Guild Wars 2

style.6173:

So many of you whine too much. PvP is in a much better place than it was 6 months ago. Be happy this isn’t WvW which does suck.

PvP just needs two things:
1. Better matchmaking
2. A better balance team (that said, the meta is a lot better than the previous bunker Mesmer one)

Trading poop for garbage. Sure, it’s… better in some ways, but it’s still horrible.

I think esports is necessary. It tells us what builds needs a nerf or not.

Not in the slightest, because some classes are overpowered in PvP matches, while these strengths are meaningless in the actual game, while others are very weak in PvP, and so get buffs, but these buffs make them OP in the PvE content. Balancing for one is meaningless to achieving balance in the other.

Please don’t talk again my dear Espurt. The whole game should continue to be balanced around the 350-500 radius circle game mode.

emikochan.8504:

Anet already said the ROI on the esports investments has been huge. So you’re just wrong.

That’s just pr talk, and I can remember Colin being slightly defensive.

If they were serious about the competitive side then they would be less defensive and get back into the pits to fix professions, fix up many weapons and skills and traits, develop actual roles and create better maps with different game modes.

Game went “play for free” and conversion to “buy to play” was poor. The xpac was the only saving grace. Spvp earnings are a drop in the bucket and nothing notable was mentioned in the conference call.

Popularity for this game is low, it will never be better than it is today. Other pvp game options are on the horizon and anet is way too slow with development to keep interest in their game. This is a pve game with pve professions, and will not garner any real respect from most pvp minded players.

Pretending something is good won’t make it good.

The fact that the best two teams in the finals yesterday had exactly the same team composition illustrates the problems this game has perfectly. People are not really motivated to compose their own teambuild because soon after a game-update/patch its already clear which builds are going to be good and which builds not. The creation of a so-called meta is too simple and too fast.

This has everything to do with the lack of appropriate traits, utilities and weapon skills. For example: who needs a trait that triggers when taking falling damage? No one, so the other 2 traits are the 2 options that are left behind. Who uses necro’s axe, while all of its skills are mediocre? No one will, because scepter and dagger are better. These are just 2 examples of narrowing down the possibility to create different builds and playstyles that are or might be effective enough in pvp.

In my opinion, Anet needs to do everything to create a more diverse PvP environment so it won’t be boring to play OR watch. Think about some dramatic changes they could make, for example; why does the race of the character not have any influence on its abilities in pvp? Has it been a good step to make players only choose 3 out of the 6 traitlines, instead of the old system where you could choose traits from all different traitlines? We need diversity! I don’t want to know exactly what build someone is playing before I even fought against him. It should not be an objective to try to give every player or team exactly the same possibilities and try to balance everything out. The trials so far to obtain a good balance have failed. Leave that to shootergames.

HeadCrowned.6834:

The fact that the best two teams in the finals yesterday had exactly the same team composition illustrates the problems this game has perfectly. People are not really motivated to compose their own teambuild because soon after a game-update/patch its already clear which builds are going to be good and which builds not. The creation of a so-called meta is too simple and too fast.

This has everything to do with the lack of appropriate traits, utilities and weapon skills. For example: who needs a trait that triggers when taking falling damage? No one, so the other 2 traits are the 2 options that are left behind. Who uses necro’s axe, while all of its skills are mediocre? No one will, because scepter and dagger are better. These are just 2 examples of narrowing down the possibility to create different builds and playstyles that are or might be effective enough in pvp.

In my opinion, Anet needs to do everything to create a more diverse PvP environment so it won’t be boring to play OR watch. Think about some dramatic changes they could make, for example; why does the race of the character not have any influence on its abilities in pvp? Has it been a good step to make players only choose 3 out of the 6 traitlines, instead of the old system where you could choose traits from all different traitlines? We need diversity! I don’t want to know exactly what build someone is playing before I even fought against him. It should not be an objective to try to give every player or team exactly the same possibilities and try to balance everything out. The trials so far to obtain a good balance have failed. Leave that to shootergames.

