Guild Wars 2

The finals were postponed this Sunday for NA. The finals video is below.

Good match, backpacks mesmer OP

Nothing new. NA scene as boring as always.

Overall Strategy Synopsis
Apex had a better opening start but lost the team fights in both mid and home which resulted in a tri-cap.

After a full wipe on home, Apex rotated a war and thief, towards far which was a great strategy because it not only lured Abjured off home/mid but also because these two classes could litterally kite the whole map if they had to.

Thereafter, Apex sent the rest in mid, the Thief went back to mid, and the Warrior went back to 1v1 an Ele at far

This 4 mid 1 far (4/1) strategy resulted in a quick 2 man wipe in mid on Team Apex

During the mid wipe
Apex’s Thief started to rotate off towards far, then their guardian soon after. The tanky warrior with half health did absolutely no damage against the ele on far for the thief to +1 and gank quickly. Abjured’s Ele went on defense mode and tanked both classes until the rest of his team got there (which wasn’t long).

Rest of Abjured rotated far and wiped the rest of Apex.

While far was getting cleaned up by Team Abjured, Team Apex slowly sent respawns to Home. Abjure’s Mesmer who scouting mid, saw the rotation and got to home first. (The Mesmer actually pulled off a burst that brought ele down to 50%, forcing him off point for a few seconds)
The heavy sustaining bruiser classes that Abjured is, got to home 1 by 1, engaging the rest of Apex team until the timer ran out.

Conclusion
Apex’s biggest mistakes were rotations. They weren’t able to win any 4/1 or 3/2 team fight. Nor could they ever 1v1 that Ele on far point unless that War was a Mesmer. The

Thief could have +1 far sooner to help the Warrior or simply rotate off to decap home.

If Apex did a 1/2/2 split the moment Thief and War initially trolled far, the game would have looked a bit differently.

Nothing new…mesmers, thieves eles and rampagers rule. Viva la balance.

Ragnarox.9601:

Nothing new…mesmers, thieves eles and rampagers rule. Viva la balance.

how did rampage win? They used it to run away and lets mention the stuff that beats rampage

1-plague
2-moa from mesmer and moa from engy (yes the 3 sec tool belt skills makes rampage elite useless)
3- conditions from classes that range
4- any good mesmer

(in my chris carter voice) come on man

Yep yep, ofc 2 Ele + 1 Mes team will dominate.
And ofc Necro and Ranger is not needed as always.
And ofc Anet gonna buff Mesmer and Ele more,
while keep on nerfing Ranger and Necro (plz check the update note lol)
And ofc some scrubs will gonna defend Mes and Ele and say they’re always underpowered and are the “abused children”
And ofc Anet is going to listen to them and let them have their ways.

GW2 cycle never ends. Always the same.

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

phokus.8934:

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.

Amazing.

At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?

Thanks.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

phokus.8934:

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.

Amazing.

At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?

Thanks.

The thing is, Thieves don’t even counter Mesmers as hard as they used to. Apex’s Thief didn’t +1 or backcap nodes like a Thief should… in fact.. that’s the only reason why people take Thieves to begin with.

If you have an Ele who’s on Home duty majority of the time, and teef can’t control the Mesmer, why bring a teef at all? They’re incredibly undervalued in 3v3+ zerg fiestas. Any other class will out perform him in this regards.

If you’re going to double up on Ele’s and grab a Mesmer, a Thief isn’t needed. Grab yourself a Warrior or Engi/Guardian/Necro for the CC and you’re set.

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Hopefully NA builds some longer lasting better teams, it doesn’t seem like Abjured fights any equal teams until the WTS comes around, it kinda ruins the NA stream for me.

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

False.
Ele’s sustains through peels and overall resiliency in many scenarios, is the reason why it’s been OP for the longest time. It’s perfectly timed Fire Attunement bursts just adds salt to the wound.

Elementalists have always been weak against knockdown effects. It’s why Tage’s hammerguard did so well in team fights, the build can lock down not just 1 player but multiple players at once; long enough to burst down the class.

Saiyan.1704:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

phokus.8934:

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.

Amazing.

At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?

Thanks.

The thing is, Thieves don’t even counter Mesmers as hard as they used to. Apex’s Thief didn’t +1 or backcap nodes like a Thief should… in fact.. that’s the only reason why people take Thieves to begin with.

If you have an Ele who’s on Home duty majority of the time, and teef can’t control the Mesmer, why bring a teef at all? They’re incredibly undervalued in 3v3+ zerg fiestas. Any other class will out perform him in this regards.

