Guild Wars 2

With the advent of WTS Boston and (slight) resurgence of interest in PvP, I thought it would be a good time to try this project. Basically, it is an attempt to see how the PvP community in Guild Wars 2 views the various matchups between the different builds in the current meta and thus build a tier list off that. The basic format for this is taken from various fighting games and how they build their tier lists, with matchups. Bear in mind, the game of Guild Wars 2 does not revolve around 1v1s, but I think it would be a good project to see how the community views the relative power level of various meta builds in this game.

This is an estimation and discussion thread regarding the tier list of GW2 PvP.

This list contains a combination of the Match-up rating discussion estimates at different corners of our community, and it must be underlined that one do not claim that this is final or something to be slapped as official at its current stage. These are simply estimates that we as a community has put forth thus far, and some with very little discussion or evaluation/second look at current stage. Thus it should not be taken as scientific fact, or otherwise be used as proof. It is simply put forwards for those of us which want to debate it further.

You can view the collected data here.

It is incomplete, but could still be viewed as an interesting piece of work in regards for further discussion here at the forums. It was last updated 10/3/2015

Builds in template and for subject of discussion.
Guardian
Bunker Guardian
Meditation Guardian

Warrior
Shoutbow Warrior

Engineer
Celestial Rifle Engineer
Condi Engineer
Turret Engineer

Ranger
Condi Survival Ranger
Power Ranger

Thief
S/D Thief
D/P Panic Strike Thief
D/P Executioner Thief

Elementalist
Dagger/Dagger Celestial Elementalist
S/F Fresh Air Elementalist

Mesmer
Staff/GS Ranged Shatter Mesmer
Sword/Torch Shatter Mesmer

Necromancer
Terrormancer
Power Necro

Here’s a breakdown on what each ratio means.

5:5
A pure skill match up. “Extremely well balanced.”

6:4 / 4:6
This is, in fact, a very equal match up. The only time you will ever really notice the match up difference is when both players are truly of equal skill level. Even then it is winnable for either side. A 6-4 can be caused by any number of factors from one build just being overall better than the other or it could be a specific situation like a certian skill that doesn’t work or works only in this match up.

7:3 / 3:7
This is when a match up becomes noticeably slanted in one’s favor. Even when the two players aren’t perfectly even but still on the same level you will see that one build holds an advantage over the other. If the two players are about even with each other the “3” needs a little luck on top of being on point with their game. Because of this, 7-3’s are often considered controversial (if we dare use that word) as they stir up a lot of differing opinions. 7-3’s exist in virtually every competitive game out there.

8:2 / 2:8
There is no question that this match up is unbalanced. Usually there is one specific reason for this 8:2 in addition to lots of other examples. No one with any sense will question that this match up is unfair but to what extent is often debated

9:1 / 1:9
This ratio exists usually not just because of a specific situation or a number of situations but a design flaw by the developers. Some opinion’s say that 10-0’s default to this since, “you can’t put a 10-0 on paper”. These should be rare in competitive games. Basically the “1” might as well just AFK.

The steps for rating should be as follows.

1. A person who mains or play a specific build a lot supply his perceived match-up rating.

If it is based of one feedback only it is perceived as weak, and any other feedback in other match-up discussions would trump it, or slide it towards the middle of none-agreements (depending on how strong that other MU has been discussed).

2. From this a discussion usually follows, with new recommendations for the MU-scoring.

Specific match-ups people disagree with the scoring for are discussed as for investigating tools or options that may have been neglected and so on. Here one usually challenge the specific tools one have towards each other, provide skill data, ideas of counterplay, certain approaches of interest and in general contribute towards the “facts” for reaching understanding for those viewpoints. Unless there is an agreement the share numbers of sympathizers for a certain setups would determine what score is given, unless the MU-of the counter party has been discussed in great detail and found it agreeable towards the minority vote.

Post template:
State your build/builds that you play/the point of view you are coming from.
List perceived matchups for that build.
Provide supporting information.

(very) Rough example:
Build: D/P Executioner.
Matchup: Vs Turret Engineer, proposed MU Ratio 2:8 or 1:9.
Reason Example reasoning.

Another rough example:
Build: Cele Rifle Engineer
Matchup: Vs Cele D/D Ele, Proposed MU ratio 6:4 Engi favor

General Rules:
1. The name of the game is conquest. MUs should be discussed under the assumption both parties are vying for control of a side node ie: Mine or Henge on Forest, Quarry or Waterfall on Foefire, and Windmill/ or Mansion on Kyhlo.

Both parties don’t have to stand on the point the entire time, one party may even be allowed to cap a point for a short period, but please be reasonable. Killing your opponent while letting him have full control of the node for 3 minutes is a disadvantaged matchup.
2. Fights are to the death, or similar. Leaving and resetting a fight does not result in a 5:5 stalemate, but a disadvantaged matchup.
3. Stalemates are 5:5 ratio.

If I am missing any of the major meta builds from that list, please let me know. I will consider adding them.

Sounds cool I’ll cover sword/GS guardian matchups and Ill do hammer later
Build for all of the below: 2/1/6/1/4 SW/F; GS Guardian
Matchup: D/D Ele 1:9 easily

Matchup: Cele Rifle Engi 2:8

Matchup: Rabid Engi 2:8

Matchup: Condi Ranger 8:2

Matchup: Shatter mesmer 9:1

Matchup: DP Thief (both crit strikes and deadly arts) 9:1

Matchup: SD Thief 5:5

Matchup: Power Ranger 9:1

Matchup: Shoutbow Warrior 8:2

Matchup Soldier Hambow 7:3

Matchup Terrormancer Necro 9:1

Matchup Power Necro 8:2

Matchup Hammer Guard 8:2

Matchup Cele Staff Ele 5:5 (stalemate for over 2min)

i add reasoning later

Here’s a few Mesmer ones. Like the OP said these are just my opinions/experiences, others could feel very differently about them.

Mes double ranged vs Mes GS + Sw/T — 2 : 8

Mes double ranged vs Engi condi/Rabid — 8 : 2

Mes GS + Sw/T vs Engi condi/Rabid — 7 : 3

Mes double ranged vs S/F Ele — 5 : 5

Mes GS + Sw/T vs S/F Ele — 7 : 3

Mes double ranged vs D/P Thief (Crit) — 3 : 7

Mes GS + Sw/T vs D/P Thief (Crit) — 4 : 6

This is a strong thread and I hope others participate in this feedback.

