Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

I was just spitballing numbers. Obviously it would have a ICD too.

But really healing through shroud does little for us because it completely misses the problem.

Necros already pair well with supports. That’s what allows the ESL teams to run glass necros since they can just pair them off with supports and they are golden.

What necros can’t do is function without a pocket support. And healing through shroud doesn’t address that. All healing through shroud does is make necros with pocket support excessively strong while still screwing over solo-queuing necros.

You are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.

Well the healing in shroud is a design problem not a balance problem. Probably you could balance necros without allowing healing in shroud but it wouldnt fix the frustration with shroud.

Heck i can remember a time when shroud was even worse and you couldnt even stomp/rezz and you bloodmagic siphons didnt work in shroud. And fixing that was important not from a balance perspective but a design one, so i am happy that Anet did this. They just shouldnt stop halfway though…

all the class is speed up since hot

but only necro is still slow slow and slow…
and with a small change, ppl say necro is too op!!
but never thinking how they are op than necro

they change stability system,
but when u wanna cc them, u will see they easy break stun or didn’t got feel anything
cos they have stability stacks or can get it again soon
but when ur opps wanna cc u, u always easy got kd/push/stun/pull
cos u only have one or no Stability stack on u

when u always take a Stability skill or trait
u can’t feel u realy have stability

dodge? i don’t think u still have endurance

heal self?
heal skill is too slow, too easy got cc

sure necro still can win on fight
but u need pay very much than ur opps pay

I laugh even harder because I just dodge them on thief and watch all their conditions disappear if they can even land them. On mesmer, they don’t even stand a chance. At this point necromancer is my free faceroll kill. Necro has been that class every season in my opinion that could never hold a 1 vs 1 and was always a free kill in team fights. They are like the support class in LoL. Last pick.

wardspratlin.9107:

Crinn.7864:

wardspratlin.9107:

thats actually pretty false currently its fairly ez to 100 to 0 a necro ds in 5 seconds or less and downing a necro in a team fight would still be the targe. yes it would be more difficult but definetly wouldnt make them invincible by that logic any ele/x duo would be invincible lol not the case..

Even if ds is going down in 5 seconds, that’s still a total damage shutout for 5 seconds, and the necro should be able to return to useable lifeforce levels within 10 seconds or so. If the necro is taking healing during shroud even such short shrouds, the necro will become nearly impossible to take down in scenarios involving supports.

Look I main a necro, and I know how craptastic soloqueuing without private support is. But allowing us to be healed in shroud would be way to much of a buff.

I would like to see better blind access, or my suggestion in my previous post.

i Main necro aswell..

and you even proved my point the fact is you said it would take 10 seconds before we had usable levels of ds again

i dont understand your point… its not like having a support makes us invincible if i was war and i had a ele supporting me my war is not invincible nor any other class but yet i would have access to there heals 100% uptime dont act like owe well in 10 secs you could reset everytime…. no there isnt that many heals in the game unless you got 2 eles on you (but then you have no team dmg and would be true for any combination of professions) and as necro cant mitigate any incoming dmg they would still be the focus target every fight… but atleast then we wouldnt drop in 7 seconds and our allies wouldnt completly waste skills on something they cant control (no way to know when we will hit f1) … specially with this now we cant form parties in ranked so we cant even use coms to coordinate that….

also why i said add it to blighters boon trait at the end of reaper ( we would either have to drop deathly chill or onslaught) which would lower our dmg output signifigantly but yet make us way more tanky in team play but hardly invincible or OP bc it would still rely on allies to catch enemy bursts

It’s not just “heals” from Ele or Engi, it’s everything else Necro lacks as a class. Boons, cleanses, and improved sustains overall. Even if it’s marginal because unlike warrior, necro is more dangerous as time elapses.

He’s one of the only classes that truly makes a comeback when he gets rez’d but players want Necro to solo better, can’t say I blame them.

the prob with necros is not Survive-ability nor their Dmg out-put

It is their mobility
the mobility of a necro is hilarious
it is like being in a light armor tank that moves like a semi truck on beach sand
while surrounded by heavy artillery tanks that bombast you

man

mobility = survivability.

The necro class have problem with everything survivability=mobility and also low dps and low overall pvp damage done.

Light armor that moves like a semi truck on beach sand" vs heavy armor that moves like a porsche. Machine gun vs rocket launchers. Thats the current state of necromancer.

The last time we had this type of thread..they buffed necro to reaper level in S1 that got nerfed anyway in the end. It would appear that anet has learnt their lesson, you can’t have hug dmg pressure and insane sustain in the same spec, furthermore the sustain must always be linked to sustain trait lines…and not power ones.

Trade offs must be forced on all professions…not always the same ones who are forced to spec either for dmg or sustain, never both.

Most reapers here keep asking for buffs that inevitably would turn them in power houses with dmg and sustain, they should give necros a sustainable bunker spec with pitiful dmg like it’s for eles for example.

Asking for general buffs that would buff specs like corruptmancer is not the way to go for a healthy game.

By concentrating sustain in given traitlines, you force choices on players, you don’t allow them to spec for rambo mode; broken all-rounder like warrior and druid will soon be brought down and when that happen the last thing we need is something else that takes their place

If you want to dmg, you must be ready to die a lot and ask for other support. I you want to bunker then you must lose your dmg.