They had the same classes, but there was a difference in skills/traits used(don’t remember about weapons). Also there’s wvw and pve as well. A trait might not be used in pvp but used somewhere else and race not having an impact is a pretty good decision.

HeadCrowned.6834:

The fact that the best two teams in the finals yesterday had exactly the same team composition illustrates the problems this game has perfectly. People are not really motivated to compose their own teambuild because soon after a game-update/patch its already clear which builds are going to be good and which builds not. The creation of a so-called meta is too simple and too fast.

This has everything to do with the lack of appropriate traits, utilities and weapon skills. For example: who needs a trait that triggers when taking falling damage? No one, so the other 2 traits are the 2 options that are left behind. Who uses necro’s axe, while all of its skills are mediocre? No one will, because scepter and dagger are better. These are just 2 examples of narrowing down the possibility to create different builds and playstyles that are or might be effective enough in pvp.

In my opinion, Anet needs to do everything to create a more diverse PvP environment so it won’t be boring to play OR watch. Think about some dramatic changes they could make, for example; why does the race of the character not have any influence on its abilities in pvp? Has it been a good step to make players only choose 3 out of the 6 traitlines, instead of the old system where you could choose traits from all different traitlines? We need diversity! I don’t want to know exactly what build someone is playing before I even fought against him. It should not be an objective to try to give every player or team exactly the same possibilities and try to balance everything out. The trials so far to obtain a good balance have failed. Leave that to shootergames.

You just don’t get it ?? Do you. Even if they HD diversity, most players would always end up using the same OP builds. It has nothing to do with balance or whatever you want to call it it’s human nature. The way th3 system is setup gives you a choice to create diverse builds; people don’t do it because there is always one build which is going to be stronger than others. It’s the same very where, on league of legebdary or Dota peoplease uses the same build over and over depending on were they are going.

E-Sports is a waste, there’s not so much skill involved in the matches, they had the same team composition and there wasn’t any Thief or Warriors, but tons of Necros and Revs with the easiest rotations. I mean sure, new people will be amazed, but when they’ll play I don’t think so, sooner or later people are gonna leave…

posthumecaver.6473:

It is downgrade because it dictates what I should play, not what I want to play, for a thing that %95 of the population does not care.

And that is Anet fault. I used to play GW1, MTG, LOL, and so on competitively, i would not say i was a pro, but i cared. What did those games have in common? there was a real strive to balance the game and they where not blatantly broken. GW2 has been broken beyond belief from day 1, i just dont care any more.

Ithilwen.1529:

Those “explanations” were excuses for using a gimmick to farm pvp. I’ll mention here that anet gave me 5 separate demerits on the same post for daring to disagree with Chaith.

This game is customized for the pro league players and they get special priveleges. That’s a sure way to create an inbalance and ultimately, to fail.

Pfffft, you think Toker liked giving up his thief to play Revenant? Or how Nos was forced to play bunker Mesmer?

I liked playing thief as well as my ele, but Revenant is just easier and significantly more forgiving.

Here is what is going on: Whoever is in charge of combat design, IS BAD.

There is nothing more to it.

lol, I remember this same crowd scolding Anet for ignoring eSports.

“If only they would put 10k/year towards the prize pot, this game would live up to potential, new players flock, etc, etc…”

With some people, you can never get it right.

Amineo.8951:

E-Sports is a waste, there’s not so much skill involved in the matches, they had the same team composition and there wasn’t any Thief or Warriors, but tons of Necros and Revs with the easiest rotations. I mean sure, new people will be amazed, but when they’ll play I don’t think so, sooner or later people are gonna leave…

Says the amber… why would anyone take or thief or warriir if they don’t like them?? It doesn’t matter how u cut there are 9 profession and at least 4 always be left out.

Apolo.5942:

posthumecaver.6473:

It is downgrade because it dictates what I should play, not what I want to play, for a thing that %95 of the population does not care.

