Guild Wars 2

Supreme.3164:

And the enemy must go through massive aoe spam to even get close to the necro, most times their attempts will be for nothing as they’ll die before reaching their goal, by the time they manage to low necro HP…he’ll pop RS and 5-4 for massive cleave dmg+chill for days….I’m glad Anet took notice of necros in soloq, the reality is nothing like described on these forums full of exaggerations and dramas..like killing necros in 1-2s…lol

Ho and you know why we target necro?…To avoid the inc mark spamming + traps spamming on point that wipe the entire team

Is true that the enemy has to go through AoE to reach you, but is also true that you can simply move around the aoe spam and be safe and exist Ranged Arracks and Teleports (or evading movement skills) that make you cross that AoE field without any problem or damage. If you die to reach a necro, is only a your problem, you’ve only a L2P issue, nothing more.

Also, if you fear Necro marks you have seriously some L2P issue…

The necromancer isn’t the class with lesser HP Pool but is the easiest to kill (and frequently the faster to) simply why don’t have any kind of defensive skills. No Immunity, no Block, no evade, you simply land every sing skill you cast on him without any problem, making you able to CC him to death or kill him seriously in 3 seconds.

A necromancer can die in lesser than 5 seconds in 1vs1. How? Find a revenant, be hit by his sword3 then staff5 (plus heavy Cc that not even the reaper shroud 3 can sustain) and you’re already barely dead (more or less 12-15k with the current builds), few simple hits and you’re dead in lesser than 5 seconds.
if you find a thief is even faster to get killed by heavy CC (elite) or simply get dazed+bursted down by backstab and insane AA damage (sometimes with also quickness, if the thief use it), then insta dead by elite (if the thief is good enough to use it to down you with the second hit and finish you witht he third).

Kill a necromancer is the easiest thing to d in this meta.
Necromancers don’t have any kind of good damage source or skill out of Reaper Shroud 5+4 combo, then you just need to block/evade/move away and you’re safe from the only damaging skill of the necro. Then simply burst him down and gg, you killed a necro easy and fast.

5+4 which also gets interrupted when you start to cast it lol easy to teleport out of it, run away from it, avoid it with block, evade, invu 100% mitigation. dodges. Some people talk here about necromancers like we are talking about solo Amber Emerald Sapphire level where everyone eats necromancers all damage. We are talking about facing solo high end pvpers.

Silv knows what i talking about so probably he isn’t an amber sapphire level necro.

I don’t know if I should laugh or cry about what I’m reading here
Necro DOESN’T die in 1~2 sec, but he becomes a punch bag
It seems most of your forgot the goal of this chat, “Life Force”
I will pick the other characters… Revenant is always at 50%, Warrior and Guardian both possess Elite skills that fully recharge their mechanics, Thief and Mesmer can easily use their mechanics without problems, Ranger doesn’t even have anything to worry, am I missing something ?
Now look at Necro, he CANNOT use his mechanic at all on a match, let it he 1vs1, 5vs5, Team Match or Random without literally plead for some near death or what, ask a enemy to stay put while he keep piling up life force ?

And again, other so intelligent player say that “Marks and Conditions” are OP
I ask again, then what about those WHO don’t use them ?
All other classes can use other skills, Warrior can use Physical, Shouts or Signets, Guardian can use Spirit Weapons, Traps or Shouts ( or Stances, I don’t know )
Thief’s can use Venom, Deception, Physical
Mesmer can use those Clock skills, Clones and who knows what else
Now the Necromancer can only be good at PvP IF he uses Marks and Staff ? Is that what you say ?

I think this discussion is going in circles…if you want to soloq then swap class, this is a heartfelt suggestion, avoid necro or ele and you’ll be fine, despite how much I love the ele concept, its implementation is simply horrid , no matter how much I try…I get useless results, the dps is below low and the sustain requires vast amount of kiting and healing..only to go down to 1/4 HP at the first hit

Made a druid some time ago, ascended gear and all the fluff, I tried for months on ele both wvw and pvp, the profession simply sucks balls outside organized groups and while having a specific role.

If you’re a solo player like me, do not play ele or necro it’s that simple, both of them have become zerg class like concept, if you play either one of them as solo player in GW2 2016…you will only frustrate yourself.

Do yourself a favour and change class, made a ranger: not need to worry about having enough healing power/vitality or toughness – no need to worry about landing 2s+ casting skills – no need to worry about lining up several skills in a perfect planetary order to see any resemblance of dmg…I don’t need to worry about anything but do dmg and small kiting..

