Nothing in PvP "Feels" Impactful

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

What I mean by this is that it seems like there is an overabundance of…everything in the game right now.

There are a ton of boon applications, ton of condi applications, ton of AoEs, etc. Nothing feels special anymore. I corrupt boons, they are applied again. I corrupt, applied again. Points are filled to the point of blindness with AoEs and skill graphics.

I remember when the game first started and some of the boons/condis seemed rare. Blind, aegis, stability, etc. Now during fights I constantly see them. None stop.

I can’t help but feel like this is one of the reasons PvP spectating never really took off. There is so much stuff being constantly thrown at the screen that can be incredibly hard for spectators to tell what the heck is going on, what the major game changing plays were, etc.

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Posted by: HeadCrowned.6834

HeadCrowned.6834

Totally agreed. There indeed is an overabundance of everything. Less is more should be the policy now, but I highly doubt that from what I have seen so far from the expansion.

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Posted by: witcher.3197

witcher.3197

This, so much this. Remember when we had to bait stunbreakers before we used bigger CCs? Now everyone has a million ways to deal with anything and a million ways to apply stuff.

There are no more “big plays”, any strategical thinking was killed off with HoT. It’s just skill spam.

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Posted by: NeXeD.3042

NeXeD.3042

agreed completely skill spam there is no difference between legendary players and bronzies…… =/

Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA

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Posted by: duster.7013

duster.7013

It’s not going to “feel” impactful when you’re new to pvp. If you wanna cast 4 spells and “feel” pro then you can play dota or league. We’re not lowering our skill cieling for you.

Seriously. You have four spells if your team is remotly competant and you’re trapped in the match for an hour. Go play 1k hours in dota only playing support, then come back here and tell me you want “less, more impactful spells.”

(edited by duster.7013)

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

Its a tough issue to solve. Sadly I can only see skill splitting working here. I feel like if they tone everything down…well the PvErs and WvWers would be kittened.

My personal philosophy is that no one class can put out more than 2 conditions and 2 boons. I feel like it would make things a lot more interesting and make classes feel more impactful.

Right now I’m playing revenant where I’m spamming boons and #1. Its really…sad.

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Posted by: Lord Velar.1509

Lord Velar.1509

I agree with everyone as I play condi thief and ill be honest, when I play against a team that doesn’t run anti condi traits, I feel bad cause they never stand a chance, ive literally broken 500k+ damage with 19 kills (should’ve been 20 but the finisher didn’t go through before the match closed)

I went back to power thief and ran into a condi guard, who seemed to have enough boons to make Deified jealous, I literally wasn’t able to even +1 him just cause of all the craziness going on caused by him and him alone

When I’m on my necros before heading mid after respawning to rejoin the fight ill sit there and scope things out for a few seconds….half the time I space out cause I focus too hard trying to identify who is who and what is what

However, its not an easy issue to fix because doing so would ruin a few builds for certain professions, necros more than any but Mesmer and engi would be following close behind

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

This, so much this. Remember when we had to bait stunbreakers before we used bigger CCs? Now everyone has a million ways to deal with anything and a million ways to apply stuff.

There are no more “big plays”, any strategical thinking was killed off with HoT. It’s just skill spam.

This is why the game failed. MOBA’s success is based on big plays and how cool they are to do and watch.. GW2 used to kind of have this but has moved in the other direction where it is just spam with no individual things really mattering at all

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

It’s not going to “feel” impactful when you’re new to pvp. If you wanna cast 4 spells and “feel” pro then you can play dota or league. We’re not lowering our skill cieling for you.

Seriously. You have four spells if your team is remotly competant and you’re trapped in the match for an hour. Go play 1k hours in dota only playing support, then come back here and tell me you want “less, more impactful spells.”

4 spells per many many many different heros plus hundreds of items. That are balanced every 2 weeks are shorter if something is completely broken.

Then there’s mid game tactics with the items and play style to counter on the fly while your enemies are doing the same.

If you are going to bash dota or lol at least make sure to properly bash it. There is a reason those two are dominate eSports while GW2 was kicked out. Hell even the baby Smite picks up more renown then GW2 by far.