Although there are many classes that I would like to comment on “I do play them all”. I’ll only comment on Ranger play as it is my main and it is what I use when playing competitively. I would also like to state that I run many different specs with Ranger depending on the current team comp and/or what is requested but for these very opinionated statements, I will use only LB Power and SB Condi for match perceptions as they define the two major variations of Ranger play.

Ranger vs. Warrior “any spec”
LB Power (3:7) On point, the Warrior will outlive the Ranger but off-point the 3:7 actually turns to (7:3) in the Ranger’s favor due to ability to disengage for re-approach through it’s Greatsword #4 blocking and #3 running.
SB Condi (6:4) Whether on point or off, the SB Condi Survival will outlive the Warrior so long as there are not any gross errors in the Ranger’s play.

Ranger vs. Guardian “any spec”
LB Power (6:4 or 4:6) Very balanced match-up, the deciding factor of who will win on point amounts down to which player can properly interpret the other’s skills when they are on cool-downs and when to use CCs & Bursts for the kill. It doesn’t really matter on or off point here because a good Guardian can stay on the Ranger anyway due to Judge’s Intervention, Scepter Immobilizations or Sword #2.
SB Condi (6:4) The Ranger will outlive the Guardian so long as there are no gross errors in the Ranger’s play and he knows how to interpret when the Guardian’s skills are on cool downs. Simple and proper use of pet CCs, Entangle and SB #5 will keep the Guardian unable to land his bursts while the consistent condi damage ticks and brings him down.

Ranger vs. Thief “all specs”
LB Power (6:4 or 4:6) vs. D/P or S/D, these match ups are fun and very balanced. Against P/D however, this becomes a stern (4:6) where the P/D has a slight advantage due to the LB Power’s weakness to condis.
SB Condi (6:4 or 4:6) all around vs. all Thief specs so long as the Thief is as good as you are. If the Thief is of lower skill than you, SB Condi is a stronger build than LB Power.

Ranger vs. Engineer "this will be the more complex section’
LB Power vs. Turret Engi (1:9) It is virtually impossible to run in and stand on a point or even near a point vs. a Turret Engi as a Power Ranger. The only viable option is to sacrifice the point and back up to gain advantage of your superior range and free-cast the Engi to death before re-entering the point. In this case of free-casting with superior range, the match turns around in to a (9:1) in the Ranger’s favor. I do want to point out however, that even when free-casting the Engi down, his turrets remain active until he actually goes on respawn. This puts an enormous delay on point for the Ranger’s ability to defend, neutralize & cap.
SB Condi vs. Turret Engi (6:4 or 4:6) If you see a Turret Engi or two on the opposing team, swap in axe/axe for your swap #2 and Turret Engis become easy to deal with even while standing on point, due to axe #5. Since the Engi is inherently weak to condi bursts anyway, all you need to do is make sure he burns his stun breakers and methods of escaping immobilizations. Then land a burst and make sure Entangle hits. Proceed to roll on point and axe #5 on top of him. This stops all projectiles from the turrets and the Engi. Then the retaliation also reflects damage back at the turrets and the Engi himself. Don’t forget that the axe #5 also deals quite a large AoE of physical DPS on it’s own and procs additional condis from traits & sigils.
LB Power vs. Cele/Rifle (3:7) Cele/Rifle has the advantage on point here ultimately due to Supply Crate but off point and away from Supply Crate, it becomes a (6:4 or 4:6). The loser of this match up is often who jumps the gun and expends their CCs, bursts and defenses too quickly and then gets caught on a bad cool down. The only thing that allows the Ranger to keep up with Celestial/Rifle at all is the brief stealth on LB #3 which actually allows you to land hits with GS #2.
SB Condi vs. Cele/Rifle (3:7) While on point vs. the Supply Crate the Ranger is at disadvantage. Again, off point it becomes a (6:4 or 4:6) where the match up amounts down to who burns their skills at bad times first.

Additionally I would like to point out that Cele/Rifle is not OP in 1v1 engagements. It becomes the dangerous meta in 2v2s, 3v3s, ect.. ect..

Ranger vs. Necromancer “all specs”
LB Power (7:3) Rangers will chew Necromancers apart due to the Ranger’s cycling CC’s between pets, LB #4 and even the GS #5, due to Necromancers having little to no stability at all. Not to mention the invulnerabilities on the Ranger and that the Necromancer is the slowest and most immobile class in the game, making it very easy to hit with GS #2 even when paired with Signet Of The Hunt. Worried about condi Necros? Learn to use your CCs and Necromancer is literally the easiest class for a Ranger to get on point with and bully around.
SB Condi (7:3) The Ranger needs only worry about the first Consume Conditions from the Necromancer. Once it’s used, land a burst and make sure to save your ALL your CCs to pin down the Necromancer while the condis tick and drop him. He has no skills such as shout condi clears “that can be used even while he is CC’d” so if he is pinned down, he’s already dead.

Ranger vs. Elementalist “all specs”
LB Power (6:4 or 4:6) Whether the Ranger is against Staff, D/D or Scepter, this is another match up where it all amounts down to the Ranger’s ability to not waste his skills when the Ele has stabilities/invulns/projectile immunities up and the Ele must not waste his defenses at inappropriate times. This match up generally ends quickly whether on point or off point due to the Eles ability to stay on top of the Ranger. The first person who blows skill timers at an inappropriate time, is generally the person who loses.
SB Condi (3:7) The Eles have advantage here due to the enormous amount of condi cleanse. Again, whether on point or off point it makes no difference due to the Ele’s ability to stay on the Ranger. The Ranger will need to focus on survival while defending and call for assistance to gut out the condi cleansing Ele before he will eventually lose the long fight with the Ele.

Ranger vs. Mesmer “all specs”
LB Power (6:4) It was hard for me to decide that Ranger has the advantage here as I have fought against some very good Mesmers but in the end I’d say a good Ranger has a very slight advantage due to invulnerabilties, GS #4 blocking, GS #3 disengagement, and specifically how Rapid Fire’s targeting works. Though the Ranger must be careful! All it takes is one well timed invisible Shatter burst and the glass Ranger will be down.
SB Condi (6:4 or 4:6) Well balanced match. The condis keep pressure on the Mesmer but it very hard to actually catch him with a condi burst. Likewise with the Mesmer trying to land Shatters on a tankier Ranger that focuses more on survival than power. I find this match up fun while practicing 1v1s.

