Guild Wars 2

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Nutshel.7264:

Bhawb.7408:

Its being nerfed when the new specialization changes hit live, we’ve known that since they showed off the preview.

that’s what, half a year away? year? maybe more. They should srsly start fixing bs with higher frequency then once every half year.

Yday I had 1v1 downed state as ele vs necro. Necro got down first, before I went down he ate ligtnining strike, sigil flame strike, few auto attacks and arcane shield explosion… I still lost that 1v1

Some classes have more advantages in down-state, that’s class design. I think downstate specialty fits Necro quite well. People shouldn’t think they win the fight when put people to down state. In a team fight, down state means nothing because there’re plenty of ways for people to rev the teammates, and it’s totally intended.

Also class balance shouldn’t be considered v.s. each downstate. For example, if both you and warrior go down, you’d lost the fight because he’ll eventually stand up for awhile. When you down together with a ranger, ranger will eventually win because of pet rev. However, for thieves, mesmers, and ele, even though you can’t save yourself and win the down-state fight, your skills allow you to stall time until your teammates are able to help you. That’s entirely how balance works. And for engi… Yeah their down skills kinda suck, but at least they’re strong when they’re not down lol…

Please stop talking.

Everyone knows that downstate skills are not balanced at all and they should be. Rangers interrupting you several times and before you can actually atempt to stomp, they will be getting ressed. Necro who can one shot thief, zerker ele etc. from a downstate. ‘’Totally Intended’’ Yeah, right.

’’That’s how balance works.’’ Well, glad you are not on the balance team.

Or you can just use a stealth to cancel targeting from necro since their down 1 and 2 must have a target to cast?

For rangers, one blind from Guardian’s F1 is enough to cancel the interrupt from down 2 and wolf’s fear, because both of those skills hit extremely slow. Or you can pop block from focus, or you can use the famous shadow teleport stomp, or you can pomp invulnerable, or you can pop stability, or you can just cleave the body to death, or you can use ledges to block LoS.

I’m going to repeat that perfect word for newbie like you: L2P

You really don’t know what you’re talking about. You insult everyone here who disagrees with you and when they prove you wrong you just ignore it. The point wasn’t about how to deal with it, it was simply stating that it’s not balanced, but you just think it should be that way, but I’m not surprised you always defend the specs that takes least skill for what they do. You always tell anyone to l2p but then proceed to talk complete nonsense.

LOL, I don’t even play necro, but I sitll think their downstate is fine. If I get killed by a downed foe, I’d think it’s my own fault for burning up all my CD, or being careless, or not prepared for each of the downstate instead of crying about “OMG SO OP, NERF IT”

Also I’m not obliged to address every single posts. Whether you agree with me or not is none of my concern, nor my responsibility to answer any of your posts. I post to point out my point of view and my experience, that is all. Last note, newbie and learn to play is not an insulting statement. Go use a dictionary or ask your English teacher.

Nerf necros , nerf lich , nerf downstate , nerf chill of death , nerf deathshroud . This class is ruining balance atm . All teams stack necros and kitten the kitten out of everyone in ESL / WTS and go on . This class is present in all top teams and overused is every aspect of the game . Nerf it . Anet pls

Roe.3679:

Laraley.7695:

Roe.3679:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Nutshel.7264:

Bhawb.7408:

Its being nerfed when the new specialization changes hit live, we’ve known that since they showed off the preview.

that’s what, half a year away? year? maybe more. They should srsly start fixing bs with higher frequency then once every half year.

Yday I had 1v1 downed state as ele vs necro. Necro got down first, before I went down he ate ligtnining strike, sigil flame strike, few auto attacks and arcane shield explosion… I still lost that 1v1

Some classes have more advantages in down-state, that’s class design. I think downstate specialty fits Necro quite well. People shouldn’t think they win the fight when put people to down state. In a team fight, down state means nothing because there’re plenty of ways for people to rev the teammates, and it’s totally intended.

Also class balance shouldn’t be considered v.s. each downstate. For example, if both you and warrior go down, you’d lost the fight because he’ll eventually stand up for awhile. When you down together with a ranger, ranger will eventually win because of pet rev. However, for thieves, mesmers, and ele, even though you can’t save yourself and win the down-state fight, your skills allow you to stall time until your teammates are able to help you. That’s entirely how balance works. And for engi… Yeah their down skills kinda suck, but at least they’re strong when they’re not down lol…

Please stop talking.

Everyone knows that downstate skills are not balanced at all and they should be. Rangers interrupting you several times and before you can actually atempt to stomp, they will be getting ressed. Necro who can one shot thief, zerker ele etc. from a downstate. ‘’Totally Intended’’ Yeah, right.

’’That’s how balance works.’’ Well, glad you are not on the balance team.

QQ about necros and Rangers. Classic.

Wondering people do not like specs that take little skill and revolve around pressing one button. Classic.

If they take such little skill, then use some of your own and deal with the down state. It isn’t difficult. You’re a superior ele player, right? Much better than those necro and ranger players. You can do it. I believe in you.

Again, this goes back around to where other threads like this have gone if you don’t like the downed state, spinal shivers, or whatever, then you should advocate for builds that don’t require them or replace them effectively instead of whining about downed states of classes that aren’t viable.

i never understand this.

If a superior player playing a balanced, more technical build plays an inferior player that is using a low-skill, low-risk, high reward build then the win is not guaranteed for the player of superior skill.