Darkness.8421:

Necro DOESN’T die in 1~2 sec, but he becomes a punch bag

https://www.twitch.tv/djzapp/v/96510073

02:07 and thats only just an 1v1 not team focus.

Thats my level of play as i’ve played with and against Flawless Spocka some matches. I getting that level of enemy players.

I would rather delete GW2 than to change class, I do possess a Revenant ( Shiro Tagachi and Ventari ) and a Thief ( Pistols with Tricks ), and with those two I can’t even hurt anyone at all
And I will repeat, the moment I turn myself into Reaper ( that’s is, after suffering two humiliating defeats all in order to gain Life Force enough ), I “reap” everything on my path ( maybe except Thief with bow who keeps shadow steeping everywhere and shooting non-stop )

I’m just asking, giving the Necro the possibility to use 20% of his mechanic at the beggining of a PvP match would be that menacing for the other classes ?

Rolisteel.1375:

Darkness.8421:

Necro DOESN’T die in 1~2 sec, but he becomes a punch bag

https://www.twitch.tv/djzapp/v/96510073

02:07 and thats only just an 1v1 not team focus.

Thats my level of play as i’ve played with and against Flawless Spocka some matches. I getting that level of enemy players.

It really seems that you don’t get it…so let me explain it in more “practical terms”

-Anet usee elites to sell expansions
-Anet nerfs professions to a level where elite is required to play at all
-Anet forces every elite in a specific role for the sake of gameplay, to limit the effort they’d need otherwise to create better gameplay
-If you want to 1vs1 or be more solo friendly as class…anet will make an elite for that in next expansion..so that you will compelled to buy it

Do you get it now why reaper like tempest won’t be ever the 1v1 power house you seek?…but hey feel free to keep asking on the forum, see how far it brings you

Supreme of you answer was directed to me then allow me to reply with a simple statement: if Necro is not supposed to be fixed up to the level of all other classes, then fix them all down to Necro level

What I mean with this is that in the past, BEFORE Heart of Thorns, all classes could fight each other on equal terms, I remember killing physical warrior but having a kitten time with Bow Signet Warrior, easily killing Dagger thief ( I was a Blood Minion Master at that time ) but pistol thief would burst me down, toying with Bow Ranger until one of them switch to GreatSword and cleave me down
That was true PvP, where Metas would clash against each other, and no class was better or worse than the other

Now look at it, it seems ArenaNet is degrading Heart of the Mists instead of improving it
I’m just asking, I mean demanding balance
I don’t mind being killed by 2 guys at the same time, but I do want to give them a hard time, and not suffer a humiliating defeat without even scratching them

If you want me to be extreme, then I say to remove the Heart of Thorn “powers” from the Hearts of the Mists, because this leads to another problem, how do you think that the players who didn’t buy the expansion ( and I don’t mean the Free Player, I mean the Veterans ) feel when being stomped by those who had the capacity or the means to “acquire that new power” ?
They might even say that GW2 sucks because its P2W, something that’s not true

I don’t really care about 1v1 but i care about being able to survive more than 3-6sec and be able to control my character for more than 3-6sec / fight lol.
Thats all i care about.
Your fights last 3-6sec you have no chance to fight back or do any pressure they own you without losing much or any hp.
What i dont understand is why its so hard to make it able to stay alive longer at high level when it also barely do any damage.
You do like 300-500k damage / match ( up to how aggressive mode they zerg you ) against higher level players, others do 700-800k and more.

This is my last post in this topic.

Darkness.8421:

Supreme of you answer was directed to me then allow me to reply with a simple statement: if Necro is not supposed to be fixed up to the level of all other classes, then fix them all down to Necro level

What I mean with this is that in the past, BEFORE Heart of Thorns, all classes could fight each other on equal terms, I remember killing physical warrior but having a kitten time with Bow Signet Warrior, easily killing Dagger thief ( I was a Blood Minion Master at that time ) but pistol thief would burst me down, toying with Bow Ranger until one of them switch to GreatSword and cleave me down
That was true PvP, where Metas would clash against each other, and no class was better or worse than the other

Now look at it, it seems ArenaNet is degrading Heart of the Mists instead of improving it
I’m just asking, I mean demanding balance
I don’t mind being killed by 2 guys at the same time, but I do want to give them a hard time, and not suffer a humiliating defeat without even scratching them

And my answer doesn’t change if you want to avoid suffering these humiliating defeats at the hand of basically everybody…stop trying to 1vs1 people on a reaper or tempest they’re not meant for that..and never will be, necro and ele will get a 1vs1 elite (possibly) next exp.