Lovely thread. All of the following is from the perspective of a Double-Ranged Shatter Mesmer. X:Y indicates Xx10% in favor of the Mesmer.

vs Guardian:
Bunker: 7:3
Reasoning: Shatter Mesmer is one of the few classes capable of killing a bunker guardian 1v1. It does, however, take time. Empower can be interrupted, and the burst and boon strip of the shatter Mesmer will wear down the bunker eventually.

Meditation Guardian: 4:6
Reasoning: An even matchup. Both have the ability to kill the other in an instant, and both have the ability to mitigate the other’s bursts. Medi guards have better sustain; however, the conditions from the mesmer’s staff wears the guardian down pretty quickly. One of the more enjoyable 1v1s in the game.

Vs Warrior
Shoutbow: 7:3
Reasoning: The warrior will not be able to kill the Mesmer as long as the Mesmer does not get hit by too much burning. The warrior will die to shatters eventually. However, a good warrior may be able to survive for quite some time on the point, gaining precious points for the team.

Vs Ranger
Condition Survival: 3:7
Reasoning: Mesmers usually do not run condition cleanses. As such, a single mistake by the Mesmer will result in 10+ stacks of bleed on the Mesmer that cannot be cleansed, which will mean death eventually. Even if the Mesmer manages to down the ranger, he will go down himself soon after and then lose to the ranger’s superior downed state. Mesmers can however, win if they land good bursts. Bringing Mantra of resolve instead of portal also helps greatly. If the ranger manages to land entangle, the fight is probably over.

Power ranger: 4:6
Reasoning: A rather even matchup, especially if the Mesmer brings Mantra of Distraction instead of portal. Getting hit by rapid fire means death for the Mesmer; however, the same goes for the ranger if she gets hit by a shatter burst. This matchup comes down to whether the Mesmer can interrupt/reflect(with Masterful Reflection trait)/dodge/los rapid fire until the ranger gets killed.

Vs Engineer
Celestial Rifle: 7:3
Reasoning: Celestial rifle engineers are famous for their crowd control abilities, which they rely on to do significant damage. However, mesmers have the ability to stay at range, and have 4 (phase retreat, distortion, blink and decoy) ways to survive/break an engineer’s CC combo. If played right, the Mesmer will win; but one mistake by the Mesmer and the match can be over very quickly.

Condition engineer: 4:6
Reasoning: Again, mesmers have no condition cleanses. Thankfully, engineer grenades can be easily dodged. This matchup comes down to how well the Mesmer can avoid getting hit by grenades/poison dart volley while killing the engineer.

vs Thief
Sword/Dagger: 1:9
Reasoning: Alongside Condition Engineer vs Condition Necromancer, this is, I feel the only other truly ridiculously imbalanced matchup in the meta. Mesmers are reliant on single target damage and single-moment bursts to kill enemies. The stealth and infinite evades of the S/D thief can prevent the Mesmer from even TOUCHING the thief. The power of consume plasma is the final nail in the coffin. The matchup against the S/D thief as a shatter mesmer is one of the most rage-inducing and frustrating experiences in the game imo.

Dagger/Pistol: 2:8
Reasoning: The blinds, dazes and stealth combined with high burst of the thief can kill the Mesmer without her being able to react. However, a well-timed shatter can end the match quickly in favor of the Mesmer: it’s just very, very difficult to land, and almost impossible against good thieves.

Vs Elementalist
Dagger/dagger: 4/6
Reasoning: Again, an even matchup SO LONG as the Mesmer does not stand on point. The boon stripping of the Mesmer undermines the foundation of the elementalist’s survivability and damage. If the Mesmer does die, it will be to burning. As such, the match is decided by how much burning the Mesmer can avoid, and whether the Mesmer can time a shatters well enough to hit right after the swap from water to air.

Scepter/Focus: 4/6
Reasoning: A high-octane matchup, this matchup would be a lot easier for the Mesmer if she runs sword/torch instead of staff. The ele’s burst has little to no counterplay; you just have to hope that you dodge at the right time. Yet, the ele dies if the Mesmer sneezes on him. Comes down to whoever manages to get the burst to land first.

Vs Necromancer
Condition necromancer: 4:6
Reasoning: Again, most mesmers do not bring condition cleanses; however, they do have enough stunbreaks to break the inevitable fear chain. The necromancer’s abilities are quite easy to interrupt, and the necromancer has little to no way to mitigate damage. This is an attrition race that will be decided by whether the Mesmer can kill the necromancer before she gets too many conditions on her. Mantra of resolve makes this matchup a lot easier. If the necromancer chooses to equip signet of spite, the mesmer must somehow manage to dodge it, or she will simply roll over and die unless she has mantra of resolve.

Power necromancer: 4:6
Reasoning: This matchup would be easier if the Mesmer brings mantra of distraction. One wrong mistake by the Mesmer can result in getting 2-shot by the necromancer. On the other hand, the Mesmer has plenty of ways to stay at range, drop target, interrupt and damage the necromancer. One of the more enjoyable 1v1s, this comes down to whether the Mesmer can dodge at the right time and how much life force the necromancer had at the start of the fight.

Welp. That’s the end of this wall of text! Mesmer matchups are obviously 50/50.

Edit: When fighting bunker classes like Bunker Guardians and Shoutbow warriors, a “win” for the mesmer would be defined as “killing the bunker is a relatively short period of time”. Obviously, a bunker guardian will never kill a mesmer; however, if the mesmer takes like 3 minutes to kill the bunker, the bunker has lost the fight but won the war. Also, all the 4:6 matchups are theoretically even; I put 4:6 instead of 6:4 as the mesmer profession tends to punish mistakes much more harshly than other professions.

shimmerless.4560:

Here’s a few Mesmer ones. Like the OP said these are just my opinions/experiences, others could feel very differently about them.

Mes double ranged vs Mes GS + Sw/T — 2 : 8

Mes double ranged vs Engi condi/Rabid — 8 : 2

Mes GS + Sw/T vs Engi condi/Rabid — 7 : 3

Mes double ranged vs S/F Ele — 5 : 5

Mes GS + Sw/T vs S/F Ele — 7 : 3

Mes double ranged vs D/P Thief (Crit) — 3 : 7

Mes GS + Sw/T vs D/P Thief (Crit) — 4 : 6

My apologies as I didn’t realize the explanations were mandatory. I will brush over the major reasons for rating each of these.