Arguments like " only type of support is heal and boonshare" are illogical…don’t play a necro if that’s what you feel

We don’t want huge damage and huge survavibility, we just want one of the two things.
We don’t have huge damage and don’t have any survavibility, that’s the problem.

Thieves have few defensive skills (only a block) but high mobility and insane huge damage and that make them a top class.

I want to be feared for my damage or for my survability, not fast killed without be able to inflict any good damage by more or less everyone.

Silv.9207:

We don’t want huge damage and huge survavibility, we just want one of the two things.
We don’t have huge damage and don’t have any survavibility, that’s the problem.

I’m curious, why then do you think they’re Meta in the pro-leagues?

Because of corruption

Silverthorn.8576:

Because of corruption

So you’re asking for raw damage instead of the vulnerability caused by corruption?

Personnaly i think the only things necro need is revert HP nerf of “Rise” minion and ICD suppression of Spectral Armor.

We are just asking for become viable solo pvp class on our own and become better duelists. Imagine the whine if they remove blocks invu evade shields and 100% damage mitigations teleports stealth from other classes just to make them feel a bit what solo necro players feel. After that they still have higher burst damage as we have slow condis. Let them only have swiftness and one skill that do the same to get out of fight as death charge and a 33% damage mitigation. Thats it survive with it.

Soul reaping spec almost doesn’t even worth to take. The more enemy on the screen the less useful it become. You can’t use Shroud skills potential against good players with high burst. As even with taking vital persistence they are almost instantly hit you out of shroud which means the grand master traits are also useless then. Its nice against lower skilled teams and can help in 1v1’s but thats it.

I think biggest issue is advice on what to do with necro from ppl never ever playing the Class, but more from players once in a blue moon actually died to one…

Well i think it was already said but i think the best idea would to put the extra survivability (or mobility which some of you mentioned), which this tread asks for, on the power weapons (also greatsword, mh dagger or axe). They currently are all underperforming so a buff in that dirction wouldnt be bad.

Necro only needs viable options to defend themselves from focus fire without their entire skill bar being in a constant state of recharge. It’s one thing, to just face-tank damage. Not being able to fight back while doing so, is entirely another.

Necromancer can’t even afford to slot Flesh Wurm lol. We’re really in a tough spot when it comes to mobility, because we basically have to slot “Rise” and a boon corrupt to do what we’re supposed to do.
Even then, it takes 3 days to cast flesh wurm and every other class has a cc ready for us.
Speed = Viability
Combat boils down to this, and it also happens to be Necromancer’s fundemental flaw.
Why do you think slow characters in smash bros are never considered top tier?

Saiyan.1704:

Silv.9207:

We don’t want huge damage and huge survavibility, we just want one of the two things.
We don’t have huge damage and don’t have any survavibility, that’s the problem.

I’m curious, why then do you think they’re Meta in the pro-leagues?

necro + necrositter is meta.

Reaper lacks the stupid opness of the rest of the elite specs. The staggering dmg + sustain + mobility + cc at the same time builds. The ridiculous amounts of cc, condi clear, dmg mitigation/negation…all stuff reaper wishes it had and all stuff that gives reaper a very hard time.

Every class in the game except maybe guard can legit run circles around necro. It wasn’t near bad at all when chill uptime was on the crazy side and chill melted people like butter + 50% rise. People had to be more careful how they approached a reaper. Now they come for hugs.

Necros tend to complain too much while citing what other profession have but always omitting what must be invested by those profession to gain anything

Like all others you must invest in specific traits/utilities to get mobility/sustain so what’s your problem?

Mobility?

-You have https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadows
-You have focus https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Locust_Swarm
-Utilities with long kitten swiftness https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk
-Signets again https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Locust

Wth more do you want? And respect to who?
You have as much mobility as the majority of professions that rely on swiftness ( ele, engi, guardian), these professions invest in traits/utilities…they don’t get swiftness by default so again what’s your problem?

You have the tools to escape just as much as an ele ..or any other class that has no stealth to run away from certain death…or do you guys think that you can really run away on non stealth classes?..yah keep dreaming

Non-stealth classes..if they want to chase you..they will easily, these days without stealth, your chances of surviving a pursuit …are pretty kittening low so…deal with it

Teleports?

-You have https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm, it only need a precast ( and this can be quite advantageous ) respect to utilities like Lightning flash that you keep mentioning, furthermore it’s a stunbreaker, deal dmg and has less CD than Lightning flash

-You have https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death's_Charge; it’s a dash on a 6s CD which can be used to cover great distance if you trait with speed of shadows + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Relentless_Pursuit...so again what more do you want?

You can’t expect to move as fast as a thief or rev or dashing warrior ( which is universally broken and does not count as a meter of balance) or teleport majestically like a mesmer, we have profession identities so deal with it

Don’t let me even start on CC for necro….
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Chilled_to_the_Bone!%22
-https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wail_of_Doom

I won’t mention all the debuffs necro bring to the table, impairing conditions etc etc etc…

Damage?

Let’s see PvP : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZcXVvGShQk

Let’s see in WvW : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IyTKTuICgI

What about PvE? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-b5ogp9rdo

I won’t start a pointless discussion about skill level of the parties involved and with this said we can all see that necro has got the numbers, you have the dmg and you have very little to complain about about this specific argument…very very kittening little

Sustain?

