Guild Wars 2

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

You replace the Paralyzation sigil with it, since that only affects Earthshaker. Knockdowns and Knockbacks aren’t affected by that sigil.

That’s what I’m talking about, this variation was NOT on metabattle.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

@Quincy Looking at the edit history of the build, it looks like the build was placed in Testing in Revision as of 15:11, 4 August 2014. It was then placed in Trash in Revision as of 18:31, 7 August 2014. That is in no way 10 days. That is three. And in regards to me not defending my build, I was on my way to Florida, where I am now on vacation. In regards to your opinion on all players who eat a killshot, there are two things you’re neglecting. First: you’re moving back and forth between points frequently. Nobody can keep track of every time you come into a fight. There’s a reason why top players eat so many killshots. Second: I’ve proven that it can work on good players, so the fact that you THINK it won’t is irrelevant.

@Enzo Three days is not “quite a while.”

Can confirm, the unpredictability of killshot is such a random factor when your team has to be watching it, otherwise, even for an experienced team, you eat big damage. If olrun’s build is disregarded it breaks what is considered in “testing” for pvp compared to gw1. /shame

edit: to my surprise a tried and tested p/p build with adventurer’s is considered “testing” any engi is rolling over their dead corpse at this moment…

edit2: this proves most people didn’t play engi before it became “op” if a basic adventure rune build is disregarded as “testing”

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

That’s Vee Wee’s P/P Adventurer Rune build that Vee Wee uploaded! You can see it at Vee Wee’s twitch @ http://www.twitch.tv/Livskis! Vee Wee wants that build taken down, but the admins keep putting it back up every time Vee Wee deletes it! Then they ban Vee Wee and say Vee Wee “vandalized!” It says right on the disclaimer that builds may be removed! The owners of this website are just the worst!

EDIT: Golly gee willikers they edited it so poorly! Look it says “Use Regenerating Mist often for more passive regen. The Regeneration boon combined with the Backpack Regenerator trait adds up to a lot of sustained healing, or you can keep it for a brief duration water field and use it with the second chain skill of Shield #4 Magnetic Inversion Magnetic Inversion for a ~2k AoE heal.” The build doesn’t even use shield! How are you going to blast Regenerating Mist with shield without shield!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

lol this thread

seriously this website is from PLAYERS – when you dont like it just dont click it

and when i read this thread here than ye facepalm

you guyz not worth the work this people even did FOR FREE

This site is laughable in the sPvP aspect. Doesn’t have D/P thief as meta even though it’s on the same level and has no ranger builds in meta or great. While rangers may not be the best atm they still have a meta too lol. They even put spirit ranger on the same level as power and traps. Spirits are at leat on great tier if you refuse to put it on meta. Other classes have the same problems too

BlazinFyre.2410:

This site is laughable in the sPvP aspect. Doesn’t have D/P thief as meta even though it’s on the same level and has no ranger builds in meta or great. While rangers may not be the best atm they still have a meta too lol. They even put spirit ranger on the same level as power and traps. Spirits are at leat on great tier if you refuse to put it on meta. Other classes have the same problems too

Feel free to join the discussions on the website if you think that something is wrong.

Site is still up and running, feel free to check it out!

Very good site! I have sent a few friends there to pick out builds. Cause lets face it some of us have friends that think they are starting the new meta! And they aren’t! lol

Love the site keep up the good work Sylvari!

What do I have to do in ToG to get Killshot placed in “Meta?”

Quincy.2198:

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

I’d like to ask how builds are decided to be trashed. I posted my killshot build and it was put in the trash section without any voting. Killshot isn’t optimal and I understand that, but I didn’t think the site was for optimal builds only. If it wasn’t at least a “Good” build, so to speak, then I don’t think I’d have gotten top 8 in the first ToL with it.

Your killshot Warrior was under a 10 day rating period, where it received the rating stars 1.2 out of 5. You did not join your own builds discussion page, when we commented and marked it for deletion. We thought you’ve abandoned your build.

And yes, this site is for working builds and killshot isn’t. Your opponents couldn’t dodge a 3seconds time skill and did not focus you, but only bad opponents. Making it unusable.

So wait. A killshot warrior build is deleted, yet your “standard power necro build” uses Axe/Focus and staff. Axe/focus? REALLY?

I do not recommend this website to anyone, since the forums here are a good enough place to look for good pvp builds, as are looking at twitch streamers themselves.

I haven’t looked at what you guys have under PvE, but if it doesn’t match the rT builds, then your credibility drops further.

