Guild Wars 2

gavyne.6847:

People secure a division or tier, then they throw the games and tank their mmr. Once they start getting easier games they start playing to secure the next tier, rinse & repeat. Saw it happen with many people whom I’ve fought, know how good they are/can be. Then an hour later saw the same people mindlessly run to the far node losing 1v1 fights over and over for no reason.

I’m sorry but Anet isn’t going to catch this nor will they do anything about it. They can’t afford to ban the already small playerbase they have in PvP. The fact that ruby and above players have to wait hours long before getting a match should tell you just how small the PvP playerbase is where they can’t even put together a 5v5 match. Think about that for a sec. So for devs to say they’re gonna banhammer people who throw games deliberately? LOL I laugh in your general direction. Not to mention a lot of these players are pro league players, without them, Anet wouldn’t have esports.

Your system is getting exploited, I’m sapphire and saw my pips melt away tonight due to diamond level players exploiting the system to get match ups against folks 2 divisions below them. It hasn’t been enjoyable tonight both due to getting impossible match ups and lose pips in the process, but also when we should be winning but watch good players deliberately toss the games.

Fix the system, because people sure aren’t going to stop exploiting it. Empty threats mean nothing, and these players know Anet won’t touch them.

Also even though you can see “pattern”, this does not suffice as to “proof”.
There’s actually no HARD evidence to back it up.

They can claim that they’re feeling unwell during that time, or just trying new builds. (Who said you MUST play a Meta build in rank Q?) It may seem like excuses, but you have no evidence to prove them wrong too.

Anet would get alot of lawsuit issue if they just ban players when they didn’t play as well as they previously did.

Aomine.5012:

gavyne.6847:

People secure a division or tier, then they throw the games and tank their mmr. Once they start getting easier games they start playing to secure the next tier, rinse & repeat. Saw it happen with many people whom I’ve fought, know how good they are/can be. Then an hour later saw the same people mindlessly run to the far node losing 1v1 fights over and over for no reason.

I’m sorry but Anet isn’t going to catch this nor will they do anything about it. They can’t afford to ban the already small playerbase they have in PvP. The fact that ruby and above players have to wait hours long before getting a match should tell you just how small the PvP playerbase is where they can’t even put together a 5v5 match. Think about that for a sec. So for devs to say they’re gonna banhammer people who throw games deliberately? LOL I laugh in your general direction. Not to mention a lot of these players are pro league players, without them, Anet wouldn’t have esports.

Your system is getting exploited, I’m sapphire and saw my pips melt away tonight due to diamond level players exploiting the system to get match ups against folks 2 divisions below them. It hasn’t been enjoyable tonight both due to getting impossible match ups and lose pips in the process, but also when we should be winning but watch good players deliberately toss the games.

Fix the system, because people sure aren’t going to stop exploiting it. Empty threats mean nothing, and these players know Anet won’t touch them.

Also even though you can see “pattern”, this does not suffice as to “proof”.
There’s actually no HARD evidence to back it up.

They can claim that they’re feeling unwell during that time, or just trying new builds. (Who said you MUST play a Meta build in rank Q?) It may seem like excuses, but you have no evidence to prove them wrong too.

Anet would get alot of lawsuit issue if they just ban players when they didn’t play as well as they previously did.

Yea it’s going to be a bit of a stretch. Honestly I’ve seen the same things happen in popular MOBAs before like LoL. There’s no way to deal with players genuinely competing with experimental builds even in Ranked play.

That being said, there’s a lot of turmoil going on with the ranked system, eventually the divisions will start to even out, with quite a few outliers since you can’t actually drop divisions save for Legendary increments, and you won’t see such troll plays at the higher divisions given the players at those divisions are dedicated.

I will say this, despite all of the shenanigans, there’s a white lining, SPvP is pretty popping compared to WvW. So hey there’s that!