All of these people who chant “well if necro 1 spam or ranger lb spam is so easy then you should be able to beat them no problem right??? or do you just suck, huehuehue” can’t seem to understand that the problem is that players who make bad choices, who are not good at their class, who use these unbalanced skills are able to kill people they otherwise wouldn’t stand a chance against.

Poorly balanced builds do well because they are poorly balanced, not because everyone somehow magically sucks against them. Furthermore in a game mode where team fights eclipse dueling scenarios, you cannot possibly anticipate or counter everything that comes from range or that out of your field of vision. Necros and rangers benefit greatly from having high burst range damage- something that if it is spammable is very hard to counter consistently if fights are even or lopsided.

This is why people complain about them.

Back to playing a kitten optimized meta instead of trying to break out in non-meta more satisfying builds.

…..Ranged dps?

I’d trade lich, downstate, cod, and lifeblast for the ability to pop out of nowhere and hit someone for 11k.

Why is anyone trying to defend the downstate dmg? The nerf is coming eventually, so even Anet thinks its too powerful.

Asudementio.8526:

i never understand this.

If a superior player playing a balanced, more technical build plays an inferior player that is using a low-skill, low-risk, high reward build then the win is not guaranteed for the player of superior skill.

All of these people who chant “well if necro 1 spam or ranger lb spam is so easy then you should be able to beat them no problem right??? or do you just suck, huehuehue” can’t seem to understand that the problem is that players who make bad choices, who are not good at their class, who use these unbalanced skills are able to kill people they otherwise wouldn’t stand a chance against.

Poorly balanced builds do well because they are poorly balanced, not because everyone somehow magically sucks against them. Furthermore in a game mode where team fights eclipse dueling scenarios, you cannot possibly anticipate or counter everything that comes from range or that out of your field of vision. Necros and rangers benefit greatly from having high burst range damage- something that if it is spammable is very hard to counter consistently if fights are even or lopsided.

This is why people complain about them.

Back to playing a kitten optimized meta instead of trying to break out in non-meta more satisfying builds.

This is not about beating necros or rangers. Yes, you can kill rangers easily, however it is a bit problematic with necros. They have so many passive procs (and the whole game itself), that it’s not healthy for the game. Wouldn’t be more fun if the game only offered specs that require skill and some thinking? I would say so. I think the community should pursue a game where the outcome of a fight is not dependent on procs and ‘’I win’’ buttons. The introduction of new sigil system that brought the fire + air combo was imo a step in the wrong direction. This is multiplied by necros depending on Chill of Death even more.

The reason rangers and necros get the most hate is simply because the whole profession revolves around pressing a few buttons, which is honestly a bad design, too. It is not true either that people only care about this and not the fact rangers and necros almost never appear in tournies. I’ve stated several times that I don’t want those classes out of game, I want them to be viable AND require skill. I mostly play fresh air and you can’t imagine how much I wish it wasn’t all about instant procs, although it’s balanced there by being extremely squishy, but in my opinion it’s still not what the spec should be about.

People still don’t understand the difference between premade groups/tournies and soloq. These specs are really cancer in soloq. As you cannot influence who you get on your team, you can hardly take care of everything by yourself and it’s gonna happen people will be dying to rangers and necros because they cannot deal with them. I’ve also had games when enemy team had 3+ power necros who would just pop Lich and win that way as you cannot coordinate with your team. It’s useless I put down reflect when my teammates don’t bother stand in it. Also, any burst or cc coordination in soloq is out of question.These specs are picked up by players who are fairly new to the game because the mechanics are extremely easy or by players who really like the class but have no other specs viable. And I think that’s wrong. People keep bringing the argument that these classes are not represented in tournies, however they can be very effective in soloq without putting much skill into it. Imo this is even multiplied by the poor matchmaking the game has atm.

If it was that strong, necros would be taken in tournaments. They aren’t, so it must not be. The FACT that necros, and also rangers aren’t taken in tournaments should be a much higher priority then people on the forums OPINIONS that they have OP or cheap mechanics.

Edit: in response to the last post

Laraley.7695:

Necros have 1 passive proc on the power build, that is it. You also know when it is coming, so it has direct counterplay far more than the meta builds that have absolutely no counterplay (engis instant cast ccs, warriors instant cast healing condition removals, guards instant damage and condition removal, steal on theives, shadowshot on thieves).

It is a myth that necros and rangers depend on pressing a few buttons. If you aren’t using all the skills available to you on those builds you aren’t playing them right. You can argue all you want about counterplay and skill required, but again power necro and longbow ranger are far less cheesy than the meta builds in terms of counterplay.

These specs aren’t cancer in soloq anymore than the meta builds. I’m much more excited to fight a power necro that doesn’t have much defense or a longbow ranger that I know I can lockdown versus a medi guard that has 5+ defensive cooldowns, instant cast damage and teleports, or a shoutbow that literally facerolls. Also, if your team lost to 3 power necros casting lich form its because your team was bad and probably would have lost anyway.

Here are the facts:

Necros and rangers have ample counterplay, that do not require serious group coordination. It isn’t that hard to call targets.

The actual meta builds have very little counterplay in comparison.

Necros and rangers are taken very rarely if at all in competitive pvp.

I can see how some of the stuff on these classes might be considered “cheap”, but if you nerf or remove the cheap stuff without giving a serious amount of buffs to these classes they will see no play at all. These are two of the least played classes in the game, and not wanted for many many things. The last thing they need is nerfs.

I love the juxtaposition of those last two posts.

