Guild Wars 2

At the moment the possibility to heal from shoutwarriors, engis, elementalists, etc. are inefficacious for the necromancer when he is in deathshroud.
I don’t think any class should have a disadvantage to make use of his special ability.
Further, I think necromancer is hard enough to play ,especally for the team which has to take care of the necromancer a lot.

Therefore, I suggest that the healthpool of the necromancer should be affected by waterfields / shouts etc. even when he’s in deathshroud.
Sorry for the weird english. I hope it’s understandable, though.

/discuss

Self healing first like siphons,regen and parasitic contagion first but since they just fixed some traits in downstate that happening has been pushed back by 2 years,specilisation coming up even farther. We need reflect as well… DS was the worst thing to happen to necro.

I mean, I see the logic. But don’t you think it would be a bit OP in a coordinated team? At the moment, when a player gets focused, he has to burn through long CD to be able to survive and get his team to help him. The change you suggest would mean that even if you land the most coordinated burst on the necro, all he has to do is pop DS and let the elementalist heal him. I know that necro is now one of the first targets in a team fight (low disengage abilities, high offense pressure), but the fix you propose seems extreme, in higher tiers at least.

On the other hand, it pains me a bit to see all these good heals wasted on a necromancer. I suppose in soloq, it wouldn’t be much of a problem.

Sorel.4870:

I mean, I see the logic. But don’t you think it would be a bit OP in a coordinated team? At the moment, when a player gets focused, he has to burn through long CD to be able to survive and get his team to help him. The change you suggest would mean that even if you land the most coordinated burst on the necro, all he has to do is pop DS and let the elementalist heal him. I know that necro is now one of the first targets in a team fight (low disengage abilities, high offense pressure), but the fix you propose seems extreme, in higher tiers at least.

On the other hand, it pains me a bit to see all these good heals wasted on a necromancer. I suppose in soloq, it wouldn’t be much of a problem.

It’s either good in PVP or it’s not. PVE and wvw is another story, but by your own argument (coordination should be rewarded), the elementalist in your situation is coordinating to heal his teammate who was focused, and that should be able to happen, right?

Roe.3679:

It’s either good in PVP or it’s not. PVE and wvw is another story, but by your own argument (coordination should be rewarded), the elementalist in your situation is coordinating to heal his teammate who was focused, and that should be able to happen, right?

Yes! But for example, a mesmer getting focused will have to blow distortion to get the heal. A DS permissive to healing feels like a free get out of jail card every time it’s off CD, which is often. I’m not sure though, and I’m certain that at most levels of play there would be no major consequences so hey, maybe you’re right.

Sorel.4870:

Roe.3679:

It’s either good in PVP or it’s not. PVE and wvw is another story, but by your own argument (coordination should be rewarded), the elementalist in your situation is coordinating to heal his teammate who was focused, and that should be able to happen, right?

Yes! But for example, a mesmer getting focused will have to blow distortion to get the heal. A DS permissive to healing feels like a free get out of jail card every time it’s off CD, which is often. I’m not sure though, and I’m certain that at most levels of play there would be no major consequences so hey, maybe you’re right.

DS was the worst thing to happen to necro. Who punishes skilled play,your own traits,skills and boons?

They could start by making the regeneration boon actually work in deathshroud, as a baby step towards allowing team healing in death shroud.

Coming from a Necro. I can assure you that this would be OP as hell. While it would be wonderful at the same time though. I do not think regen would be bad though. Being able to accept regen boon while in DS would be a good start. Also (I know no one runs it in PvP) but the necro heals that he puts off in DS or from Siphon (minimal) should heal the Necro. Minion mancers/ bunker wells would then have a fighting chance at being viable. 2 builds that are completely useless and always will be if they don’t get some help in that area. It’s not passive healing, you still must attack to get it.

Healing primary HP while in DS?
Use Unholy Sanctuary.
Problem solved.

Ya, only if you are a full on bunker Unholy Sancuray helps. That doesn’t help any other build though. Still its only 290 a tick if you have a Clerics ammy on. that is pretty low compared to other ‘bunker’ passives with only a Cele ammy on. And that ONLY gives it to you in DS. As a ‘bunker’ your Life Force gain is minimal compared to the rest; to even be able to go into DS and use it.