Edit: I just checked the Ele Pve builds and the staff build on their uses the traits that a D/F build would use. You guys really need to check your info.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

This site still hasn’t taken down Vee Wee’s build after Vee Wee repeatedly asked to take it down! What’s worse is that Vee Wee’s build is only rated “good” even though an Engi who won ToL2 runs a very similar build! Meanwhile a build that recommends Earth Sigil is the meta Engi build! Earth Sigil! Jokes! Just thilly jokes all around!

For the sake of bettering Guild Warts 2 and its community, Vee Wee is offering to clean up the site and update all the meta builds because most of them are off!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

The worst part is that they outright lied about the 10-day period. It was three days while I was traveling to Florida, giving me no opportunity to defend my build! And why do I need to defend my build? Placing top 8 in the first ToL with it should be at least enough to avoid the trash bin!

This is why build sites that rely on the community to determine what is good or not and make up builds has issues. Wish y’all the best of luck but there is a lot of work left.

To the 3 haters, you know who you are, feel free to join the website, IT’S A WIKI FOR A REASON. Join the discussions so that changes can be made or choose to hate here without any benefits…

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee did join because Vee Wee wants to see the best Guild Warts 2 community ever, and Vee Wee thought a site similar to the old Guild Warts 1 PvX site was an amazing idea! Vee Wee used the Guild Warts 1 site a lot! But Vee Wee made some changes and then all those changes were reverted! Earth Sigil meta for Engis! Rabid Amulet for Terrormancers! Not good! The reason they gave was “we shouldn’t listen to every random that comes in here!” Vee Wee posted how to make these builds better in the discussion but then Vee Wee got flamed by the owners and everything was deleted!

Vee Wee uploaded Vee Wee’s own personal build and then literally everything got modified (and terribly, like how to combo fields with your shield when the build doesn’t even run shield!) and when Vee Wee wanted to take it down, the admins were like, “NOPE! Read the fine print! This build is ours now!” The funny thing is the fine print says builds can be deleted! Then Vee Wee got banned for “vandalism”! Joke site! Just a joke site!

Also when the “meta” Engi build reached a rating of 3.8/5 (meta is supposed to be >4.75/5), the owners took down the rating system! This site is just so biased! It’s a real shame too because the concept is so great! The owners need to lighten up, or there should be a change in management! All Vee Wee can do now is to steer people away from a site with incorrect builds! Visit the pvp streamer thread for builds! Most streamers have their builds in the description or you can just ask!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-PvP-Streamer-Thread/

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Seems like a solid resource for players wanting to compete. Ofc the builds arn’t optimal, but you’d be amazed how many players run sub optimal stuff.
Just look at ToL 2. A dps guard running sword main hand, with inferior burst, cc and team fight potential, for example. Watching them down something only for it to be ressed because, strangely, they can’t cleave with a sword. Just an aside though. Certainly better than google

Awesome work. I’ll be sure to bookmark this.

Yea, I think anyone who uses the site should know that it’s a community-built site and won’t be perfect. Getting the community to agree on anything is often a beast of a task, so I could imagine how hard it can be to get people to agree on something like an engineer build when there seem to be so many viable alternatives floating around.

And really, the community in general is partly at fault for this. I mean, I remember when most if not all builds used in tournaments were easily and readily available at multiple locations, but sites like IntoTheMists (at least the forums) are pretty dead now.

Nowadays, it seems like MetaBattle is one of the few places left that’s trying to provide high-end community info on meta PvP builds.

@ ArrDee: I can’t speak for the people at the MetaBattle site, but personally, I could see people having trouble taking you seriously. I mean, when you start every post talking about being “#1 Engi NA” and constantly use a 3rd person cartoon voice, it’s not entirely unlikely that people start thinking you’re a joke. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve read a lot of your posts and I know you actually have some pretty solid input, even if reading through what you write often ends up giving me a headache.

sigh I wanted to stay away form the forum drama but I’m gonna join in on alt acc.

Hi, I’m Hanz from metabattle, one of the PvP moderators. Let me shed some light on some things.

@Olrun – I think we’ve already discussed his issue in-game, but a quick recap: there is a rule about moving builds from Testing – you need a minimum of 5 votes, then there is an unwritten one we aren’t really using anymore, but if a build sits in testing for ~10 days, and gets 3-4 votes we move it based on those votes. I thought Olrun’s case was the second, but turned out to be the 1st – after 5 votes, the build was sitting on 1.2 stars – we move builds to Trash below 3.75, so it was a pretty easy decision. As the number of voters grow, we will keep raising the number of votes a build needs.