Asudementio.8526:

Roe.3679:

Laraley.7695:

Roe.3679:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Nutshel.7264:

Bhawb.7408:

Its being nerfed when the new specialization changes hit live, we’ve known that since they showed off the preview.

that’s what, half a year away? year? maybe more. They should srsly start fixing bs with higher frequency then once every half year.

Yday I had 1v1 downed state as ele vs necro. Necro got down first, before I went down he ate ligtnining strike, sigil flame strike, few auto attacks and arcane shield explosion… I still lost that 1v1

Some classes have more advantages in down-state, that’s class design. I think downstate specialty fits Necro quite well. People shouldn’t think they win the fight when put people to down state. In a team fight, down state means nothing because there’re plenty of ways for people to rev the teammates, and it’s totally intended.

Also class balance shouldn’t be considered v.s. each downstate. For example, if both you and warrior go down, you’d lost the fight because he’ll eventually stand up for awhile. When you down together with a ranger, ranger will eventually win because of pet rev. However, for thieves, mesmers, and ele, even though you can’t save yourself and win the down-state fight, your skills allow you to stall time until your teammates are able to help you. That’s entirely how balance works. And for engi… Yeah their down skills kinda suck, but at least they’re strong when they’re not down lol…

Please stop talking.

Everyone knows that downstate skills are not balanced at all and they should be. Rangers interrupting you several times and before you can actually atempt to stomp, they will be getting ressed. Necro who can one shot thief, zerker ele etc. from a downstate. ‘’Totally Intended’’ Yeah, right.

’’That’s how balance works.’’ Well, glad you are not on the balance team.

QQ about necros and Rangers. Classic.

Wondering people do not like specs that take little skill and revolve around pressing one button. Classic.

If they take such little skill, then use some of your own and deal with the down state. It isn’t difficult. You’re a superior ele player, right? Much better than those necro and ranger players. You can do it. I believe in you.

Again, this goes back around to where other threads like this have gone if you don’t like the downed state, spinal shivers, or whatever, then you should advocate for builds that don’t require them or replace them effectively instead of whining about downed states of classes that aren’t viable.

i never understand this.

If a superior player playing a balanced, more technical build plays an inferior player that is using a low-skill, low-risk, high reward build then the win is not guaranteed for the player of superior skill.

All of these people who chant “well if necro 1 spam or ranger lb spam is so easy then you should be able to beat them no problem right??? or do you just suck, huehuehue” can’t seem to understand that the problem is that players who make bad choices, who are not good at their class, who use these unbalanced skills are able to kill people they otherwise wouldn’t stand a chance against.

Poorly balanced builds do well because they are poorly balanced, not because everyone somehow magically sucks against them. Furthermore in a game mode where team fights eclipse dueling scenarios, you cannot possibly anticipate or counter everything that comes from range or that out of your field of vision. Necros and rangers benefit greatly from having high burst range damage- something that if it is spammable is very hard to counter consistently if fights are even or lopsided.

This is why people complain about them.

Back to playing a kitten optimized meta instead of trying to break out in non-meta more satisfying builds.

Prove necro is imbalanced. I’ll wait.

This should be good.

Oh and just before you post, power necro has been unchanged for well over a year.

zapv.8051:

If it was that strong, necros would be taken in tournaments. They aren’t, so it must not be. The FACT that necros, and also rangers aren’t taken in tournaments should be a much higher priority then people on the forums OPINIONS that they have OP or cheap mechanics.

Edit: in response to the last post

Laraley.7695:

Necros have 1 passive proc on the power build, that is it. You also know when it is coming, so it has direct counterplay far more than the meta builds that have absolutely no counterplay (engis instant cast ccs, warriors instant cast healing condition removals, guards instant damage and condition removal, steal on theives, shadowshot on thieves).

It is a myth that necros and rangers depend on pressing a few buttons. If you aren’t using all the skills available to you on those builds you aren’t playing them right. You can argue all you want about counterplay and skill required, but again power necro and longbow ranger are far less cheesy than the meta builds in terms of counterplay.

These specs aren’t cancer in soloq anymore than the meta builds. I’m much more excited to fight a power necro that doesn’t have much defense or a longbow ranger that I know I can lockdown versus a medi guard that has 5+ defensive cooldowns, instant cast damage and teleports, or a shoutbow that literally facerolls. Also, if your team lost to 3 power necros casting lich form its because your team was bad and probably would have lost anyway.

Here are the facts:

Necros and rangers have ample counterplay, that do not require serious group coordination. It isn’t that hard to call targets.

The actual meta builds have very little counterplay in comparison.

Necros and rangers are taken very rarely if at all in competitive pvp.

I can see how some of the stuff on these classes might be considered “cheap”, but if you nerf or remove the cheap stuff without giving a serious amount of buffs to these classes they will see no play at all. These are two of the least played classes in the game, and not wanted for many many things. The last thing they need is nerfs.

Well what you said would be true if these weren’t considered:
1. CoD actually has some animation. With fire and air you can hardly see it coming as all those procs can one hit squishy classes. It can take one Life Blast to procs all of those.
2. One passive proc that can hit like a truck. Again, if you combine it with air and fire, this is hardly ‘’one passive proc’‘. Yes, all other classes have an access to those sigils, but they don’t have CoD and Close to Death, which can really one hit a player.
3. Counterplay in what? Team fights? 1v1’s? Because necros are not bad for 1v1’s at all thanks to those procs, eventually downstate. A thief has been in meta forever and it doesn’t do too well in 1v1’s.
4. I never said they don’t press other buttons, the point is that their damage comes only from a few buttons and does not require any set up. We could argue about this, but that thief, mesmer and zerker ele are more mechanically difficult to play.