It’s time for people (me included ) to come to term with Anet balance philosophy , they have a concept in mind for every class and it seems that some of them are not meant to be strong in 1vs1 at all, they changed direction from 2012, whether immoral or not…they did change

Now if all you want is 20-50% DS before match starts..go on nothing much will change for you, if you want to be decent in 1vs1…change class and stop torturing yourself.

Made a druid, playing LB-s/w and it suits me, I do what interests me : to play as a roamer/light team support, I win my 1vs1 through skills and can avoid to be almost insta killed when heavily focused, I can run away etc etc

Rolisteel.1375:

Don’t lie please, you target necromancers because they are the easiest to shut down with cc’s and easiest to kill. Everyone with brain know that other than that all is crap talking and lies. Putting marks or even using all your skills that barely do any damage as the pvp community play and stack classes that are full of block,evade,miss,invu 100% damage mitigation, stealth, dodge + condi clear and high mobility.

ive never killed a necro or been killed on my necro because its easy to shut me down. ever. its always because if you dont the necro is going to kill every single one of you when freecrasting.

Supreme.3164:

Rolisteel.1375:

Darkness.8421:

Necro DOESN’T die in 1~2 sec, but he becomes a punch bag

https://www.twitch.tv/djzapp/v/96510073

02:07 and thats only just an 1v1 not team focus.

Thats my level of play as i’ve played with and against Flawless Spocka some matches. I getting that level of enemy players.

It really seems that you don’t get it…so let me explain it in more “practical terms”

-Anet usee elites to sell expansions
-Anet nerfs professions to a level where elite is required to play at all
-Anet forces every elite in a specific role for the sake of gameplay, to limit the effort they’d need otherwise to create better gameplay
-If you want to 1vs1 or be more solo friendly as class…anet will make an elite for that in next expansion..so that you will compelled to buy it

Do you get it now why reaper like tempest won’t be ever the 1v1 power house you seek?…but hey feel free to keep asking on the forum, see how far it brings you

Well technically reaper is also a failure for its specific role (though i am not sure if they realize it or care). It is supposed to be really good in big melee fights hence why it has so much cleave but yet reapers rarely are in the frontline of wvw zergs. Necros even if they take reaper e-spec, they stay in the backline/midline for well bombing, mark spam because they have a much harder time surviving the melee train then the classical frontline professions (warrior, guardian etc.) and thats with 100% life force. And greatsword as a result is rarely taken in an area (WvW zerg fight) in which it should excel.

Though that may not have much relevance for this tread (since you always have lf in WvW).

sophiewhite.3149:

ive never killed a necro or been killed on my necro because its easy to shut me down. ever. its always because if you dont the necro is going to kill every single one of you when freecrasting.

Tell me: what class leaved alone to freecast on your team is not dangerous?
Yes, a necromancer that freecast on your team is a pain, but also a ranger, a guardian, a warrior, a mesmer, even a dps ele (with high damage AoE).

I don’t focus the enemy necro why is stronger than the other classes if I let him freecast, I focus him why I’m shure at 100% that I’m able to kill him fast and easy, making the enemy team fight in 4v5 for 20+ seconds.

One time I was accorded to my team to leave the enemy necro alive and it was not even able to make us problems. When he vas in RS we just bursted him out and stop, he was not able to inflict any good damage on us, I don’t even noticed any of his damage.

Any other class leaved alone is a more dangerous class than a necromancer. At last a necro can corrupt your boons, nothing more. No good condition damage out of shroud (that is really easy to burst off why don’t have any defensive ability or condi clean, and out of RS5+4 don’t have any good condi skills), no survavibility, no mobility (then can’t steal your points), easy to kill why don’t have any defensive skills, no bunker build, no dps build.

A necromancer is good Only in a Super Organized Team. That’s true. And that’s the Problem.

Boon corrupt build is barely useless in a pug team and we don’t have any other way to make that class useful. medium-Low damage, No survavibility, No mobility, No defensive support.

The BIG problem will be in the Next Season. (even more than in this one)
Why?
Because ANet is making the Ranked section of the sPvP a PUG related game.
Then, we’ll have a class that is Barely good in super organized high level teams that will be forced to play in Pug Only teams.
Wow, our future is gonna Shine!

Silv.9207:

sophiewhite.3149:

ive never killed a necro or been killed on my necro because its easy to shut me down. ever. its always because if you dont the necro is going to kill every single one of you when freecrasting.

Tell me: what class leaved alone to freecast on your team is not dangerous?
Yes, a necromancer that freecast on your team is a pain, but also a ranger, a guardian, a warrior, a mesmer, even a dps ele (with high damage AoE).