Later we’ve discussed about the possibility of bringing back something I believe gwpvx had at some point, the “Workable” category, which is slightly below the “Good”.

@ArrDee – let’s recap your 24 hour long activity on the site:

The good:
- You’ve joined the discussion page for a build, suggesting changes – some valid, some less valid, and we made some changes based on that. Appreciated.
-You’ve uploaded a new engi build – greatly appreciated ^^

The bad:
- After uploading that build, you skipped the Testing and instantly moved it to Meta (not to mention it’s not meta). We refused this kind of special treatment and moved it back to Testing.
- Then you gave the meta build 1 star just because it’s not your build.
- Next thing you did was blanking the page of the build you’ve uploaded leaving nothing there but an external link – this is an act of vandalism, even if it was uploaded by the same person.
- 3rd one (clever move) you blanked the page of the current engi meta build and replaced it with your build, kept the ratings of that page and changed the rating you gave to 5.
- Needless to say, we reverted these acts of vandalism but you kept doing it. At that point we had to set protection for those 2 pages to prevent further harm (which means only mods can edit the page, which is not what the goal of the wiki is) – giving you 1 more chance to stop doing things that may get you banned, I think the other PvP mod even warned you.
- Then you went to the discussion page and began to curse and kittentalk us for doing what moderators do: #moderate.
- This was the point where we banned you, seeing no hope for you to stop.

You also kept demanding credit for the build, and you still do – we go by the gwpvx rules, taking credit for a build on its page is not allowed, and once the build is the part of the site why would we remove it – someone would upload it sooner or later, and you have no legal claims for that – only ArenaNet does. Not to mention you aren’t the only one running this in the entire game. I’ve tried to get in touch with you in-game about these things but you did not respond to me, instead kept being a forum martyr. I’ve mailed you that if you no longer wish to be associated with the site, taking you off the streamer list is all we can do, but again, you did not respond but kept trying to cause harm to the site by spreading false info (earth sigil and other things were changed weeks ago and the shield part on the P/P guide was clearly an accident that was there for like a day). I took it as a “yes” and removed you from the streamer list.

Last but not least: it’s a community project. If you find 1-2 mistakes among the traits/skill/runes/sigils of ~40 Pvp builds, I don’t think that means the entire site is just bad. Do I have to remind you guys that it’s a community project? If you find a mistake, propose changes on the build’s talk page – actually takes less time and is more effective than forum posting about it – and most of the time you don’t even tell what do you find wrong and why, or usually it turns out to be a preference thing that we already covered in the variants section.

Very impressive

And oh noes.. It’s That Vee Wee guy again…

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee had a long post written about how you are being thilly but drama is even thillier! Just know that

• Vee Wee did not mean to put Vee Wee’s own personal build (that Vee Wee has been running for over a year and shared with everyone to use) as meta! Vee Wee just copied the code of the “meta” Engi build to upload Vee Wee’s own personal build!
• Vee Wee gave the “meta” build 1 star because Earth Sigil, which is still being suggested on the site contrary to what you are claiming! Prot Injection over Backpack Regen! To quote Ostricheggs, “I take Backpack Regen so I don’t die like a boogerface (He used an unfrandlier word)!” Also the fact that you said Vee Wee’s suggestions weren’t valid! How can a self proclaimed non Engi player tell Vee Wee, an Engi player of 2+years, that Vee Wee’s suggestions aren’t valid! Vee Wee only made suggestions because of the reasons above! Then you guys flamed my suggestions!
• Vee Wee’s build is Vee Wee’s build! Vee Wee created and has been using and streaming this build for over a year now with minimal changes! Vee Wee shared this build with everybody so obviously other people are using it! But Vee Wee wants to take down Vee Wee’s uploaded build like the disclaimer says we are able to do! Vee Wee does not want Vee Wee’s build on a site with kooky builds disguised as meta builds! Also a ToL winner uses his own version of Vee Wee’s build! That automatically makes the build better than Earth Sigil build! Maybe even meta!
• Vee Wee never received any mail or whispers from you guys! Otherwise Vee Wee would have been like, “Sure Vee Wee will help you guys take these awful builds and turn them into actual meta builds!” That way Vee Wee doesn’t have to feel ashamed to have Vee Wee’s personal build that you guys stole on such an awful build site!
• Vee Wee never curses at anybody! Vee Wee is the frandliest!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

@ Vee – don’t you think giving 1 star because of 1 sigil you don’t agree with is a bit absurd?