He is talking about everyone being allowed healing. Which would be to strong, but regen isn’t a horrible idea.

Tao.5096:

Healing primary HP while in DS?
Use Unholy Sanctuary.
Problem solved.

Nobody uses it because the healing is too small without healing power and with healing power dmg drops to zero. Also traiting for it heavily sacrifices offensive potential.
So it is either offenisve build with Unholy Sanc and sacrificing either dmg from spite or Soul Reaping -> useless necro or defensive build with no pressure, abyssmal support and utility -> useless necro.

There were lots of discussion about this on the necromancer forum. The general consensus seemed to be: allow siphons and maybe regen. See how it goes from there.

Another thing that should be kept in mind: current somewhat working sustain builds for necro (spectral builds like 26006 soldier with SW and SA) are hard to kill but have no worthwhile contribution to fights, atleast not in the sense that other bruserish builds are. So if you push defensive capabilities by allowing some healing in DS and necro becoming harder to kill, will it actually be used in a competetive environment? Or will it simply be a nuisance that is hard to kill but can’t stand on point(lack of stab or CC negating effects like block, invul, vigor) and doesn’t contribute in any meaningful way, like a PU mes does.

I’m fine with the heal BUTTON being blocked out. Siphons, regen, ally heals and so on being blocked is questionable design and I loathe it… So bad…

Well of Blood’s ticks, Sig of Vamp’s passives, both on hit and if you are hit, and Blood Fiend’s life steal, along with siphons should work. Why use Well of Blood if I’m being spiked, only to need Death Shroud while its still pulsing, I waste some of my heal.

Honestly I hate being locked out of utilities more than anything. I want better UI to track my utility cd’s, especially in wvw.

Either way healing inside DS is not OP, it’s not like we have much access to healing or stability or vigor, and our condi clears on a power spec are on fairly sizable cd’s (one being our heal).

Our healing skills are atrocious to begin with, wtb warrior signet treatment or at least a buff to signet of vampirism so at least you heal better than healing signet when you are getting trained.

what’s the effective HP of a necro w/ ds? thats a lot of health i think.

Jaxom.7310:

what’s the effective HP of a necro w/ ds? thats a lot of health i think.

The dependacy on DS is toxic,you give up what you speced for a disguised meat bag. They tried to make it friendly to other specs and look as us now,the new traits,heals,necro’s state… Don’t forget we have to stack LF too which is why you never make the first encounter,if duels were a mode you wouldn’t play necro,necros can’t really create a new spec our tools are broken.

I will gladly shout:“Get DS off necro !!!” at their faces if I could. Not to be disrespectful but time alone if not it’s performance should have made them realize it.

Death shroud should continue to provide signet passives, healing, regen, siphon traits and should continue to allow the use of utilities.

To compensate they should re-balance necro accordingly. If it needs nerfs with those changes then go ahead and do it. Its not like anet are against having classes so good you can run 2/3 of them and still be very strong. Look at engineers and eles, or warriors previously.

All healing should function in DS. It is necros defensive mechanic, do other classes defensive mechanics prevent healing? No, so Ds shouldn’t prevent it either. Sorel unknowingly pointed it out perfectly. When your focusing other classes they pop defensive cooldowns and can then be healed by their teammates. Necros currently can’t do this because thier defensive mechanic completely shuts out all healing. DS isn’t as good of a defensive mechanic as any other classes defensive mechanics against multiple opponents, and necros have the worst sustain in 1vs1 as well, so this, which in effect gives necros more sustain, wouldn’t be op.

I’m not sure about all healing going through Deathshroud. I’m not saying it would be too strong, but it might be, and that would be a huge change to make at once.

However, I do think that all healing the Necromancer gives themselves should go through Deathshroud, including regen. It is one thing for allied help to be not as effective, it is another for a profession to have mechanics that actively work against each other. If this means that certain healing traits need to be reworked (Transfusion shouldn’t heal the Necromancer still, even with this change) than that can be done. But at this point Blood Magic will always be held back because nearly the entire tree is turned off by entering Death Shroud.