I agree that zerker guardians can be much harder to deal with, however I don’t think we should just leave some classes alone just because there’s something more silly in the game. And as I said I never wanted these classes out of the game, I wanted ANet to rework them so they can actually be viable in high tier pvp AND require skill.

1) Other classes have more instant proc/uanvoidable damage, again medi guard, thief, and mes all have unavoidable instant damage. Also, you are wrong it takes at least two life blasts to proc chill of death. It won’t proc till you hit them under the health threshold. Also, you should know that COD is coming.

2) Again, other classes hit just as hard if not harder, and are equally unavoidable. The fact that you keep bringing up fire and air just proves you have no point, every class has access to those sigils. I get that it is annoying that COD can proc these sigils, but you should focus more on not letting it proc in the first place, which is something you can’t do with other classes builds.

3) CC, blinds, dodging, reflect, bursting them out of DS, safe stomps. Literally doing just about anything defensively allows you to avoid most of necros damage. Much more counterplay than anything else.

4) Necros damage requires far more setup than other classes, their burst comes once every 30 seconds or so and requires immobilize to land. All the damage is on wells and life blast. If you can’t walk out of a well, burst a necro out of DS, CC a necro in DS, dodge blind or block a LB its because your bad, not cause the class is cheap.

Anyway, in the long run we are on the same side, I’m not really for stuff without counterplay, but its really dumb when people focus on necros and rangers that have the most counterplay in the game (this is evident because meta builds have very little counterplay, and necros and rangers aren’t meta).

zapv.8051:

1) Other classes have more instant proc/uanvoidable damage, again medi guard, thief, and mes all have unavoidable instant damage. Also, you are wrong it takes at least two life blasts to proc chill of death. It won’t proc till you hit them under the health threshold. Also, you should know that COD is coming.

2) Again, other classes hit just as hard if not harder, and are equally unavoidable. The fact that you keep bringing up fire and air just proves you have no point, every class has access to those sigils. I get that it is annoying that COD can proc these sigils, but you should focus more on not letting it proc in the first place, which is something you can’t do with other classes builds.

3) CC, blinds, dodging, reflect, bursting them out of DS, safe stomps. Literally doing just about anything defensively allows you to avoid most of necros damage. Much more counterplay than anything else.

4) Necros damage requires far more setup than other classes, their burst comes once every 30 seconds or so and requires immobilize to land. All the damage is on wells and life blast. If you can’t walk out of a well, burst a necro out of DS, CC a necro in DS, dodge blind or block a LB its because your bad, not cause the class is cheap.

Anyway, in the long run we are on the same side, I’m not really for stuff without counterplay, but its really dumb when people focus on necros and rangers that have the most counterplay in the game (this is evident because meta builds have very little counterplay, and necros and rangers aren’t meta).

1. Have you ever played zerker ele? With that little hp you can really take only one LB to get all the procs. It’s also the fact that LB can proc both air and fire, which in total can be over 10K damage.
2. Dude, did you even write what I said? I even pointed out that every class does have access to those sigils, but they do not have another instant proc like CoD.
3. Again, this was never about how to counter necros. Altho, the downstate dmg is ridiculous.
4. I disagree with that completely.

annoying part: necro downstate can 100-0 you lol
sad part: necros kind of have to rely on it or nightmare runes atm to stay viable, both are extremely stupid “features”~

hopefully specializations will give necros better position in meta so they don’t have to rely on gimmicky stuff like downstate instagib lol

meanwhile just have to blow invul, get in stealth before necro can hit 1 or just get out of range/LoS <_<

frankly, i actually find ranger downstate more annoying… but then again i mainly play thief so my view is biased in that regard

Roe.3679:

Asudementio.8526:

Roe.3679:

Laraley.7695:

Roe.3679:

Laraley.7695:

Toxsa.2701:

Nutshel.7264:

Bhawb.7408:

Its being nerfed when the new specialization changes hit live, we’ve known that since they showed off the preview.

that’s what, half a year away? year? maybe more. They should srsly start fixing bs with higher frequency then once every half year.

Yday I had 1v1 downed state as ele vs necro. Necro got down first, before I went down he ate ligtnining strike, sigil flame strike, few auto attacks and arcane shield explosion… I still lost that 1v1

Some classes have more advantages in down-state, that’s class design. I think downstate specialty fits Necro quite well. People shouldn’t think they win the fight when put people to down state. In a team fight, down state means nothing because there’re plenty of ways for people to rev the teammates, and it’s totally intended.

Also class balance shouldn’t be considered v.s. each downstate. For example, if both you and warrior go down, you’d lost the fight because he’ll eventually stand up for awhile. When you down together with a ranger, ranger will eventually win because of pet rev. However, for thieves, mesmers, and ele, even though you can’t save yourself and win the down-state fight, your skills allow you to stall time until your teammates are able to help you. That’s entirely how balance works. And for engi… Yeah their down skills kinda suck, but at least they’re strong when they’re not down lol…

Please stop talking.

Everyone knows that downstate skills are not balanced at all and they should be. Rangers interrupting you several times and before you can actually atempt to stomp, they will be getting ressed. Necro who can one shot thief, zerker ele etc. from a downstate. ‘’Totally Intended’’ Yeah, right.

’’That’s how balance works.’’ Well, glad you are not on the balance team.

QQ about necros and Rangers. Classic.

