Guild Wars 2

I only skimmed over the previous replies to this post, so I apologize If I missed anything important. But since there are a couple of misconceptions about this, I’ll give a quick statement as well.

Btw, since you probably can’t tell by my account name, I’m ChroNick, the German Shoutcaster Sputti mentioned.

As Sputti already said, the thought that we are not using this feature at all isn’t really true. We have pretty much stopped using this feature to stream teamQ games due to a couple of reasons.

The original reason was just a kind of drought of Q-pops (meaning the messages we get, saying that we can watch a game). This drought existed as far as I know because of a combination of few people playing and the rating threshold above which we could spectate games, being a bit to high at one point. This then resulted in up to 30 minute waiting periods between the games, which we then had to fill somehow. And even though I think all shoutcasters have some practice with having to fill time, it did result in a somewhat unpleasant experience for both shoutcasters and viewers.

Both the threshold and player-base problem have been resolved (resolved itself) for a while now, so we are atm getting Q-pops quite frequently.

Now comes the second reason, which is quite simply that a lot of the time we are already casting 1 or 2 days every week, with the regular tourneys like the ESL Weekly Cup and then sometimes stuff on the weekends like ToL or at the moment ToG.
And if I remember correctly, back when we used to stream TeamQ, the number of viewers/the interest in it was not as big as one might think. Based on this thread I’d have to say, maybe the interest has grown now and it might be worth the additional investment of time.
If the time to invest can be found that is :-)

Concerning the thought that we then don’t use the system at all, or the statement that we spectate from time to time if we are bored…

OK, honestly, yes sometimes I watch games if I’m bored. From time to time we also just chat with the teams playing. But even If you don’t believe it, most of the time we use the tool to improve our knowledge about the game or more specifically about the teams. We watch the games to learn strategies that teams use, so that in a shoutcast we might every once in a while be able to identify the precursors of a certain move and explain it to the viewers.

We watch the games to learn the playstyles of teams and players. For example “does a team have the tendency to be overtly aggressive, and could another team due to team composition or their own style take advantage of that?”

We watch the games to spot newly formed teams that might have the potential to become one of the top teams, so that in a roster of 32 or 64 teams we can say have an eye on that team, they’ve looked good in teamQ, and maybe we should cast this match instead of another one.

With the knowledge that we do in fact watch a lot of games you might now think “If your watching them anyway, why don’t you stream them?”

Well, compared to just watching a game and maybe taking some notes on the side, casting a game is kittening exhausting (and yes I wrote “kittening” on purpose).

Also, I can’t speak for the other Shoucasters, but for me watching a game to gather information and shoutcasting a game are two completely different things. Not only do I spectate it differently, but while casting a game I don’t retain as much information as I would when just watching it, at least not for the long term. Don’t ask me why, most likely my brain is just weird. So in my case the preparation for the next shoutcast most of the time involves re-watching even the matches that I have casted myself.

If viewers would just want to watch the games and not necessarily mind not having a proper cast, but more a kind of “casual cast”, that would be a whole lot easier to do on a regular basis. So if you guys would want 2 people just having a chilled conversation about the game and maybe sometimes talking a whole load of rubbish that has nothing to do with the game (I know, not much different from my normal shoutcasts ;-P), then that might be something to try out.

Ok, enough rambling from me. That was probably way more information than anyone of you ever wanted XD

Sputti.8214:

Lordrosicky.5813:

This technology has been given to your “authorised shoutcasters” who do NOTHING to use this great perk either to promote the game or even to watch matches.

Hey,

i’m german Caster and i think you are from NA right? Cause on EU, we spectate a lot of Games. I watch ~7-10 Games per day, to learn Builds, to see the Teams, to learn Account-Names and to talk to PvP-Player.

You can ask Teams like 55 HP, Lunch Box, Cheese Mode, Made in Meta, PBJT, they always talk to me in Map-Chat. Some Teams dont like spectating, so i dont say “Hello” in every Match.

And i am not the only one on EU. ChroNick, the other german caster, spectates more matches than me, Waffle from France is often spectating with me together and we talk about the matches in the Team-Chat.

The other problem is, that you cant stream the Top-Teams. Most of them dont want to get streamed, cause you should not show their strategies to the public. So we have ~4-6 Games per hour to spectate, in four or five of them we are not allowed to cast. You can imagine how boring a stream would be with only 1 Game per hour. So most of the Teams are the reason why we cant cast it, but we still use it to learn something from them.