Mes double ranged vs Mes GS + Sw/T — 2 : 8
Stealth is too strong

Mes double ranged vs Engi condi/Rabid — 8 : 2
Very high amounts of damage, interrupts and condition pressure that an Engineer can’t really deal with

Mes GS + Sw/T vs Engi condi/Rabid — 7 : 3
Similar, rated down a point due to the melee factor (where Engineer thrives)

Mes double ranged vs S/F Ele — 5 : 5
Can go either way, depends a bit on how defensively the Ele is set up

Mes GS + Sw/T vs S/F Ele — 7 : 3
Stealth

Mes double ranged vs D/P Thief (Crit) — 3 : 7
Lack of melee defense can make life difficult

Mes GS + Sw/T vs D/P Thief (Crit) — 4 : 6
This set is better suited to Thief engages, in both these matchups Thief is more vulnerable to being globalled but excellent sustain and a superior reset in Shadow Refuge outweigh the risk (in my opinion)

This is simply based off my experience on Power Necro
This is about Power Necromancer
This is using the weapon set Axe/Warhorn D/D and assuming around 20% LF from start

Matchup: D/D ele 4:6
If the lighting flash is bated and the ele gets stuck in the double wells + dagger auto spam they can go down quite easily. If locust swarm is coupled with Lich and the ele cannot escape the necro will win. If the ele stays near full health, lighting flashes out, and LOS’s enough they will win, very close match nonetheless. I choose 4:6 instead if 3:7 because, if used correctly, Lich is Very powerful in this matchup

Matchup: Cele Engi 3:7
Against top tier cele engineers this is not a favorable matchup for the necromancer. The blocks and reflects make Lich pretty ineffective; however, getting their health low with Lich may provide a solid opening. The slick shoes and pull interrupt heals and if the engi uses LOS to any degree they will likely win.

Matchup: Rabid Engi 7:3
This matchup favors the power necro because the combination of condition transfers and power damage can destroy the relatively low healthpool of the engineer. The Lich Can counter the the crate.

Matchup: Condi Ranger 6:4
Lich can be a near guaranteed win even if they pop stone, condi transfers are brutal against condi rangers and heal interrupts with DS fear or warhorn make this a favorable matchup.

Matchup: Shatter Mesmer 2:8
While doable, it is an extremely challenging matchup. The mesmer has many ways to deal with lich, has invluns and on demand interrupts for necro heal.

Matchup: DP Thief 7:3
Through procs and channeling skills a power necro can make quick work of a D/P thief, although the heal interrupts can be a problem and make certain to either condi transfer the steal fear or dodge it. Also, Lich is Not very useful in this matchup.

Matchup: SD Thief 8:2
The power necro will OWN (not lease, OWN) the point while the SD thief runs, dodges, and LOS’s but in the end it is likely that the SD thief will prevail. (unless the godly procs 1 shot ofc). Also, lich not very useful here.

Matchup: Power Ranger 1:9
Walk away… If you have Lich try to get the chill from Lich 3 out and continue to auto, you have a small chance With lich (if you Liched from 90-100% health)

Matchup: Shoutbow Warrior 7:3
Very good matchup, again you will own the point, try dodging the arcing arrows and condi transfer/dodge pindowns. they have no blocks but the weakness they apply can be frustrating, a lich (coupled with locust swam so they cannot run) will most likely be gg

Matchup: Soldier Hambow 1:9
if you do not have lich, run AWAY fast
Matchup: Soldier Hambow 7:3
if you do have lich, BLOW IT (maybe try and bait endure pain first)

Matchup: Terrormancer Necro hard to say this is either 6:4 or 4:6
I have thoroughly tested myself against every condi necro I could find and have had other necros on my team to duel on a daily basis. In reality it is a race to bait and fear the heal, past that it comes down to condi transfers. Lich isn’t very useful because plague counters and corrupt and counter. So, this is pretty darn even IMO

Matchup vs Cele Staff Ele 9:1
Easy and pretty fast win, don’t even blow lich

Matchup vs GS / FS medi guard 2:8
Try to bait and warhorn the heal, use locust swarm to get rid of agies and blinds Not a favorable matchup

Matchup vs Hammer medi guard 3:7
Easier than GS/FS medi guard but still hard fight, try to stay out of ring, dodge knock back, toss chill back, bait and then warhorn heal, etc.

A few more:

Mes (either) vs Terror Necromancer — 8 : 2
Without pre-nerf Dhuumfire the pressure is too low and Mesmers play much more aggressively than they used to

Mes double ranged vs Med Guard — 5 : 5
Can go either way although Guard has more room for error, while Mesmer can camp staff clones and ‘cheese’ a bit

Mes GS + Sw/T vs Med Guard — 4 : 6
Nerfs to sword really hurt this matchup as the clone dies fast and retaliation goes through the blur

The problem with this is that some classes scale much more with skill level than others (I’m not calling any classes noob classes here).

A classic example is dps guard vs thief. In the lower to mid tier, the dps guard is going to win 9 times out of 10. Once you hit the top tier however, it gets a lot more complicated.

I remember seeing a match with oRNG vs the french team where Kaazers (d/p thief) was using the trebuchet at several points throughout the match. Tage (hammer guard) tried to take out Kaazers on the trebuchet twice in the match and got forced away from the fight both times, after that he didn’t try to take that matchup for the rest of the match. And let’s remember that Tage is by no means a bad guardian.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

The problem with this is that some classes scale much more with skill level than others (I’m not calling any classes noob classes here).

A classic example is dps guard vs thief. In the lower to mid tier, the dps guard is going to win 9 times out of 10. Once you hit the top tier however, it gets a lot more complicated.

I remember seeing a match with oRNG vs the french team where Kaazers (d/p thief) was using the trebuchet at several points throughout the match. Tage (hammer guard) tried to take out Kaazers on the trebuchet twice in the match and got forced away from the fight both times, after that he didn’t try to take that matchup for the rest of the match. And let’s remember that Tage is by no means a bad guardian.

The build Tage is using (the hammer build) is not nearly as strong as a typical med guard build in a 1v1 against a thief. In top tier play a GS /SF guard will wreck any teef.

hammer guard can definitely deal with any thief if well played.. if well played.

Did a read of the post here so far, and added whatever Information I could. Please focus on the highlighted numbers for each matchup.

These are “first pass” MU numbers taken from a very small sample size with little to no discussion.

Spreadsheet has been updated as well to include whatever information on here.