Wondering people do not like specs that take little skill and revolve around pressing one button. Classic.

If they take such little skill, then use some of your own and deal with the down state. It isn’t difficult. You’re a superior ele player, right? Much better than those necro and ranger players. You can do it. I believe in you.

Again, this goes back around to where other threads like this have gone if you don’t like the downed state, spinal shivers, or whatever, then you should advocate for builds that don’t require them or replace them effectively instead of whining about downed states of classes that aren’t viable.

i never understand this.

If a superior player playing a balanced, more technical build plays an inferior player that is using a low-skill, low-risk, high reward build then the win is not guaranteed for the player of superior skill.

All of these people who chant “well if necro 1 spam or ranger lb spam is so easy then you should be able to beat them no problem right??? or do you just suck, huehuehue” can’t seem to understand that the problem is that players who make bad choices, who are not good at their class, who use these unbalanced skills are able to kill people they otherwise wouldn’t stand a chance against.

Poorly balanced builds do well because they are poorly balanced, not because everyone somehow magically sucks against them. Furthermore in a game mode where team fights eclipse dueling scenarios, you cannot possibly anticipate or counter everything that comes from range or that out of your field of vision. Necros and rangers benefit greatly from having high burst range damage- something that if it is spammable is very hard to counter consistently if fights are even or lopsided.

This is why people complain about them.

Back to playing a kitten optimized meta instead of trying to break out in non-meta more satisfying builds.

Prove necro is imbalanced. I’ll wait.

This should be good.

Oh and just before you post, power necro has been unchanged for well over a year.

I won’t make a convincing argument for the imbalance of power necro. I don’t think it as broken as most people do, though i do think the damage its lich form 1 and death shroud 1 are able to do at 1200 range is high- how imbalanced it is is up for debate, since there are specific and clear counters for both of those things, and we can argue until we are blue in the face about different team comps and roles in that.

I do want to comment on the second bit though. Just because one class doesn’t change does not mean that others do not- and those changes can cause imbalances for classes that do not receive changes.

Edit: A word

Laraley.7695:

1. Have you ever played zerker ele? With that little hp you can really take only one LB to get all the procs. It’s also the fact that LB can proc both air and fire, which in total can be over 10K damage.
2. Dude, did you even write what I said? I even pointed out that every class does have access to those sigils, but they do not have another instant proc like CoD.
3. Again, this was never about how to counter necros. Altho, the downstate dmg is ridiculous.
4. I disagree with that completely.

1) Yes in fact I have. You have to hit the person when they are below 50% health for it too proc, aka at least two hits. Although it could proc off of something like locust swarm, and seem like it was one hit.

2) Right and what I’m saying is that an instant cast skill that procs those sigils is far harder to deal with. I know when chill of death is coming, I don’t know when a guard will pop an instant cast meditation, when a zerker ele will switch to air, when a mes is going to shatter or when a thief will hit me out of stealth. In other words, the necro has far more counterplay.

3) If it isn’t about countering necros what is it, if you want something nerfed because it is killing you it’s because you can’t or aren’t countering it. I’m explaining why necros are easily countered and therefore why this isn’t OP, or at the least less op than other things.

4) Your talking about the class that has to setup just to get access to it’s profession mechanic. All those staff and dagger autos a power necro lands are setup, whether you like it or not. Even then you better burn through a few of your enemies cooldowns and dodges or cc them before you get to land the big fat telegraphed skill that is life blast. It isn’t a difference of opinion, necros have to do a lot to land good damage against decent players. It certainly requires far more work than medi guard, theif, or fresh air ele.

Asudementio.8526:

I won’t make a convincing argument for the imbalance of power necro. I don’t think it as broken as most people do, though i do think the damage its lich form 1 and death shroud 1 are able to do at 1200 range is high- how imbalanced it is is up for debate, since there are specific and clear counters for both of those things, and we can argue until we are blue in the face about different team comps and roles in that.

I do want to comment on the second bit though. Just because one class doesn’t change does not mean that others do not- and those changes can cause imbalances for classes that do not receive changes.

Edit: A word

Lich at 1200 range may as well be shooting balloons with how easy it is to sidestep the projectile. And life blast does significantly less damage beyond 600 range. You should learn more about the class before you complain about it. Both of these things are only effective at mid to close range.

Would you like to try another angle to display power necro imbalance?

Roe.3679:

Asudementio.8526:

I won’t make a convincing argument for the imbalance of power necro. I don’t think it as broken as most people do, though i do think the damage its lich form 1 and death shroud 1 are able to do at 1200 range is high- how imbalanced it is is up for debate, since there are specific and clear counters for both of those things, and we can argue until we are blue in the face about different team comps and roles in that.

I do want to comment on the second bit though. Just because one class doesn’t change does not mean that others do not- and those changes can cause imbalances for classes that do not receive changes.

Edit: A word

Lich at 1200 range may as well be shooting balloons with how easy it is to sidestep the projectile. And life blast does significantly less damage beyond 600 range. You should learn more about the class before you complain about it. Both of these things are only effective at mid to close range.

Would you like to try another angle to display power necro imbalance?

The first point doesn’t have anything with my point on necro balance, and i retain my position in regard to your second- different strokes for different folks then. Don’t assume because i have an issue with something that it is from a lack of understanding.

I am not going to die on a hill talking about necro imbalance or otherwise. To me, the risk vs the reward is lopsided- how is this fixed? By the countless ways to counter their abilities.