And that is Anet fault. I used to play GW1, MTG, LOL, and so on competitively, i would not say i was a pro, but i cared. What did those games have in common? there was a real strive to balance the game and they where not blatantly broken. GW2 has been broken beyond belief from day 1, i just dont care any more.

And lol is not broken?? They even have tier for that matters. Strng tier god tier ect… or are just being selectively biased against GW2??

Nova Stiker.8396:

Ithilwen.1529:

Those “explanations” were excuses for using a gimmick to farm pvp. I’ll mention here that anet gave me 5 separate demerits on the same post for daring to disagree with Chaith.

This game is customized for the pro league players and they get special priveleges. That’s a sure way to create an inbalance and ultimately, to fail.

Pfffft, you think Toker liked giving up his thief to play Revenant? Or how Nos was forced to play bunker Mesmer?

I liked playing thief as well as my ele, but Revenant is just easier and significantly more forgiving.

Here is what is going on: Whoever is in charge of combat design, IS BAD.

There is nothing more to it.

Bad for what?? For allowing other professions to make it into the meta?? Is there something that I am not understanding?? So your barometer of a good meta is having thieves or warrior in the game?? The combat developer are doing a GREAT JOB. Why? Asking 99.9% of new players why drew them into the game? Their answer never changes : The combat system/mechs .

Fivedawgs.4267:

Amineo.8951:

E-Sports is a waste, there’s not so much skill involved in the matches, they had the same team composition and there wasn’t any Thief or Warriors, but tons of Necros and Revs with the easiest rotations. I mean sure, new people will be amazed, but when they’ll play I don’t think so, sooner or later people are gonna leave…

Says the amber… why would anyone take or thief or warriir if they don’t like them?? It doesn’t matter how u cut there are 9 profession and at least 4 always be left out.

Apolo.5942:

posthumecaver.6473:

It is downgrade because it dictates what I should play, not what I want to play, for a thing that %95 of the population does not care.

And that is Anet fault. I used to play GW1, MTG, LOL, and so on competitively, i would not say i was a pro, but i cared. What did those games have in common? there was a real strive to balance the game and they where not blatantly broken. GW2 has been broken beyond belief from day 1, i just dont care any more.

And lol is not broken?? They even have tier for that matters. Strng tier god tier ect… or are just being selectively biased against GW2??

I’m Emerald btw but who cares since you grinded your poor legend rank by abusing MMR and bunker meta, am I right? Also why would people don’t take what they like? Yup, that’s one issue in PvP.

Ohoni.6057:

I think esports is necessary. It tells us what builds needs a nerf or not.

Not in the slightest, because some classes are overpowered in PvP matches, while these strengths are meaningless in the actual game, while others are very weak in PvP, and so get buffs, but these buffs make them OP in the PvE content. Balancing for one is meaningless to achieving balance in the other.

Esport Leagues have shown the highest potential a class can have on a game. Random SoloQ Heroes have shown how easy a class’s effectiveness can be in lower tiers. Ranked Leagues, a mixed of competitive and casuals, show more or less where balances lie.
Every game has this trinity.

Anet needs to completely seperate PvE from PvP. Nerfing Symbol dmg multiplier to 10% on Guard in PvP because it was OP in Pve? Are you serious Devs?

Saiyan.1704:

Ohoni.6057:

I think esports is necessary. It tells us what builds needs a nerf or not.

Not in the slightest, because some classes are overpowered in PvP matches, while these strengths are meaningless in the actual game, while others are very weak in PvP, and so get buffs, but these buffs make them OP in the PvE content. Balancing for one is meaningless to achieving balance in the other.

Esport Leagues have shown the highest potential a class can have on a game. Random SoloQ Heroes have shown how easy a class’s effectiveness can be in lower tiers. Ranked Leagues, a mixed of competitive and casuals, show more or less where balances lie.
Every game has this trinity.

