Guild Wars 2

Please redesign the maps
Because you have to hold the captured point, that’s how all these bunker builds come to live. The current meta is extremely unhealthy for the game. As many players predict if you nerf one bunker build, another bunker build will come up and take its place, then it becomes a cycle, the problem isn’t bunkering. The problem is in the map design.
AND i’m extremely fed up with the current bunker meta.

geekilo.8512:

Please redesign the maps
Because you have to hold the captured point, that’s how all these bunker builds come to live. The current meta is extremely unhealthy for the game. As many players predict if you nerf one bunker build, another bunker build will come up and take its place, then it becomes a cycle, the problem isn’t bunkering. The problem is in the map design.
AND i’m extremely fed up with the current bunker meta.

problem is not bunkers, we had shoutbow, bunk guard & many other bunkers in the past. its just that boon spam & power creep have gone way too far.

double bunker, double damage, bruiser is a solid & fine team comp. but not if there is no variety in classes that can play those roles competitively.

Bunker mes is the most boring thing I’ve seen. I main mesmer in pvp practically, I have almost a thousand mesmer matches. Bunker mes drives me nuts because I see them make so many mistakes, like rookie ones. Such as they use distortion when no one’s targetting them, using continuum split and auto attacking, healing when they have full hp, and so on, but they don’t get punished. All they do is keep the defense up and bore me to death. Also, played against 2 in a party, we won with 500-200ish and it took 12min. 12 friggen minutes of slowly but surely winning. It wasn’t fun. I’ve also had a lot of fun using portal against them cause there is nothing they can do to keep up with me other then learn, but considering how easy it is they won’t. I also have yet to die to one. I never see 2 bunk mes and think “crap we lose” but instead “this is going to take a while.” In the pro leagues I saw monday, it was boring. Really boring. The abjured match was alright but only because the matches weren’t slower than a quadriplegic turtle, which was mostly due to the abjured losing the second match. A single bunker isn’t the issue (which is why eu is still fun to watch), however it’s the teamfight’s they excel in since they share their defensive abilities. This is an oversight. I don’t mind having chronos having support, it’s great, but aoe invuln for 3s every 30s? That’s 10% invuln for the team, from one skill. They also have the aoe distortion help, the gravity well, well of eternity and chaos field. Adding another on top of this pretty much makes any fight with both of them in it a stalemate, and that’s a snooze fest.

What I miss in pvp is pretty much entirely what mesmer changed out of. I miss portals making clutch moves, changing the shape of the map. I will never forget TCG portalling in, to kill the lord while there’s only 5 more seconds in the match, taking the win. Sure bunker mes could take portal, but they won’t have the burst. It’s (or was rather) fun to watch a mesmer and a thief come out of stealth and nuke an unsuspecting player to 0hp. Now that’s unlikely to happen even with a shatter mes and thief pouncing on a player cause they’re just too tanky.

We can, right now, try to find a counter to this, because anet isn’t going to nerf anything. Well of precognition is a pain, since it doesn’t prevent point capture contribution and has a pseudo 30s cooldown. I find there isn’t much condition removal outside of their heal skill and allies, so a reaper/condi rev should be able to hurt them and a scrapper in the right hands could take them down. Having a high mobility team can also help, provided you move faster and can out dps the rest of the teams sustain. This team comp is pretty much just eu’s or the abjured’s, and honestly it’s still at a disadvantage due to the whole chrono +chrono = immortality.

Maybe a dev will fix this by, idk making well of precog prevent point cap, or by making it a block or by changing it back to giving allies unblockability. I doubt it, but this is an issue because it’s making pvp boring. As much as pure trap dragon hunters make me angry i’d preffer a team of pure glass cannon’s nuking each other; see last week’s highlight of “get your shovel’s out boys” for an example.