In the case of match up numbers that were not in agreement, I went with the better explained MU. If anyone has any disagreements regarding the listed MU numbers please make a post as well as start a discussion as to why.

Also, booms if you could add some insight as to why you think those guardian matchups are as you see them, I would very much appreciate it. As well as perhaps shed some light onto Hammer Medi Guardian matchups.

I also didn’t have the time to add in Trevor’s ranger matchups. I’ll do that next pass.

I’ll contribute from a meditation guardian standpoint. Primarily Hammer/Staff.

Thief:
7:3: It’s been stated many times but as a Guardian against a Thief of equal skill, the Guardian will always win.

D/D Ele:

1:9: If it’s cele, you have literally 0% chance at winning. The sheer amount of sustain in terms of both regeneration/dmg coupled with cc will make it very difficult to fight against.

Engie:

Condi(rabid): 3:7: This is highly dependent if you’re running 4+ into virtues. If so, you stand a pretty good chance at winning. If not, you still have a chance but much less so.

Cele engie: 3:7: This sort of falls into the same category of elementalist except if you can somehow avoid the instant kb, you’re in a pretty good spot. If not, it’ll snowball and pain will ensue.

Mesmer shatter: 8:2: I think this also falls into the same category of thief that if played equally, the Guardian should win. However, if mistakes are made, the burst from Mesmer’s will take their toll pretty quickly.

Ranger:

Condi/tank: 4:6: This is a pretty even match-up but again, if you’re running 4+ into virtues, you’ll be in a pretty decent spot but at the cost of more dmg. If not, you still have a pretty good chance if you properly utilize your dodges/blocks appropriately.

Power:

7:3: As long as you can close the distance and force the signet of stone, they’re paper afterwards.

Necromancer:

Condi 7:3: Also is dependent on sigils or how many in virtue’s you have invested.
Power: 4:6: The sheer amount of damage the necromancer can dish out will put a guardian to its knee’s. Proper LoSing will be key in winning this fight.

Warrior:

Shoutbow: 6:4: With proper positioning and usage of blocks/dodges, you shouldn’t have much of an issue. It will take a long time though.

Hambow: 7:3: It’s all about avoiding the initial Staggering blow or Pin-down.

Arken.3725:

I’ll contribute from a meditation guardian standpoint. Primarily Hammer/Staff.

this isn’t really a viable competitive option.

The Thief and Guardian have always been a 50/50 matchup. Lower tiers, the matchup will favor the Guardian more than your average Thief.

As far as build vs build goes… i’m not entirely sure this thread is ready for build technicalities like Hammer vs S/D.

Speaking of technicalities, a thief can technically “never lose” due to his ability to always peel away. Should this type of mobility effect ratios as well? I think if a person has to “run away” to win (like most Warriors and Ele’s) it should be considered a defeat. That’s my opinion.

Regardless, I think the odds of 6:4 is fair for Guardian vs Thief matchup.

It would be cool to have a collaborative “average” between ratios listed, assuming these people’s arguments hold ground. The ones who don’t will need to validate their argument.
Example:
Necro Main says Guardian matchup is 8:2.
Guard Main says Necro Matchup is 8:2. (or any other ratio)
Should this be a 6:4 4:6 ratio or is more input needed?

mistsim.2748:

Arken.3725:

I’ll contribute from a meditation guardian standpoint. Primarily Hammer/Staff.

this isn’t really a viable competitive option.

Quite funny.

I started making a write-up for S/F ele (even though I am not the best), but then I just stopped because this thread will, for many people, lead them to conclusions that are short-sighted. Matchup capability in a 1v1 isn’t all that important in conquest unless its something like “Thief hardcounters X berserker build and can just farm you all day.” Outside of that, how good something like shatter mes or s/f ele are in a 1v1 isn’t really that important. Both should lose quite reliably (3:7) to something like a cele ele or shoutbow warrior, but their role isn’t to go toe-to-toe in 1v1’s. In a similar vein, condi ranger can beat MOST builds at least 6:4 in 1v1’s, but that is irrelevant b/c its capability takes a nosedive when the fight turns into something more.

It does make for interesting discussion, just keep in mind that the ability to fill roles is far more important than 1v1 capability. The ability to effectively 1v1 is only one of the roles that are necessary in a team-comp.

I’ll contribute from my experience playing LB/GS Power Ranger. I’m better than the majority of rangers, so my rating will be higher than what people may expect from a Longbow Ranger.

Guardian Bunker: 8:2
Power rangers should never have a problem with bunker guards. Even if I don’t end up killing the guard, I still have a lot of cc to get the guardian off point and get a guaranteed decap and eventually full cap.

Guardian Meditation: 4:6
Most DPS guardian players think they can stomp every power rangers, but a good power ranger will surprise them. Well placed Entangle during the heal and immobs from spiders can put a ton of pressure on them. Never spam your evades(never do that against anything), use them only at times you know he’s going to burst you hard. There is a lot of mind games versus them and knowing how to manage your cooldowns is how you can successfully beat them.

Warrior Shoutbow: 4:6
Shoutbow warriors are beatable as long as you kite around the point well. Never stay on point while they lay the fire field and always dodge pin downs. Wait until they use their warhorn skills to immob them after to follow with the bursts.

Engi Cele: 7:3
Are fairly easy with immobs by your side. When they use their gear shield is a great time to use the elite as it is unblockable. If they use their crate, LR out of there and use your autos.

Engi Condi: 3:7
Are a bit harder to deal with thanks to the amount of condis they put on you, the blinds and the reflects. You need to stow your weapon if they are going for a reflect or use Entangle followed with a LB#5.

Thief S/D Acrobatics: 6:4
I love this match-up a lot. There is a lot of mind games playing between a good power ranger and a good S/D Thief. In the end, the ranger has the advantage because of their cc. One mistake from the thief and it can cost him dearly.

Thief D/P Panic Strike: 7:3
I never had any problem facing them as we can easily get rid of their immob thanks to our 2 utilities. Thanks to RF tracking in stealth, this is a fairly easy match up on point.

Thief D/P Executioner: 7:3
Similar to Panic Strike, are fairly easy to deal with.

Ele D/D Celestial: 4:6
Always use your barrage after a successful stealth, this gives a lot of pressure on the ele. After that you want to CC them to take the most of the RF. Always play defensively while they are in Fire and Air attunements.