Ok here there is room for improvement, I can admit it but..a huge but, the situation really is not far from the rest of the other professions, I’m sorry but constant talk of dh/druid won’t reinforce your points. On some professions atm the sustain is slightly overtuned but Anet will soon deal with them, therefore we must use the “OK” professions as a meter of balance. Talking like everything should be buffed to OP levels is stupid.

Yes ele got nerfed hard..but that’s preferable to playing a braindead spec used by all the fotm lemmings.

About the rest..you simply can’t get sustain for free, for god sake!
Some professions must invest in specific amulet/stats to have any sustain at all and avoid being insta killed by anything : elementalist for example.

Dear Necros, other professions must pass a “sustain check” before going in, they must have that amulet, that gear and those traits…otherwise you can gtfo

Now if you want to follow the same principle, trait a specific way to gain sustain but not huge pressure as a consequence then..by all means let’s improve your sustain, but if you want a “free for all” sustain where you can use whatever and still have sustain+dmg……we may have a problem

Supreme.3164:

Necros tend to complain too much while citing what other profession have but always omitting what must be invested by those profession to gain anything

Some builds invest into certain things and it results in an overall useful build. Sometimes you can invest into certain things and the result is trash. For necro the latter is true more often than not.

A necro who invests into a port is stuck with the worst port in the game, that don’t do anything most of the time, because you can’t cast it or the worm got killed or you can’t/don’t want to port to the worms location, when you need it. (I don’t think reaper needs more mobility though). A necro who invests into huge dmg numbers is stuck with an absolutely terrible build that does nothing against halfways competent players (if viable dmg was just about numbers, dps ele would be top tier, not only in PvE). A necro who invests into “sustain”/defensive traitlines has barely any dmg, barely any support and is just a meatshield that takes a few seconds longer to kill than usual necro builds.
The problem of necro is, that its main defense aka shroud doesn’t scale with dmg taken, nor benefits it from all the aoe healing that is flying arround – and both things have increased for most classes.

That being said, i’d rather see other classes nerfed than reaper buffed. Having a clear weakness is not bad. The lack of is (and ideally a weakness is build dependent, not class specific).

Supreme.3164:

Mobility?

mobility is mandatory in a conquest mode where rotation are the most important part of the teamplay. We can’t really ask for more mobility because Necromancer is supposed to be the slow beast and prevent being kyte with snare.

Teleports?

Flesh wurm is useless in this meta, huge cast and CD when your opponent has instant teleport and no/low CD for rev and thief. Again even if necro could need this kind of efficient tool it does not really fit our RP of slow class.
Death Charge is ok even if we can’t really speak about mobilty there, may be when they will increase the range so … never.

Don’t let me even start on CC for necro….

Nobody asks for more CC on necro.

Damage?

Let’s see PvP : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZcXVvGShQk

That must me the worst PvP i have ever seen, the necro plays badly and his opponents are even worst.

Let’s see in WvW : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IyTKTuICgI

So? WvW video? most roamer are terribad and using non meta build, he wins a 1v3 as power necro…. It shows how irrelevant is this video.

What about PvE? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-b5ogp9rdo

LUL

I won’t start a pointless discussion about skill level of the parties involved and with this said we can all see that necro has got the numbers, you have the dmg and you have very little to complain about about this specific argument…very very kittening little

Necro is supposed to be a DPS class that why we bring no support to the team and for your information Necro has to invest for it!

Sustain?

Ok here there is room for improvement…

So all this to aggree with us that necro need a better sustain.
Necro has nothing for free like other class, if we want sustain we will have to equip “rise”, “spectra armor”, stun break etc but the fact is atm our defensive tools are ineffective and that why esport players don’t us it and maximize their corruption. And yes again we all know the build they use is not made for solo queue..

Oh, wow a PvP montage of a power reaper with GS that fight against REALLY BAD PLAYERS!!!
Seriously… they’re really insanely BAD.
A warrior that flee from a dps necro when will totally be able to burst him down in seconds, that play without using the shield and just play seriously bad? And the necro was also helped from a ranger pet (just to say). An elementalist that make every possible mistakes to make the necro able to kill him in melee range, without even use any defensive skill? A thief that don’t CC him and kill him in 3 seconds, don’t hide, don’t perma-dodge and don’t even try to flee using one of his stealth skills, just to heal and turn back to kill him as every good thief can easly do? Also he won a lot of 2v1/3vs2 fight with no one focusing him! wow! And the only moment someone start to hit him he barely fall downed in 2 seconds!

He don’t find any good player, not a single meta build and when he face a revenant he was with an ally and the reve was so bad to don’t even burst him down.
No fight against a good warrior (that would be able to burst him down in seconds without reciving any damage), not a single dh, not a good reve (I also will be able to kill him…), not a single mesmer, cc engi or ranger. try to kill a druid with that build, he will kill you before you come to land a single hit and a dh will not even let you hit him spamming blocks, invul and traps. Where’s the fight in mid with 4v4/3v3 against a good team that know how to focus? Where’s the fight against a good player or even a good build?
There’s only a pathetic unranked fight against a lot of seriously insanely bad players to show that a GS can hit hard. Yes, a GS can hit hard, that’s true, but do you know a good build to use it? His build? Seriously, I will be able to kill him with my own necro build without any problem.
That dps build can be done but basicly don’t work against any kind of good player. more or less all the other classes unless the ele can burst down a necro in seconds and necros play hybrid builds, how can a similar build survive in a real fight?