It’s sad that this is being blown out to Dhuumfire proportions, except teams NEED to cheese to win rather than individual skill actually showing who is good. There NEEDS to be a mid season balance just to save face at this point but anet is so stubborn to do so. I think players will look aside to cheese comps carrying in ranked queue, but fix your kittening game before you lose more people.

geekilo.8512:

Please redesign the maps
Because you have to hold the captured point, that’s how all these bunker builds come to live. The current meta is extremely unhealthy for the game. As many players predict if you nerf one bunker build, another bunker build will come up and take its place, then it becomes a cycle, the problem isn’t bunkering. The problem is in the map design.
AND i’m extremely fed up with the current bunker meta.

+1 need more map options.

Blame Aoe
Any kind of aoe has no skill in it its a random hit,so they gave us aoe defensses aka wells.

Ther was not so much cleave also
Long time ago you had to think about fields and how best to use them and make team comp revolving around Roles.
Now there is no roles since every 1 can sustain ,dps u name it.

I’m sad to see everyone reroll to cheeze builds even in ESL but I can undestand it when you have to play for $. I’m also sad there are at least 2 revs or 2 bunker mesmers or 2 tempests per game in each team. These bunker builds don’t promote skillfull gameplay.

Yesterday, I faced some on who normaly , mechanicaly is way below my skillcap (Before HOT) but he was playing bunker with another bunker and a revevant and no matter how much damage he took , how much skills he simply random dodges and how many random skills he used it took ages to kill him and in the end rev (trait) + bunkers quickness rez prevented him to be cleaved or stomped. After a long time, because we played a non bunker comp we lost to the sustain of these classes. And I feel sorry to lose to people who don’t doge high tells and it doesn’t matter cause if your team isn’t like theirs they will finaly out sustain you no matter how much you work for it.

I’m leaving this game , and will come back when balance will be better. I Invite anyone who doesn’t like the current state of pvp right now to do the same.

Playing a mes I have to say that in the new meta of very high passive condi pressure damage (e.g. burning never was re-adjusted) and direct damage I adjusted my build to survive. I kept tweaking it to add survivability, because at the beginning I was dying in secs on an old build+ chrono. Before I knew it I was running a variant bunker build before I even knew it was a chrono bunker build.

This is a build I developed independently in response to the new meta. I’m sure other people run some variant of it for their own reasons, but in my eyes (for pugs anyway) it is the natural conclusion to the overall increase in damage, condis, and introduced interrupt engi and tempest fields (air overload). The lack of good condi removal unless you spec a whole trait line and stability (there is only one good trait for this) means chrono bunker is not going away soon with the current state of things. On an additional note chrono isn’t the only bunker type that is a pain. I’ve found fights as a chron with Rev, engi, tempest and druid can be quite a drawn out fight 1v1, with one unable to kill the other depending on build.

Abimes.9726:

I’m sad to see everyone reroll to cheeze builds even in ESL but I can undestand it when you have to play for $. I’m also sad there are at least 2 revs or 2 bunker mesmers or 2 tempests per game in each team. These bunker builds don’t promote skillfull gameplay.

Money explains a lot of things but to be honest it is mostly about winning in general and that’s why even non pro league teams are playing those comps. It is obviously less fun to play but at the end, you will have more fun by winning with those comps than getting rekt because you did not wanted to.

It’s just a shame that this meta had to be the one for the first proleague – it really threatens to completely kill the GW2 esport scene before it even starts.

Aside from the obvious balance problems – it just makes it boring to look at AND play. I find it fairly funny that tweaks to the visual noise got precedence over everything else, when what there is to see in the first place is mindnumblingly boring.

This proleague NEEDS some small balance patches during its course. Anet cannot afford to leave things as they are until next season, because by then there won’t be anyone left actually watching.

This is by the worst if not among the worst meta GW2 ever had.

Nothing beat CONDI burst from REV.

Find all the patches you want, all the skillful players maining a classes for 3 years (thieves, warriors, guardians) got their main “off meta” and become obsolete by this.

In 2014, they did that to bunker guard with 2 dd ele comp. It was the right choice because the damage pressure of bunker guard in 2v2 is pathetic. Anet never buff up bunker guard damage.