I don’t focus the enemy necro why is stronger than the other classes if I let him freecast, I focus him why I’m shure at 100% that I’m able to kill him fast and easy, making the enemy team fight in 4v5 for 20+ seconds.

One time I was accorded to my team to leave the enemy necro alive and it was not even able to make us problems. When he vas in RS we just bursted him out and stop, he was not able to inflict any good damage on us, I don’t even noticed any of his damage.

Any other class leaved alone is a more dangerous class than a necromancer. At last a necro can corrupt your boons, nothing more. No good condition damage out of shroud (that is really easy to burst off why don’t have any defensive ability or condi clean, and out of RS5+4 don’t have any good condi skills), no survavibility, no mobility (then can’t steal your points), easy to kill why don’t have any defensive skills, no bunker build, no dps build.

A necromancer is good Only in a Super Organized Team. That’s true. And that’s the Problem.

Boon corrupt build is barely useless in a pug team and we don’t have any other way to make that class useful. medium-Low damage, No survavibility, No mobility, No defensive support.

The BIG problem will be in the Next Season. (even more than in this one)
Why?
Because ANet is making the Ranked section of the sPvP a PUG related game.
Then, we’ll have a class that is Barely good in super organized high level teams that will be forced to play in Pug Only teams.
Wow, our future is gonna Shine!

classes that cant wipe a entire 5man if left alone for a few seconds? all of them can. guess that means necro is balanced huh.calling necro barely good is about as dishonest as you can get. necro is amazing. i love playing it. did you just say necro doesnt have good condi clear? now i know your just straight up lieing. my necro has 3 full condi clears. 1 on staff and 2 in skills. super easy to use all of them and 1 of them has no cast time. you also said necro has no good condi. dude get out with that. necro is the best condi class to date.

sophiewhite.3149:

did you just say necro doesnt have good condi clear? now i know your just straight up lieing. my necro has 3 full condi clears.1 on staff and 2 in skills. super easy to use all of them and 1 of them has no cast time.

Calling somebody a liar and then immediately following that up with spreading misinformation.
Great move 10/10!

sophiewhite.3149:

Silv.9207:

sophiewhite.3149:

ive never killed a necro or been killed on my necro because its easy to shut me down. ever. its always because if you dont the necro is going to kill every single one of you when freecrasting.

Tell me: what class leaved alone to freecast on your team is not dangerous?
Yes, a necromancer that freecast on your team is a pain, but also a ranger, a guardian, a warrior, a mesmer, even a dps ele (with high damage AoE).

I don’t focus the enemy necro why is stronger than the other classes if I let him freecast, I focus him why I’m shure at 100% that I’m able to kill him fast and easy, making the enemy team fight in 4v5 for 20+ seconds.

One time I was accorded to my team to leave the enemy necro alive and it was not even able to make us problems. When he vas in RS we just bursted him out and stop, he was not able to inflict any good damage on us, I don’t even noticed any of his damage.

Any other class leaved alone is a more dangerous class than a necromancer. At last a necro can corrupt your boons, nothing more. No good condition damage out of shroud (that is really easy to burst off why don’t have any defensive ability or condi clean, and out of RS5+4 don’t have any good condi skills), no survavibility, no mobility (then can’t steal your points), easy to kill why don’t have any defensive skills, no bunker build, no dps build.

A necromancer is good Only in a Super Organized Team. That’s true. And that’s the Problem.

Boon corrupt build is barely useless in a pug team and we don’t have any other way to make that class useful. medium-Low damage, No survavibility, No mobility, No defensive support.

The BIG problem will be in the Next Season. (even more than in this one)
Why?
Because ANet is making the Ranked section of the sPvP a PUG related game.
Then, we’ll have a class that is Barely good in super organized high level teams that will be forced to play in Pug Only teams.
Wow, our future is gonna Shine!

classes that cant wipe a entire 5man if left alone for a few seconds? all of them can. guess that means necro is balanced huh.calling necro barely good is about as dishonest as you can get. necro is amazing. i love playing it. did you just say necro doesnt have good condi clear? now i know your just straight up lieing. my necro has 3 full condi clears. 1 on staff and 2 in skills. super easy to use all of them and 1 of them has no cast time. you also said necro has no good condi. dude get out with that. necro is the best condi class to date.

There are currently 14 conditions in the game hence a full clear has to remove 14 conditions.

Consume conditons is the only one that works without prerequisites. Staff 4 is only a full condi clear with 5 targets hit. For the rest they actually arent full clears, Lich 5 is only 12 (should actually 14 but Anet never bothered to increase the number with the introduction of slow and taunt), dagger 4 also only has the potantial to transfer 12. The rest of the skills is capped at 5 conditions (well of power, plague signet, suffer etc.)

