Guild Wars 2

so what you’re saying is “bronze level loser braindead cant do jack braindead stupidly braindead it will always be that way” ??

By the way, the same people saying Engi takes no skill are the ones saying Mesmer is hard mode. Turret? Ok. But grenades? The same idiots who think landing grenades and lead shotting isn’t hard are the same idiots who play a class that spams invulnerability (Which is Berserker Stance, Balanced Stance, Endure Pain all in one package), evades, and deals kittened cleave damage.

People have said this before, for a glass cannon class Mesmer has one of the best uptimes. And it still is up until today. It’s the whole Mesmer community has no idea how to deal with conditions when their class definitely has options vs. conditions because they’re too used to how they are spoonfed by how braindead this class is.

Oh QQ please nerf conditions because I can’t evade spam while DPS’ing hard enough. Well guess what? That’s the counter to braindead evade spam classes like Mesmer. At least when a Thief is evading they’re not blind spamming or gaining protection from chaos armor or having their enemies dodges baited out by phantasms.

Just an FYI it will never compare to how bad it was when Warrior lost Quickness without compensation. The only thing you’re losing out if you take condi cleanse is the 20% damage trait and the boon stripping trait.

L2P already Mesmers. You want real high skill cap high skill floor? Go play glass cannon Warrior now and see what your evade spam while dpsing can do on a REAL actual balanced spec where progression is required to be strong with it.

And I’m not saying Mesmer shouldn’t be buffed because glass cannon warrior takes more skill, I’m just saying stop being a bunch of spoonfed kids and actually learn to innovate something.

P.S Helseth has no clue how to fear chain on a Necro. I don’t understand why people correlate high mechanic players with Mesmer when realistically Mesmer is one of the most brain dead glass cannon classes in the game.

P.S#2 Even DPS Guard and Glass Cannon Power Necro can be much harder than this easy class, why don’t you Mesmers try out other glass cannons and see how spoonfed you people really are?

Amir.1570:

Oh QQ please nerf conditions because I can’t evade spam while DPS’ing hard enough. Well guess what? That’s the counter to braindead evade spam classes like Mesmer. At least when a Thief is evading they’re not blind spamming or gaining protection from chaos armor or having their enemies dodges baited out by phantasms.

I’ve been playing Mesmer since launch, and I haven’t discovered this tactic yet. Teach me, please oh wise commentator of the Mesmer profession.

@Amir

Not sure if trolling at this point if you are I’mma feed. If not then:

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” – Harlan Ellison

Clearly you either only WvW or Hotjoin but I have no proff of that so I’ll start with this.

Mesmer’s “CANNOT” evade spam, your argument is invalid! Your statements implying such only leads to belief you are just outplayed and hurt. I’m willing to let the whole “brain-dead” thing slide because lets be 100% honest here. next to taking no traits, stripping down, and taking off amulet, THERE IS NO BUILD in GW2 that is going to be dark souls level difficult. Once you get your muscle memory down it comes down to what is passive, and what is active/reactive and that is only then governed by APM.

Everything other than phantasms that a mesmer can do is entirely active. If you are losing to APM, then I’m sure you find micro with zerg in SC2 to be brain dead as well.

But lets use some facts since unlike you I can actually name mechanics and compare. Count the doges/evade cooldowns please. 1 on sword which isn’t taken due to meta. One shatter which costs all your clones and is over 45 second cooldown at a “max” of 4 seconds accompanied by a bunch of inherent draw backs. Vigor on the same level as guard and has been nerfed for a while now. If we want a war comparison all it takes is shield + endure pain and you already have better evades/defensive cooldowns. and I’ve already mentioned other specs comparisons in previous posts.

No one asked for a nerf to condis. Just people pointing out the mechanical differences, and the peripherals that affect the meta around condi builds, I don’t think once in this thread someone has mentioned any reduction to conditions themselves. So dunno wut you on about.

“blind spamming or gaining protection from chaos armor or having their enemies dodges baited out by phantasms.” – Chaos armor only works when you are actually hit, has an interal c/d of 1 sec per proc. That means at most it triggers 3 times, and usually only twice, and not at all if evade spamming like your suggesting, and does very little to defend any glass specs since 1 proc of chaos armor isn’t going to do much against a auto attack that does 10ish% of your max health.