Anet needs to completely seperate PvE from PvP. Nerfing Symbol dmg multiplier to 10% on Guard in PvP because it was OP in Pve? Are you serious Devs?

Lol at stuff being OP in pve, Anet shouldn’t separate pvp from pve or wvw for that matter. I’d learn to adapt guys!! separating both mode would make it harder I’d not impossible for pve er to transition ot pvp or wvw or vice versa. I had to have to relearn my entire class just because I wanted to farm gold. And finally, some skills have different effects in pve.

Fivedawgs.4267:

And lol is not broken?? They even have tier for that matters. Strng tier god tier ect… or are just being selectively biased against GW2??

No, its a matter of proportion, lol has now what over 70+ playable characters, there are bound to some marginally stronger than others and it is mostly due to a rock papper scissors situation where you counter what you expect to run into the most.

In contrast GW2 has 9 clases, not even double digits, and of those there are a constant 2 or 3 meta builds that obliterate every thing that comes their way.

So no, i not biased against GW2, but you are willfully ignorant it seems.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Saiyan.1704:

Ohoni.6057:

I think esports is necessary. It tells us what builds needs a nerf or not.

Not in the slightest, because some classes are overpowered in PvP matches, while these strengths are meaningless in the actual game, while others are very weak in PvP, and so get buffs, but these buffs make them OP in the PvE content. Balancing for one is meaningless to achieving balance in the other.

Esport Leagues have shown the highest potential a class can have on a game. Random SoloQ Heroes have shown how easy a class’s effectiveness can be in lower tiers. Ranked Leagues, a mixed of competitive and casuals, show more or less where balances lie.
Every game has this trinity.

Anet needs to completely seperate PvE from PvP. Nerfing Symbol dmg multiplier to 10% on Guard in PvP because it was OP in Pve? Are you serious Devs?

Lol at stuff being OP in pve, Anet shouldn’t separate pvp from pve or wvw for that matter. I’d learn to adapt guys!! separating both mode would make it harder I’d not impossible for pve er to transition ot pvp or wvw or vice versa. I had to have to relearn my entire class just because I wanted to farm gold. And finally, some skills have different effects in pve.

I’m not talking about an entire change of a skill’s mechanical effects. Strictly numbers here. What’s “op” vs stationary npc critters is hardly op against players with a brain. Symbolic Avenger’s 20% dmg multiplier getting nerfed to 10% was just 1 example of “too op in pve, nerf!”

Anet should never stop spending on esports. It is probably one of the only things I get hyped for in game now, especially after HoT was a bit of a disappointment for me with how short the story was, so as the story is all I care about in pve, I probably will not get hyped for living world to start again either. Watching the esports events also inspires me to play pvp. Up until the pro league started I had not played pvp for months, now I play every day at least 5 games especially with how awesome the finals were. I am sure it has the same effect on others too, meaning if they stopped the pro league, a lot less people would play pvp. If Anet do stop esports (which to be honest I don’t see happening) it would be the first decision about the game that they would have made that I would quite literally hate.
As for the people saying how all the pro league player get to decide what happens with the game, even if that was true, isn’t that a good thing? They have far more knowledge about pvp than an average player and therefore will improve the game much more than if Anet took advice only from the average players.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Apolo.5942:

Fivedawgs.4267:

And lol is not broken?? They even have tier for that matters. Strng tier god tier ect… or are just being selectively biased against GW2??

No, its a matter of proportion, lol has now what over 70+ playable characters, there are bound to some marginally stronger than others and it is mostly due to a rock papper scissors situation where you counter what you expect to run into the most.

In contrast GW2 has 9 clases, not even double digits, and of those there are a constant 2 or 3 meta builds that obliterate every thing that comes their way.

So no, i not biased against GW2, but you are willfully ignorant it seems.

Willfully ignorant?? Ah how nice of you, but let me ask you this if Lol dint have the ability to ban , out of those 70 toons, how many do you think we would have seen during the world?? Or better yet if Lol didn’t have a system where each team cant pick the same character, how many profession we would have seen at the world’s? ?? Uhm??