So necro have technically only 1 real full condition clear and an additonal one when you can hit 5 targets with it.

Going back to silvs comment, he is probably implying with bad condi clear that most ways to deal with conditions on necro are transfers and if they miss/get dodged/get blocked/i-framed etc. you dont lose the conditions. Hence it is quite risky. Necros have actually only 3 skills that outright remove conditions namely consume conditions, well of power and grim specter and for traits there is only shrouded removel. All other things need succesful attacks on targets.

Supreme.3164:

Stop crying about necro omfg…they’re broken OP condi spammers , just give them slight support and all you’ll see is mark spam+death nova on the point= brainless class

Chronophantasma condi Mesmer, and Condi warrior both easily outstrip necros in condition damage, application, and burst.

sophiewhite.3149:

classes that cant wipe a entire 5man if left alone for a few seconds? all of them can. guess that means necro is balanced huh.calling necro barely good is about as dishonest as you can get. necro is amazing. i love playing it. did you just say necro doesnt have good condi clear? now i know your just straight up lieing. my necro has 3 full condi clears. 1 on staff and 2 in skills. super easy to use all of them and 1 of them has no cast time. you also said necro has no good condi. dude get out with that. necro is the best condi class to date.

In truth I was talking about when in Shroud and how easy is for every kind of class/build to burst us out of it… (just read better next time, please)

Out of the Shroud we have the staff, the signet and the heal (plus the PS by the trait if you use course). I don’t even talk about the well because no one use it for his high CD and slow effect (still if it’s good in team fight). in shroud you can have the PS trait but it’s not an active skill and can work whenever you crit, becoming useful or barely useful depending on the situation and your luck.

Also is true that the necro have only a single condi clean skill (Corruption Heal), that is the only way to clean conditions for a necro. If not with that skill, you Need to hit someone and if he dodge,block,blind,invulnerable you miss the condi transfer and your few chances to remove that pain from you. That is a condi clear mechanic that is specifically of the necromancer and frequently grant us some troubles. But also is the better way for a necromancer to obtain condition damage why our condi output without the RS5+4 is really low if compared to other classes.

I’m not the best necro ever but I know what I’m talking about.

Silv.9207:

sophiewhite.3149:

classes that cant wipe a entire 5man if left alone for a few seconds? all of them can. guess that means necro is balanced huh.calling necro barely good is about as dishonest as you can get. necro is amazing. i love playing it. did you just say necro doesnt have good condi clear? now i know your just straight up lieing. my necro has 3 full condi clears. 1 on staff and 2 in skills. super easy to use all of them and 1 of them has no cast time. you also said necro has no good condi. dude get out with that. necro is the best condi class to date.

In truth I was talking about when in Shroud and how easy is for every kind of class/build to burst us out of it… (just read better next time, please)

Out of the Shroud we have the staff, the signet and the heal (plus the PS by the trait if you use course). I don’t even talk about the well because no one use it for his high CD and slow effect (still if it’s good in team fight). in shroud you can have the PS trait but it’s not an active skill and can work whenever you crit, becoming useful or barely useful depending on the situation and your luck.

Also is true that the necro have only a single condi clean skill (Corruption Heal), that is the only way to clean conditions for a necro. If not with that skill, you Need to hit someone and if he dodge,block,blind,invulnerable you miss the condi transfer and your few chances to remove that pain from you. That is a condi clear mechanic that is specifically of the necromancer and frequently grant us some troubles. But also is the better way for a necromancer to obtain condition damage why our condi output without the RS5+4 is really low if compared to other classes.

I’m not the best necro ever but I know what I’m talking about.

Well you are wrong on some of the things you say though.

First plague sending isnt the only “condition removel” trait necros have. There is also spiteful removel (which is kinda bad since you need an opponent with 25% health or less), shrouded removel (it is actually a good trait but sadly not good enough to make deathmagic viable for non mm builds) and of course necromatic corruption (which needs minions do to anything). And the best part is they all work in shroud.

Second consume conditions isnt the only condition removel skill. Well of power (which is not that amazing) and grim specter (tied to Lich) are also true condition removel skills (aka work without targets).

To be clear most of the things i listed wont do you much good in a match but you know… only because traits/skills arent viable for whatever reason it may be, it doesnt mean they dont exist.

Honestly making deathmagic more viable as a traitline for non mm builds would probably help alot. But for that soul comprehnsion needs a rework into something useful and probably some number changes to unholy sanctuary (the healing is pitiful).