About your amount of movement skills… yes, we have a swiftness skill on warhorn, a useless spectral walk that grant us only a swiftness without any other good thing (teleport to the previous position? If you use that you’re running away from that place). Signet of locusts? Ok, it’s in the signet build, grant an aoe heal and a 25% speed, good, but useless against classes with movement skills ar simply able to have permanent swiftness (and a lot of classes have swiftness up almost all the time). The wurm is a teleport that work really bad. You have to put it in a safe place why can be Killed, when you active it you frequently don’t spawn where the mob is why there’s objects or different levels between you and the wurm, have a casting time then you can’t use it as an escape skill. Think as the mesmer portal, that’s a similar skill that seriously work: insane range and can’t be killed. Think if you’re able to destroy the portal when the mesmer active it the first time, not even the second, would it be useful? No, it will be totally bad why every enemy will be able to come and destroy it, making your skill useless even before you active it.
Speed of Shadow? Only a Power build can chose that and only if don’t use the Staff. if you use the staff you’re forced to chose that trait, simply why is way better than speed of shadow. And as always, it work only while in shroud and every other classes have swiftness or real movement speed skills to run back to you and kill you without any problem.
The Reaper Shroud skill 2 is a leap with 6 seconds of CD and is the only real movement skill we have. But if you count it’s aftercast, it’s totally useless to flee from someone (again) why he can run back to you with swiftness without so much problems. At the end of the skill there’s a short hit (the blind attack effect) and that stop the movement of the leap for a moment, wasting half of the leap distance and making it useless to flee from an enemy and good only if the enemy don’t chose to follow you and kill you without any mercy.

The Movement we’re talking about is not swiftness or a +25% (that is frequently useless in pvp why now everyone have tons of swiftness and movement skills). We’re talking about leaps without aftercast and real working teleport, that the necromancer totally lack.

About CC, we have some CC and that’s true. warhorn, elite and Rs5 are good CC, but not spammable as every other class can do. And about Fear, it’s a big problem why if the enemy have Resistance it don’t work, becoming uselss in a lot of situations. if it become a daze/stun of 1/4 sec with fear effect, it can become a real CC but now is a condition that sometimes is useful and sometimes is totally useless.

That youtube videos are joke right? All are low skilled players eating power necros damage and running away from necro. That necro in first video is good for a fast free kill.

For the wvw video. Hollts is good necro and you can see it on his movement and knows when what to do, but he only do good videos because his enemies are lows and Hollts is exp vet. So when you see the video the best moments recorded by Hollts you may think necro kitten powerful class. But if you send any decent player of other classes on him with high survivability/mobility+burst damage he dies too like everyone. So no more 1v3 and 1v2. As you can’t even win most 1v1’s at higher levels. There is no way you survive any class that have high survivability+burst damage on necro on your own.

If we had enough mobility, we wouldn’t be the first to get crushed by a zerg in WvW. Flesh wurm takes the same amount of time to cast it as it does to walk to it, spectral walk is reverse mobility, rs 2 is really short amd forces us to put shroud on cd, and everybody has swiftness. Blink is the best mesmer utility, so they don’t have to give up something important for the extra teleport. Same with shadowstep and to a degree, judge’s intervention. Even lightning flash has more use than flesh wurm overall. Having mobility does not change that we have the worst mobility by a decent margin. Couple that with our lack of defense, and you have a player controlled PvE mob.

Oh my god… people and their issues with Flesh Wurm. People STILL say “er me gerd it has such cast time”? Really? Haven’t you learned how to use it already? Flesh Wurm has no cast time.

Misconceptions about wurm (things which are wrong):
1) People kill it all the time
—No one kills it. ESL players, even the top of the top, don’t even attack the wurm. What you need to keep in mind is that the wurm will teleport to you in a 1200 direction towards it. This means you place the wurm before a fight and you can be 100000 miles away from it, but it will still port you in its direction. In other words, the wurm is out of enemy sight.
2) It bugs out all the time
—It bugs out sometimes, but that just takes practice. If you first use the skill, you’ll notice it bug out a lot because you won’t know how it works and what makes it bug. After a while, the skill will work 95% of the time and you’ll know all the safe spots.
3) It takes you the same amount of time to cast the skill as it would take you to walk to the place
-- You need to flip your screen and cast the wurm BACK with the enemy chasing you. He won’t see the wurm behind him. You pop the wurm and bam, you’re 1200 units away from your chaser. Alternatively, pre-cast the wurm before a fight, which you should always, always do.
4) It’s useless as a disengage because everything else teleports to you anyway
—Depends. If a revenant chases you, you need to see which legend he is in. If he’s in Shiro, he may port, but that’s not likely if he needs energy. If you ported away from a Revenant, you can drop marks at your feet. He will port to you and kaboom.
—Thieves can only really catch up fast if they had Steal ready at that exact time. If not, they won’t be able to catch up too quickly and you can throw marks at them while they’re trying to get to you.
—Longbow (but not shield/scepter + sword/focus dragonhunters) have Judge’s Intervention. This is the thing they can catch up to you with, but if they used Judge’s Intervention to burst you in the first place, they won’t have it ready when you port. They could also use sword teleport, but sword’s range is lower than your wurm.