Please dont say, that shoutcaster dont use this tool, cause you cant see, if Casters are in your Match.

go away sputti :<

Sputti.8214:

Lordrosicky.5813:

This technology has been given to your “authorised shoutcasters” who do NOTHING to use this great perk either to promote the game or even to watch matches.

Hey,

i’m german Caster and on EU, we spectate a lot of Games. I watch ~7-10 Games per day, to learn Builds, to see the Teams, to learn Account-Names and to talk to PvP-Player.

You can ask Teams like 55 HP, Lunch Box, Cheese Mode, Made in Meta, PBJT, they always talk to me in Map-Chat. Some Teams dont like spectating, so i dont say “Hello” in every Match.

And i am not the only one on EU. ChroNick, the other german caster, spectates more matches than me, Waffle from France is often spectating with me together and we talk about the matches in the Team-Chat.

The other problem is, that you cant stream the Top-Teams. Most of them dont want to get streamed, cause you should not show their strategies to the public. So we have ~4-6 Games per hour to spectate, in four or five of them we are not allowed to cast. You can imagine how boring a stream would be with only 1 Game per hour. So most of the Teams are the reason why we cant cast it, but we still use it to learn something from them.

Please dont say, that shoutcaster dont use this tool, cause you cant see, if Casters are in your Match.

I am not critising the shoutcasters. I am just saying if they don’t use the features they are given to shoutcast then anet should find other people to stream the games.

One of the only people I saw stream games was sensotix but anet banned him from using the system for some stupid reasons.

In a way it is worse if you guys use the system just to watch games but dont shoutcast them.

And the point is if you are not comfortable streaming the games then it would be worth just giving up the privilege of watching games and emailing anet asking them to find a replacement for you. Preferably someone who will use the feature to shoutcast games – as it was designed for.

Although then you guys can still do the tournaments and stuff. You dont need the ability to watch team queues for this. Either way, the shoutcasters who we see often do a GREAT job. I said many times they do this. I am just talking about an in-game feature which is very powerful and currently is not used at all, which is a massive shame.

Lordrosicky.5813:

In a way it is worse if you guys use the system just to watch games but dont shoutcast them.

And the point is if you are not comfortable streaming the games then it would be worth just giving up the privilege of watching games and emailing anet asking them to find a replacement for you. Preferably someone who will use the feature to shoutcast games – as it was designed for.

You want to watch a Stream, which is 55 min on break and then one game and then 55 min break? Because that is all you can get by streaming this. Teams dont want to get casted and we have to accept this. And we invest so many hours per week in planning Tourneys, cast tournaments and help the community, we cant do more for you.

But everyone here can apply to the ASP, join us, and cast the Qpops and work with the Community. Everyone can invest the same time to help GW2, like we in ASP do. But remeber: you are not allowed to play bigger tournaments like ToL, ToG and WTS cause we have the advantage of knowing Team-strategies and you really have to work and not sit around and do nothing!

And Sensotix absolutly deserved the kick. He did something, we were not allowed to do!

Lordrosicky.5813:

In a way it is worse if you guys use the system just to watch games but dont shoutcast them

Again, we can only cast games if the Teams allow it. If they dont, we cant. And yes, using this to learn Teams, Strategies and Builds is not bad, its the idea of the Shoutcaster Programm, cause we have to know these people, we have to know their strategies, cause we talk about it in every Tournament. Knowing the teams and their plans is as important as knowing the game itself.

- casters arent oblligated to listen to the teams are they? I’d just cast them without consent, does more good than evil to the scene
- I doubt this feature will be available to the general public in the near future: anet showed that they have trouble with these mechanics (putting in delay isnt that easy, same concept as replays)

Erwin.5603:

- casters arent oblligated to listen to the teams are they? I’d just cast them without consent, does more good than evil to the scene

If Teams dont want to get shoutcasted, we cant cast them. And so many Teams block us from casting, i think we can only cast 1 out of 6 games, maybe less.

Hi ! I’m Waffle, french caster.

I’m going to answer to people thinking casters do nothing with Qpops they get to watch.

A large majority of players know casters through their streams/videos. In fact very few players actually know a stream/video is only the final step in all the work we do.

It is true we don’t stream Qpops but there are reasons why we don’t. As Jeb, Blu, Sputti & ChroNick already said, we produced content from these Qpops in the past but it prooved to not be practical and enjoyable for both casters and viewers.