And we don’t have Earth as main bar, it’s a variant. Geomancy is a bit unrelyable especially on engi – can be very powerful if someone’s on you, especially multiple opponents, but it’s all about luck (engi swaps kits more often than any class swaps weapons, so it’s hard to time a proc), so some people may want a more relyable/ranged way to apply bleed (often triggers 1k range away from your target, totally worth it). It’s still not a main thing, but it’s worth to be listed IMO.

Backpack Regenerator is a great trait and it’s not up to debate. But the discussion was about if it’s worth to take instead of Protection Injection, another very powerful trait.

Eura did well during ToL, that means power ranger is meta? Not yet (#balancepatchinc). Meta refers to widespread, great builds. And most of our builds are based on builds seen on ESL finals and ToL top 4, or ones used by top streamers. The meta tag refers to how widespread and good that build is – if basically nearly every second player of the class is running with that build and it does well in higher rated matchups, it will get the Meta tag. “Awful builds” refer to builds not made by you, we get it.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Thanks for your reply my frand witcher! But taking Prot Injection over Backpack Regenerator hasn’t been good since the hambow nerf! Backpack Regeneration is infinitely better now! The uploader of the meta build (who doesn’t even play Engi btw) said you should always take Prot Injection over Backpack Regenerator and said my idea was thilly! Well whatever! 1 star!

Geomancy is amazing! It’s not about luck at all! What are you talking about! Earth is just inferior in every way and shouldn’t be a variant! There are way, way better sigils to run than Earth! Battle! Energy! Generosity! Leeching! Blood! Doom!

If you can point out what top Engi streamer or what top 4 ToL Engi ran 30/0/0/30/10 condi or 30/0/0/20/20 condi then Vee Wee will call it meta! In fact, if you can find any top Engi running these builds just in general, Vee Wee will call it meta!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

witcher.3197:

sigh I wanted to stay away form the forum drama but I’m gonna join in on alt acc.

Hi, I’m Hanz from metabattle, one of the PvP moderators. Let me shed some light on some things.

@Olrun – I think we’ve already discussed his issue in-game, but a quick recap: there is a rule about moving builds from Testing – you need a minimum of 5 votes, then there is an unwritten one we aren’t really using anymore, but if a build sits in testing for ~10 days, and gets 3-4 votes we move it based on those votes. I thought Olrun’s case was the second, but turned out to be the 1st – after 5 votes, the build was sitting on 1.2 stars – we move builds to Trash below 3.75, so it was a pretty easy decision. As the number of voters grow, we will keep raising the number of votes a build needs.

Later we’ve discussed about the possibility of bringing back something I believe gwpvx had at some point, the “Workable” category, which is slightly below the “Good”.

@ArrDee – let’s recap your 24 hour long activity on the site:

The good:
- You’ve joined the discussion page for a build, suggesting changes – some valid, some less valid, and we made some changes based on that. Appreciated.
-You’ve uploaded a new engi build – greatly appreciated ^^

The bad:
- After uploading that build, you skipped the Testing and instantly moved it to Meta (not to mention it’s not meta). We refused this kind of special treatment and moved it back to Testing.
- Then you gave the meta build 1 star just because it’s not your build.
- Next thing you did was blanking the page of the build you’ve uploaded leaving nothing there but an external link – this is an act of vandalism, even if it was uploaded by the same person.
- 3rd one (clever move) you blanked the page of the current engi meta build and replaced it with your build, kept the ratings of that page and changed the rating you gave to 5.
- Needless to say, we reverted these acts of vandalism but you kept doing it. At that point we had to set protection for those 2 pages to prevent further harm (which means only mods can edit the page, which is not what the goal of the wiki is) – giving you 1 more chance to stop doing things that may get you banned, I think the other PvP mod even warned you.
- Then you went to the discussion page and began to curse and kittentalk us for doing what moderators do: #moderate.
- This was the point where we banned you, seeing no hope for you to stop.

You also kept demanding credit for the build, and you still do – we go by the gwpvx rules, taking credit for a build on its page is not allowed, and once the build is the part of the site why would we remove it – someone would upload it sooner or later, and you have no legal claims for that – only ArenaNet does. Not to mention you aren’t the only one running this in the entire game. I’ve tried to get in touch with you in-game about these things but you did not respond to me, instead kept being a forum martyr. I’ve mailed you that if you no longer wish to be associated with the site, taking you off the streamer list is all we can do, but again, you did not respond but kept trying to cause harm to the site by spreading false info (earth sigil and other things were changed weeks ago and the shield part on the P/P guide was clearly an accident that was there for like a day). I took it as a “yes” and removed you from the streamer list.