Ele S/F Fresh Air: 6:4
As long as you use your SoS at the right time, there should not be much of a problem facing them 1v1 on point. When they reflect, switch to GS to burst them. As long as you watch out for the Phoenix, you’re in business.

Mesmer Staff/GS Shatter: 8:2
The main skills you need to dodge on GS are the #2 and #4, which have easy to tell animations. get stealth on one of their closes and get a barrage on the point. CC them and use your LB#2 to finish them off.

Mesmer Sword/Torch Shatter: 7:3
A bit harder to fight than Staff/GS because of the evade on sword and the stealth Torch provides. Still, a fairly easy match-up for a longbow ranger as RF tracks through stealth like a jerk.

Necro Terror: 8:2
The key to beat any condi necros is to keep your distance from them, use your CC and burst them. If they somehow condi burst you, SoR is there for that. If they want to fear chain you, use your LR and follow up with LB#3 to re-position.

Necro Power: 9:1
I very rarely lose any 1v1s against them. Similar to Terror, all you need to do is make your CC your friend. When you immobilize them, there is not much they can do from eating a LB #2.

Really interesting thread, and while I agree with most of what blackbeard said, I’m going to post my opinions on the matchups anyway. From the perspective of the terrormancer spec:
Bunker Guard 7:3 : Necros are kind of meant to blow up bunkers like this, and I’ll always win the 1vs1, but if I don’t time my interrupts and CB after their key skills it will take way too long.

Medi Guard 2:8 : This is probably generous, necros can’t mitigate their burst well, and they have plenty of condition clears. Unless they blow all their skills I won’t win this.

Shoutbow 2:8 : This matchup can be won if you can get a nice fear chain in, and they have burned all their condition removals, but against anyone decent you won’t ever kill them. Sometimes it feels like I’m hitting a brick wall in this matchup.

Cele engi 5:5 : Pretty close matchup. They have enough cc to own me, but if I can maintain spacing they won’t be able to handle the fears.

Condition engi 7:3 : Since they have less cc, this matchup is much easier, but if the engi can poke effectively they can win still.

Turret engi 8:2 : Without a stun break the fear chains are too easy to land, and I just blow them up.

Condition survival 6:4: I have the advantage of being able to send back their bleeds, but they have a ton of condition removal on this build, so it becomes essential to make them burn their stun break, land a transfer and fear chain to win.

Power Ranger 2:8 : If I can get in on them then it’s 8:2, but any half decent ranger won’t let that happen.

S/D thief 4:6 : I rarely win this fight against a good thief, but often hold the point long enough for it not to matter. Realistically, they shouldn’t ever die to a low sustained damage output class.

D/P thief(both) 3:7 : The burst hurts, but if they aren’t careful I can get a nice chain off and they die. IF they are panic strike, sending back the immob is real strong.

D/D cele ele 5:5 :It’s all about landing Dark path, and a fear right after they leave water, if I can do that over the first 30 seconds, I will probably win.

S/F Fresh air 3:7 : Ranged burst is very hard to deal with on a necro.

Double Range mesmer 5:5 : I like this match up a lot, they have enough cc, invis, invulns, and teleports to avoid most of my big hitters, but are weak to even the auto attack. I’m also weak to their damage.

s/t greatsword mes 4:6 : It’s more difficult to deal with the immobilize and stealth

Terromancer 7:3 : most necros are bad lol

Power mancer 4:6 : I think powermancer has the edge here simply because their direct damage pressure is stronger than my pressure with fear.

Skullface.7293:

I’ll contribute from my experience playing LB/GS Power Ranger. I’m better than the majority of rangers, so my rating will be higher than what people may expect from a Longbow Ranger.

Guardian Bunker: 8:2
Power rangers should never have a problem with bunker guards. Even if I don’t end up killing the guard, I still have a lot of cc to get the guardian off point and get a guaranteed decap and eventually full cap.

Guardian Meditation: 4:6
Most DPS guardian players think they can stomp every power rangers, but a good power ranger will surprise them. Well placed Entangle during the heal and immobs from spiders can put a ton of pressure on them. Never spam your evades(never do that against anything), use them only at times you know he’s going to burst you hard. There is a lot of mind games versus them and knowing how to manage your cooldowns is how you can successfully beat them.

Warrior Shoutbow: 4:6
Shoutbow warriors are beatable as long as you kite around the point well. Never stay on point while they lay the fire field and always dodge pin downs. Wait until they use their warhorn skills to immob them after to follow with the bursts.

Engi Cele: 7:3
Are fairly easy with immobs by your side. When they use their gear shield is a great time to use the elite as it is unblockable. If they use their crate, LR out of there and use your autos.

Engi Condi: 3:7
Are a bit harder to deal with thanks to the amount of condis they put on you, the blinds and the reflects. You need to stow your weapon if they are going for a reflect or use Entangle followed with a LB#5.

Thief S/D Acrobatics: 6:4
I love this match-up a lot. There is a lot of mind games playing between a good power ranger and a good S/D Thief. In the end, the ranger has the advantage because of their cc. One mistake from the thief and it can cost him dearly.

Thief D/P Panic Strike: 7:3
I never had any problem facing them as we can easily get rid of their immob thanks to our 2 utilities. Thanks to RF tracking in stealth, this is a fairly easy match up on point.

Thief D/P Executioner: 7:3
Similar to Panic Strike, are fairly easy to deal with.

Ele D/D Celestial: 4:6
Always use your barrage after a successful stealth, this gives a lot of pressure on the ele. After that you want to CC them to take the most of the RF. Always play defensively while they are in Fire and Air attunements.

Ele S/F Fresh Air: 6:4
As long as you use your SoS at the right time, there should not be much of a problem facing them 1v1 on point. When they reflect, switch to GS to burst them. As long as you watch out for the Phoenix, you’re in business.

Mesmer Staff/GS Shatter: 8:2
The main skills you need to dodge on GS are the #2 and #4, which have easy to tell animations. get stealth on one of their closes and get a barrage on the point. CC them and use your LB#2 to finish them off.

Mesmer Sword/Torch Shatter: 7:3
A bit harder to fight than Staff/GS because of the evade on sword and the stealth Torch provides. Still, a fairly easy match-up for a longbow ranger as RF tracks through stealth like a jerk.

Necro Terror: 8:2
The key to beat any condi necros is to keep your distance from them, use your CC and burst them. If they somehow condi burst you, SoR is there for that. If they want to fear chain you, use your LR and follow up with LB#3 to re-position.