If you’re going to double up on Ele’s and grab a Mesmer, a Thief isn’t needed. Grab yourself a Warrior or Engi/Guardian/Necro for the CC and you’re set.

Agreed with this. I really hunk a Mesmer does what a thief did better now (at least until ele is nerfed).

@ Phokus: Cele really isn’t the issue anymore. Shout warrior is a shadow of it’s former self and even cele engi is arguably weaker than pre-patch. Ele is the only build that really dominates in cele amulet right now.

Right and as I said, so long as a class is a tank and damage dealer, celestial is here to stay. With the changes to traits, there’s a reason why Warrior Shoutbow doesn’t exist anymore. That’s a different story with Eles, though.

phokus.8934:

Right and as I said, so long as a class is a tank and damage dealer, celestial is here to stay. With the changes to traits, there’s a reason why Warrior Shoutbow doesn’t exist anymore. That’s a different story with Eles, though.

But it’s ok to have a hybrid damage dealer/tank with cele amulet, as long as it doesn’t make pure damage dealers and/or pure bunkers irrelevant. Right now, there’s only one class doing that…which indicates that this is a class problem, not an amulet one.

Saiyan.1704:

Elementalists have always been weak against knockdown effects. It’s why Tage’s hammerguard did so well in team fights, the build can lock down not just 1 player but multiple players at once; long enough to burst down the class.

Not anymore.
You can pick Earth > Fire in games where enemies got heavy CC team and you will not only counter burst by going into Earth, but also counter CC by granting yourself stablity.

wowow thanks @Storm!!

Gonna watch it in my break.

Would change the title to indicate this was for the weekly which already happened, not for the monthly final tonight.

I think I need a new game. Overwatch cant come soon enough. most of us are pretty fed up with these scrub devs

The reason i stopped watching those esl matches is because my favourite class ( Ranger ) is barely represented.
I dont know, i just wanted to mention it

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Edited to respond to Morwath:

If Ele can only dish out damage, they’d never have been problematic in the first place, because most classes can do the same.
It is the fact that you can never kill them if they trait and play it right that leads to the most problems. And the reason why you can’t kill them is because of the new trait system that grant permanent protection on hit, on aura, auto proc aura for auto CC and auto chill, auto proc boons, immune to crit that counters any burst, etc, that allows Ele to live forever, while simultaneously dish out damages with the new abusive burning damage. Not to mention the sigil abuse (bleed/poison or might spamming) by doing their normal rotation which is actually easier than most people claimed to be.

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Edited to respond to Morwath:

If Ele can only dish out damage, they’d never have been problematic in the first place, because most classes can do the same.
It is the fact that you can never kill them if they trait and play it right that leads to the most problems. And the reason why you can’t kill them is because of the new trait system that grant permanent protection on hit, on aura, auto proc aura for auto CC and auto chill, auto proc boons, immune to crit that counters any burst, etc, that allows Ele to live forever, while simultaneously dish out damages with the new abusive burning damage. Not to mention the sigil abuse (bleed/poison or might spamming) by doing their normal rotation which is actually easier than most people claimed to be.

With a class like ele that has more buttons and cooldowns than ele class (except engi with full kits), I think they’re fine with a few passive traits, lol.

That being said, I agree that the effectiveness of these traits is beyond what they should be, which is the core of the balance issue.

Exciton.8942:

Nothing new. NA scene as boring as always.

I didn’t even watch it.

So why do I feel this comment is 100% accurate? :’ )

Morwath.9817:

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Morwath.9817:

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

So do you think you can’t do active swapping while maintaining all the new passive procs that applied to Ele? Ele can do that before the patch, but post patch they got those active defense IN ADDITION to all the new passive proc aura, passive proc vigor/protection when hit, passive damage reduction traits all in one build while maintaining all the old stuffs. Can’t you see the difference?

They go from “hard to kill” to "unkillable in 1 on 1 or even 2 v 1 " thanks to all these new tools can’t you see? Toughness on amulets do nothing to enhance the bulkiness in this Meta (That’s why Celestial Engi got a huge hit), but having those auto protection, auto stun, auto chill, auto -10% damage, auto crit immune, auto heal by hitting air beats any toughness and vitality. Warrior is very easy to kill right now. They rely on 2 endure pain procs to survive because vitality and toughness absolutely do them no good at all.