Last but not least: it’s a community project. If you find 1-2 mistakes among the traits/skill/runes/sigils of ~40 Pvp builds, I don’t think that means the entire site is just bad. Do I have to remind you guys that it’s a community project? If you find a mistake, propose changes on the build’s talk page – actually takes less time and is more effective than forum posting about it – and most of the time you don’t even tell what do you find wrong and why, or usually it turns out to be a preference thing that we already covered in the variants section.

Wow…

This why we can’t have nice things!

Props to the people at the wiki handling stuff like this that comes from the community. You have more patience than I do.

Something I would like to point out. Vee Wee is not commenting on the forums from her main account. I don’t know why that is (probably because it’s banned), but that’s why the mails aren’t reaching her (I would assume).

On another note, yes we did talk in game about my issue, and I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. I’ll just post what I think here (even though I said this to you ingame as well). The voting system is inherently going to bring easier to play builds to the top, even if they’re significantly weaker than harder to play ones. Evidence of this can be seen on my Killshot build. Do I honestly think it deserves to be meta? No. It’s sub-optimal. However, you said that all but one person gave it one star. Now, I don’t know about you, but I think that’s more individuals not wanting the build on the site than an actual evaluation of the effectiveness of the build. This is where you mentioned making the Workable category, but how are you going to determine that if people (including the sites own moderators) are giving such inaccurate (in my opinion) scores to the untraditional builds? This really is meant as a serious question that I don’t have an answer to, not mindless hate.

On another note, I think you should keep builds in Testing for 10 days regardless of how many votes they get. New builds (probably) aren’t going to be added too often, so I just think that’s a better idea.

Thx god there aren’t axe-s/lb celestial and the new patch-proof axe-wh/lb celestial wars there (Probably the 2 best specs for close point defender role)…really don’t want everyone running it in tournament since they’re pretty game breaking.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Axe/Longbow

I think it’s weird which things it calls variants and which it calls standard, but a/sw lb is there.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Axe/Longbow

I think it’s weird which things it calls variants and which it calls standard, but a/sw lb is there.

Celestial axe/sword is totally different and way stronger than this, and this spec has big mistakes inside too, like sword offhand has no point on soldier…just grab a shield oh instead if you wanna run axe on soldier ammy…way better block than riposte and you also get a stun for landing you evi (With “new” intell signet you can safely shield bash not loosing crit on evi too since now goes for 3 hits instead of old 1) Also hoelbreak runes are good only when coupled with certain traits, hoelbreak alone are not dat good imo. Thing is that ppl usually don’t go hj with best meta specs for obvious reasons (If you have a really good tpvp spec you don’t want to share it with the rest of the world ofc)…i would never go hj with cele a-s/lb or cele a-w/lb for sure as far as we have spectator mode…and if we want to go deeper bout this there are certain bugs too than only few ppl know and that are not gonna be fixed because noone knows about them…as a war for example let’s say that there are some celestial eles that i would never 1v1 because i know that THEY know and that i would never win 1v1 vs them because of that…on hambow at least. There is more hidden stuff than you think folks.

Off-hand sword fits soldier amulet too. It allows you to use the Dual-Wielding trait on the Strength line, and a full Impale still does 4463 dmg to moving targets on Soldier which is not bad at all. Not to mention off-hand Sword provides 2 and 1/4 sec block on 15 sec CD while shield gives a 3 sec block on a 30 sec CD.

But this build has many situational things, not to mention player preference (dogged march or sure-footed, warrior’s sprint vs signet mastery, hoelbrak vs pack vs str runes, etc). We can’t please everyone at the same time, that’s why we have the “Variants” sections.

About the voting, double ranged shatter isn’t the easiest spec ever, still had a 5.0 rating. I’d say it’s just that for most people killshot’s not worth the effort you have to put into it just to even make it acceptable.

witcher.3197:

Off-hand sword fits soldier amulet too. It allows you to use the Dual-Wielding trait on the Strength line, and a full Impale still does 4463 dmg to moving targets on Soldier which is not bad at all. Not to mention off-hand Sword provides 2 and 1/4 sec block on 15 sec CD while shield gives a 3 sec block on a 30 sec CD.

But this build has many situational things, not to mention player preference (dogged march or sure-footed, warrior’s sprint vs signet mastery, hoelbrak vs pack vs str runes, etc). We can’t please everyone at the same time, that’s why we have the “Variants” sections.