Now in 2015, thief and warrior are in the same boat. I am happy to see that others got that nerf bat hard. The 2015 era is more vocal than the 2014. Why? Bunker like to support people up. DPS like to burst people up. What happen when you kill a DPS main classes? Outrage.

REVENANT need to get cooldown or their Energy management need to be tune to be inline with other classes DPS classes. (so we can go back to bruisers trying to be bunker, and have less snooze fest…)

It’s funny… people blame the bunker, but we play bunker to survive versus REVENANT OPness (or even reaper constant condi pressure, or both).

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

What?! The issue here is power creep. We need a lot of nerfs, not buffs…

I feel the issue is caused by nerfs in the first place. Look at the mess that warrior now is, based on the adrenaline nerf and countless others. Druid nerfed numerous times.

Often the classes that are out of control are those whose natural counters have been nerfed. So what we need to do is buff those up so that the balance is restored.

Unfortunately.5940:

First 2 pages of the pvp subforum are currently devoid of any dev response, even though they’re filled with legitimate complaints. Anet is so involved with their playerbase.

still no worst than WvW subforum.

Warrior forums as been a dead zone for quite some time.

here is another suggestion even it might be hard to implement

instead of amulet, give the players the choice to choose from all the possibilities from a total amount of points
so i can build for a unique states which are perfect to me and my play style
like thief can be with more hp, low toughness, high power and crit dmg and chance which can be change for each thief . one will take more power and other will take more toughness as he might be beginner.

this will make the meta not to be fixed rather versatile according to player lvl and taste and his group composition

ppl wont be able to copy top tier builds as they fight in a group so can be allowed to play with less toughness and health etc.. so no fix metabuild anymore

Too many people make the mistake in thinking that A-net really cares about spvp much at all. I’m not saying they don’kittens just pretty minimal. When you look at the resources this game generates and i’ve read upwards of high teens in millions per month you will see that the modest investments they have made in spvp and even things like 200k prize pools are nothing more then low cost lottery tickets bought. If they hit and spvp takes off they win. Even if they lose they will continue to profit from the pve side of the game.

VladR.9827:

Ara.4569:

Can’t you, pro players, protest ? Like both teams of each match refusing to fight ?

You could still have a winner by running internal matches to determine the team that will cap a point on stream. That would require trust, while there’s money to win, so I don’t expect much…

But I expect absolutely nothing from Anet for the next 2 months, and that’s just infuriating.

this! +1

CANT YOU PRO PLAYERS JUST GO ON STRIKE?! – all of you make an agreement and just demand a fix?

Anet is clearly ALL about the money so this will hit them the most – the kittening wake up call ANET !

What I would find funny and would make a statement is if all teams ran 5 bunker mesmers or 5 condition revenants, would be embarrassing to Anet for slacking on balance patches.

But that won’t ever happen cause…
Money.

E-Sports should never allow bunkers to outlive Burst builds. Imagine if League of Legends were design that way where bunkers can live forever. Would it still be successful? The key to having a good spectator game is to see players getting killed or a whole team getting wiped. These pillow case fighting is bad for the game and the sport.

Gw2 has too many defensive mechanisms and too many ways to heal. I think all profession needs to get gutted so they have less defensive abilities. It’s time to bring back the offensive builds.

The easiest way to determine if the a bunker is too good is to have a greatsword warrior try to kill it without it fighting back. IF the warrior can’t kill it in under 2 minutes, then it needs more nerfs to its defensive abilities.

Thanks for all the feedback boys/girls! Hopefully Devs will take a time to read these comments and consider to do something in mid-season. I believe everyone including pro league players will love to see a mid-season balance patch happen.

Jourdelune.7456:

It’s funny… people blame the bunker, but we play bunker to survive versus REVENANT OPness (or even reaper constant condi pressure, or both).

This right there, bunker build are the consequence of Anet’s terrible balance giving crazy bursts to not just Rev but Guard, Chrono and Reaper as well. It’s not what is imbalanced.