So this has nothing to do with classes/ balance; it just that Riot, due to their large pool of players and characters, can implement rules that Anet can’t. Had Riot not had those rules, their world’s would totally mirror ours.

On that point, it’s funny seeing people calling Anet lazy for removing amulets or preventing class stacking when Riot has been banning entire classes for quite some time.

Saiyan.1704:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Apolo.5942:

Fivedawgs.4267:

And lol is not broken?? They even have tier for that matters. Strng tier god tier ect… or are just being selectively biased against GW2??

No, its a matter of proportion, lol has now what over 70+ playable characters, there are bound to some marginally stronger than others and it is mostly due to a rock papper scissors situation where you counter what you expect to run into the most.

In contrast GW2 has 9 clases, not even double digits, and of those there are a constant 2 or 3 meta builds that obliterate every thing that comes their way.

So no, i not biased against GW2, but you are willfully ignorant it seems.

Willfully ignorant?? Ah how nice of you, but let me ask you this if Lol dint have the ability to ban , out of those 70 toons, how many do you think we would have seen during the world?? Or better yet if Lol didn’t have a system where each team cant pick the same character, how many profession we would have seen at the world’s? ?? Uhm??

So this has nothing to do with classes/ balance; it just that Riot, due to their large pool of players and characters, can implement rules that Anet can’t. Had Riot not had those rules, their world’s would totally mirror ours.

On that point, it’s funny seeing people calling Anet lazy for removing amulets or preventing class stacking when Riot has been banning entire classes for quite some time.

^^this … and they say they aren’t biased.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

They had the same classes, but there was a difference in skills/traits used(don’t remember about weapons). Also there’s wvw and pve as well. A trait might not be used in pvp but used somewhere else and race not having an impact is a pretty good decision.

You’re just mentioning some irrelevant details. Fact is that they used the same teamcomp. That is just as bad as boring.
We’re talking about pvp here. If a trait is not useful in PvP at all, it can either be considered a badly designed trait or there should be more different traits to compensate this.
That race did not play any role seemed a good decision to me too, but now it does not anymore. A game without any variety is dull. You can find variety in PvE but not in PvP, and if a greatly anticipated game like this does not play any role in the Esports market, it can be considered a to be a big design flaw. I don’t see any reason anymore to withold racial skills from PvP (they have to be redisigned for this ofc).

Fivedawgs.4267:

You just don’t get it ?? Do you. Even if they HD diversity, most players would always end up using the same OP builds. It has nothing to do with balance or whatever you want to call it it’s human nature. The way th3 system is setup gives you a choice to create diverse builds; people don’t do it because there is always one build which is going to be stronger than others. It’s the same very where, on league of legebdary or Dota peoplease uses the same build over and over depending on were they are going.

Who’s not getting it? When you have more diversity you also have more different OP builds. I’d rather watch an OP condi mesmer build versus an OP power revenant build than an OP Engi bruiser build versus an OP Engi bruiser build. You talk about ‘’the system’’ as you call it as it is at this very moment, not a system that could undergo some major changes. There are reasons that a big GW2 pvp live tournament is watched by such a low amount of people, and I really think that this is one of them.

Ohoni.6057:

I think esports is necessary. It tells us what builds needs a nerf or not.

Not in the slightest, because some classes are overpowered in PvP matches, while these strengths are meaningless in the actual game, while others are very weak in PvP, and so get buffs, but these buffs make them OP in the PvE content. Balancing for one is meaningless to achieving balance in the other.

Who cares about PvE?

The builds in PvE will never be balanced. Whoever has the top DPS will be meta, no matter what with an exception of one or two tank/heal builds. PvE doesn’t need any attention.

Ithilwen.1529:

Those “explanations” were excuses for using a gimmick to farm pvp.

An assertion for which you have zero proof.

Your problem is you refuse to even consider any other POV apart from your own.