About the voting, double ranged shatter isn’t the easiest spec ever, still had a 5.0 rating. I’d say it’s just that for most people killshot’s not worth the effort you have to put into it just to even make it acceptable.

Its none of my business, but considering Olrun did GREAT in the first ToL with it due to his skill, I think you really should display it as an okay option somehow on the website.

And in our ingame conversation you said that power ranger might be viable after the patch. Which I and most non-ranger mains think is blatantly wrong. So I’m just adding that to this argument, because I think that the status of some of the builds is a bit vulnerable to bias by people who run this sight.

Also I just checked your trashed builds section and I’m puzzled why the regen tank ranger build is placed there, when its arguably the ranger’s strongest WvW roaming and dueling spec.

Also like I said before, please change the axe/focus from the standard power necro build to dagger/dagger and put axe/focus/warhorn in the other options section! True it won’t be viable after the patch to the lich form nerf, but I think it should at least have the correct best build according to people that actually play power necro at high levels (like Xerrex in the EU ToL).

This is the issue though: what keeps the community honest? What does the community know about builds? The “community” is just a group of people, people who may be absolute garbage at PvP and think 0/0/6/6/2 is the best power necro build, people who are rated 10% in team/soloQ, or just someone who doesn’t like the build because its run by someone they don’t like. Especially with an automatic system like this.

I mean seriously, the killshot build made it very far in the single largest tournament up to that point, and yet it got a sub 2 star rating. That makes absolutely no sense. There needs to be a split between “pro” submitted builds and just random player builds submitted by some scrub like me. Obviously something I submit would be subject to testing, because I’m not a high level PvPer who has proven the build in high level tournaments, but if the build has been seen and had success in high tier play its just silly that it’d be deleted.

In my opinion, Killshot isn’t (currently) bad, necessarily. It’s just counterable and doesn’t fit into as many team comps. If memory serves, stuff like that was still posted on PvX. IDK, though.

Bhawb.7408:

This is the issue though: what keeps the community honest? What does the community know about builds? The “community” is just a group of people, people who may be absolute garbage at PvP and think 0/0/6/6/2 is the best power necro build, people who are rated 10% in team/soloQ, or just someone who doesn’t like the build because its run by someone they don’t like. Especially with an automatic system like this.

I mean seriously, the killshot build made it very far in the single largest tournament up to that point, and yet it got a sub 2 star rating. That makes absolutely no sense. There needs to be a split between “pro” submitted builds and just random player builds submitted by some scrub like me. Obviously something I submit would be subject to testing, because I’m not a high level PvPer who has proven the build in high level tournaments, but if the build has been seen and had success in high tier play its just silly that it’d be deleted.

Ppl in high level tournaments won’t give away the best specs and teamcomps except for those you can see in ESL…and for sure not writing down about gamebreaking bugs (Like ele block and channeling bugs) cause we don’t want to get every ele going full-broken mode with dat, if you find how to get some sort of advantage you’ll keep it for yourself ofc, that’s happened with sword block bug on war (That made “someone” being totally broken and winning an important tournament also because of that)…only a few knew about that, community just got aware of the bug when it had already been exploited everywhere by high level teams and when it was already going to be fixed anyway….community is just gonna get pretty much only the “used” stuff but don’t expect someone writing down the really good kitten until it has been widely abused already

@ nearlight – maybe it’s a strong roamer, but problem is, the guy who uploaded the build overtagged it for no reason – which means he made this build to be used in PvP, Zerg, roaming, Dungeons and general PvE – which obviously means it got negative ratings from the sections it does not belong to.

@ Bhawb – gwpvx never had such problems, for multiple reasons I’d guess. If someone’s running an entirely garbage build and is convinced about it being good, are not the players who have the dedication to rate builds on such sites (usually). Why would you rate something you have no clue about anyways? Sure, there may be 1-2 occasionally, but chances are there will be an overwhelming majority who knows what they are doing. Even with few voters this works pretty well currently (but has some flaws, nothing is ever perfect). The the number of users/voters grows every day, which improves the effectiveness of the rating system.

@ Killshot – people tend to forget that there aren’t more than 5-7 dedicated (and active) teams on each region (EU/NA). The scene’s pretty small currently. Securing the 8th(?) place is an achievement nevertheless, but does not make a build good.