Hearing that we do nothing except from casting tournaments and that we shouldn’t be able to watch team queues makes me sad because it shows players don’t understand the amount of work we put into the game and the role Qpops have in our workflow.

Again, as Sputti pointed out, anybody can come and join us ! We would be happy to welcome someone with the same passion we have about the game.

Sputti.8214:

Erwin.5603:

- casters arent oblligated to listen to the teams are they? I’d just cast them without consent, does more good than evil to the scene

If Teams dont want to get shoutcasted, we cant cast them. And so many Teams block us from casting, i think we can only cast 1 out of 6 games, maybe less.

So you are actually not allowed to cast if teams forbid it? Is this part of the rules of being a shoutcaster. I am shocked at that to be honest

Lordrosicky.5813:

So you are actually not allowed to cast if teams forbid it? Is this part of the rules of being a shoutcaster. I am shocked at that to be honest

i can understand it. In League of legends, teams scrim to test Builds and Strategies, but in GW2, we have not enough teams to have a lot of scrims, so you try things in TeamQ. So its possible that we reveal some special tactics. So teams can block us from casting yes.

Sputti.8214:

Lordrosicky.5813:

So you are actually not allowed to cast if teams forbid it? Is this part of the rules of being a shoutcaster. I am shocked at that to be honest

i can understand it. In League of legends, teams scrim to test Builds and Strategies, but in GW2, we have not enough teams to have a lot of scrims, so you try things in TeamQ. So its possible that we reveal some special tactics. So teams can block us from casting yes.

But is it an official rule?

Because i think it’s a very weird in a public session, teams can decide to be not streamed.

Team queue is not custom arena.

If it were an official rule, i think anet should change it.

One thing that is important as we move on into the area of cash tournies and being more visible is respect.

That is to respect opinions of our players and the communities within spvp.

Personally I am not about to stream/cast on a game where I do not have permission from the players to stream it. It isn’t a rule, its a courtesy and isn’t just there to provide the stream but to give us insight for future official streams and tournies.

As mentioned above, you can of course apply to the ASP when its open and go ahead and stream/cast the games if you wish, but I feel the only way you could understand the position is potentially to be in it yourself.

I definitely understand what you mean about wanting that extra insight into other teams and players, but we would prefer to have a good relationship in order for us to get closer to them than create tension to the point where we are even more out of touch.

A ton of teams play regularly on stream as in members of these teams that run solo streams in pug groups or in team comps. But there is a reason why perhaps that more don’t stream their regular compositions and team strats and thats because they dont want to give the game away

Love the idea, please give us this ANet! An in-game observer mode for tournament games by the top-ranked teams would educate players and bind the community closer together! Observer mode in GW1 was an awesome tool: you learned about new builds and tactics, you made new friends in chat, and you got to see some awesome matchups from the absolute best players in the game!

Not saying that commentated matches via Twitch aren’t also good, but, well, first of all they’re only on a couple times a week, secondly you don’t get to observe the players you want, only the players the shoutcaster follows (and with GW2 being a very fast-paced game, and conquest being a game mode which forces teams to split, you’re hardly ever going to see the point of view you’re most interested in), and thirdly, with only a small number of teams competing at a high level (and rolling the competition) you’re always seeing the same people at finals and semifinals, popularising the builds favoured by a handful of players due to people copycatting the successful players, and skewing the meta artificially. So a broader observer mode pool would be good for the game as well as the playerbase.

Archaon.9524:

Actually in gw1 matches are aviable to spectate after they ended….so also teams who were in can analize what they did and what went wrong..and all of this YEARS ago without twitch and stuff…

But ofc devs there had brains…not just caring bout pve heroes and gems..

Yeah, it really is INCREDIBLE what ANet managed to do back then! Especially when yolu remember that, in 2005 when GW1 launched, Youtube was JUST getting started, the resolution and streaming quality was so low that watching games footage made your eyes bleed, and live streaming was not available AT ALL! Not that anyone would’ve had the bandwidth to watch live streams even if they existed: even on a relatively fast cable connection, I normally had to let most youtube videos buffer for a while before I could watch. :p

And yet GW1 managed to launch not just an esports scene, with a pretty high prize pool by 2006 standards, but basically its own 24/7 tv channel as well! Think about it: back then all you had was Starcraft (big in Korea, not so much elsewhere, and broadcast on tv so no technical limitaitons of the same sort), and a couple of big FPSs (Painkiller, Quake 3, Counterstrike – most of them not broadcast at all, though people could record their games and post the replay file up on a forum for people to download).