Greetings from EU morning queues, where AFKing is alive and well. People jump around in spawn and don’t participate, throwing games on purpose. They are reported of course, but I have never ever seen reporting lead to anything. The same players keep on AFKing like there’s no tomorrow. So here’s my Christmas wish to ANet – please for the love of god study other competitive games and see how they handle this stuff and implement measures accordingly.

In the spirit of the Christmas season, I’ll share how Heroes of the Storm discourages reets:

If you BM other players and are reported for it, you get muted for a period of time. You also have a mark of shame on your character portrait visible to everyone.

If you dodge ranked queue, disconnect or AFK, you lose rank and are forced to play three quick matches (the equivalent of unranked) before you can queue ranked again. As HotS matches last longer than GW2 matches on average, three games is about the same as five GW2 matches.

The above measures are not rocket science. The difference between GW2 and HotS is that in HotS, the report function actually does something and leads to tangible penalties that have an immediate impact. We need this in GW2 and we need it like it was August 2012.

They should add afk report and check box that should be confirmed by at least 7 players to avoid abusing it.
SO whole team must confrim afk player +3 from oponents team,leading to 24h dishonour.
Will love to see who will afk after that.

This is a different take on the issue.

I was looking at the basic maths of the issue – the game theory – in broad strokes for an outsider/player viewpoint.

After you get to Emerald Status – at the outset – the simple question is where do the pips come from? It appears that for every match, for every pip won, there is a pip lost, the only ratcheting feature (in emerald) is the fact that if you get 5 pips, they cant get taken away.

I am now taking the view of a single PUG competitor.

This means that the only way forward is 5 clean wins (with random team mates), typically being thrown in the ring against teams with TS.

Given that the MMR system is “in-reality” broken as there appears to be no adjustment for playing a different toon/build.

Any game of chance has to have some form of forward or reverse bias, i.e Casinos make money on this, everyone knows up front that the mathematical model makes them win about 5% of the value bet over a period of time.

The rules for this season appear to have no forward bias, once you get past amber, and I do appreciate that you are trying to separate the ducks from the ducklings, but I have played 4 games in 10 where my teams loss was within 10 points, and I have finished in the top half of the team standings, and still lost a pip – every time!

It appears to me (and everyone else) that apart from actually winning – you loose a pip – and I am sure that this is the root of the behavioural problems of the players.

This is the point that I want to make clear – basic Game Theory here is that the only gains in pips overall for the entire group to progress – x number of players times, 25 pips – given the apparent 1 for 1 ratio pips lost to pips won – come from the backstop of having no pips!.

This means that the only true forward progress in pips overall is the gain of pips made by the winner when the loser of the match can’t lose a pip because it is at zero to start with.

Now Anet is wondering why there is a problem with negative behaviour!!!!

I would suggest that a CLEAR positive bias to the rules has to be considered, and explained/announced

A simple suggestion would be the following:

obviously Anet would have to run some kind of simulation to get closer figures for the points at which to make the breaks

A win within 5 or 10 points – all the losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 10 or 20 points – the top 4 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 15 or 30 points – the top 3 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 20 or 40 points – the top 2 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 25 or 50 points – the top losing players doesn’t lose a pip

Further, any player who has more than 3,4 or 5 “Player Top Stat’s” doesn’t lose a pip

This formula would possibly be adjusted for the higher levels by reducing percentages and increasing the Top Stat requirement.

This would give a visible forward bias – and ensure closely contested games, and should reduce the negative behaviour.

The problem then would possibly the positive collusion where the winning team may back off a little to allow the losing team to catch up and thus limit its losses – but this is at least not outright nasty to everyone concerned

two fix ideas:
1) if someone has lost x pips they drop down a tier, (min pip requirement) and they can only play people with that min/max pip number for that bracket.

2) once you lose x matchs, you next game win/loss you rating drops to that of you opponents.

i have very little faith that this will actually fix the problem of players deliberately losing. Seems to be very easy to make it look like you are playing to win but actually lose.

