowed to effortlessly train the necro without paying a price.

I don’t think this is a valid argument anymore considering the best team in North America just crushed because their weakness (the necro) was exploited; they are all really good players.

I know Necromancers are strong, but they have the worst utility in the game to recover from missed/blocked attacks which leaves them vulnerable more than 50% of the time while fighting!

Their necro was a strength and a weakness.

The necro was their main output of damage, and allowed them to win 99% of the matches, but they faced a team of players who were able to shut him down. Perhaps they will need to figure out a way to protect the necro more, instead of replacing him. I saw a D/P thief and hammer guard constantly free-casting on the necro without anybody doing anything about it.

I believe a medi guard works better in protecting a necro than DD ele or engineer because his attacks are an instant threat which cannot be ignored (unlike the solid DPS & condi that celestial builds put out). Even a sword thief doesn’t really do the kind of damage to make an opponent back off from somebody. When the rest of the team only puts out a consistent but not over-whelming amount of DPS, the necro is an easy target to focus.

Maybe they would’ve done better with another engi, but we cannot know until they face oRNG again without the necro. The celestial engi certainly doesn’t put out a similar amount of damage. Abjured were also very unlucky to lose some of the matches that they did, so it’s not like the necro was being totally useless. They were leading by hundreds of points until the whole team made huge mistakes.

Solstice.1097:

i have seen people win 1v2 and almost win 1v3 fights on point with necro life-force/death shroud build, yet I have yet to see anyone play it in a tournament.

why is the tanky DS build not viable? serious question because necro is the class I’ve played the LEAST of any

Because it isn’t that good. Tanky DS requires 6 in SR to deal any decent damage, and 10 across Curses/Death Magic if they actually want to be tanky. They also have no team support, have bad mobility, and all kinds of other problems. The only reason they “won” a 1v2 is because the people they were against were garbage.

Fixing the glitchy wall teleports would help.

The fact that 3 classes can get from mid point to stillness in 3 seconds, while everybody else takes almost 10 is part of the reason why 2 of those 3 classes are in every single team.

But that’s not enough, necromancer needs some sort of scaling defense so that it can function in a 3v3, either that or to be godly OP in a 1v1.

Rule number 1- Moa the Necro
Rule number 2- Eat the Moa
Rule number 3- Repeate

I’m going to be honest, I think necros are in a good place and really don’t need any buffs, BUT, if you want to keep complaining and get them buffed I’m totally fine with that.

My reasoning:
*condi necro beats D/D 1v1, beats cele engi 1v1, and coupled with an engi or medi guard is extremely powerful
*condi necro provides peels, stomps, rezes, cleave, corrupts, can be in two places at once with wurm, shall I continue?
*Power necro has Fantastic 1v1 capabilities, can take D/D, can take Shout warrior, can take medi guard, can take cele engi, AND has an “I WIN” button that potentially turns entire fights around (cough, lich)

ONE THING THAT DOES NEED TO BE DONE THOUGH, necro is ONLY good when they have SOME deathshroud, PLEASE give us at LEAST 20% DS off start in SPVP

But if there are a whole bunch of horrible necros out that who get slaughtered because they think it should be as easy as the face roll cele classes and want it to get buffed, go for it, that won’t hurt me :P

Firebird.8324:

I’m going to be honest, I think necros are in a good place and really don’t need any buffs, BUT, if you want to keep complaining and get them buffed I’m totally fine with that.