Toxsa.2701:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Morwath.9817:

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

So do you think you can’t do active swapping while maintaining all the new passive procs that applied to Ele? Ele can do that before the patch, but post patch they got those active defense IN ADDITION to all the new passive proc aura, passive proc vigor/protection when hit, passive damage reduction traits all in one build while maintaining all the old stuffs. Can’t you see the difference?

They go from “hard to kill” to "unkillable in 1 on 1 or even 2 v 1 " thanks to all these new tools can’t you see? Toughness on amulets do nothing to enhance the bulkiness in this Meta (That’s why Celestial Engi got a huge hit), but having those auto protection, auto stun, auto chill, auto -10% damage, auto crit immune, auto heal by hitting air beats any toughness and vitality. Warrior is very easy to kill right now. They rely on 2 endure pain procs to survive because vitality and toughness absolutely do them no good at all.

LOL
What kind of players can’t beat an Elementalist 2v1? Hell, I bet if I get my buddy and we both run shatter spike Mesmers with CLERIC amulet we’d still beat any Elementalist 2v1.

This is more of a skill issue than a balance one. As I said, any Elementalist that sits in Earth Attunement for crit immunity is dumb and will die, unless you are even worse than the Elementalist you are fighting.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Toxsa.2701:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Morwath.9817:

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

So do you think you can’t do active swapping while maintaining all the new passive procs that applied to Ele? Ele can do that before the patch, but post patch they got those active defense IN ADDITION to all the new passive proc aura, passive proc vigor/protection when hit, passive damage reduction traits all in one build while maintaining all the old stuffs. Can’t you see the difference?

They go from “hard to kill” to "unkillable in 1 on 1 or even 2 v 1 " thanks to all these new tools can’t you see? Toughness on amulets do nothing to enhance the bulkiness in this Meta (That’s why Celestial Engi got a huge hit), but having those auto protection, auto stun, auto chill, auto -10% damage, auto crit immune, auto heal by hitting air beats any toughness and vitality. Warrior is very easy to kill right now. They rely on 2 endure pain procs to survive because vitality and toughness absolutely do them no good at all.

LOL
What kind of players can’t beat an Elementalist 2v1? Hell, I bet if I get my buddy and we both run shatter spike Mesmers with CLERIC amulet we’d still beat any Elementalist 2v1.

This is more of a skill issue than a balance one. As I said, any Elementalist that sits in Earth Attunement for crit immunity is dumb and will die, unless you are even worse than the Elementalist you are fighting.

I said SOMETIMES because not all builds are dps builds zzzzz.
If unfortunately one of you guys is a bunker build that’s not ele (which means low dps), chances are you still can’t kill them 2 v 1.

Guess you’re one of those who abused the current bunker Ele atm. Dw, I’m with you now because I got tired of playing inferior classes that Anet hates.

Also I find it hilarious that people kept trying to make up outdated info as to how difficult it is to play Ele. The current Ele is face-rolled easy to play mind you, stop thinking you’re those “skillful individuals” who win because “I’m very skillful”, not because “I’m playing an Ele.”

Nova Stiker.8396:

LOL
What kind of players can’t beat an Elementalist 2v1? Hell, I bet if I get my buddy and we both run shatter spike Mesmers with CLERIC amulet we’d still beat any Elementalist 2v1.

This is more of a skill issue than a balance one. As I said, any Elementalist that sits in Earth Attunement for crit immunity is dumb and will die, unless you are even worse than the Elementalist you are fighting.

I love it!!

“Hey, I bet if I get my buddy and we both run the (arguably) second most OP spec/class at the moment that we can beat the first most!”

Yeah, I would think you could. Now just substitute that second part (about shatter spike Mesmers) with say Rangers or Warriors wearing those Cleric amulets and let’s see how well you fare against a D/D/ Elementalist.

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

Nova Stiker.8396:

Morwath.9817:

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

And what has your blablabla anything with my statement that going Earth makes ele much more tanky while losing loads of damage provided by Fire?

Btw do you realize that “can’t” be crit means:
→ ~87% less extra damage taken from possible critical hits vs Marauders (less extra ~109% vs Zerker) AND completly disables Air/Fire Sigils reducing overall damage taken by more than 60% >_>’…
…so if you properly roll attunements you can counter majority of incoming burst?

Archon.6480:

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

So it’s ok for the rest of the classes to perform well, but not ranger right? Whenever you see a ranger is doing good, we gotta nerf it ASAP so it goes back into the depth of hell once more right?