Also if phants (THE ONLY PASSIVE THING) are the reason you lose to a shatter build your just bad. They are pretty much condis with 5 if not more weaknesses and methods of counter play. If you think we QQ then you should peek into a mirror and learn how to set up and bait so your attacks aren’t easily dogged.

P.S Medi guard not only counters zerk mes (atleast when mes isn’t running staff) but they have more defensive options and preassure than most glass cannons. And power necros can do 5k+ dmg per hit with life blast, and for ANY MIRROR GLASS BUILD NOT JUST MESMER requires a lot more effort to play around. Also for how face roll mesmers are supposed to be. Why can both these specs you mentioned take points pretty well and keep them contested? (at least when not playing against premades)
When most mesmers struggle to do so?

As per your “find a new build” statements, this has already been covered. But sure there are other builds sure. Not much is viable outside of hotjoins, low MMR, and WvW roaming, which clearly from your statements is where you stand.

Mesmer needs a buff not because everything else is OP none of us are QQing because other things are strong. Although we argue less risk, and rightfully so when you compare our tools. But because other than baddies who do not know how to fight us, we are objectively under powered to the point of “easily replaced” for the game type, and the meta that revolves around it. This perspective echos from mid all the way to the top tier of ranked play.

lol after the first ele nerf and they were useless, as well as before war got it’s buffs it would have been a fallacy to tell them their most viable specs were the reason for their short comings. They NEEDED buffs.

Amir takes another hit
ship sunk

Daishi.6027:

Mesmer needs a buff not because everything else is OP none of us are QQing because other things are strong. Although we argue less risk, and rightfully so when you compare our tools. But because other than baddies who do not know how to fight us, we are objectively under powered to the point of “easily replaced” for the game type, and the meta that revolves around it.

+1

This is quite the paradox. So appropriate considering the theme of Mesmer.

Glass canon warrior takes more skill. Even guard and powernecro. It’s another universe? Maybe in his little world mesmers have Feline Grace, dodge blind spam and take 3 phantasms when dodge? Oh yeah, i forgot – spams invulnerability. F4 with 10 sec CD.

Theologus.7085:

Glass canon warrior takes more skill. Even guard and powernecro. It’s another universe? Maybe in his little world mesmers have Feline Grace, dodge blind spam and take 3 phantasms when dodge? Oh yeah, i forgot – spams invulnerability. F4 with 10 sec CD.

i disagree that glass warrior takes more skill.

except if you mean it has more weaknesses.

by that logic, it also takes more skill to play with no offhand weapon.

Solstice.1097:

i disagree that glass warrior takes more skill.

except if you mean it has more weaknesses.

by that logic, it also takes more skill to play with no offhand weapon.

Oops.
I was talking about Amir post. Just i’m not so good with construction of phrases in English.

In my view builds with highest skillcap – shatter mesmer and s/f ele. Maybe also terrormancer, but skill floor for him lower.

Mrbig.8019:

Thief -> Mes -> everything else.

No zerk build is even remotely viable aside maybe medi guard and power nec ( arguably).

Other zerk builds simply bring NOTHING to the table when compared even to a simple Hambow ( fairly balanced build) or rabid engi ( slightly over the top build but still fairly balanced).

Stop saying it’s thieves/mes faults if you get rekt with your eviscerate war or fresh air ele.

They

just

suck

Get over it.

Nice attitude buddy, but you basically repeated what I said. I’m not talking about teef countering things 1v1, I was talking about teef currently being the best choice for the burst slot in teams. Much like dd cele becoming the best choice for the on point fighter slot(s) in this current meta and pushing out bunker guardian and hambow.

You could also make the argument that the roaming bruiser slot (cele engi, shout warr) is pushing out the burst builds with the exception of teef because even with their above average mobility, tankiness and dps; roaming bruisers cannot do the job teefs do.

“they just suck; get over it” Thats a nice attitude to have coming into a thread discussing balance, I can only hope anet is a little less cynical. Ideally I would like to see 2 or 3 different classes have each at least one competitive build for each role on a team be it on point fighter, bruiser, burst or support. I feel like we are almost there but a few class builds are too efficient at their role and in some cases encroaching on roles that they shouldn’t be able to perform.

Having variety in team comps will help the game not get stuck in a rut. I dont want to watch a game where 3+ out of 5 slots are preordained and mandatory (both class and build wise) to be successful.

as enlightening and healthy as the thread started out. i think it’s provided all the competent answers it can from those that are able to present them effectively..