My reasoning:
*condi necro beats D/D 1v1, beats cele engi 1v1, and coupled with an engi or medi guard is extremely powerful
*condi necro provides peels, stomps, rezes, cleave, corrupts, can be in two places at once with wurm, shall I continue?
*Power necro has Fantastic 1v1 capabilities, can take D/D, can take Shout warrior, can take medi guard, can take cele engi, AND has an “I WIN” button that potentially turns entire fights around (cough, lich)

ONE THING THAT DOES NEED TO BE DONE THOUGH, necro is ONLY good when they have SOME deathshroud, PLEASE give us at LEAST 20% DS off start in SPVP

But if there are a whole bunch of horrible necros out that who get slaughtered because they think it should be as easy as the face roll cele classes and want it to get buffed, go for it, that won’t hurt me :P

d/d ele is a 50/50 match up at best. Cele engi is at most 60/40 in the necros favor. Condition necro doesn’t provide stomps, especially not now that the fitg trait is dead (blowing two stun breaks to stomp someone is almost never worth it). They are probably also the worst class for rezzing (unless you use plague for it), and their cleave damage on downed foes isn’t that high either (although poison on chillblains is strong). LOL at being in two places at once, necros are the worst rotaters in the game.

Power and condition necros provide the same role of blowing up teams in outnumbered fights. Both builds become strongest when you have one more then the other team in a fight. Lich is great, but has plenty of counters and certainly isn’t an IWIN button against good players.

Cele engi and ele most certainly aren’t faceroll. You can almost always tell the difference between good and bad players on those classes.

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

I’m going to be honest, I think necros are in a good place and really don’t need any buffs, BUT, if you want to keep complaining and get them buffed I’m totally fine with that.

My reasoning:
*condi necro beats D/D 1v1, beats cele engi 1v1, and coupled with an engi or medi guard is extremely powerful
*condi necro provides peels, stomps, rezes, cleave, corrupts, can be in two places at once with wurm, shall I continue?
*Power necro has Fantastic 1v1 capabilities, can take D/D, can take Shout warrior, can take medi guard, can take cele engi, AND has an “I WIN” button that potentially turns entire fights around (cough, lich)

ONE THING THAT DOES NEED TO BE DONE THOUGH, necro is ONLY good when they have SOME deathshroud, PLEASE give us at LEAST 20% DS off start in SPVP

But if there are a whole bunch of horrible necros out that who get slaughtered because they think it should be as easy as the face roll cele classes and want it to get buffed, go for it, that won’t hurt me :P

d/d ele is a 50/50 match up at best. Cele engi is at most 60/40 in the necros favor. Condition necro doesn’t provide stomps, especially not now that the fitg trait is dead (blowing two stun breaks to stomp someone is almost never worth it). They are probably also the worst class for rezzing (unless you use plague for it), and their cleave damage on downed foes isn’t that high either (although poison on chillblains is strong). LOL at being in two places at once, necros are the worst rotaters in the game.

Power and condition necros provide the same role of blowing up teams in outnumbered fights. Both builds become strongest when you have one more then the other team in a fight. Lich is great, but has plenty of counters and certainly isn’t an IWIN button against good players.

Cele engi and ele most certainly aren’t faceroll. You can almost always tell the difference between good and bad players on those classes.

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

Firebird.8324:

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

For one, stop insulting the whole necro community, it’s rude and makes you look like a childish kitten. Also, if necros really had such strong matchups against those classes they would be on every team considering those 3 builds make up 60% of most teams. Seeing as they aren’t on every team, it is fair to assume those matchups aren’t as good as you think. Also, wurm is probably the worst utility port in the game, with a 1.5 second cast time and the same cooldown as lightning flash. Also, it is well known necros are slow rotaters due to lack of consistent swiftness, and no on weapon movement skills. Certainly one of the last classes people would describe as in two places at once.

I also wouldn’t describe the elites as game changing, lich definetely forces the issue, and plagues is a very strong debuff, but they can be countered by good players quite easily. Your last sentence fragment is just anecdotal evidence about a team comp you had, and doesn’t really mean anything.

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

For one, stop insulting the whole necro community, it’s rude and makes you look like a childish kitten. Also, if necros really had such strong matchups against those classes they would be on every team considering those 3 builds make up 60% of most teams. Seeing as they aren’t on every team, it is fair to assume those matchups aren’t as good as you think. Also, wurm is probably the worst utility port in the game, with a 1.5 second cast time and the same cooldown as lightning flash. Also, it is well known necros are slow rotaters due to lack of consistent swiftness, and no on weapon movement skills. Certainly one of the last classes people would describe as in two places at once.