Crinn.7864:

Supreme.3164:

Stop crying about necro omfg…they’re broken OP condi spammers , just give them slight support and all you’ll see is mark spam+death nova on the point= brainless class

Chronophantasma condi Mesmer, and Condi warrior both easily outstrip necros in condition damage, application, and burst.

I wouldn’t bother pointing out facts to Supreme. He’s really just a troll on his anti-condition crusade. Apparently, he believes that debuffs shouldn’t exist and, by extension, Necros who are all about debuffing.

I don’t play a necro. But at the start of any match, i mark the necro so he can be killed quick before he gets any life force. I feel bad for capitalizing on it.

I agree with OP. Necros should start with SOME life force. It seems fair to me.

u can start the game with 5% life force.

just use your shout heal immediately when the 10s count down.

Even if give you 50000+ HP when begin you still dead like a Target Golem.
The problem of NEC is not about how many HP do you have. In HoT CC , Sustain , Cleaning … everything are out of control but NEC still use the old system.
Even if S2 S3 Nec Crazy season , Nec was also very easy to kill in high level.

Match begin
target Nec
put cc on him
put Immobilized on him
put damage on him
then you don’t have any chance to pass a button even if a one dodge.

if you survive with your movement or something keyboard skill that just mean your adversary don’t know what is a real push.

Muchacho.2390:

Well you are wrong on some of the things you say though.

First plague sending isnt the only “condition removel” trait necros have. There is also spiteful removel (which is kinda bad since you need an opponent with 25% health or less), shrouded removel (it is actually a good trait but sadly not good enough to make deathmagic viable for non mm builds) and of course necromatic corruption (which needs minions do to anything). And the best part is they all work in shroud.

Second consume conditions isnt the only condition removel skill. Well of power (which is not that amazing) and grim specter (tied to Lich) are also true condition removel skills (aka work without targets).

To be clear most of the things i listed wont do you much good in a match but you know… only because traits/skills arent viable for whatever reason it may be, it doesnt mean they dont exist.

Honestly making deathmagic more viable as a traitline for non mm builds would probably help alot. But for that soul comprehnsion needs a rework into something useful and probably some number changes to unholy sanctuary (the healing is pitiful).

Talk about traits or skills no one will ever use and the lich form is pointless.
If I play as a MM there’s the trait that grant me to senc condis to my minions but also it’s another condi transfer, not a condi clean (you transfer condi to your minions, but if you don’t have them it don’t work, as if you don’t hit the enemy).

I can tell you that guardians have the Spirit Bow to clean a Lot of conditions and heal AoE, then they had not to die against any condi build. But no one will ever use a spirit weapon on a guardian why they’re really terrible (expecially in PvP).

As Active or Viable skill/trait there’s only the Heal Consume Conditions that really clean conditions from you, and is one of the healing skill with the longer casting time ever, making it really easy to interrupt with all the CC in the game. There’s also the well, but basicly no one use it why there’s better skills.

Silv.9207:

sophiewhite.3149:

classes that cant wipe a entire 5man if left alone for a few seconds? all of them can. guess that means necro is balanced huh.calling necro barely good is about as dishonest as you can get. necro is amazing. i love playing it. did you just say necro doesnt have good condi clear? now i know your just straight up lieing. my necro has 3 full condi clears. 1 on staff and 2 in skills. super easy to use all of them and 1 of them has no cast time. you also said necro has no good condi. dude get out with that. necro is the best condi class to date.

In truth I was talking about when in Shroud and how easy is for every kind of class/build to burst us out of it… (just read better next time, please)

Out of the Shroud we have the staff, the signet and the heal (plus the PS by the trait if you use course). I don’t even talk about the well because no one use it for his high CD and slow effect (still if it’s good in team fight). in shroud you can have the PS trait but it’s not an active skill and can work whenever you crit, becoming useful or barely useful depending on the situation and your luck.

Also is true that the necro have only a single condi clean skill (Corruption Heal), that is the only way to clean conditions for a necro. If not with that skill, you Need to hit someone and if he dodge,block,blind,invulnerable you miss the condi transfer and your few chances to remove that pain from you. That is a condi clear mechanic that is specifically of the necromancer and frequently grant us some troubles. But also is the better way for a necromancer to obtain condition damage why our condi output without the RS5+4 is really low if compared to other classes.

I’m not the best necro ever but I know what I’m talking about.

my apologies for not reading well. i will concede the point that necros should start the match with some life force. it only seems fair.but to say necros arent viable (as many necros here claim) is just untrue.not that you have claimed that. but many have.