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Then let’s remove healing while any other profession uses any defensive mechanic, because Death Shroud and healing is all we have. No more healing in stealth, while dodging/evading, blocking, or any other kind of defensive skill. Except that is a stupid idea, just like Necromancers having an entire trait tree that is made worthless by their profession mechanic is absolutely stupid.

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

DS being a skill mechanic instead of a single long cool-down skill is what makes it so precarious in regards to balancing because it can be brought into play far more often. Using Last Gasp before entering DS to take focus fire for instance can result in a net gain in Life Force. That could be followed up by Spec Armor to repeat it. Using either in Conjuction with Warhorn 4, etc. And if teammates (who we can all acknowledge have greater access to healing output) are healing a Necro behind DS while using these skills, CCing the Necro ceases to matter and you potentially end up with the most resilient punching in the history of the game, which according to you is not what you want, which is why I find it curious that you think this is the solution to your Necro problems.

hackks.3687:

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

DS being a skill mechanic instead of a single long cool-down skill means is what makes it so precarious in regards to balancing because it can be brought into play far more often. Using Last Gasp before entering DS to take focus fire for instance can result in a net gain in Life Force. That could be followed up by Spec Armor to repeat it. Using either in Conjuction with Warhorn 4, etc. And if teammates (who we can all acknowledge have greater access to healing output) are healing a Necro behind DS while using these skills, CCing the Necro ceases to matter and you potentially end up with the most resilient punching in the history of the game, which according to you is not what you want, which is why I find it curious that you think this is the solution to your Necro problems.

Not a solution it’s a fix ,a class mechanic shouldn’t counter it’s class, I never said it would solve our problems and I only want self healing and regen to work in DS so far not all because necro is like a pve boss. They would need to change that first then the team sustain/support and LF gain can be fixed and improved. They can start by making SoV and US more team friendly removal of ICD and signets working in DS,heals based on damage received, WoP pulsing stability and ofc the infamous FitG receives proper stacks.

We have a long list of what necro needs but fixes>improvement so we don’t balance around broken system.

Spectral Armor gives 8% LF per hit, with an ICD of 1s. So no, you will never gain LF unless your opponents hit you for less than 4% of your LF per second (but they have to be hitting you every second), since you already lose 4% per second.

Something tells me you spend a lot of time in poor positions that get you into trouble where you need things like pulsing stacks of stability granted on everything to keep you alive. In large part you’re asking for things that other classes don’t get – i.e. ways to circumvent their designed weaknesses. Maybe spend less time trying to drive your Square Necro through round holes and just take it for what it is. Play it to it’s strengths and avoid exposing it’s weaknesses. GL

Necromancer’s designed weakness is low mobility and low access to boons, according to the devs themselves. No stability is not a designed weakness, awful synergy is not a designed weakness.

hackks.3687:

Something tells me you spend a lot of time in poor positions that get you into trouble where you need things like pulsing stacks of stability granted on everything to keep you alive. In large part you’re asking for things that other classes don’t get – i.e. ways to circumvent their designed weaknesses. Maybe spend less time trying to drive your Square Necro through round holes and just take it for what it is. Play it to it’s strengths and avoid exposing it’s weaknesses. GL

Sure…

We are all delusional, necro start up LF,MM bugs,UP siphon,UP FitG,necro’s selfishness every bad thing is myth and the class competes fine those downstate traits fix were unnecessary buffs. If you have no business here or what is presented in the thread bothers you ,don’t bother being part of it. You learn positioning day 1 of necro and I had enough days. Tell and show us of your prowess like we care about it instead of the class.

Just get off the thread your presence is anti-productive.

hackks.3687:

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Zenith.7301:

hackks.3687:

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

They are not true invulnerabilities. Endure Pain just stops all physical damage not new application of conditions or CC. Berserker Stance only stops new applications of conditions not psychical damage or CC.

Invulnerable implies you can neither be damaged, cced, or have conditions applied. So he is correct. Examples of invulnerabilities, since you are having a hard time reading the skills: Distortion on Mesmer. Elixir S on Engineer. Mist Form on Elementalist.