I also wouldn’t describe the elites as game changing, lich definetely forces the issue, and plagues is a very strong debuff, but they can be countered by good players quite easily. Your last sentence fragment is just anecdotal evidence about a team comp you had, and doesn’t really mean anything.

Buddy, I run warhorn which by default gives 20 sec of swiftness on a 30 second colddown and can be traited for 100% uptime, if u take warhorn and spectral walk u have 150% uptime on swiftness, so yes necros can rotate plenty fast. Also, there are MANY bad necros out there, I offer support if needed, contact me ingame, my name is below.

TheGreatA.4192:

Jelzouki.4128:

TheGreatA.4192:

Necros are quite strong, they just need a solid team around them. Its weaknesses are exposed if the enemy team is just allowed to effortlessly train the necro without paying a price.

I don’t think this is a valid argument anymore considering the best team in North America just crushed because their weakness (the necro) was exploited; they are all really good players.

I know Necromancers are strong, but they have the worst utility in the game to recover from missed/blocked attacks which leaves them vulnerable more than 50% of the time while fighting!

Their necro was a strength and a weakness.

The necro was their main output of damage, and allowed them to win 99% of the matches, but they faced a team of players who were able to shut him down. Perhaps they will need to figure out a way to protect the necro more, instead of replacing him. I saw a D/P thief and hammer guard constantly free-casting on the necro without anybody doing anything about it.

I believe a medi guard works better in protecting a necro than DD ele or engineer because his attacks are an instant threat which cannot be ignored (unlike the solid DPS & condi that celestial builds put out). Even a sword thief doesn’t really do the kind of damage to make an opponent back off from somebody. When the rest of the team only puts out a consistent but not over-whelming amount of DPS, the necro is an easy target to focus.

Maybe they would’ve done better with another engi, but we cannot know until they face oRNG again without the necro. The celestial engi certainly doesn’t put out a similar amount of damage. Abjured were also very unlucky to lose some of the matches that they did, so it’s not like the necro was being totally useless. They were leading by hundreds of points until the whole team made huge mistakes.

No matter what the issue is, you can’t deny necromancers have the worst recovery-utility in the game, and if you can’t see that then this conversation is over.

Firebird.8324:

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

For one, stop insulting the whole necro community, it’s rude and makes you look like a childish kitten. Also, if necros really had such strong matchups against those classes they would be on every team considering those 3 builds make up 60% of most teams. Seeing as they aren’t on every team, it is fair to assume those matchups aren’t as good as you think. Also, wurm is probably the worst utility port in the game, with a 1.5 second cast time and the same cooldown as lightning flash. Also, it is well known necros are slow rotaters due to lack of consistent swiftness, and no on weapon movement skills. Certainly one of the last classes people would describe as in two places at once.

I also wouldn’t describe the elites as game changing, lich definetely forces the issue, and plagues is a very strong debuff, but they can be countered by good players quite easily. Your last sentence fragment is just anecdotal evidence about a team comp you had, and doesn’t really mean anything.

Buddy, I run warhorn which by default gives 20 sec of swiftness on a 30 second colddown and can be traited for 100% uptime, if u take warhorn and spectral walk u have 150% uptime on swiftness, so yes necros can rotate plenty fast. Also, there are MANY bad necros out there, I offer support if needed, contact me ingame, my name is below.

You see you claim power necro beats D/D ele 1v1 yet you and you’re other power necro always lose your d/d ele 1v1s in tournaments. Stop glorifying yourself, or at least fix the tone you’re using, you sound conceded and ignorant.