Necro Power: 9:1
I very rarely lose any 1v1s against them. Similar to Terror, all you need to do is make your CC your friend. When you immobilize them, there is not much they can do from eating a LB #2.

me vs eura (arguably best v best) the other day was around 8-2/7-3 on the hammer guard spec (which is extremely weaker vs power ranger than sw/gs vs ranger)

mistsim.2748:

Arken.3725:

I’ll contribute from a meditation guardian standpoint. Primarily Hammer/Staff.

this isn’t really a viable competitive option.

Who is Tage?

Cele staff is not particularly a 1v1 build as nearly all of my damage is AoE and the majority of the time, fights end in either my team or the other +1’ing the fight.
So most of these assessments are based on trying to hold a point or keep it neutral.

Guardian Bunker: 7:3
In all likelihood this doesn’t end in under 2 minutes, but will eventually go in the staff ele’s favor due to constant condi/damage pressure on point.

Guardian Meditation: 6:4 (gs s/f)
Assuming the guardian is forced to stand on point, I think most of the time, ele sustain and constant on point damage will win out. But often times this ends up a very drawn out fight as medi guard has enough cleanse to mitigate your condi pressure and heals to out-sustain your power damage.
Hammer guardian has added decap pressure once you’ve gone through your 2 stabilities, probably a 5/5 against that variety.

Warrior Shoutbow: 7:3
A very long fight but shoutbow has basically no way to keep condi pressure or damage up. Watch out for pin down or final thrust…or just tank it and out-sustain, meh. Don’t let yourself be stupidly decapped by Fear Me! Eventually meteor + condis once he’s out of shouts will kill him. Doom sigil is a must though.

Engi Cele: 5:5
The idea is basically to force them off point with damage then out-sustain them while you full cap. Meteor and lava font are a nice counter to crate unless it’s well-timed/combo’d with slick shoes, but eventually I just think eng’s easy to land abilities and constant burn/poison pressure will eat through your sustain. The engineer will eventually win the fight, but in terms of point gain, staff ele can pull off the better outcome.

Engi Condi: 3:7
One of the hardest counters I fight, the constant condi pressure and access to 5+ condis on fairly low cds will overwhelm you. With crate, this build is capable of killing a staff ele in under a minute, though it doesn’t always end up that way.

Thief S/D Acrobatics: 4/6
It’s downright frustrating trying to land any damage on a s/d thief. My main focus is trying to keep burn up, and maybe timing Eruption to land as they run into Unsteady ground. Runes of the Pirate are a must, as it gives you a constant source of single target damage.
This usually ends up being a long fight, but if I’m not careful steal + air/fire combined with boon rip can be a gamechanger.

Thief D/P Panic Strike: 6:4
A bit easier than s/d acro. The key is to punish any damage they put on you with your own damage on point. Apply burning whenever possible via dodge or fire 3.
Have to be very careful under 50% as immob tends to have a cover condi, so it’s not a guarantee that swapping to water will cleanse it.

Thief D/P Executioner: 7:3
While D/P executioner is probably one of the most deadly +1’s I have, it isn’t terribly difficult to beat in a 1v1. The fact is they can’t stand on point for any length of time, so unless you get bursted in a matter of seconds, they’ll die to your on point pressure.

Ele D/D Celestial: 5:5
Simply doesn’t end. If one ele is significantly better than the other then they might lose, but at the top-tier I’ve never seen this fight finish in a game scenario.

Ele S/F Fresh Air: 7:3
Similar to d/p executioner, a tough +1 to deal with but not something that can stand on point against you. It’s also fairly easy to keep protection up during their bursts and out-sustain their damage.

Mesmer Staff/GS Shatter: 6:4
Staff gs just doesn’t have the pressure to take down a staff ele alone. It’s missing the boon rip and invuln burst that makes s/f mesmers so deadly. Then again, the gs/staff variety is nearly impossible to kill because it doesn’t rely on close range to do damage. Usually I out-sustain this long enough to cap point and the mesmer decides to find a better use of his time.

Mesmer GS Sword/Focus Shatter: 4:6
A very scary match up. The boon rip +ability to stand on point with invuln negate nearly every advantage the staff ele has. However, they are susceptible to condi pressure and landing a few burnings + even one eruption can turn things in your favor.

Necro Terror: 7:3
Staff ele has enough cleanse to deal with a necro’s fear chains and bleeds. The key is to avoid letting them chain fear into corrupt boon. Armor of Earth can save your life or spell your death if it’s corrupted. Meanwhile, power damage will tear them up if they choose to fight on point.

Necro Power: 3:7
A tough match-up as no amount of sustain can keep up with their damage. This is one of the few fights where I have to choose between surviving and giving up the cap (wells or DS 1 spam). Magnetic Aura is your friend, and you can still pull off quite a bit of damage. The power necro has the advantage, but it’s not a done deal.

SobeSoul.6910:

mistsim.2748:

Arken.3725:

I’ll contribute from a meditation guardian standpoint. Primarily Hammer/Staff.

this isn’t really a viable competitive option.

Who is Tage?

Still trying to figure out who the best Guardian is NA.

Updated spreadsheet with whatever new information is posted here

Some matchups were discussed multiple times. For those that came out to a similar rating, (one person said 6:4 and the other said 7:3, or similar.) I left them as is. For those with conflicting reports, I have highlighted them in orange, as they require some further discussion.

Good thread. I know this is all about meta builds buut if enough people are into it it may be a cool idea to do a similar thread with not quite meta builds.

Reikou.7068:

Updated spreadsheet with whatever new information is posted here

Some matchups were discussed multiple times. For those that came out to a similar rating, (one person said 6:4 and the other said 7:3, or similar.) I left them as is. For those with conflicting reports, I have highlighted them in orange, as they require some further discussion.

Why is turret engi 9:1 vs a power ranger? Sure, a turret engi will win if the power ranger runs straight onto the point at the start, but any power ranger with half a brain will take 8 seconds to snipe down the rocket and rifle turret from a distance before running on points, turning it into a 9:1 in favour of the ranger.

Just wanna step in and say I’ll definitely be relaying this in my report. Great research and info!

@ Random Weird Guy

Re-read my post about Ranger play
The shift from r1-e9 to r9-e1 off-point has already been detailed
What the OP is looking for however, is on-point skirmish rating

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Just wanna step in and say I’ll definitely be relaying this in my report. Great research and info!