I’m sure we wouldn’t be having this conversation if it wasn’t Olrun who submitted the build, think about it. And he said even he won’t be able to vouch for this build after the patch. Aside from the reasons mentioned above: I’m sure the only reason this build even did damage is the Asura who’s holding the rifle – 3 sec cast time, stationary, can be blinded / dodged / blocked / LoS’d / interrupted, you can’t pull it off vs half-decent players, except if you are so tiny they don’t even notice you – and even this will be gone after the standard enemy models become a thing.

Edit: don’t forget, GW PvX had more builds under the Trash/Archived categories than under the Working ones.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frands! You should stop arguing with the metabattle admins! It just falls on deaf ears! Vee Wee offers input after 2+years of playing Engineer! Metabattle admin who doesn’t play Engi says Vee Wee’s input isn’t valid and recommends Earth Sigil! That just shows this site is thilly and Vee Wee can’t recommend it to anyone until builds are fixed and the owners stop being so biased!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Stop embarrassing yourself with your lies Vee. We get it, you don’t like us, move on. This site did more for the community already than you ever will (no offense) so don’t try to shoo away people who need this. Thank you

Or do you have anything that actually contributes to the discussion?

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Linking them to a site with biased admins with very little knowledge about PvP and wacky builds under the guise of meta builds won’t help new players! Vee Wee isn’t trying to shoo them away! Vee Wee is just trying to direct them to a site with real builds! Like so!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-PvP-Streamer-Thread/

A list of all the top streamers with their actual builds! You can even watch them play it and ask them questions! It’s great!

And if you could just point out where Vee Wee lied that would be thuper!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I did already some posts ago. And believe me, it’s hard to decide where to begin.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Linking them to a site with biased admins with very little knowledge about PvP and wacky builds under the guise of meta builds won’t help new players! Vee Wee isn’t trying to shoo them away! Vee Wee is just trying to direct them to a site with real builds! Like so!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/New-PvP-Streamer-Thread/

A list of all the top streamers with their actual builds! You can even watch them play it and ask them questions! It’s great!

And if you could just point out where Vee Wee lied that would be thuper!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Are you dumb or what ? You have already been told that sigil of earth is only included as a possible variation and that your build does not fall into the meta category because it is not widely used by engineers.
You have also been told what you did wrong but no, “vee vee just wants to help and the evil admins troll him”.
And now you act all kitten and engage in a silly crusade against metabattle.

I think all this forum roleplaying stuff is starting to take over your common sense.

Anyway if you want to get good builds, maybe not the best ones but for sure way better than most of those i can see there you should get them from last ESL cups. Keep in mind that sometimes ppl also change build after jebro and blu commented player’s traits…since they usually show them once before start and you can still change some stuff right after…

And please remove those things like gs zerk war (Zerk war in general) from pvp specs…you’re just sending send ppl to death with dat stuff, if you really want ppl to start playing viable stuff just gather ESL specs around and stop looking at yolo 1v1 servers…1v1 servers are full of kitten expec angz with all dat no soldier, no celestial and so on bs…

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee isn’t going to reply to such unfrandly remarks towards Vee Wee! Vee Wee is the #1 frandliest person NA and isn’t dumb goshdarn it!

Sigil of Earth is just one of the reasons why the admins are thilly! They actually think it’s a viable variant when Vee Wee already listed sigils that are way better variants! Doom! Battle! Energy! Geomancy! Leeching! Generosity! See! Free advice! And you say Vee Wee is on a crusade! Crazy! Vee Wee just wants to help!

The moderator said Vee Wee’s ideas weren’t valid, then went on to suggest Protection Injection over Backpack Regenerator! That was before they deleted all the discussion! No high level Engi ever runs Protection Injection over Backpack Regenerator but I guess the moderators know better even if he admitted he doesn’t play Engi! Shucks that was deleted off the discussion too!

No high level Engi runs 30/0/0/30/10 or 30/0/0/20/20 condi! 30/0/0/30/10 is the old Engi meta! This was back when hambows were crazy ridiculous and Protection Injection was really necessary! The proof is the only condi Engi in ToL winning the tournament! His build is his variant of Vee Wee’s build! We weren’t really talking about Vee Wee’s build, but that seems like it would be more meta than Earth Sigil variant build doesn’kitten

Also meta doesn’t mean “widely used by Engineers”! Turret builds are widely used by Engineers! Does that mean it’s meta! No! Turret builds are awful! Meta means the best! But Vee Wee doesn’t think Vee Wee’s build is the best! Again Vee Wee did not mean to upload Vee Wee’s build as under the meta category! Vee Wee did not know how to add builds so Vee Wee just copied the code of the thilly Earth Sigil build which was under the meta category!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Vee Wee isn’t going to reply to such unfrandly remarks towards Vee Wee! Vee Wee is the #1 frandliest person NA

“UPDATED AGAIN AGAIN METABATTLE SUCKS kitten " – from your stream description.