Like i said i think it is a problem with risk vs reward- you can feel differently because necros you encounter have their own host of problems. Some people feel differently.

Edit: Consider this dismissal as i don’t believe you intend to argue is good faith, just as most people who concern themselves with trying to bait out talking points don’t.

Asudementio.8526:

Roe.3679:

Asudementio.8526:

I won’t make a convincing argument for the imbalance of power necro. I don’t think it as broken as most people do, though i do think the damage its lich form 1 and death shroud 1 are able to do at 1200 range is high- how imbalanced it is is up for debate, since there are specific and clear counters for both of those things, and we can argue until we are blue in the face about different team comps and roles in that.

I do want to comment on the second bit though. Just because one class doesn’t change does not mean that others do not- and those changes can cause imbalances for classes that do not receive changes.

Edit: A word

Lich at 1200 range may as well be shooting balloons with how easy it is to sidestep the projectile. And life blast does significantly less damage beyond 600 range. You should learn more about the class before you complain about it. Both of these things are only effective at mid to close range.

Would you like to try another angle to display power necro imbalance?

The first point doesn’t have anything with my point on necro balance, and i retain my position in regard to your second- different strokes for different folks then. Don’t assume because i have an issue with something that it is from a lack of understanding.

I am not going to die on a hill talking about necro imbalance or otherwise. To me, the risk vs the reward is lopsided- how is this fixed? By the countless ways to counter their abilities.

Like i said i think it is a problem with risk vs reward- you can feel differently because necros you encounter have their own host of problems. Some people feel differently.

Edit: Consider this dismissal as i don’t believe you intend to argue is good faith, just as most people who concern themselves with trying to bait out talking points don’t.

People making claims need to support it with evidence. Earlier, you made the claim that necro is imbalanced, and this post here is you saying it’s just because you “feel” it’s off, and then ironically say I don’t want to argue in good faith. If you had a point, you would prove it. I’m still waiting.

Volarican.2157:

Why is anyone trying to defend the downstate dmg? The nerf is coming eventually, so even Anet thinks its too powerful.

It happened due to bug fixes not buffs lol not defending but we would trade it for proper in combat performance and no we are not so happy with the core specializations and our design,DS’s,our weapons’. Yes the nerf is coming we just want what we deserve and need,again bug fixes lmao meaning it should have been like that since the start.

Sagat.3285:

Volarican.2157:

Why is anyone trying to defend the downstate dmg? The nerf is coming eventually, so even Anet thinks its too powerful.

It happened due to bug fixes not buffs lol not defending but we would trade it for proper in combat performance and no we are not so happy with the core specializations and our design,DS’s,our weapons’. Yes the nerf is coming we just want what we deserve and need,again bug fixes lmao meaning it should have been like that since the start.

It’s only a nerf to people who are taking the trait in it’s current state. Every other spite necro will be getting a 33% buff because it’s in a minor trait.

Roe.3679:

Sagat.3285:

Volarican.2157:

Why is anyone trying to defend the downstate dmg? The nerf is coming eventually, so even Anet thinks its too powerful.

It happened due to bug fixes not buffs lol not defending but we would trade it for proper in combat performance and no we are not so happy with the core specializations and our design,DS’s,our weapons’. Yes the nerf is coming we just want what we deserve and need,again bug fixes lmao meaning it should have been like that since the start.

It’s only a nerf to people who are taking the trait in it’s current state. Every other spite necro will be getting a 33% buff because it’s in a minor trait.

Kind of the trait wasn’t worth it before but merge is good, I am more interested in core specializations overall than the nerf I hope it doesn’t happen the same way as dhuumfire though.

Lol @ this thread. The only reason people are mad is because they can’t continue their interrupt chain game if the necro is in the downed state.

moi.4398:

Nerf necros , nerf lich , nerf downstate , nerf chill of death , nerf deathshroud . This class is ruining balance atm . All teams stack necros and kitten the kitten out of everyone in ESL / WTS and go on . This class is present in all top teams and overused is every aspect of the game . Nerf it . Anet pls

Agreed. It is a scandal that i saw a necro doing ok earlier. Every team should need 2 thieves instead of 1. So lets buff thief and nerf necro

Jayce.5632:

Lol @ this thread. The only reason people are mad is because they can’t continue their interrupt chain game if the necro is in the downed state.

Hehe because it’s against necro’s intended meat sack design lol.

Lordrosicky.5813:

moi.4398:

Nerf necros , nerf lich , nerf downstate , nerf chill of death , nerf deathshroud . This class is ruining balance atm . All teams stack necros and kitten the kitten out of everyone in ESL / WTS and go on . This class is present in all top teams and overused is every aspect of the game . Nerf it . Anet pls

Agreed. It is a scandal that i saw a necro doing ok earlier. Every team should need 2 thieves instead of 1. So lets buff thief and nerf necro

Yeah, for some weird reasons, the Meta top 5 classes (Engi, Warrior, Guardian, Ele, Thief) do not enjoy playing with none Meta classes, and want the other 3 inferior classes to be trash tier and never show up again by nerfing them more. They kept on posting those “nerf ranger”, “nerf necro” threads, yet leaving their broken stuffs alone.
Hypocrisy at a maximum.

moi.4398:

Nerf necros , nerf lich , nerf downstate , nerf chill of death , nerf deathshroud . This class is ruining balance atm . All teams stack necros and kitten the kitten out of everyone in ESL / WTS and go on . This class is present in all top teams and overused is every aspect of the game . Nerf it . Anet pls

This guy gets it. Necro downstate is so powerful that I see teams all the time stacking them, sometimes up to 3 in PvP. It’s ridiculous. They’re so OP they don’t even need Celestial, just roll zerker and down everyone and anything. It’s totally not fair and they need to be nerfed. It’s such a HUGE problem right now.