Thanks for the support. I hope more people will step in and participate in this thread.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

@ Random Weird Guy

Re-read my post about Ranger play
The shift from r1-e9 to r9-e1 off-point has already been detailed
What the OP is looking for however, is on-point skirmish rating

“1. The name of the game is conquest. MUs should be discussed under the assumption both parties are vying for control of a side node ie: Mine or Henge on Forest, Quarry or Waterfall on Foefire, and Windmill/ or Mansion on Kyhlo.

Both parties don’t have to stand on the point the entire time, one party may even be allowed to cap a point for a short period, but please be reasonable. Killing your opponent while letting him have full control of the node for 3 minutes is a disadvantaged matchup. "

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Ranger vs. Necromancer “all specs”
SB Condi (7:3) The Ranger needs only worry about the first Consume Conditions from the Necromancer. Once it’s used, land a burst and make sure to save your ALL your CCs to pin down the Necromancer while the condis tick and drop him. He has no skills such as shout condi clears “that can be used even while he is CC’d” so if he is pinned down, he’s already dead.

Plague Signet is instant cast stun break that reks condi ranger hard. Deathly swarm and putrid mark also are very strong against.
The necro would have to be extremely bad to lose that match up.

Mesmer double ranged shatter vs

Necro: 8:2

Ele: 8:2

Other mesmer: 9:1

Thief d/p: 7:3
Thief s/d: 4:6

Ranger 8:2

Engi 7:3

Warrior: >8:2

Guardian 7:3

As fresh air ele

Mesmer: 7:3

Ranger 9:1

Thief dp: 6:4
Thief sd: 4:6

Other eles: 5:5 (all play dd._.)

Necro: 6:4

Engi: 6:4 (all are aids or cele rifle)

Warrior: 6:4

Guardian: 8:2

daedalus.9814:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Ranger vs. Necromancer “all specs”
SB Condi (7:3) The Ranger needs only worry about the first Consume Conditions from the Necromancer. Once it’s used, land a burst and make sure to save your ALL your CCs to pin down the Necromancer while the condis tick and drop him. He has no skills such as shout condi clears “that can be used even while he is CC’d” so if he is pinned down, he’s already dead.

The necro would have to be extremely bad to lose that match up.

actually no.

the current ranger setups can summon so much condition cleansing that the bombs that necromancers can dish out is quickly dealt with. The cleansing has low to medium CD, while most necromancer utilities and even skills have medium to long CD.
Condimancer vs condiranger is a tossup.
Arguably, ranger may have an edge simply because SB stacks bleeds faster then the necromancer can remove, convert or return them.

I wouldnt say ranger is sure to win, but 6:4 in rangers favor (IE, slight favor/neutral) is quite reasonable to assume.

zapv.8051:

Really interesting thread, and while I agree with most of what blackbeard said, I’m going to post my opinions on the matchups anyway. From the perspective of the terrormancer spec:
Bunker Guard 7:3 : Necros are kind of meant to blow up bunkers like this, and I’ll always win the 1vs1, but if I don’t time my interrupts and CB after their key skills it will take way too long.

Medi Guard 2:8 : This is probably generous, necros can’t mitigate their burst well, and they have plenty of condition clears. Unless they blow all their skills I won’t win this.

Shoutbow 2:8 : This matchup can be won if you can get a nice fear chain in, and they have burned all their condition removals, but against anyone decent you won’t ever kill them. Sometimes it feels like I’m hitting a brick wall in this matchup.

Cele engi 5:5 : Pretty close matchup. They have enough cc to own me, but if I can maintain spacing they won’t be able to handle the fears.

Condition engi 7:3 : Since they have less cc, this matchup is much easier, but if the engi can poke effectively they can win still.

Turret engi 8:2 : Without a stun break the fear chains are too easy to land, and I just blow them up.

Condition survival 6:4: I have the advantage of being able to send back their bleeds, but they have a ton of condition removal on this build, so it becomes essential to make them burn their stun break, land a transfer and fear chain to win.

Power Ranger 2:8 : If I can get in on them then it’s 8:2, but any half decent ranger won’t let that happen.

S/D thief 4:6 : I rarely win this fight against a good thief, but often hold the point long enough for it not to matter. Realistically, they shouldn’t ever die to a low sustained damage output class.

D/P thief(both) 3:7 : The burst hurts, but if they aren’t careful I can get a nice chain off and they die. IF they are panic strike, sending back the immob is real strong.

D/D cele ele 5:5 :It’s all about landing Dark path, and a fear right after they leave water, if I can do that over the first 30 seconds, I will probably win.

S/F Fresh air 3:7 : Ranged burst is very hard to deal with on a necro.

Double Range mesmer 5:5 : I like this match up a lot, they have enough cc, invis, invulns, and teleports to avoid most of my big hitters, but are weak to even the auto attack. I’m also weak to their damage.

s/t greatsword mes 4:6 : It’s more difficult to deal with the immobilize and stealth

Terromancer 7:3 : most necros are bad lol

Power mancer 4:6 : I think powermancer has the edge here simply because their direct damage pressure is stronger than my pressure with fear.

I think your ratings are pretty accurate. Pretty depressing how bad condi necro is currently when everybody sees it as an easy match up. Plus 1v1 and 2v2 are necro strengths in theory, more than that it gets hard with the aoe cleanse and focus fire. I find the games that are easiest to win is when the other team has a necro, such an easy target and stomp

daedalus.9814:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Ranger vs. Necromancer “all specs”
SB Condi (7:3) The Ranger needs only worry about the first Consume Conditions from the Necromancer. Once it’s used, land a burst and make sure to save your ALL your CCs to pin down the Necromancer while the condis tick and drop him. He has no skills such as shout condi clears “that can be used even while he is CC’d” so if he is pinned down, he’s already dead.

Plague Signet is instant cast stun break that reks condi ranger hard. Deathly swarm and putrid mark also are very strong against.
The necro would have to be extremely bad to lose that match up.

Very few people run Plague signet because the passive sucks, and the active requires you to face your target while also being on a long cooldown. It also isn’t in the meta build at the top, so wasn’t considered. Also, survival ranger has a ton of condition removal, a ton of immobilize, and can apply 5 or 6 stacks of bleeds very quickly. Quick reapplication of conditions is very strong against necros that rely on 3 skills that are very good at cleansing a lot of conditions, but not good at cleansing a few conditions regularly.

This thread should be stickied for the duration of the current patching.

Unfortunately it seems that not very many people want/care to participate in a discussion like this.