But #/shrug the lies some GW2 PvP players tell themselves to sleep better at night. Dota and LoL has a skill ceiling soo much higher then GW2 that GW2 thinks god it self takes dumps on it. Smite even does the same.

I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys

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Posted by: Sorem.9157

Sorem.9157

This really is an issue.

And i have no idea on how to fix it. The amount of rework that would take is absurd. Practically redo all the elite specs and even some of the basic ones.

MIGHTY SOREM STRIKES AGAIN!!!!

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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

Skills and classes completely balanced different between sPvP/WvW and PvE.

That’s pretty much it right there.

I maybe a troll with class.
But at least I admit it!
PoF guys get ready for PvE joys

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Posted by: gw niko.1049

gw niko.1049

I totally agree with this. Good post.

Do you also think that anet is kind of uncreativ with the trait-design.
That to many of the traits are just “filling material” but basically have no use or are
simply to weak to be taken anyways and most of them are also just number-juggling instead of real gamestyle changing traits.
I think this is one of the minor problems too and have made a post for that.
I´m writeing about that and have made some new own mes-traits as inspiration.
Some of them are not bad and maybe could be even added to the game and
you probably can also do some kind of those with every other class too.
Traits that are actually impacting your playstyle and not just some 10% dmg increase.
Check it out if you want: https://tinyurl.com/GW2MesTraits

REACT ANET. Tell us what you are thinking about the current state of pvp.
If you think its just fine and you continue to do it this way, I won´t bother anymore.
If you see the problems and are planing to make huge critically changes with this game, at least in the long run, we at least know you even noticed the problem.

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

I think DH is such a good example of how poorly balance was considered. Don’t get me wrong, its a fun class. I have nothing against it. But mechanically speaking, it is one of the strongest PvP classes in the game. It is a perfect example of this issue. The AoE capabilities, the boon application, condi cleanses, etc. I mean the main “counter” to it is outlasting it…

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Posted by: duster.7013

duster.7013

But #/shrug the lies some GW2 PvP players tell themselves to sleep better at night. Dota and LoL has a skill ceiling soo much higher then GW2 that GW2 thinks god it self takes dumps on it. Smite even does the same.

I have thousands of hours in both dota and league. The games are more popular because they are more casual. There’s a reason cs is more popular than xonotic/cpma, and minecraft is more popular than starcraft 2. Also trying to use the “it’s good because it’s popular” is a tell as to how new you are to gaming arguments.

Again, go play dota soloq support only for 1 thousand hours and come back here and tell me we should have less spells so that we have to rely more on allies. Until you do that your balance input is worthless. I don’t know a nice way of conveying this because i’ve already told you this.

That experience is worth a lot, becuase you get to see 2k players attacking mid lane creeps for two smokes in a row.

@defied
Guardian is a good baseline, its war who’s awful. War lost the DH matchup back in season five and they’ve been nerfed harder than guard for the last few patches.

(edited by duster.7013)

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Posted by: Zoltreez.6435

Zoltreez.6435

Too much boon and condi spam……

everyone is runing with stacked to the booth with every single existing Boon onthem and they can keep them up Permanently no matter how many times you removed them…..

-Stellaris
-Total War: Warhammer
-Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

This really is an issue.

And i have no idea on how to fix it. The amount of rework that would take is absurd. Practically redo all the elite specs and even some of the basic ones.

I feel like the simplest thing to try would be to simply increase the weapon CDs and ICDs of most traits then see how it feels, then adjust damage if things feel too sluggish. It would make each skill more important because missing it would be more punishing. Higher ICDs would also mean that you only have to account for certain traits maybe once or twice a fight instead of what feels like every few seconds.

This will probably require splitting the skills, but I feel like they would be more willing to adjust CDs because most of the skills will have the same functionality.

Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

People want to raise the skill floor when I see sooo many Guards lose to classes like Condi necro in 1v1… and I’m on their team because Matchmaking couldn’t find more Plat players so they retort to Gold T1… but it’s ok because our team have 59 MMR points higher and are destined to win… -25 to lose.

Sure.. raise the skill floor. Make it incredible hard for people to play Guard. Make it Season 2 again. I at least never saw many Guardians in S2 for me to /facepalm.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: duster.7013

duster.7013

Look, auto attacking is not interesting. You would objectively make the game more boring by raising all cooldowns. At that point the first person to drop a spell lost the fight. There’s no skill to watch or counter play or anything if your CD’s don’t overlap.