No experienced necro says they are not viable, just they are fed up of being the ragdoll of other classes.

Necro’s should have little less DS than the minimum required to enter Shroud.
This way the necro can easily produce just enough DS to catch the big hits at the start, while not being totally powerfull at the start.

I think everyone would agree on this.

Silv.9207:

Muchacho.2390:

Well you are wrong on some of the things you say though.

First plague sending isnt the only “condition removel” trait necros have. There is also spiteful removel (which is kinda bad since you need an opponent with 25% health or less), shrouded removel (it is actually a good trait but sadly not good enough to make deathmagic viable for non mm builds) and of course necromatic corruption (which needs minions do to anything). And the best part is they all work in shroud.

Second consume conditions isnt the only condition removel skill. Well of power (which is not that amazing) and grim specter (tied to Lich) are also true condition removel skills (aka work without targets).

To be clear most of the things i listed wont do you much good in a match but you know… only because traits/skills arent viable for whatever reason it may be, it doesnt mean they dont exist.

Honestly making deathmagic more viable as a traitline for non mm builds would probably help alot. But for that soul comprehnsion needs a rework into something useful and probably some number changes to unholy sanctuary (the healing is pitiful).

Talk about traits or skills no one will ever use and the lich form is pointless.
If I play as a MM there’s the trait that grant me to senc condis to my minions but also it’s another condi transfer, not a condi clean (you transfer condi to your minions, but if you don’t have them it don’t work, as if you don’t hit the enemy).

I can tell you that guardians have the Spirit Bow to clean a Lot of conditions and heal AoE, then they had not to die against any condi build. But no one will ever use a spirit weapon on a guardian why they’re really terrible (expecially in PvP).

As Active or Viable skill/trait there’s only the Heal Consume Conditions that really clean conditions from you, and is one of the healing skill with the longer casting time ever, making it really easy to interrupt with all the CC in the game. There’s also the well, but basicly no one use it why there’s better skills.

Well it is still wrong to say necros (or any profession) dont have certain things when they infact have them but they are not viable for some reason. I think we should be more precise about such things.

Muchacho.2390:

Silv.9207:

Muchacho.2390:

Well you are wrong on some of the things you say though.

First plague sending isnt the only “condition removel” trait necros have. There is also spiteful removel (which is kinda bad since you need an opponent with 25% health or less), shrouded removel (it is actually a good trait but sadly not good enough to make deathmagic viable for non mm builds) and of course necromatic corruption (which needs minions do to anything). And the best part is they all work in shroud.

Second consume conditions isnt the only condition removel skill. Well of power (which is not that amazing) and grim specter (tied to Lich) are also true condition removel skills (aka work without targets).

To be clear most of the things i listed wont do you much good in a match but you know… only because traits/skills arent viable for whatever reason it may be, it doesnt mean they dont exist.

Honestly making deathmagic more viable as a traitline for non mm builds would probably help alot. But for that soul comprehnsion needs a rework into something useful and probably some number changes to unholy sanctuary (the healing is pitiful).

Talk about traits or skills no one will ever use and the lich form is pointless.
If I play as a MM there’s the trait that grant me to senc condis to my minions but also it’s another condi transfer, not a condi clean (you transfer condi to your minions, but if you don’t have them it don’t work, as if you don’t hit the enemy).

I can tell you that guardians have the Spirit Bow to clean a Lot of conditions and heal AoE, then they had not to die against any condi build. But no one will ever use a spirit weapon on a guardian why they’re really terrible (expecially in PvP).

As Active or Viable skill/trait there’s only the Heal Consume Conditions that really clean conditions from you, and is one of the healing skill with the longer casting time ever, making it really easy to interrupt with all the CC in the game. There’s also the well, but basicly no one use it why there’s better skills.

Well it is still wrong to say necros (or any profession) dont have certain things when they infact have them but they are not viable for some reason. I think we should be more precise about such things.

balancing around nonviable builds is also wrong.

Muchacho.2390:

Silv.9207:

Muchacho.2390:

Well you are wrong on some of the things you say though.

First plague sending isnt the only “condition removel” trait necros have. There is also spiteful removel (which is kinda bad since you need an opponent with 25% health or less), shrouded removel (it is actually a good trait but sadly not good enough to make deathmagic viable for non mm builds) and of course necromatic corruption (which needs minions do to anything). And the best part is they all work in shroud.

Second consume conditions isnt the only condition removel skill. Well of power (which is not that amazing) and grim specter (tied to Lich) are also true condition removel skills (aka work without targets).