Zenith.7301:

hackks.3687:

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Vanthian.9267:

They are not true invulnerabilities. Endure Pain just stops all physical damage not new application of conditions or CC. Berserker Stance only stops new applications of conditions not psychical damage or CC.

Invulnerable implies you can neither be damaged, cced, or have conditions applied. So he is correct. Examples of invulnerabilities, since you are having a hard time reading the skills: Distortion on Mesmer. Elixir S on Engineer. Mist Form on Elementalist.

And neither is Death Shroud. Hell, increase the cooldown for Death Shroud to 20 seconds, but allow SOME healing to go through, somehow. Or at least make heals regenerate Life Force while in DS…

It’s true that necros have some of the craziest burst damage in the game but they are so easy to focus endlessly. The only ways of escaping being trained is an easily killable minion and Spectral Walk which you can track by looking at the green trail left behind… We have only one reliable condition clear which is our healing ability, making us extremely weak to immobilize as well. I mean, I don’t think necros are in a terrible state, quite simply because the DPS we bring is pretty much unmatched, but now most good teams/players know how to avoid that damage, so heh.

The healing in Unholy Sanctuary should see some buff. And should be the only way for a necro to get heal while in DS.

As for other source of healing out side of Unholy Sanctuary should heal the DS-bar/LF while he is DS. The percentage of healing should be the same maths that use to convert your HP to LF.

Vanthian.9267:

Zenith.7301:

hackks.3687:

Sagat.3285:

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Are you one of those people that believe zerk stance and endure pain shouldn’t let you cap point? Invulnerable negates all damage,DS has a limit of how much juice the meat can give before you break the fragile bones and is a class mechanic/resource it’s different from Distortion or Mist Form. Using those skills doesn’t prevent any already applied healing or healing traits to work, true invulnerabilty doesn’t get it but stuff like stealth,stances,blocks does. Do I also need to mention you can CC DS??

At least try to make sense. If the devs are thinking like you it’s just going to go downhill faster.

No, I’m one of those people who understands that Zerker stance and Endure Pain aren’t invulnerabilities…

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

They are not true invulnerabilities. Endure Pain just stops all physical damage not new application of conditions or CC. Berserker Stance only stops new applications of conditions not psychical damage or CC.

Invulnerable implies you can neither be damaged, cced, or have conditions applied. So he is correct. Examples of invulnerabilities, since you are having a hard time reading the skills: Distortion on Mesmer. Elixir S on Engineer. Mist Form on Elementalist.

Except conditions do damage you through distortion, and you have no clue what you’re talking about.

For example, go to the Grenth temple event and try to distortion/blurred frenzy the falling crystals the priest of Grenth summons. You’ll still be one shot.

Don’t move the goalposts, berserker stance makes you invulnerable to condition damage while it’s active and endure pain makes you immune to physical damage while it’s active.

Invulnerable does not have to mean immune to CC’s. That’s your convenient definition used as apologia for OP stances.

It’s not like the class that in the pvp manifesto was declared as intended to be weak to conditions and needing help from allies to remove them suddenly has become the best class at countering conditions alongside the elementalist.

Zenith.7301:

Except conditions do damage you through distortion, and you have no clue what you’re talking about.

For example, go to the Grenth temple event and try to distortion/blurred frenzy the falling crystals the priest of Grenth summons. You’ll still be one shot.

Don’t move the goalposts, berserker stance makes you invulnerable to condition damage while it’s active and endure pain makes you immune to physical damage while it’s active.

Invulnerable does not have to mean immune to CC’s. That’s your convenient definition used as apologia for OP stances.

It’s not like the class that in the pvp manifesto was declared as intended to be weak to conditions and needing help from allies to remove them suddenly has become the best class at countering conditions alongside the elementalist.

No one cares about PvE in PvP forum.
Give now an example to PvP CC that work on Invulnerable player status.

If you want PvE examples: green hound thingies in silverwastes (pacman) can 1 shot necro through full life force. So tank, much health. Wow.