Spectral Walk. Spectral Walk is an amazing kiting tool, especially when used with wurm. Spectral Walk with Spectral Attunement can bring you at a 2000 distance from where you used it, if not more. If you combine it with wurm, you can port 3200 distance. Once again, people don’t see the value of Spectral Walk. I usually use it when I’m seeing that I’m about to get focused (you see several enemies going for you). I start SWalk, use Locust Swarm and use shroud. Jump right into the fight or kite somewhere to lead them on a goose chase. Exit shroud, port back to your original spot which is far from enemies by now, drop staff marks on them while you’re running away even farther.

Personally, I have no problems staying alive as a Reaper or even as a base Necro. The onlyproblem I DO have is the in-sane sustain other classes have, when compared to a Necro. Necro sustain, imo, feels really good but it’s the overpowered sustain of everything else that makes it seem so weak.

lol hilarity. Necros need 2 or 3 trait lines just to make their only real defensive mechanic half decent. Reading some of this stuff, you would think we get everything baseline.

Reh.5986:

lol hilarity. Necros need 2 or 3 trait lines just to make their only real defensive mechanic half decent. Reading some of this stuff, you would think we get everything baseline.

And specing for a full defensive Necro make it completely useless.

Not just completely useless but still die fast. Half the damage and stun cc lock going nowadays would be more than enough for a necro.
Most of the conquest pvp population plays melee classes so warriors,dhs,revs,thieves, in your face 24/7. i face atleast 3 melee based classes almost every match.
Ive tried a lot of builds and the best way is go with as much damage as possible, going defensive on necro not saving you from death.
You survive 1sec more and doing 0 damage or you go there spam marks die but atleast doing some damage.
Both bad but i think second option is the “better” bad as our class is not good at outlasting so going defensive fails. its go full dps and hope enemy dies before you.

The topic have 5515 views already which also shows the problem with the class is that bad. It’s a interesting topic for players because the post and most of the replies are true.

Rolisteel.1375:

Not just completely useless but still die fast. Half the damage and stun cc lock going nowadays would be more than enough for a necro. (…)

That is for all classes(except warriors…. ), not only necros…. all the aoe+cleaves being spammed u get alot of side damage even if people are not targeting you, and CC are way to spamable.

I think Necro is fine, it is the other classes that need to get ~shave to a decent place.
Strong skills need more CD and be less spammed as exemple in all classes.

The only thing that necros needs is mobilty atm, even my slowpike mace shield guardian can get them, due their low mobility, the need a consume corpse teleport or some ghostly dash F2.

necro needs mobility other classes need a survivability and burst damage tune down after that everything balanced.

Rolisteel.1375:

necro needs mobility other classes need a survivability and burst damage tune down after that everything balanced.

Neg

Necro is fine at the competitive and organized play level. What it needs is a viable alternate spec that can be used for solo play.

Kuya.6495:

Rolisteel.1375:

necro needs mobility other classes need a survivability and burst damage tune down after that everything balanced.

Neg

Necro is fine at the competitive and organized play level. What it needs is a viable alternate spec that can be used for solo play.

If they was able to stack classes, they would prefer by a lot a mallyx revenant for boon corruption(into confusion). At last they will not spend all the time ressing the necro to don’t get a overnumer disadvantage.

Silv.9207:

Kuya.6495:

Rolisteel.1375:

necro needs mobility other classes need a survivability and burst damage tune down after that everything balanced.

Neg

Necro is fine at the competitive and organized play level. What it needs is a viable alternate spec that can be used for solo play.

If they was able to stack classes, they would prefer by a lot a mallyx revenant for boon corruption(into confusion). At last they will not spend all the time ressing the necro to don’t get a overnumer disadvantage.

Mallyx removes boons, not corruption.

Kuya.6495:

Silv.9207:

Kuya.6495:

Rolisteel.1375:

necro needs mobility other classes need a survivability and burst damage tune down after that everything balanced.

Neg

Necro is fine at the competitive and organized play level. What it needs is a viable alternate spec that can be used for solo play.

If they was able to stack classes, they would prefer by a lot a mallyx revenant for boon corruption(into confusion). At last they will not spend all the time ressing the necro to don’t get a overnumer disadvantage.

Mallyx removes boons, not corruption.

Yes he do, a Lot. But in Confusion instead of other non damaging conditions (almost All the boons you find in game don’t become damaging conditions or even useful enough in stack or duration to inflict damage)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spontaneous_Destruction

Banish is a Movement Skill with 600 range (barely istant), AoE and unblockable that inflict 3 Confusion for every boon removed (2 boon 6 confusion, a damage that a necro can not even think to have on his corruption build), also spammable much more than necro signets. Reve mallyx also have a lot of Resistance and can steal conditions from allies (similar to necro plague signet, but better).
Then, when he need more support, he can swap on herald, or better direct damage with sword+shield and swap to Shiro and burst down everything on his way.
Double (high) damage source, a lot of defensive skills/traits/boons, boon spam and a lot of AoE boon corruption. What do you want more?
A necro will never be able to do similar things.