Heck just play a full glass warrior. You can try really really hard and you will still lose.

Flashfly.5768:

A win within 5 or 10 points – all the losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 10 or 20 points – the top 4 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 15 or 30 points – the top 3 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 20 or 40 points – the top 2 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 25 or 50 points – the top losing players doesn’t lose a pip

Further, any player who has more than 3,4 or 5 “Player Top Stat’s” doesn’t lose a pip

This formula would possibly be adjusted for the higher levels by reducing percentages and increasing the Top Stat requirement.

This would give a visible forward bias – and ensure closely contested games, and should reduce the negative behaviour.

The problem then would possibly the positive collusion where the winning team may back off a little to allow the losing team to catch up and thus limit its losses – but this is at least not outright nasty to everyone concerned

The problem on tying the pip loss to personal score will be unfair to bunkers and defenders. They sure are great assets to the team and fights but the score will be subpar compared to bruisers and others that shift around more frequently.

So if I lose a match do I just report everyone on my team? How is this going to work exactly?

I’ve been paired with TERRIBLE players for my last 12 games, and i’ve lost all 12 of them. As much as I would love to see all those players banned, I’m pretty sure they were actually trying, and they just sucked really poorly.

Does playing a class that isn’t DH,Chrono, or rev count as intentionally losing? 90% of my matches can be determined just by counting which side has more of those 3 classes.

Tying pips to personal score will just lead to players double and triple capping nodes because they want those personal points. This will make the team less effective and may end up losing the match.

Spartacus.3192:

Tying pips to personal score will just lead to players double and triple capping nodes because they want those personal points. This will make the team less effective and may end up losing the match.

I agree it would turn soloQ into soloPlay. Everyone going for the kills no matter where they are on the map, double-triple caps, killing beast just because etc etc

Honestly, I don’t think people are mass tossing games… I think they are just over rated.

A huge majority of players have a lower rating than somebody with zero games played. That’s just how ELO based systems work. So average, and even good players are going to be ranked below first timers.

All of the unranked heroes, recent free to play players, and achievement farmers will have zero or few ranked games prior to the start of this season & they all have to lose matches to achieve their proper rating.

This means that some players lost a lot of matches before they started to win.

Spartacus.3192:

i have very little faith that this will actually fix the problem of players deliberately losing. Seems to be very easy to make it look like you are playing to win but actually lose.

Heck just play a full glass warrior. You can try really really hard and you will still lose.

Yep. One can argue they’re just “trying out new builds” after each tier, “knowing they won’t lose a pipe even when lost”. Is there a game role saying you can’t try new builds knowing that you can take minimal risk after you earn a tier?

You seriously CANNOT punish people like that, regardless of their real intention.
The “pattern theory” of win/lose ratio simply just not really an evidence at all.

The only way to fix this, is fixing your pipe gain/lost, match-up, team Q vs Solo Q issues, which is the root of problem.

Punishing people wouldn’t change anything. (It’d only affect the stupid ones that deliberately afk)

Aomine.5012:

Anet would get alot of lawsuit issue if they just ban players when they didn’t play as well as they previously did.

Anet would get zero lawsuits because they have the power to regulate their game as they see fit.

azyume.6321:

Flashfly.5768:

A win within 5 or 10 points – all the losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 10 or 20 points – the top 4 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 15 or 30 points – the top 3 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 20 or 40 points – the top 2 losing players don’t lose a pip
A win within 25 or 50 points – the top losing players doesn’t lose a pip

Further, any player who has more than 3,4 or 5 “Player Top Stat’s” doesn’t lose a pip

This formula would possibly be adjusted for the higher levels by reducing percentages and increasing the Top Stat requirement.

This would give a visible forward bias – and ensure closely contested games, and should reduce the negative behaviour.