Could be nerfed along with lifeblast/lich by something like 10-15%.
It’s not like 5k auto-attack won’t be powerful enough.

Specially with the Chill Reaper coming…

Ha this thread is terrible. The weakest, least used class that is rarely used in organized play and this community wants it nerfed without any compensation for its numerous defects? Really the downstate is so op that all teams want them? Fine they can reduce the numbers on our downstate which is the worst downstate in the game, it will not touch the class or make your class more viable. Necro downed is so easily countered with blind, stability or breaking Los and stealthing I hate saying l2p, but you should.

Gryph.8237:

Ha this thread is terrible. The weakest, least used class that is rarely used in organized play and this community wants it nerfed without any compensation for its numerous defects? Really the downstate is so op that all teams want them? Fine they can reduce the numbers on our downstate which is the worst downstate in the game, it will not touch the class or make your class more viable. Necro downed is so easily countered with blind, stability or breaking Los and stealthing I hate saying l2p, but you should.

You also don’t get it. You assume that after a fight everyone has all of their cooldowns ready to go. If they don’t, a downstate necro can take a cele (even worse for zerker) class from half health to zero and then still win the downstate battle after that. That’s the issue.

You are confusing necro issues with the downstate issue. Downstate damage needs a nerf. No one is arguing that there are plenty of other areas where necro needs buffs/redesign.

The downed state damage is silly. I feel even worse than I would playing a turret build when I have to slot the downed damage trait because it’s literally one of our best things right now.

I would love for things like Lich form, downed damage, chill of death procs to all be less gimicky, but Anet seems intent on a selfish, high damage, useless everywhere else design for the necro. I’m sorry to say but most people will need to wait for a lot of reworking on the necro before these things are balanced better or else the profession will be even more irrelevant.

I read all the responses and it reads like the list of forum complaints for the last 4 weeks.

1. Argument about a skill/trait that some consider OP but others consider a L2P
2. Insert a comment about the random proc’ing of sigils or runes on crit
3. Meta Vs Non Meta builds and their use in tournament play
4. Anet’s patch history and the upcoming balance fixes in the next release

I don’t think anyone, on a general level, would argue against a single skill/trait being over powered if it was shown to be a valid complaint. However the majority of necro’s know that their class is broken at a much higher level and thus complaining about one aspect of a necro that has very little to do with overall mechanics of the class seems to be an over reaction. The down state of a necro is NOT going to significantly impact the results of a match. Very rarely have I been able to use the necro down state to secure a rez in a 1 v 1 downstate fight since another player normally comes to 2 v 1 and get the stomp off and a rez of my opponent.

I would think that our energy would be better spent on advising on larger changes to class mechanics than on nit picking balance issues that, while valid problems, are a lower priority.

The Necromancer is the worst 1v1 class in conquest. “This is why you never see Necromancers in 1v1 arenas”. The downstate damage is actually essential to their current balance vs. other classes. If they did not have this elevated downstate DPS, they would in no way be dangerous while engaging 1v1. I do agree that it is annoying and a somewhat improper way to balance a class’s effectiveness in combat BUT it is necessary and I think that most of what people are complaining about is being annoyed by the downstate DPS rather than it actually being OP.

Let me explain to you how to deal with downstate Necro DPS:

• Stability, Stomp
• Invuln, Stomp
• No stability? No Invuln? Start stomp, feint dodge the fear, go back and stomp
• Condition Damage, walk away from Necro, hide behind object
• Necromancers have no heals outside of leeching you with #1 downed spam. Do not enter a face tanking DPS cleave challenge with the downed state Necro.

Very simple, not difficult

Its actually going to be coming sooner then that, it is in the core trait reworks. Nothing to do with HOT, so I would think very soon.

I understand its powerful but the nerf(half of currently values) is pretty extreme in my opinion. In general it wont stand up to a thief downstate or an engi. So no one will worry about necros anymore…

It just hurts more because they just fixed the downstate we had, that was bugged and we didn’t know it. Now it must be nerfed…cause it was never balanced due to the bug.

@OP, roll a necro, trait for downed state damage, enter a tournament and win all your matches with it, recorded of course, then come back to us and tell us it needs to be nerfed.

I do agree though that power necro needs to be nerfed along with everyone else. It is brainless and skill-less. It is based on boring passive procs and 1 spamming literally. It is a build built around 1 spam. Spam 1 dagger. Spam 1 staff for life force. Spam 1 in deathshroud. Get downed and spam 1. I honestly think power necros need to insure their keyboards because their “1” key is going to break down. Power necro is up there with the least brainless and skill-less specs in gw2 history. It is a spec based around 1 spam. FACT. Any build based around 1 spam automatically is brainless.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I do agree though that power necro needs to be nerfed along with everyone else. It is brainless and skill-less. It is based on boring passive procs and 1 spamming literally. It is a build built around 1 spam. Spam 1 dagger. Spam 1 staff for life force. Spam 1 in deathshroud. Get downed and spam 1. I honestly think power necros need to insure their keyboards because their “1” key is going to break down. Power necro is up there with the least brainless and skill-less specs in gw2 history. It is a spec based around 1 spam. FACT. Any build based around 1 spam automatically is brainless.