Silv.9207:

Kuya.6495:

Silv.9207:

Kuya.6495:

Rolisteel.1375:

necro needs mobility other classes need a survivability and burst damage tune down after that everything balanced.

Neg

Necro is fine at the competitive and organized play level. What it needs is a viable alternate spec that can be used for solo play.

If they was able to stack classes, they would prefer by a lot a mallyx revenant for boon corruption(into confusion). At last they will not spend all the time ressing the necro to don’t get a overnumer disadvantage.

Mallyx removes boons, not corruption.

Yes he do, a Lot. But in Confusion instead of other non damaging conditions (almost All the boons you find in game don’t become damaging conditions or even useful enough in stack or duration to inflict damage)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banish_Enchantment
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spontaneous_Destruction

Banish is a Movement Skill with 600 range (barely istant), AoE and unblockable that inflict 3 Confusion for every boon removed (2 boon 6 confusion, a damage that a necro can not even think to have on his corruption build), also spammable much more than necro signets. Reve mallyx also have a lot of Resistance and can steal conditions from allies (similar to necro plague signet, but better).
Then, when he need more support, he can swap on herald, or better direct damage with sword+shield and swap to Shiro and burst down everything on his way.
Double (high) damage source, a lot of defensive skills/traits/boons, boon spam and a lot of AoE boon corruption. What do you want more?
A necro will never be able to do similar things.

The skill description you linked quite literally says remove, not corrupt. As in, even if the target has no boons, the confusion is applied because they are two independent mechanics. Now i’m pretty sure banish is neither a movement skill nor does it apply 3 stacks of confusion per boon removed but someone who’s played rev more recently will have to confirm for me since i haven’t touched condi rev since S1 (because it’s bad).

Now since i don’t play at esl level, someone who does will have to inform you why they rather use necros over condi revs despite your enthusiastic defense.

because they have a power rev in the team? and they can’t stack classes.

Kuya.6495:

Necro is fine at the competitive and organized play level. What it needs is a viable alternate spec that can be used for solo play.

I have a hard time saying necros are even viable at competitive play because of how often they’re in downstate. Even with dedicated pocket healer/rezzers, under organized gameplay conditions, necros still don’t live for long. This tells you the class design is whack, because even organized teams can’t keep necros up.

I’ve said this before, I’m hoping devs don’t look at pro tourneys and think it’s ok for necros to be downstate so much due to safe/fast rez. Because for majority of the players out there, they won’t have access to dedicated pocket healer/rezzer. Maybe with the upcoming revive changes that they’ll see just how ridiculous it is to allow a class to be downstate so often.

It’s worth noting even back during early seasons when necros were a tad on the overtuned side, back before no class stacking rule was in place for pro tourneys, teams were not stacking necros. In fact teams were stacking revs & eles, many teams didn’t even take a necro. This was back when necros were even more ridiculous pre-chill nerfs. So with no class stacking rule in place, we see a bit more necros in the tourneys, I highly doubt this is due to how poweful necros are. But rather, out of the classes available, and due to no class stacking rule, people have limited choices and perhaps a necro is the better choice for them, a lesser of evils sort of thing.

This and the fact that NA teams lacked quality mesmers, so some classes weren’t taken due to lack of skilled players rather than “omg necros are so powerful we must have one”. If Anet was to lift the no class stacking rule, I’m willing to bet we’ll see less necros and the return of certain stacked classes.

People keep saying in order for necros to get better defense and mobility/escapes, we need to sacrifice something. The problem here is that the only proper way to nerf a necro is to nerf their boon corruption, because boon corruption is the only reason a necro is “viable” and taken at all. No it’s not because necros have super duper burst, no it’s not because necros have great sustain or mobility, necros simply have boon corruption that counters op elite specs that fart out boons & heals. People need to think carefully if you really want to take necro’s boon corruption away because boon corruption is the only thing keeping HoT elite specs in check since the expansion launch.

MethaneGas.8357:

Oh my god… people and their issues with Flesh Wurm. People STILL say “er me gerd it has such cast time”? Really? Haven’t you learned how to use it already? Flesh Wurm has no cast time.

Misconceptions about wurm (things which are wrong):
1) People kill it all the time
—No one kills it. ESL players, even the top of the top, don’t even attack the wurm. What you need to keep in mind is that the wurm will teleport to you in a 1200 direction towards it. This means you place the wurm before a fight and you can be 100000 miles away from it, but it will still port you in its direction. In other words, the wurm is out of enemy sight.
2) It bugs out all the time
—It bugs out sometimes, but that just takes practice. If you first use the skill, you’ll notice it bug out a lot because you won’t know how it works and what makes it bug. After a while, the skill will work 95% of the time and you’ll know all the safe spots.
3) It takes you the same amount of time to cast the skill as it would take you to walk to the place
-- You need to flip your screen and cast the wurm BACK with the enemy chasing you. He won’t see the wurm behind him. You pop the wurm and bam, you’re 1200 units away from your chaser. Alternatively, pre-cast the wurm before a fight, which you should always, always do.
4) It’s useless as a disengage because everything else teleports to you anyway
—Depends. If a revenant chases you, you need to see which legend he is in. If he’s in Shiro, he may port, but that’s not likely if he needs energy. If you ported away from a Revenant, you can drop marks at your feet. He will port to you and kaboom.
—Thieves can only really catch up fast if they had Steal ready at that exact time. If not, they won’t be able to catch up too quickly and you can throw marks at them while they’re trying to get to you.
—Longbow (but not shield/scepter + sword/focus dragonhunters) have Judge’s Intervention. This is the thing they can catch up to you with, but if they used Judge’s Intervention to burst you in the first place, they won’t have it ready when you port. They could also use sword teleport, but sword’s range is lower than your wurm.