Ty to Sup and chaos and other chaos and anyone else that helped shine some light on the matter, i’m too lazy to go look up your names but yay for you.

As it seems, the thread has now devolved into trollish behavior, name calling, and general uneducated anger I think it’s just time to let this thread be consumed back into the recesses of the Gw2 2nd+pages..

aka, at this point stop feeding the trolls and let the thread go (before it gets locked or deleted)

Lowest Animal.8014:

Mrbig.8019:

Thief -> Mes -> everything else.

No zerk build is even remotely viable aside maybe medi guard and power nec ( arguably).

Other zerk builds simply bring NOTHING to the table when compared even to a simple Hambow ( fairly balanced build) or rabid engi ( slightly over the top build but still fairly balanced).

Stop saying it’s thieves/mes faults if you get rekt with your eviscerate war or fresh air ele.

They

just

suck

Get over it.

Nice attitude buddy, but you basically repeated what I said. I’m not talking about teef countering things 1v1, I was talking about teef currently being the best choice for the burst slot in teams. Much like dd cele becoming the best choice for the on point fighter slot(s) in this current meta and pushing out bunker guardian and hambow.

You could also make the argument that the roaming bruiser slot (cele engi, shout warr) is pushing out the burst builds with the exception of teef because even with their above average mobility, tankiness and dps; roaming bruisers cannot do the job teefs do.

“they just suck; get over it” Thats a nice attitude to have coming into a thread discussing balance, I can only hope anet is a little less cynical. Ideally I would like to see 2 or 3 different classes have each at least one competitive build for each role on a team be it on point fighter, bruiser, burst or support. I feel like we are almost there but a few class builds are too efficient at their role and in some cases encroaching on roles that they shouldn’t be able to perform.

Having variety in team comps will help the game not get stuck in a rut. I dont want to watch a game where 3+ out of 5 slots are preordained and mandatory (both class and build wise) to be successful.

It’s not like i want to have such attitude, point is that mes/thief are 2 professions that aside game mode ( which is totally irrelevant due to these profession’s strenght) are just plainly better than other professions due to stealth and evasiveness and capability to mitigate bursts ( invuln, teleports stealth, range and such).

In order to make other zerk professions even remotely viable they would need to overbuff them to ridicolousness simply enough to fill the gap between mobility and evasiveness, and even in that case i would argue it wouldn’t be enough.

Since i believe nothing in mes/thief mechanics will change ( at least not as much as needed in order to give other zerk proffs a slight chance), other zerk classes aside nec and guard ( whose are playable but no good) won’t see the light in the future.

Mind that both thief/mes are barely viable in current cele spam.

Imho they should focus more on making gaurd and nec decent choices rather than making other zerk professions slightly better ( whose will still suck ).

Variety is possible as long as aNet buffs and nerfs the right things ( something that happened quite rarely in the past 2 years and half).

^ the meta pushing all zerk builds out aside I think the fact Necro and medi guard can fight on point, as well as medi guards able to deny mesmer and s/d thief escape, as well as counter both specs on point. (except mes running staff can kill media guard if given enough time in a 1v1) makes them fairly valuable. if we were in a state of balance where counter roamer was a thing beyond “rotate Ele or engie” I think there would be more worth to take these specs.

Also zerk ranger is pretty popular although it’s usefulness is in the same realm of staff Ele minus the AoE lol. But I must say I enjoy these guys running around as opposed to their own low risk passive heal + evade spam (actual evade spam of almost every skill on certain weapon sets being an evade, not useless baseless claims.)

Fresh air Ele has the lest setup of any glass spec and imo are better gankers than thief against unsuspecting/occupied foes.

I feel players romanticize the strength of stealth. other than PU Mesmers, d/p thieves, and certain gimmick builds stealth is just a repositioning tool or an aggro drop. Most Mesmers only have two stealth skills one on a 30 second c/d, and the other has a rather unwieldy cast time and a 90 second c/d. I mean hunters shot is a more reliable amount of stealth. Other options include another 2 seconds on a 90 sec c/d and 3 more on a weapon with a useless and long cool down phantasm. But most viable specs opt out of these options, so aside from PU QQ (which not even Mesmers want to see buffed) I get a bit perplexed when it’s counted as a definitive strength from shatter, when ultimately it plus blink is a repositioning tool and method of escapeabillity or juke. The stealth on its own imo is useful but not to much of a strength over other glass specs. (Unless you actually get fooled by clones lol)