Anet watchinf ESL:
“Hmm, those Eles and Mesmers are doing very well in PVP right now, all teams have them, and they perform exceptionally well! This looks balanced, I like it!”

10 mins later…

“Wait! WTH is this ranger doing!? How can they beat that Ele and Mesmer!? This is not intended! Need to Hot-fix ASAP! Geez, the guy in charge of ranger is doing a horrible job! How dare a ranger out-perform the Meta classes like Mesmer, Ele, Warrior, and Thief?”

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6480:

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

So it’s ok for the rest of the classes to perform well, but not ranger right? Whenever you see a ranger is doing good, we gotta nerf it ASAP so it goes back into the depth of hell once more right?

It certainly seems that way. Rangers are the villains that all the hero classes have to slaughter. And we all know the villains are weaker than the heroes…

Nova Stiker.8396:

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

“If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements,”

Elementalists are the most Passive classes in the game…

Eles don’t change attunements because they’re reacting to an enemy’s skill… they change attunements for the Might Stacks and Prot/Regen Boons. Numerous Ele’s use the Might stacking rotation even if they’re not physically near an enemy! The issue is, they Don’t stick to an attunement as part of a Reactive playstyle…

Nova Stiker.8396:

LOL
What kind of players can’t beat an Elementalist 2v1? Hell, I bet if I get my buddy and we both run shatter spike Mesmers with CLERIC amulet we’d still beat any Elementalist 2v1.

Do you realize how OP Mesmers are too? A single Mesmer in the above ESL video bursted the Ele’s to 50% health. Saying “Well two mesmers can kill him” is an arrogant remark, considering it just takes one Mesmer to do the job.

The only skill Elementalists take is their survivability rotations. It’s enough to 2v1 just long enough to receive support, or quite simply, peel away and roam elsewhere like the above video showed.

Nova Stiker.8396:

This is more of a skill issue than a balance one. As I said, any Elementalist that sits in Earth Attunement for crit immunity is dumb and will die, unless you are even worse than the Elementalist you are fighting.

Thanks for that info Sherlock. Mobility skills that removes you from combat, like Ride the Lightning, is better than sitting in Earth attunement and running around like a headless chicken.

It’s an imbalance mechanical issue, not a skill one. Cele Ele have too much resiliency for the amount of damage they can produce.

Archon.6480:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6480:

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

So it’s ok for the rest of the classes to perform well, but not ranger right? Whenever you see a ranger is doing good, we gotta nerf it ASAP so it goes back into the depth of hell once more right?

It certainly seems that way. Rangers are the villains that all the hero classes have to slaughter. And we all know the villains are weaker than the heroes…

Rangers should spend less time asking for nerfs for other classes and focus on what their class needs improvement. Antagonizing other players is the main reason rangers aren’t well liked.

DaShi.1368:

Rangers should spend less time asking for nerfs for other classes and focus on what their class needs improvement. Antagonizing other players is the main reason rangers aren’t well liked.

Excuse me? Have you been to the ranger forums at all? Half the first page is composed of threads pointing out bugs, suggestions to fix spirits, shouts, traps, increasing offhand range, etc. Suggestions on how to fix pets, or adding new pets. I don’t see ONE single thread about nerfing other classes. Yeah sure there are occasional complaints about about eles/mesmers or whatever, but the VAST majority are suggestions and bug tips.

DaShi.1368:

Archon.6480:

Toxsa.2701:

Archon.6480:

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

So it’s ok for the rest of the classes to perform well, but not ranger right? Whenever you see a ranger is doing good, we gotta nerf it ASAP so it goes back into the depth of hell once more right?

It certainly seems that way. Rangers are the villains that all the hero classes have to slaughter. And we all know the villains are weaker than the heroes…

Rangers should spend less time asking for nerfs for other classes and focus on what their class needs improvement. Antagonizing other players is the main reason rangers aren’t well liked.

Please go check, just go check the ranger forums.
None of them are asking for nerf of other classes, all we ask is to fix our issues and stop nerfing us endlessly! Yet what do we get here? Another kick in the groan from Anet!
And guess what, you guys are the one who ask for it!

“OMG Taunt too OP because how dare that pitiful ranger beats me!? This should not be possible! NERF IT!”

Also people who agree that Mesmers and Ele need tone down is EVERYONE EXCEPT Mesmer and Ele! Stop antagonize Ranger for doing so. In fact other classes ask for Ele and Mesmer nerf much more because more people are playing these classes!

Responding to Dashi:
True only to no-one but yourself.