Spectral Walk. Spectral Walk is an amazing kiting tool, especially when used with wurm. Spectral Walk with Spectral Attunement can bring you at a 2000 distance from where you used it, if not more. If you combine it with wurm, you can port 3200 distance. Once again, people don’t see the value of Spectral Walk. I usually use it when I’m seeing that I’m about to get focused (you see several enemies going for you). I start SWalk, use Locust Swarm and use shroud. Jump right into the fight or kite somewhere to lead them on a goose chase. Exit shroud, port back to your original spot which is far from enemies by now, drop staff marks on them while you’re running away even farther.

Personally, I have no problems staying alive as a Reaper or even as a base Necro. The onlyproblem I DO have is the in-sane sustain other classes have, when compared to a Necro. Necro sustain, imo, feels really good but it’s the overpowered sustain of everything else that makes it seem so weak.

You must be superman then because watching pro-league all I saw was the necro being rezzed over and over again. In lower levels of solo play you just die and don’t get rezzed most of the time. Sure if you have an organized team to babysit and rez you over and over again you can have a large effect on the match as a Reaper but to me thats ridiculous lengths to have to go to. But regardless of skill level you will be downed frequently as a necro to deny that and say it doesn’t happen to you all I can say is you are extremely fortunate or lying.

Crinn.7864:

I was just spitballing numbers. Obviously it would have a ICD too.

But really healing through shroud does little for us because it completely misses the problem.

Necros already pair well with supports. That’s what allows the ESL teams to run glass necros since they can just pair them off with supports and they are golden.

What necros can’t do is function without a pocket support. And healing through shroud doesn’t address that. All healing through shroud does is make necros with pocket support excessively strong while still screwing over solo-queuing necros.

You are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.

Actually, this helps to solve the EXACT problem that exists: Necros are GREAT in organized ESL with private support that can communicate to heal you when you are out of deathshroud, but WAY worse to play in soloQ when you can’t communicate “going into DS” or “leaving DS.”

Allowing healing in DS wouldn’t really impact high level play significantly (maybe it forces you to reduce DS a little or reduce the % from 100 to 80% or something), but improves the soloQ performance SIGNIFICANTLY. Even an intelligent player who is trying to play around your DS will just waste many heals due to the speed of information passing being effectively only what you see in soloQ.

Would be interesting to maybe let heal through shroud but take a little life force when it happens. So you could top up the necro at a cost of say 30% to 50% life force.

Rigante.2470:

MethaneGas.8357:

Oh my god… people and their issues with Flesh Wurm. People STILL say “er me gerd it has such cast time”? Really? Haven’t you learned how to use it already? Flesh Wurm has no cast time.

Misconceptions about wurm (things which are wrong):
1) People kill it all the time
—No one kills it. ESL players, even the top of the top, don’t even attack the wurm. What you need to keep in mind is that the wurm will teleport to you in a 1200 direction towards it. This means you place the wurm before a fight and you can be 100000 miles away from it, but it will still port you in its direction. In other words, the wurm is out of enemy sight.
2) It bugs out all the time
—It bugs out sometimes, but that just takes practice. If you first use the skill, you’ll notice it bug out a lot because you won’t know how it works and what makes it bug. After a while, the skill will work 95% of the time and you’ll know all the safe spots.
3) It takes you the same amount of time to cast the skill as it would take you to walk to the place
-- You need to flip your screen and cast the wurm BACK with the enemy chasing you. He won’t see the wurm behind him. You pop the wurm and bam, you’re 1200 units away from your chaser. Alternatively, pre-cast the wurm before a fight, which you should always, always do.
4) It’s useless as a disengage because everything else teleports to you anyway
—Depends. If a revenant chases you, you need to see which legend he is in. If he’s in Shiro, he may port, but that’s not likely if he needs energy. If you ported away from a Revenant, you can drop marks at your feet. He will port to you and kaboom.
—Thieves can only really catch up fast if they had Steal ready at that exact time. If not, they won’t be able to catch up too quickly and you can throw marks at them while they’re trying to get to you.
—Longbow (but not shield/scepter + sword/focus dragonhunters) have Judge’s Intervention. This is the thing they can catch up to you with, but if they used Judge’s Intervention to burst you in the first place, they won’t have it ready when you port. They could also use sword teleport, but sword’s range is lower than your wurm.

Spectral Walk. Spectral Walk is an amazing kiting tool, especially when used with wurm. Spectral Walk with Spectral Attunement can bring you at a 2000 distance from where you used it, if not more. If you combine it with wurm, you can port 3200 distance. Once again, people don’t see the value of Spectral Walk. I usually use it when I’m seeing that I’m about to get focused (you see several enemies going for you). I start SWalk, use Locust Swarm and use shroud. Jump right into the fight or kite somewhere to lead them on a goose chase. Exit shroud, port back to your original spot which is far from enemies by now, drop staff marks on them while you’re running away even farther.