Firebird.8324:

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

For one, stop insulting the whole necro community, it’s rude and makes you look like a childish kitten. Also, if necros really had such strong matchups against those classes they would be on every team considering those 3 builds make up 60% of most teams. Seeing as they aren’t on every team, it is fair to assume those matchups aren’t as good as you think. Also, wurm is probably the worst utility port in the game, with a 1.5 second cast time and the same cooldown as lightning flash. Also, it is well known necros are slow rotaters due to lack of consistent swiftness, and no on weapon movement skills. Certainly one of the last classes people would describe as in two places at once.

I also wouldn’t describe the elites as game changing, lich definetely forces the issue, and plagues is a very strong debuff, but they can be countered by good players quite easily. Your last sentence fragment is just anecdotal evidence about a team comp you had, and doesn’t really mean anything.

Buddy, I run warhorn which by default gives 20 sec of swiftness on a 30 second colddown and can be traited for 100% uptime, if u take warhorn and spectral walk u have 150% uptime on swiftness, so yes necros can rotate plenty fast. Also, there are MANY bad necros out there, I offer support if needed, contact me ingame, my name is below.

So you don’t address most of the points cause you know I’m right on them. Also, that high swiftness uptime you have required far more investment then other home point defending or other far point assaulting classes have to sacrifice. Warhorn can be used for swiftness, but it is a rare day when you use spectral walk for the swiftness and not as a stunbreak. Also, your still a slower rotater even with all that swiftness than all the other roamers. Shoutbow has swiftness and sword 2, engi has perma swiftness plus jump shot, ele has fgs, rtl, burning speed, swiftness, and thief has ports for days. Even with that huge investment of a utility and an offhand your still a slower rotater than all the meta classes. Also, there are no more bad necros then their are bad any other classes (statistics will support that), it’s just other classes are more beginner friendly because they have all the things necros lack like passive defense.

Jelzouki.4128:

Firebird.8324:

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

For one, stop insulting the whole necro community, it’s rude and makes you look like a childish kitten. Also, if necros really had such strong matchups against those classes they would be on every team considering those 3 builds make up 60% of most teams. Seeing as they aren’t on every team, it is fair to assume those matchups aren’t as good as you think. Also, wurm is probably the worst utility port in the game, with a 1.5 second cast time and the same cooldown as lightning flash. Also, it is well known necros are slow rotaters due to lack of consistent swiftness, and no on weapon movement skills. Certainly one of the last classes people would describe as in two places at once.

I also wouldn’t describe the elites as game changing, lich definetely forces the issue, and plagues is a very strong debuff, but they can be countered by good players quite easily. Your last sentence fragment is just anecdotal evidence about a team comp you had, and doesn’t really mean anything.

Buddy, I run warhorn which by default gives 20 sec of swiftness on a 30 second colddown and can be traited for 100% uptime, if u take warhorn and spectral walk u have 150% uptime on swiftness, so yes necros can rotate plenty fast. Also, there are MANY bad necros out there, I offer support if needed, contact me ingame, my name is below.

You see you claim power necro beats D/D ele 1v1 yet you and you’re other power necro always lose your d/d ele 1v1s in tournaments. Stop glorifying yourself, or at least fix the tone you’re using, you sound conceded and ignorant.

HIT LOCUST SWARM AND LICH, BAM, u can take any ele 1v1 (except s/f cele perhaps) doesn’t take an expert and if you would like tips on beating cele ele 1v1 contact me in game

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

zapv.8051:

Firebird.8324:

HEY, if you’re having trouble with necromancer and you need ANET to buff it, im NOT against that, I’d like to Actually be overpowered like dhummfire days, but don’t try and validate ur opinion of necro’s being bad Because they have a good chance of beating shout war, cele ele, cele engi. They have game changing elites and YES they can be in two places at once with wurm, we used to have rip watch home and mid with condi necro while we assaulted far, worked GREAT.