@Argument about effective health with DS: dodge+invul = ~3-4 seconds of effective health beeing
9^999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
plus cc immunity(for the most part).

Also PvP CC that works on “invul”: I am pretty sure shocking aura punches you out of blurred frenzy/pistol whip. But been a while since i played that/encountered that.
In addition you can argue about blocks and unblockeable CC.

hackks.3687:

Healing behind DS is the same concept as healing while Invulnerable. There’s little to no counter play and that’s why it was removed from other classes ages ago like Ele and Engi healing while in Mist form and Elixir S. It’s not going to happen.

Well to counter your argument, Ele & Engi in mist form and elixir s can still be healed by allies :P. But I agree it’d be a bit overpowered seeing as how it’s an entirely different health bar and lasts longer than invulns.

In regards to invulns, nobody is really taking into consideration that an invuln can eat unlimited amounts of damage, whereas deathshroud cannot. So stop comparing deathshroud to invulnerabilities like mist form.

No one said DS was an invuln. The statement was that healing while in DS where the second health pool can shield the primary health pool is akin to the same functionality as healing while Invuln because there is no way to counter the primary health pool regenerating while the LF health pool is active.

And since I’m here, let’s clarify some of the mechanics: Immunity is not the same as an Invulnerable. Immunity only cancels the effects of a single skill effect i.e. Conditions, Crowd Control, Direct Damage. Invulnerability makes the players Invulnerable to all skill effects/mechanics not applied prior to the skill activation.

hackks.3687:

No one said DS was an invuln. The statement was that healing while in DS where the second health pool can shield the primary health pool is akin to the same functionality as healing while Invuln because there is no way to counter the primary health pool regenerating while the LF health pool is active.

And since I’m here, let’s clarify some of the mechanics: Immunity is not the same as an Invulnerable. Immunity only cancels the effects of a single skill effect i.e. Conditions, Crowd Control, Direct Damage. Invulnerability makes the players Invulnerable to all skill effects/mechanics not applied prior to the skill activation.

Exactly, my point was that people can still receive heals from allies while invulnerable. You brought up that healing while invulnerable got removed for Engi & Ele however the mechanic OP is addressing still exists for other classes.

KarinaCO.6948:

hackks.3687:

No one said DS was an invuln. The statement was that healing while in DS where the second health pool can shield the primary health pool is akin to the same functionality as healing while Invuln because there is no way to counter the primary health pool regenerating while the LF health pool is active.

And since I’m here, let’s clarify some of the mechanics: Immunity is not the same as an Invulnerable. Immunity only cancels the effects of a single skill effect i.e. Conditions, Crowd Control, Direct Damage. Invulnerability makes the players Invulnerable to all skill effects/mechanics not applied prior to the skill activation.

Exactly, my point was that people can still receive heals from allies while invulnerable. You brought up that healing while invulnerable got removed for Engi & Ele however the mechanic OP is addressing still exists for other classes.

I see what you’re saying but like you mentioned, DS is far more active a resource than a 45-60 sec CD Invuln utility, no? Between the effective use of having a whole second HP pool, the short CD on activating DS, the ability to sustain LF while in DS on top of the sheer massive scale of the HP pool seems to make the two somewhat incomparable IMO as those are not attributes that extend to getting some team heals while Invuln.

hackks.3687:

No one said DS was an invuln. The statement was that healing while in DS where the second health pool can shield the primary health pool is akin to the same functionality as healing while Invuln because there is no way to

Except you 100% can counter it. All of our self-traited healing, which is what we are asking for, comes in the form of siphoning, regeneration, and procs like parasitic bond.

1. Poison. Poison will lower our healing, and there is no condition removal when already in DS.

2. Make sure we can’t attack. We have no stability or stun breaks while in DS, meaning any CC we can’t avoid with our 2 dodges is guaranteed to hit us, and will stop us from attacking. Also blinds, LoS’ing, avoiding our skills like you normally would all lowers our siphoning

3. Mist form still allows the self-healing Elementalist has already applied , so that argument is just straight BS.

4. While in DS we have massively reduced ability to actually proc siphons. It isn’t like we are going to be healing for 1k HP/s (which is what actual regen builds will do), we’ll be getting at best 100HP/s.