Personally, I have no problems staying alive as a Reaper or even as a base Necro. The onlyproblem I DO have is the in-sane sustain other classes have, when compared to a Necro. Necro sustain, imo, feels really good but it’s the overpowered sustain of everything else that makes it seem so weak.

You must be superman then because watching pro-league all I saw was the necro being rezzed over and over again. In lower levels of solo play you just die and don’t get rezzed most of the time. Sure if you have an organized team to babysit and rez you over and over again you can have a large effect on the match as a Reaper but to me thats ridiculous lengths to have to go to. But regardless of skill level you will be downed frequently as a necro to deny that and say it doesn’t happen to you all I can say is you are extremely fortunate or lying.

actually the people who won used necro in the reverse. denial from my understanding used a tanky necro to rez everyone else.

what?
https://youtu.be/3xXJovG2Vsw?t=1093

They used the meta build… And for your information Necro must be the worst class to rez mates!

actually the people who won used necro in the reverse. denial from my understanding used a tanky necro to rez everyone else.

Best comment so far, waiting for more.

sophiewhite.3149:

Rigante.2470:

MethaneGas.8357:

Oh my god… people and their issues with Flesh Wurm. People STILL say “er me gerd it has such cast time”? Really? Haven’t you learned how to use it already? Flesh Wurm has no cast time.

Misconceptions about wurm (things which are wrong):
1) People kill it all the time
—No one kills it. ESL players, even the top of the top, don’t even attack the wurm. What you need to keep in mind is that the wurm will teleport to you in a 1200 direction towards it. This means you place the wurm before a fight and you can be 100000 miles away from it, but it will still port you in its direction. In other words, the wurm is out of enemy sight.
2) It bugs out all the time
—It bugs out sometimes, but that just takes practice. If you first use the skill, you’ll notice it bug out a lot because you won’t know how it works and what makes it bug. After a while, the skill will work 95% of the time and you’ll know all the safe spots.
3) It takes you the same amount of time to cast the skill as it would take you to walk to the place
-- You need to flip your screen and cast the wurm BACK with the enemy chasing you. He won’t see the wurm behind him. You pop the wurm and bam, you’re 1200 units away from your chaser. Alternatively, pre-cast the wurm before a fight, which you should always, always do.
4) It’s useless as a disengage because everything else teleports to you anyway
—Depends. If a revenant chases you, you need to see which legend he is in. If he’s in Shiro, he may port, but that’s not likely if he needs energy. If you ported away from a Revenant, you can drop marks at your feet. He will port to you and kaboom.
—Thieves can only really catch up fast if they had Steal ready at that exact time. If not, they won’t be able to catch up too quickly and you can throw marks at them while they’re trying to get to you.
—Longbow (but not shield/scepter + sword/focus dragonhunters) have Judge’s Intervention. This is the thing they can catch up to you with, but if they used Judge’s Intervention to burst you in the first place, they won’t have it ready when you port. They could also use sword teleport, but sword’s range is lower than your wurm.

Spectral Walk. Spectral Walk is an amazing kiting tool, especially when used with wurm. Spectral Walk with Spectral Attunement can bring you at a 2000 distance from where you used it, if not more. If you combine it with wurm, you can port 3200 distance. Once again, people don’t see the value of Spectral Walk. I usually use it when I’m seeing that I’m about to get focused (you see several enemies going for you). I start SWalk, use Locust Swarm and use shroud. Jump right into the fight or kite somewhere to lead them on a goose chase. Exit shroud, port back to your original spot which is far from enemies by now, drop staff marks on them while you’re running away even farther.

Personally, I have no problems staying alive as a Reaper or even as a base Necro. The onlyproblem I DO have is the in-sane sustain other classes have, when compared to a Necro. Necro sustain, imo, feels really good but it’s the overpowered sustain of everything else that makes it seem so weak.

You must be superman then because watching pro-league all I saw was the necro being rezzed over and over again. In lower levels of solo play you just die and don’t get rezzed most of the time. Sure if you have an organized team to babysit and rez you over and over again you can have a large effect on the match as a Reaper but to me thats ridiculous lengths to have to go to. But regardless of skill level you will be downed frequently as a necro to deny that and say it doesn’t happen to you all I can say is you are extremely fortunate or lying.

actually the people who won used necro in the reverse. denial from my understanding used a tanky necro to rez everyone else.

Yah, denial swapped engi for nec cause rezz potential is much better

Gaining more survivability via traits? utilities? or weapon skills? or proff mechanic?
When you add/change something - something will change/be added.
If all changes for more survivability will be played around death shround then proffesion will be far more orientated at its proffesion mechanic to degree of being gated to it.
If you add blocks/invu you will need balance other things.
Like:
Spectral Walk - for 2,5s block attacks and gain 2,5s superspeed.
or
Spectral Walk - for 2,5s invurlability and 2,5s superspeed, still receive condition dmg.
That will raise cd from 40s to 70/80s.
If you will keep adding blocks/invu/evade changes like that may occure:
You don’t receive life force when blocking/invurlable.
or even
Skills that blocks/invu/evade costs life force.

Like with example of Spectral Walk it will change how its used. Different skill. Different play experience.

So present how wanna play, what fresh wanna try. Becouse new experience with evades/block/invu may be welcome or not.