Not everyone is an ele,war or engineer but what else do you expect us to use when DS is so restrictive and our weapons design are not good?? Hell condition necro significantly inferior to power necro right now will soon be spamming too for dhuumfire to rise up to their ranks, even if utilities were allowed in DS we still stay in it for an extended time or we die faster other sustain sources are not doing it.

Let’s just keep in mind that it’s related to class design and current necro downstate damage came from bug fixes this should have happen long ago delaying balance for a class will have this kind of effect, same thing with dhuumfire we ask for better scaling defense so they give us burning and then we all know the story and how it affected what was fine before dhuumfire so yeah don’t just say nerf this and that.

Sagat.3285:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I do agree though that power necro needs to be nerfed along with everyone else. It is brainless and skill-less. It is based on boring passive procs and 1 spamming literally. It is a build built around 1 spam. Spam 1 dagger. Spam 1 staff for life force. Spam 1 in deathshroud. Get downed and spam 1. I honestly think power necros need to insure their keyboards because their “1” key is going to break down. Power necro is up there with the least brainless and skill-less specs in gw2 history. It is a spec based around 1 spam. FACT. Any build based around 1 spam automatically is brainless.

Not everyone is an ele,war or engineer but what else do you expect us to use when DS is so restrictive and our weapons design are not good?? Hell condition necro significantly inferior to power necro right now will soon be spamming too for dhuumfire to rise up to their ranks, even if utilities were allowed in DS we still stay in it for an extended time or we die faster other sustain sources are not doing it.

Let’s just keep in mind that it’s related to class design and current necro downstate damage came from bug fixes this should have happen long ago delaying balance for a class will have this kind of effect, same thing with dhuumfire we ask for better scaling defense so they give us burning and then we all know the story and how it affected what was fine before dhuumfire so yeah don’t just say nerf this and that.

It’s funny you can’t see Lord is being sarcastic.
His main is necro anyway.

Toxsa.2701:

Sagat.3285:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I do agree though that power necro needs to be nerfed along with everyone else. It is brainless and skill-less. It is based on boring passive procs and 1 spamming literally. It is a build built around 1 spam. Spam 1 dagger. Spam 1 staff for life force. Spam 1 in deathshroud. Get downed and spam 1. I honestly think power necros need to insure their keyboards because their “1” key is going to break down. Power necro is up there with the least brainless and skill-less specs in gw2 history. It is a spec based around 1 spam. FACT. Any build based around 1 spam automatically is brainless.

Not everyone is an ele,war or engineer but what else do you expect us to use when DS is so restrictive and our weapons design are not good?? Hell condition necro significantly inferior to power necro right now will soon be spamming too for dhuumfire to rise up to their ranks, even if utilities were allowed in DS we still stay in it for an extended time or we die faster other sustain sources are not doing it.

Let’s just keep in mind that it’s related to class design and current necro downstate damage came from bug fixes this should have happen long ago delaying balance for a class will have this kind of effect, same thing with dhuumfire we ask for better scaling defense so they give us burning and then we all know the story and how it affected what was fine before dhuumfire so yeah don’t just say nerf this and that.

It’s funny you can’t see Lord is being sarcastic.
His main is necro anyway.

Speaking in general we do have thieves wanting to nerf themselves visit our section on the right days I do somewhat dislike the direction with condition necro and necro in general but it wouldn’t be so bad if DS wasn’t so restrictive.

Toxsa.2701:

Sagat.3285:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I do agree though that power necro needs to be nerfed along with everyone else. It is brainless and skill-less. It is based on boring passive procs and 1 spamming literally. It is a build built around 1 spam. Spam 1 dagger. Spam 1 staff for life force. Spam 1 in deathshroud. Get downed and spam 1. I honestly think power necros need to insure their keyboards because their “1” key is going to break down. Power necro is up there with the least brainless and skill-less specs in gw2 history. It is a spec based around 1 spam. FACT. Any build based around 1 spam automatically is brainless.

Not everyone is an ele,war or engineer but what else do you expect us to use when DS is so restrictive and our weapons design are not good?? Hell condition necro significantly inferior to power necro right now will soon be spamming too for dhuumfire to rise up to their ranks, even if utilities were allowed in DS we still stay in it for an extended time or we die faster other sustain sources are not doing it.

Let’s just keep in mind that it’s related to class design and current necro downstate damage came from bug fixes this should have happen long ago delaying balance for a class will have this kind of effect, same thing with dhuumfire we ask for better scaling defense so they give us burning and then we all know the story and how it affected what was fine before dhuumfire so yeah don’t just say nerf this and that.

It’s funny you can’t see Lord is being sarcastic.
His main is necro anyway.

I was being genuine actually. Power necro is stupid and brainless. It is literally 1 spam. Im not disagreeing with the dude who quoted me, necro isnt strong. But power necro is lame and skillless. It is the sort of spec which shouldnt be as powerful as it is. Imo

Lordrosicky.5813:

I was being genuine actually. Power necro is stupid and brainless. It is literally 1 spam. Im not disagreeing with the dude who quoted me, necro isnt strong. But power necro is lame and skillless. It is the sort of spec which shouldnt be as powerful as it is. Imo

You know, I would be all for moving damage away from 1 skills to other skills as long as the damage potential remains exactly the same.

Though in my opinion it’s not as bad as you make it out to be. I need to play better to do well on Power Necro than I need to do on D/D Ele, Shoutbow and Cele Rifle from my experiences.

If they nerf it no one will ever take it