It’s like blaming eles for using Diamond Skin, while an ele without Diamond Skin has absolutely no chance to win against a reaper because it will get locked out of attunements and skills because of the constant application of chill. In the current condi-heavy meta eles have no choice but to use Diamond Skin, it’s not the cause of the problem, it’s the consequence.

The games just bad. Period.

The meta has never been so unstable, there are so many cancerous bunker mesmers & condi revs running around who actually think they’re a good player.

The developers in charge of balance need to be fired, seriously, it’s never been this bad before, and they’re not even going to attempt to fix it until kittening february? and you want this kitten to be e-sports?! Are you kittening out of your mind!?

Xillllix.3485:

Jourdelune.7456:

It’s funny… people blame the bunker, but we play bunker to survive versus REVENANT OPness (or even reaper constant condi pressure, or both).

This right there, bunker build are the consequence of Anet’s terrible balance giving crazy bursts to not just Rev but Guard, Chrono and Reaper as well. It’s not what is imbalanced.

It’s like blaming eles for using Diamond Skin, while an ele without Diamond Skin has absolutely no chance to win against a reaper because it will get locked out of attunements and skills because of the constant application of chill. In the current condi-heavy meta eles have no choice but to use Diamond Skin, it’s not the cause of the problem, it’s the consequence.

As an ele main I completely agree to this.

I was daring to run marauder, but soon thereafter I realized that necros, revs and engis were eating me alive, and this is while they were substantially tanky themselves… I had no choice but to drop marauder for celestial and get into water for a chance to live.

everyone needs to be ballanced to the level of core engi imo. scrapper could use a short CD increase on rocket charge & that would bring it in line w core engi.

warrior needs a rework, theif probably just needs to be bumped up to medium health pool. rev needs heavy nerfs, as does chrono, tempest etc. obviously there are other things ive missed, because i only play a few classes but ive always been pretty happy with core engi. its got nice build variety & performs well in a number of roles. most of its issues are either bugs, or related to poor grandmaster traits. it seems a good power level to ballance around, it feels goid to play & good to fight. its git defined strengths & weaknesses.

Remember when ApeX won by running 3 bunkers, 1 sustain dps, and a dps? I remember that. 4Head. This is the same meta, just run the bullkitten like everyone used to and it’ll all be good. Eventually there will be a dps comp that will come out and beat it like the last time.

I hardly believe arenanet will implement any patch mid-season. I think it’s more realistic to be considering changes to ESL rules, such as class-stacking.

Doon.2364:

E-Sports should never allow bunkers to outlive Burst builds. Imagine if League of Legends were design that way where bunkers can live forever. Would it still be successful?

Yes, you would just ignore them and do the objective. Problem in GW2 aren’t bunkers themselves, but objective in Conquest.

Slininstien.7546:

Remember when ApeX won by running 3 bunkers, 1 sustain dps, and a dps? I remember that. 4Head. This is the same meta, just run the bullkitten like everyone used to and it’ll all be good. Eventually there will be a dps comp that will come out and beat it like the last time.

Not even the same. The problem with our old comp or weakness was 5 dps with heavy condi pressure or a comp with mobility, hence why Kpex gave us a fight when they added a theif. The bunker mesmer takes away every weakness any bunker class ever had. Hence Anets excuse to never give bunker guard mobility. But bunker mesmer not only has passive movement speed, it has portal and can tank better then any bunker ever in the existence of GW2.

yanoch.7051:

Warrior forums as been a dead zone for quite some time.

Lol because everyone caught the hint.

Thats gonna happen to every place in the game. PvE players are not happy. WvW players are not happy. PvP players are not happy.

Its seriously at every level and its getting to the point where for most of us. It might be time to take a 3-6 month break from GW2 since anet might be thinking everything is ok.

Ostrich Eggs currently streaming as…………….. you guessed it bunker chrono!!

Sounds almost like he wants to quit the game while the current meta remains in effect.