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Posted by: sinject.4607

sinject.4607

People want to raise the skill floor when I see sooo many Guards lose to classes like Condi necro in 1v1… and I’m on their team because Matchmaking couldn’t find more Plat players so they retort to Gold T1… but it’s ok because our team have 59 MMR points higher and are destined to win… -25 to lose.

Sure.. raise the skill floor. Make it incredible hard for people to play Guard. Make it Season 2 again. I at least never saw many Guardians in S2 for me to /facepalm.

you couldn’t raise the skillfloor past where guardian has already raised it.

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Posted by: BurrTheKing.8571

BurrTheKing.8571

Look, auto attacking is not interesting. You would objectively make the game more boring by raising all cooldowns. At that point the first person to drop a spell lost the fight. There’s no skill to watch or counter play or anything if your CD’s don’t overlap.

It’s also not interesting to just watch players constantly cycling rotations while the screen becomes a mess of particle effects that is both boring to play and nearly impossible to watch. I like particle effects, I don’t enjoy my screen being a rainbow vomit explosion.

I’m not saying we need 20 seconds in between combos, just that maybe you don’t have to ALWAYS be using one.

Just an angry old man…

Old Man Burr (War), Bad Hat Ben (Engi), Manly Manny Manson (Guard)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Look, auto attacking is not interesting. You would objectively make the game more boring by raising all cooldowns. At that point the first person to drop a spell lost the fight. There’s no skill to watch or counter play or anything if your CD’s don’t overlap.

It’s also not interesting to just watch players constantly cycling rotations while the screen becomes a mess of particle effects that is both boring to play and nearly impossible to watch. I like particle effects, I don’t enjoy my screen being a rainbow vomit explosion.

I’m not saying we need 20 seconds in between combos, just that maybe you don’t have to ALWAYS be using one.

You can’t stop that though. Players not at the top will always learn combos because they just aren’t good enough to dyamically interact with the fight and change what they are doing in response to their enemy. So they learn the most effective combo that will have teh best outcome for them the majority of the time in favorable matchups and just spam that.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

agreed completely skill spam there is no difference between legendary players and bronzies…… =/

that is one of the initial objectives of the game, reduce the gap between a good players and bad ones.

when all skills even feel like cleaves and aoe spam, u know u dont even need to know wich target u need to hit since most will hit, all that is needed is that will hit several targets(the better) and will hit hard dont need even to be a good player to play with a high damage buids.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Nyx.6532

Nyx.6532

when Every class can do Everything and there is no real limitation or “class diversity” this is what you get.
its one of the many reasons i personally dislike a system where Every class is supposed to do Every role.

i just see it as unnessesary as class roles are generally pretty well rounded normally, and the character archtypes are what the Vast majority want to play (however a lot will simply deal with playing something they don’t like just because it is so vastly more powerfull than the archtype for that class type).

besides that it is also the feeling off impact just isnt there. removing the “numbers” it looks/feels like you are hitting people with a pillow no matter what you do.
there is no feeling of “weight” or “impact” on any skills, and to be fair the vast majority of skills is just “shrugged off” as again everyone can so easily counter everything (so meta build FTW).

the best we can hope is changes to animations so it has the look of impactfull

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Posted by: Nyx.6532

Nyx.6532

agreed completely skill spam there is no difference between legendary players and bronzies…… =/

that is one of the initial objectives of the game, reduce the gap between a good players and bad ones.

then they failed extremely hard. with over 25 different buff/debuff icons to keep track of at a glimse. ton of instant use skills to lower your timeframe for descission. 36 different fields combo’s to track. and the complete removal of “class identification” and “class roles”.

i cannot think of an mmorpg that creates more of a overcomplexity and cluster kitten its mechanical setup.
in 5v5+ it becomes utterly impossible to follow what is going on, which builds are on the field, which targets are key to take down first, what buffs/debuffs everyone has that need to be reacted to in this specific moment, etc.

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Posted by: duster.7013

duster.7013

I’m not saying we need 20 seconds in between combos, just that maybe you don’t have to ALWAYS be using one.

It being hard to watch goes away once you learn the spells.