To be clear most of the things i listed wont do you much good in a match but you know… only because traits/skills arent viable for whatever reason it may be, it doesnt mean they dont exist.

Honestly making deathmagic more viable as a traitline for non mm builds would probably help alot. But for that soul comprehnsion needs a rework into something useful and probably some number changes to unholy sanctuary (the healing is pitiful).

Talk about traits or skills no one will ever use and the lich form is pointless.
If I play as a MM there’s the trait that grant me to senc condis to my minions but also it’s another condi transfer, not a condi clean (you transfer condi to your minions, but if you don’t have them it don’t work, as if you don’t hit the enemy).

I can tell you that guardians have the Spirit Bow to clean a Lot of conditions and heal AoE, then they had not to die against any condi build. But no one will ever use a spirit weapon on a guardian why they’re really terrible (expecially in PvP).

As Active or Viable skill/trait there’s only the Heal Consume Conditions that really clean conditions from you, and is one of the healing skill with the longer casting time ever, making it really easy to interrupt with all the CC in the game. There’s also the well, but basicly no one use it why there’s better skills.

Well it is still wrong to say necros (or any profession) dont have certain things when they infact have them but they are not viable for some reason. I think we should be more precise about such things.

I can be more precise and I’ll really like to be able to use some of the traits and skills you wrote about, but if ANet don’t make a serious rework on that skills or traits there’s not a single way to use them or chose them instead of any other skill/trait/traitline.

We are viable but still at the bottom of the barrel (with the ele). A Pro necro can do good things and I can be useful for my team as a necro, but if the team is bad I’m not able at all to help and I become a problem instead of a resource. That’s the problem of the necromancer.
Make some traits/skills more viable would for shure be a good thing to have more builds and make the necromancer stronger, but as they’re now we can’t balance our profession around bad traits/skills that no one use.

Silv.9207:

A Pro necro can do good things and I can be useful for my team as a necro, but if the team is bad I’m not able at all to help and I become a problem instead of a resource. That’s the problem of the necromancer.

What you describe is not a “problem of the necromancer” or a class design problem. It is a symptom of an issue with much deeper roots: lack of a proper PvP tutorial, specifically, non-existent voice of authority that accurately describes what class roles and identities are within the PvP medium.

Class descriptions on the Gw2 site are poetic at best, with severe flaws and it has been proven multiple times that they are not rules enforced as a foundation for balance. Even if some fundamental descriptions were set as rules, it still would not overcome the logistics of having to address three game modes at the same time. Also, HOT and post-HOT balance chaotically distorting class roles and identities certainly did not help.

Om Im.7863:

Silv.9207:

A Pro necro can do good things and I can be useful for my team as a necro, but if the team is bad I’m not able at all to help and I become a problem instead of a resource. That’s the problem of the necromancer.

What you describe is not a “problem of the necromancer” or a class design problem. It is a symptom of an issue with much deeper roots: lack of a proper PvP tutorial, specifically, non-existent voice of authority that accurately describes what class roles and identities are within the PvP medium.

Class descriptions on the Gw2 site are poetic at best(snip).

Lmao check the guard discription.. spirit weapons the say…..
But yeah ive found some necros hard to fight and some that even if i wear white gear i could beat them, theres a huge gap of understanding, how to create life force, when to use DS, reaper form etc, some just enter in those form like 2-3 seconds after the fight.

Also yeah HoT borked up alot fo thing that were already bad in this game.

While it is true necros getting hard focused in teamfights is a thing, and can be difficult to survive if there are class that can port, like thief or Rev. It’s the fact that a necro that knows what they’re doing can decide teamfights. They’re a force that shouldn’t go unchecked in those fights which is why they’re targeted first. It’s also the fact they lack the survivability of a soldier type, aka blocks, evades, that makes them targeted first as well. The way to surviving for a necro though is through kiting and soft ccs. This is why things like Flesh Worm is used to give quick ports to escape dire situations, which do require setup. I’ve played necro off and on, if hard focus is a problem I’ve found found spectral walk can be handy if you want a more pre-emptive plan to being focused, over something like wurm.

Though on the topic of LF at the start of the match I think Necro should start with just enough LF to get them into shroud.

Talking about the “LF problem”, start with enough LF to enter the shroud is just a cookie to make us happier but don’t change our problem.
To change it a little, the necromancer would start Always with 33% (or more) LF when the match start And when he die, making him able to use his LF as a “meat shield” (as it is describet more and more times by devs) and don’t forcing them to don’t even go in shroud to be able to survive a little more when they start respown.
That can be a good point to start.