Guild Wars 2

I feel like anyone defending mesmer probably doesn’t play the game at a high enough level (diamond + at the moment).

What bugs me is I was cursing at this build for a while on WvW, yet I knew devs would give no kitten about it (lol, just like the whole wvw in general). And now I see the same stupid bullkitten running around in spvp

Ruru.1302:

I feel like anyone defending mesmer probably doesn’t play the game at a high enough level (diamond + at the moment).

Basically this

Very Strong condi mesmers (EU side) starts to be in legendary division right now.

It’s another level gameplay because there is a more deep map knowledge, so they can use really better portals and moa in multiple places at the same time

If people don’t face them or don’t see the helseth/frostball stream don’t realize how strong is this build.

Im pretty sure every ESL pro team (top4 for sure) will utilize a condi mesmer in the scrapper tempest reaper revenant setup.

Maybe some pro team will have some issue to find a good enough condi mesmer.

Uncle Dalty.8327:

Alekt.5803:

About said nerf, it could start with the super speed on the clones that is way more than super speed’s speed. It’s more like 200% movement speed increase. Just look at how fast those are.

super speed on clones is such a double edged sword for anyone who knows the class…..

That answers many questions. Thanks.

The only thing that could be nerfed for mesmer is Moa. Everything else is balanced, and Moa is mostly balanced too, but it forces you to be aware that it might happen and be prepared to leave the point. Mes is a hard class, and frankly I hate any meta where teams are running more than one. However, it is just because with multiple mesmer the game gets too cluttered. They bring strong utility and good pressure, but as a trade off are easy to burst down. (good ones can run, but they can be easily forced out of position, just as they can do with you on a long cooldown with moa.)

After my last match, where I was Moa’d 4 times, it can bleep right the heck off.

DeWolfe.2174:

After my last match, where I was Moa’d 4 times, it can bleep right the heck off.

After my last match i was perma chilled 4 times because of reaper stacking.

Shall we nerf reaper freeze?

I’m not even going to bring up teh condi spam that was in there

mesmer is so OP its an absolute joke…..and the balance team is the only ones laughing

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. And other professions can’t double elite even if they are weaker.

but you have to consider the overall usefulness of mesmer as well.
by nerfing moa, will mesmer still be useful? thats the question.

I’ve tested mesmer since the last big nerf. Looking for viable builds that can mesure up to other classes. Any other builds like power shatter is long dead. Well conclusion only 1 build works. Condi shatter & only with the moa morph setup to it.

But works vs medium to lower skill players. Cuz any players that are considered high skilled, kills any mesmers. Mesmers is under powered vs all classes. Proof is in the numbers. When i see peeps doing more then 300k to 1 million k pts of damage vs the mesmer who hits during a match under 200k. Something is wrong with you complainers. & you all need to get better instead of complaining for another nerf.

Is this thread a joke? Mes is the only class that has been consistently nerfed pre and post elites, to the extent that there is just one viable build left. To nerf mes any more would be to simply remove the class from the game.

What some people do not realise is that Mes has always been a high threshold skill class to play well. It is one of the few classes that has rotations that frequently cycle through both weapon sets constantly, unlike other classes that get away with just using one set 90-100% of the time. Mistakes made in play is punishable by insta death.

Don’t mistake player skill for class superiority because the truth is Mes is not among the top classes to play at the moment nor indeed for most of its life time, in fact the only time was during its brief fling with the chrono bunker meta (boring as it was) and that was quickly remedied by the devs who smashed all and any possibility of a mes playing that build again, even to the extent of punishing skills that weren’t even used in the bunker meta. However, ele, druid, and scrapper bunker remained untouched even though they can be just as immovable as a chrono bunker was on point.

SkyShroud.2865:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. And other professions can’t double elite even if they are weaker.

but you have to consider the overall usefulness of mesmer as well.
by nerfing moa, will mesmer still be useful? thats the question.

I agree and understand. It is more than likely why mesmer has these kind of overtuned skills to prevent it being irrelevant. But the skills making her/him relevant… they really are way better.

It is not an easy problem, but a problem nonetheless.

People have complained about Moa for the life of the game and it has been nerfed. It’s an incredibly long cast, a long cool down and is totally evadable and blockable.

Truly if you die to Moa, it’s your fault.