My statement remains true.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Morwath.9817:

Toxsa.2701:

phokus.8934:

So long as celestial <anything> is around that is tanky and puts out damage, that’s always going to be part of the meta. Eles benefit greatly here mainly because burning can be stacked by one ele fairly high and it provides a ton of damage per tick.

If they tweak burning (application? damage?) then the meta could shift. But there are other tweaks that need to happen before this changes. It’s an extremely sad state that meta comps does eliminate half professions but this new patch is leaps and bounds better than before.

With all that said, the meta could change. The patch is still relatively new, tournaments are just starting to happen, and teams are trying to find what works for them and counteracts other comps. I’m all for the meta playing out which is why I’d love to see some minor tweaks that are needed now which won’t kitten a class.

I won’t even mention Ranger because ANet just hates them.

Ele works greatly not because of celestial, but because of new messed up OP traits.
If you take a close look on all those new Aura abuses, as well as numerous strong boons that grant permanent protection WHEN GETTING HIT (promote passive play), as well as passive play of immune to crit when attune to Earth, you should get a pretty solid picture as to why Ele is OP now. Those -% damage things or auto soft-cc/hard cc aura thing , in conjunction of numerous heals, outweighs any toughness. In fact, toughness almost do nothing under the current system. I played a Rabid Engineer, and I feel like I’m playing a berserker because it still goes down in 2 seconds when someone hits me with a burst. Only passive procs and passive damage reduction, and passive CC like auras will save you. That’s the truth behind why most classes can NEVER kill a D/D Ele.

Earth Ele deals meh damage and even as D/D is a bit like a bunker.
Fire Ele is the one that stacks Might as mad.

The lack of knowledge about the Elementalist is astounding…
_

The only “Passive” Elementalist is a dead one. If you lose to an Elementalist, it’s probably because he was constantly swapping attunements, if you sit in one attunement you are going to deal little damage and die. Elementalists is the most active playstyle class in the game.

Oh and all Grandmaster Earth traits are still horrible, no smart Elementalist stays in Earth Attunement more than 2 seconds (lulz, immunity to crits ONLY in earth?), immunity to conditions at a certain health threshold is absolutely useless in any team fight and there is no reason to carry any Signet other than Signet of Earth if you are bringing a zerker spike build.

_

Earth Attunement needs to be less about mechanic denial and more about play style.

Well, lets not act like swapping to earth is some major achievement. Every single defensive trait is centered around earth and imo that’s a bad thing. If you play with stone heart, swapping to earth is basically going god mode. Yeah, you’re not going to camp there, but stone heart with protection and Geomancer’s defense provide way too much defense for just one button press.

Elemental Contigiency needs to be removed, there’s no reason ele should have more protection than what comes from EA. I would also like to see a rework for Diamond Skin and Stone heart.

Fire line needs to be toned down, the mightstacking is way too high.

Burning needs to be nerfed.

Cleansing wave needs to be split again, it has no counterplay and same foes for Healing ripple.

DaShi.1368:

My statement remains true.

No, no it doesn’t. I don’t recall asking for anything to be nerfed. I am a bit astounded that Rangers were weakened considerably in the last patch. Most of us are scratching our heads wondering what’s up. We really don’t mind Rampage, shatter burst, thief backstab, etc, etc, as long as we can counter it, We Rangers are OK with it.

You haven’t convinced me.

DaShi.1368:

You haven’t convinced me.

What if I told you I main Ranger and use Mesmer as a secondary in PvP when I need a change of pace. Would that work?

Anyhow… Back on topic. This match was fun to watch. So much to learn.

Thanks to all participants on both teams!

Archon.6480:

It’s amazing the way the Abjured Ranger dominated mid halfway through the match!

ANet really needs to nerf healing spring because it totally carried that Ranger. And what about that evade spam and cheap perma quickness? Yeah that’s gotta go to, or else we will see everyone running ranger. Taunt is totally OP as well, it should be fixed. No one could touch that Ranger…

Wait. What Ranger? Do you have a link? Cause i havent seen a ranger at any tournament since the latest patch.. And Abjured have a Ranger? Wait is this a sarcasm?

Well celestial engi is pretty much dead right now, and so is non-zerker warrior, leaving eles and ironically necros as the best cele classes right now.

I’m glad that mesmer is good because it really was unviable for a long time because of thieves. Condition ranger has seen some very limited use but I do believe it can work.

nearlight.3064:

Well celestial engi is pretty much dead right now, and so is non-zerker warrior, leaving eles and ironically necros as the best cele classes right now.