For one, stop insulting the whole necro community, it’s rude and makes you look like a childish kitten. Also, if necros really had such strong matchups against those classes they would be on every team considering those 3 builds make up 60% of most teams. Seeing as they aren’t on every team, it is fair to assume those matchups aren’t as good as you think. Also, wurm is probably the worst utility port in the game, with a 1.5 second cast time and the same cooldown as lightning flash. Also, it is well known necros are slow rotaters due to lack of consistent swiftness, and no on weapon movement skills. Certainly one of the last classes people would describe as in two places at once.

I also wouldn’t describe the elites as game changing, lich definetely forces the issue, and plagues is a very strong debuff, but they can be countered by good players quite easily. Your last sentence fragment is just anecdotal evidence about a team comp you had, and doesn’t really mean anything.

Buddy, I run warhorn which by default gives 20 sec of swiftness on a 30 second colddown and can be traited for 100% uptime, if u take warhorn and spectral walk u have 150% uptime on swiftness, so yes necros can rotate plenty fast. Also, there are MANY bad necros out there, I offer support if needed, contact me ingame, my name is below.

So you don’t address most of the points cause you know I’m right on them. Also, that high swiftness uptime you have required far more investment then other home point defending or other far point assaulting classes have to sacrifice. Warhorn can be used for swiftness, but it is a rare day when you use spectral walk for the swiftness and not as a stunbreak. Also, your still a slower rotater even with all that swiftness than all the other roamers. Shoutbow has swiftness and sword 2, engi has perma swiftness plus jump shot, ele has fgs, rtl, burning speed, swiftness, and thief has ports for days. Even with that huge investment of a utility and an offhand your still a slower rotater than all the meta classes. Also, there are no more bad necros then their are bad any other classes (statistics will support that), it’s just other classes are more beginner friendly because they have all the things necros lack like passive defense.

how much swiftness does medi guard have? oh ya that’s right, also i’m not investing anything extra, I find warhorn to be standard, the interrupt is used to take out guard heal, warrior shield, engi shield, etc. Also, combo that locust swarm with lich/DS and it is very hard to blind you and takes of agies that your opponent may have

Also, I don’t roam, I don’t push 1v1s I stay in the teamfight and move with the teamfight as a necro should.

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader. Maybe you can also address why necros are literally non-existent in high tide games, esp in the eu

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

Just to bring this form back to the point, I believe necro is fine and does NOT need buffed. If Anet decides to buff it I’m not against it, being OP is awesome.

Just one question, Firebird.

What do you do during the 3 minutes between Lich Forms?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Just one question, Firebird.

What do you do during the 3 minutes between Lich Forms?

Kill everything. There are solid cases and rules to using lich form:

*Never lich in defense
*Never lich at less then 80% health
*Try to lich with locust swarm on

It is only viable to lich 1v1 if the team has mes/teef, because then lich would be countered in a midfight. In the case where you plan to lich 1v1 it is a good idea against engies, shoutbows, turret engis (watch reflects) eles, etc. Just like an engi will push 1v1s when crate is available a necro can push 1v1s when lich is available, but ONLY if it will be severely countered in a midfight.

Also, this should be obvious, but power necro is extraordinarily strong without lich, in fact if some teams are really, really, anti lich you could bring plague instead as a defense measure. Your role as a necromancer is to end 2v1s quickly, put down cleave with wells and dagger, give AOE counterpressure, and singletarget damage, there is so much at your disposal it’s crazy, so, all in all, lich is Not everything.

In fact, considering the amount of time without lich (due to high cd) I get far more kills without lich than with. Oh and you made it sound like power necros blow lich every 3 minutes, that’s just silly, there is a time and place for everything.

Also, if you just want straight up power necro tips wisp me in game, in the meantime please keep telling anet to buff necro so we can be overpowered

Necro is in bad spot and every decent player knows that. There are 3 problems.

1st class design witch completely doesn’t fits to current game mode where u need mobility, dmg, sustain, team support witch necro lack (besides dmg ofc) .

2nd thing is the main class mechanic witch is death shroud witch counter our own traits , sigils , runes , we cant be healed in ds , regen is not working etc.