“…so for that kitten you. secondly, yes like you said builds may be edited, altered, or REMOVED so kitten you again i am removing it…” – it’s you on the discussion page, pre-moderation. I think i don’t have to explain which words are there instead of kitten.

Suggestion: add Vee Wee #1 liar NA to your signature so it might have something that’s actually true.

I want to but in on some things…

I have personally no clue how you guys handled the PvXWiki, though I used it as a base and a source for information, adjusting things to my own preferences (And most notably, did good enough)…
A quick glimpse at Metabattle will give me insight in builds, with some opted variants… If I have my own preferences, I will go ahead and adjust it to my will…

A very strong thing about the PvXWiki was that what was considered “Good” did not end up in your death if you are somewhat less experienced – this is, from what I see, exactly what the moderators are aiming for…
I play quite well on some exotic Thief, Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer builds, but would I consider them “Good” or even “Meta”? Hell no, there is in no way that I can guarantee survival on any of them… A “Good” or “Meta” build, can and must be able to fit into any team and isn’t a huge risk… Bias for being a “Top Player” advising a build should also not be a thing… I am all up for build diversity, but you got to remember to set an example and not lead people into their deaths…

Metabattle is new, it obviously needs polishing, but I figure that in time, the popularity will spread and will gain more ways for people to give their input… I hope that in time more and more of the buildcrafters will get involved in this site, so they can give extended knowledge about the usage for such builds and rotations – something that is far more valuable than “use this”…

And from what I read from one of the mods, and this is something I quite like, you need to be open minded and clear – and not be a stubborn fool who only wants to be right just ’cause… There is no reason to go into further detail for me to explain what I mean, but I will say this at witcher; there is no reason to go further into debate, you have proven your point, and it is for us as a community to work on getting things rolling better from hereon out

witcher.3197:

@ nearlight – maybe it’s a strong roamer, but problem is, the guy who uploaded the build overtagged it for no reason – which means he made this build to be used in PvP, Zerg, roaming, Dungeons and general PvE – which obviously means it got negative ratings from the sections it does not belong to.

Then are you just able to change the tags on that build so it only exists in the WvW roaming category, instead of zerging, dungeons, pvp, where its obviously suboptimal?

I understand that that is the reason why its trashed, but I think you guys should as a rule of oversight clean up things like that and place builds for their most viable category, and not throw them away for things like being overplaced. If you want I can even join this site and recommend that there.

@GoogleBrandon If we’re aiming for the lowest common denominator, then we’d better delete all the thief builds. Bad thieves are just rally bots.

Haha, I hear what you mean, though it was not my point exactly

A thief has a role – quick roaming burst class, capable of dealing with most other zerk specs with relative ease… When you want to play a thief, you are committing to this role…

This role is completely different from the current warrior, who is mostly a slower but tons of more tankier bruiser within the team…

The two classes can be played differently, a tanky thief might be more exotic, but be surprised, the only problem is that it does not fot the philosophy of a team well, or simply the expected role…

I expect and hope that with the change to adrenaline and Arcing slice that the role for a warrior will change, but for now we, saldy, have to swettle with the fact that people have a said expectation of a class (Meta), and though the odd one out peforms well with an exotic build, it goes against “the mainstream” so people will use these builds incorrectly and die… Which leads to frustration of your team etc. Etc…

I play a Fresh Air ele as my secondary most played, and I can get really aggitated by those who fail at utilizing the build… This however comes from the idea that people still think " oh this is Elementalist, so I need to play it like this" and thus end up in bad matchups or AoE’s which they cannot handle… Because of this very reason I would argue if Fresh Air can be considered Meta or even Good even though some top teams run it…

It is no personal offense, this is just the way I view it

Look at League of Legends. Different champions can fill different roles. The same is true for classes in Guild Wars 2. Ignoring builds because they’re atypical could make you ignore some strong builds.

Metabattle might not be a good forum for squishier builds from top players, as squishy builds may not be feasibly pulled off by the majority of the playerbase.

Hence why you see people choosing Rabid over Carrion and overlooking Killshot.

On a completely unrelated note, your signature bothers me Shockwave.
Race Class – Name
Race Class – Name
Name – Race Class
STAHP