I’m glad that mesmer is good because it really was unviable for a long time because of thieves. Condition ranger has seen some very limited use but I do believe it can work.

What? Condition ranger? You kidding?

They’re one of the weakest condition spammer among all the condition specs right now because of the lack of burning source (torch is useless, trap waste precious utility slot for survival, since ranger’s weapon, unlike Ele, got NONE built in survival skills), plus don’t dream of beating god-mode Ele (which abjure is running 2 now) with that pitiful condition spec that doesn’t even has much burning at all. (Sun spirit? Gl using that limited space, easily killlable piece of kitten in high end pvp)

Abjure will never take a ranger, that’s for sure. Even after so many lessons Anet still decide to nerf ranger. I am really curious to meet this person who’s in charge of ranger’s balance in person and ask him many logical questions.

Saiyan.1704:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

phokus.8934:

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.

Amazing.

At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?

Thanks.

The thing is, Thieves don’t even counter Mesmers as hard as they used to. Apex’s Thief didn’t +1 or backcap nodes like a Thief should… in fact.. that’s the only reason why people take Thieves to begin with.

If you have an Ele who’s on Home duty majority of the time, and teef can’t control the Mesmer, why bring a teef at all? They’re incredibly undervalued in 3v3+ zerg fiestas. Any other class will out perform him in this regards.

If you’re going to double up on Ele’s and grab a Mesmer, a Thief isn’t needed. Grab yourself a Warrior or Engi/Guardian/Necro for the CC and you’re set.

That’s what happens when you invite a thief to your team because it’s a girl and not because of her skill level. Apex had this one coming , not because of only the horrible playing by this thief, but they were trying weird kitten. They’ll probably tighten up their game in the future and find some unbeatable cheese bunker setup like before and win again.

nearlight.3064:

Well celestial engi is pretty much dead right now, and so is non-zerker warrior, leaving eles and ironically necros as the best cele classes right now.

I’m glad that mesmer is good because it really was unviable for a long time because of thieves. Condition ranger has seen some very limited use but I do believe it can work.

I think a lot of cele engis really need to give Soldier’s ammy a shot. Check out Bigzan on TCG in the recent EU ESL tourney for an idea of how well it can work.

“Backpack doesn’t have a great amount of experience as a Mesmer but Mesmer is so strong right now he doesn’t need to have a great amount of experience to be relatively effective. Its kinda like shoutbow warrior. You just need to be decent with it and you’ll be effective for your team” – Storm

Sums it up for GW2 atm. Balance patch my kittening kitten.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Saiyan.1704:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

phokus.8934:

Mesmer is not getting buffed more… not sure why or how you came to that strange conclusion.

Anyways, I was surprised to see Tarcis run with Longbow and not stick with Hammer. In a new game of max damage and control, Hammer is far superior.

We’re going to see more Mesmers as part of teams/comps because now the build is basically playing for them. Mantra of Distraction and Time Warp is pretty much going to RIP teams with focus fire.

Apex should have dropped the Guardian and brought in another Ele.

Your standard comp is starting to look like Ele, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, x. Possibly Necro because they’re super tanky right now but that should be the basic comp.

Wow. To release a patch that basically makes 4 out of 8 (half) of your classes in a game unviable in sPvP.

Amazing.

At least with these early games people who want to play sPvP can see what classes to roll and train on. I wonder if they will allow the Revenant to be viable in sPvP?

Thanks.

The thing is, Thieves don’t even counter Mesmers as hard as they used to. Apex’s Thief didn’t +1 or backcap nodes like a Thief should… in fact.. that’s the only reason why people take Thieves to begin with.

If you have an Ele who’s on Home duty majority of the time, and teef can’t control the Mesmer, why bring a teef at all? They’re incredibly undervalued in 3v3+ zerg fiestas. Any other class will out perform him in this regards.

If you’re going to double up on Ele’s and grab a Mesmer, a Thief isn’t needed. Grab yourself a Warrior or Engi/Guardian/Necro for the CC and you’re set.

That’s what happens when you invite a thief to your team because it’s a girl and not because of her skill level. Apex had this one coming , not because of only the horrible playing by this thief, but they were trying weird kitten. They’ll probably tighten up their game in the future and find some unbeatable cheese bunker setup like before and win again.

I assure you, Zoe was a great choice for apex and it’s wrong to suspect that apex chose zoe based solely on her gender. Thief is an inconsistent class that falls flat during certain games because of the minimal room for error.