The problem then would possibly the positive collusion where the winning team may back off a little to allow the losing team to catch up and thus limit its losses – but this is at least not outright nasty to everyone concerned

The problem on tying the pip loss to personal score will be unfair to bunkers and defenders. They sure are great assets to the team and fights but the score will be subpar compared to bruisers and others that shift around more frequently.

1) That is why I suggested the additional Top Stats issue, because some styles of play/players may not score highly – but will definitely show up in the Top Stats lists.

2) If something like this was applied it would probably shift players towards playing on point!

3) The scoring system itself probably needs reviewing – as this may be a contributing factor to the MMR issues, I certainly agree that defending a point should have a more positive points bias than it has at the moment.

4) Multi-Claims / Forest Creatures could possibly see some split points if this were to become an issue

Again the main issue is not how, but the fact that there needs to be some sort of clear positive bias with regard to the awarding/removing of pips.

i bet none of the people in this thread have actually done this themselves. because if they actually tried, they would realize its a waste of time and not that easy lol….

Maybe anet should stop treating pvp player slike carebears and make everyones w/l public. I don’t know why anyone would want to tank their seasn ranking or record on the website….. some pve time played rank next to your name is nothing to brag about compared to your season ranking on the website. I have a hard time believing people are actually doing this, and if they believe this rumour, you could probably also sell them magical sand from the beach…

pandaexpress.1458:

After just advancing into the emerald division after 20-something long games of getting through Amber division, I lost a game because we had a teammate refuse to play. He stayed at home and did nothing. He did not d/c or leave, but he sometimes left home and died while autoattacking the enemy player taking the point. I wouldn’t be too annoyed at this loss if I didn’t lose a pip.

The game is rewarding players who deliberately toss games by making future games easier. When a player comes in with the intent to lose what are the rest of us supposed to do. His loss becomes all of our losses.

The problem goes deeper.

Some 5 man teams do this:

• Take your 5 man team, take one guy out so the team is 4 and one is solo.
• Everyone ques at the same time.
• Good chances of that solo landing right back in your team or on the team they face.
• If solo lands in your team with you, you’re all still in teamspeak.
• If solo lands on the team you’re against, he throws the match by conducting deliberating stupid rotations and walking in to points to die alone, all on purpose.
• Next match, a different person rotates out as the solo, repeat process.

Match manipulation is a problem but easy cured by only playing with a 5 man premade. This way there is no space in your team for match manipulation tactics.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

pandaexpress.1458:

After just advancing into the emerald division after 20-something long games of getting through Amber division, I lost a game because we had a teammate refuse to play. He stayed at home and did nothing. He did not d/c or leave, but he sometimes left home and died while autoattacking the enemy player taking the point. I wouldn’t be too annoyed at this loss if I didn’t lose a pip.

The game is rewarding players who deliberately toss games by making future games easier. When a player comes in with the intent to lose what are the rest of us supposed to do. His loss becomes all of our losses.

The problem goes deeper.

Some 5 man teams do this:

• Take your 5 man team, take one guy out so the team is 4 and one is solo.
• Everyone ques at the same time.
• Good chances of that solo landing right back in your team or on the team they face.
• If solo lands in your team with you, you’re all still in teamspeak.
• If solo lands on the team you’re against, he throws the match by conducting deliberating stupid rotations and walking in to points to die alone, all on purpose.
• Next match, a different person rotates out as the solo, repeat process.

Match manipulation is a problem but easy cured by only playing with a 5 man premade. This way there is no space in your team for match manipulation tactics.

The more reason to separate team Q and solo Q entirely.
It WAS working back then, why taking it away now?
Because yknow those cheap pre-made that enjoy easy matches can’t farm us anymore and need to wait 20 mins for Que due to the lack of real dedicated pvp community?

The current system is just not going to work. MMR is just one more thing add to the salt. Stop caring about those 5% elite team and give 95% of the community a chance will you? Those top 5% people already has a chance of winning 200,000 dollars, they don’t need more freebies.