5. And finally, if this proves to be too good, just nerf our healing. The point of this isn’t to make us OP, it is to remove the absolutely stupid fact that our main source of defense flat out removes a large portion of our traiting.

As I’ve always said, and Bhawb is getting at, fix the games design issues first, then balance around proper design. Don’t ignore design because of a false sense of balance.

ronpierce.2760:

As I’ve always said, and Bhawb is getting at, fix the games design issues first, then balance around proper design. Don’t ignore design because of a false sense of balance.

it’s a nice suggestion, but I don’t think anet, let alone most game developers are willing to do that. So let’s be realistic instead of asking for a design overhaul.

NeXeD.3042:

ronpierce.2760:

As I’ve always said, and Bhawb is getting at, fix the games design issues first, then balance around proper design. Don’t ignore design because of a false sense of balance.

it’s a nice suggestion, but I don’t think anet, let alone most game developers are willing to do that. So let’s be realistic instead of asking for a design overhaul.

It’s not a large leap, really. It’s well known that siphons are pretty kitten weak. Regen should work for us anyways. Keep the heal locked (obviously) and just TEST at least internally how it feels. I’m willing to bet just about anything that it won’t make a huge difference, but half our traits won’t feel counter to our class core mechanics. Its not a sweeping design change, these are fairly simple switches on their part… Heal in DS? (Yes)/No. Keep the Heal button locked. Test potency. Too high? Reduce healing of siphons from 50 (lol) to 42. Try again. It’s really not that hard of a concept, really.

Yeah it seems like we’ve just got plain concern trolls who’d just want the necro to rot in irrelevance since they’d rather notdeal/adapt to another viable class.

arena net needs a public test server or something…..they make an unbelievable amount of mistakes ….

dominik.9721:

At the moment the possibility to heal from shoutwarriors, engis, elementalists, etc. are inefficacious for the necromancer when he is in deathshroud.
I don’t think any class should have a disadvantage to make use of his special ability.
Further, I think necromancer is hard enough to play ,especally for the team which has to take care of the necromancer a lot.

Therefore, I suggest that the healthpool of the necromancer should be affected by waterfields / shouts etc. even when he’s in deathshroud.
Sorry for the weird english. I hope it’s understandable, though.

/discuss

I agree. However, I think this can only be a start. While necros are in desperate need of buffs (in particular condition necros), as far as survivability goes, I would much rather prefer having more access to soft cc. Say traits like: ‘immobilze nearby foes for ? seconds when falling below ?% health’, ‘blind/weaken your foe when receiving a critical hit (? seconds cooldown)’ or ‘chill/blind nearby foes when entering/leaving deathshroud’.

Getting more heals will let you stay alive longer, but will not actually make you more useful or make opponents focus fire you less. People would be more reluctant to all jump at every necro they see if this meant that they stood a high chance of being tied up with their capabilities reduced.

There is one skill that makes Necro’s tank class mechanic utterly worthless; Moa. Not something that the other invulnerabilities or evasions have to deal with.

When someone pops mist form, or the like they can be perfectly assured that they will take no extra damage (save from existing conditions). Necro’s don’t get that luxury. Moa completely shuts down their primary defense mechanic (along with several other things like Minions for siphon or their spiker of Lich).

Which is another thing regarding DS vs invulnerable skills. You can be spiked or disabled. Which makes DS more of a bandaid than a real defense mechanic.

As for the healing whilst in DS?
I feel that the application should not apply to one’s main pool of health. (Making Unholy Sanc still unique)
However, I do feel that boons should have the full effect as their condition counterpart, but only affecting the LF bar whilst active. The regen boon would likely at most just stave off the natural LF degeneration anyways.

Other healing sources should affect LF as well. This encourages teams to help support a necro when they need or desire it, especially for defensive options.
Would it be OP?
Hardly, I think more people would be concerned with a team healing with a Lich form being healed and supported, than a necro in deathshroud.

Since when can an ele mist form when in moa form……