3rd thing is that a lot of necros problems comes from other classes having access to so much condi clear , ccs , healing , mobility . For past year every single class was getting small buffs here and there that actually now are paying back but necro got basically nothing , ofc we see some changes here and there but there are completely useless.

My bigest concern atm is the expansion witch will propably give some nice stuff to every class but necro is getting melee GS and everyone know that necro in melee cant handle pressure at all just because he lack that basically every other dps class can get witch is blocks, evades , invu , disengage skills . Ofc we need to w8 for the expanion and i hope i am wrong.

Firebird.8324:

Just to bring this form back to the point, I believe necro is not fine and does need to be fixed. If Anet decides to fix it no one should be against it, being fine is minimal.

You buff what’s fine to OP,you fix what’s worthless to fine,you’re welcome. I am not talking about the whole profession.

I haven’t played a lot of Necromancer, but I think I have a solid idea to balance them out a little better.

Gain unlimited vigor while low on Life Force. Threshold to trigger: 15% (45 sec CD on re-application)

I’ve noticed when a necro dies once, it can cripple them for the rest of the game because they are re-entering into an outnumbered fight without any life force – they often just get bursted right back down before they had a chance to build any up! Some simple vigor might help them build up at least 15% life force more easily.

Forsaker.9213:

Necro is in bad spot and every decent player knows that. There are 3 problems.

1st class design witch completely doesn’t fits to current game mode where u need mobility, dmg, sustain, team support witch necro lack (besides dmg ofc) .

2nd thing is the main class mechanic witch is death shroud witch counter our own traits , sigils , runes , we cant be healed in ds , regen is not working etc.

3rd thing is that a lot of necros problems comes from other classes having access to so much condi clear , ccs , healing , mobility . For past year every single class was getting small buffs here and there that actually now are paying back but necro got basically nothing , ofc we see some changes here and there but there are completely useless.

My bigest concern atm is the expansion witch will propably give some nice stuff to every class but necro is getting melee GS and everyone know that necro in melee cant handle pressure at all just because he lack that basically every other dps class can get witch is blocks, evades , invu , disengage skills . Ofc we need to w8 for the expanion and i hope i am wrong.

Yeaaaa, necro is So horrible, no holes at all in what this guy says, Please buff us oh great Anet

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

I was quoting the old leaderboard in solo queue which is how to judge individual skill. You win rate was 53% and you were ranked 491. Pretty sure if you were as good as you say you are then you would of won more than 53% of your games and would of actually be rated highly.

If you want to prove yourself in a team as a team player then fine. But I don’t think you have done that either. Your team gets trashed by even teams in NA which are not close to the level of the EU top teams and of NA’s 1/2 good teams.

So you have proved nothing. You haven’t proved your individual skill in solo queue. And you haven’t proved yourself as some sort of elite team player. Those are the two avenues in ALL games as to how you prove yourself…..either solo (for the solo inclined player) or part of a settled team (as for the team inclined player).

Which is fine. But dont come in here like some dude who can talk down to everyone as if you are some sort of pro. Everyone deserves their say. It is laughable you talk down to people when you have proven nothing ever. Get a grip of yourself dude.

Solstice.1097:

I haven’t played a lot of Necromancer, but I think I have a solid idea to balance them out a little better.

Gain unlimited vigor while low on Life Force. Threshold to trigger: 15% (45 sec CD on re-application)

I’ve noticed when a necro dies once, it can cripple them for the rest of the game because they are re-entering into an outnumbered fight without any life force – they often just get bursted right back down before they had a chance to build any up! Some simple vigor might help them build up at least 15% life force more easily.

You can also die with life force and be fine. This happens all the time when the 50% spectral armor procs and DS is on CD, you go down, get stomped out, and rez with 70% LF

Also, I will take back something I mentioned in a previous post, the Blood Magic line is completely unviable because healing does not have an effect when in deathshroud, that should be fixed, as that is an entire trait line that is 100% useless.