Ithilwen.1529:

People have complained about Moa for the life of the game and it has been nerfed. It’s an incredibly long cast, a long cool down and is totally evadable and blockable.

Truly if you die to Moa, it’s your fault.

If you die to Moa it’s your fault? Really? In pvp you can’t only keep your eyes on one opponent (sometimes there are 2 chronos) and keep all your endurance for that one skill. The other opponents and the mesmer himself, will peel away your defenses. Your opponents usually do not throw away such a skill at random and with chrono he get to have 2 shots at you. It becomes rather hard to fail both for a mesmer who really wants you to be a Moa.

Vague Memory.2817:

Is this thread a joke? Mes is the only class that has been consistently nerfed pre and post elites, to the extent that there is just one viable build left. To nerf mes any more would be to simply remove the class from the game.

What some people do not realise is that Mes has always been a high threshold skill class to play well. It is one of the few classes that has rotations that frequently cycle through both weapon sets constantly, unlike other classes that get away with just using one set 90-100% of the time. Mistakes made in play is punishable by insta death.

Don’t mistake player skill for class superiority because the truth is Mes is not among the top classes to play at the moment nor indeed for most of its life time, in fact the only time was during its brief fling with the chrono bunker meta (boring as it was) and that was quickly remedied by the devs who smashed all and any possibility of a mes playing that build again, even to the extent of punishing skills that weren’t even used in the bunker meta. However, ele, druid, and scrapper bunker remained untouched even though they can be just as immovable as a chrono bunker was on point.

This thread is truly a joke. If Mesmer is so effective (even after the overnerf), why arent more top teams ESL using them?

rchu.8945:

Vague Memory.2817:

Is this thread a joke? Mes is the only class that has been consistently nerfed pre and post elites, to the extent that there is just one viable build left. To nerf mes any more would be to simply remove the class from the game.

What some people do not realise is that Mes has always been a high threshold skill class to play well. It is one of the few classes that has rotations that frequently cycle through both weapon sets constantly, unlike other classes that get away with just using one set 90-100% of the time. Mistakes made in play is punishable by insta death.

Don’t mistake player skill for class superiority because the truth is Mes is not among the top classes to play at the moment nor indeed for most of its life time, in fact the only time was during its brief fling with the chrono bunker meta (boring as it was) and that was quickly remedied by the devs who smashed all and any possibility of a mes playing that build again, even to the extent of punishing skills that weren’t even used in the bunker meta. However, ele, druid, and scrapper bunker remained untouched even though they can be just as immovable as a chrono bunker was on point.

This thread is truly a joke. If Mesmer is so effective (even after the overnerf), why arent more top teams ESL using them?

Maybe because there are no ESL/Pro league tournaments right now?

Every top pro/esl team (at least top4) will use condi mesmer, if they don’t use it is because they have issues to find one good enough to compete against Frostball/Helseth/Misha etc.

Majority of the people is always behind the meta and need time to realize this, but the build is really broken, you can’t make a build able to win every 1vs1, survive 1vs2 enough time to receive help (or easy disengage) or be able to use portal + moas in different places, making a huge difference in mobility and team fight leading.

Because this is what a good condi mesmer can do, if you can’t do this you’re not good enough on the actual condi mesmer.

Condi Mesmer will be top meta tier in the high level, without any doubt.

And is really cancerous.

Vieux P.1238:

I’ve tested mesmer since the last big nerf. Looking for viable builds that can mesure up to other classes. Any other builds like power shatter is long dead. Well conclusion only 1 build works. Condi shatter & only with the moa morph setup to it.

But works vs medium to lower skill players. Cuz any players that are considered high skilled, kills any mesmers. Mesmers is under powered vs all classes. Proof is in the numbers. When i see peeps doing more then 300k to 1 million k pts of damage vs the mesmer who hits during a match under 200k. Something is wrong with you complainers. & you all need to get better instead of complaining for another nerf.

My experience is opposite than you then because the more I go up in the ladder the more I see them. And they are VERY efficient when well played.

Edit: that being said, mesmer do not need a nerf. It’s only double Moa that might need looking into.

msalakka.4653:

I am guessing you are one of those guys who, when moa’d, just stands there looking bewildered instead of hitting 5 and dodging.

that will save you for about 3 seconds. getting moa’d is in most cases a death sentence.