It was a hugely ballsy move on ANet’s part. I don’t know if the people responsible for observer mode are still in the company, but props to them whoever they were!

Iight, you guys made your case. The next time I’m able to stream during prime time when the queues are popping I’ll try it again and see how much pushback I get from players.

If you want to wait until after the current large tourny that’s cool and fair, just make a new policy for after. People do like watching games and having them as a permanent fixture will be a boon for us all.

jebro.6370:

One thing that is important as we move on into the area of cash tournies and being more visible is respect.

That is to respect opinions of our players and the communities within spvp.

Personally I am not about to stream/cast on a game where I do not have permission from the players to stream it. It isn’t a rule, its a courtesy and isn’t just there to provide the stream but to give us insight for future official streams and tournies.

That’s not an issue Blu: if ANet were to build such a technology in-game, they would surely update the EULA to note that, if you’re high-ranked and on the leaderboard, by joining a match you’re consenting to being broadcast, whether on Twitch or in-game. You guys might need to ask, but Anet don’t, cause it’s their game

As to teams being worried about their strats and builds: there was the exact same argument back in 06 when GW1 observer mode launched, but it came to nothing. Being able to see a team’s tactics and builds doesn’t mean you can execute them as well. (And this was even though GW1 required less mechanical skill than GW2 does!) It did, of course, demonstrate the viability of different sorts of builds than the ones people were using generally. There were a lot fewer spike builds after observer mode launched, though you still had some around. But the top teams weren’t overtaken by upstarts copying their builds.

Regarding how an in-game observer mode would affect the ASP: all games ranked high enough to go on observer mode would only be broadcast in-game with a delay, so shoutcasters would still get a period of exclusivity for ladder games you stream live. And since big tournaments are held in custom arenas rather than on the ladder, shoutcasters would have complete exclusivity for those. And even if those games were viewable from an in-game mode as well, ANet could give ASPs a period of exclusivity before make them accessible for viewing in-game, or they could even do what DOTA2 does, and allow viewers to listen to the audio from the relevant Twitch or Youtube stream overlaid on the match! That way you guys get hits to your channel even if players choose to watch a match in-game rather than on Twitch.

jebro.6370:

2, Teams may want to keep builds, rotations & tactics secret from other players for tournies. We are now involved in tournies with 50k up for grabs, not sure Id want my opponents watching us daily knowing everything about our comp.

3, Teams may consist of a super pug or some well known players that don’t feel the team represents them truly in a stream. They could just be having fun and want to chill without that extra pressure.

Point 2 I answered above. As for point 3: this is why we need a TEAM-based leaderboard rather than an individual one! We’re already allowed to be in multiple guilds, so if your rank was associated with your guild rather than your character, you could just swap to a different, lower-ranked guild tag to play around in a relaxed, non-competitive atmosphere. Remember “smurf guilds”?

If you could spectate the games and see everything, would you also watch the twitch stream?

All due respect Jebro, but if people had the option and didn’t choose Twitch, maybe the shoutcaster isn’t adding enough to the experience to make up for the inconvenience of watching it on Twitch! It’s up to you guys to up your game rather than to ask the devs not to add features that will encourage MORE players to watch pvp! That’s called protectionism and any economist will tell you that it’s not a good way to run things.

jebro.6370:

If you could spectate the games and see everything, would you also watch the twitch stream?

Personally, I’d prefer to watch the Twitch stream.
I love the shoutcasting, I love the jokes on the Twitch chat about Jebro’s baldness (lel), I love how the community interacts via Twitch.

’The argument we see so often that states “but guild wars 1 had it” often forgets guild wars 2 is using a completely new engine with minimal, if any parts of the old engine. ’

A completely new engine that can do less than an almost 10 yo engine. Sounds legit.

Anyhow, iirc a dev stated very clearly that implementing a GW-style observer mode would take about a year’s worth of programming.
In other words, no way, jose.

Also, a big lol at teams fearing their strats would get leaked prior to a match. Just one big LOL.

maybe when someone rage quits on a match, 1 of the spectators gets balanced in for full rewards?

You know you can also record matches and put them on youtube later right? What if ppl say no to stream sounds like an excuse to me…when good teams are playing just go in, record matches upload the good ones…done…and no waiting for viewers..

If anet gave you this option just get in and record without asking…you don’t need to ask you already have the right to do so…or are “top” teams supposed to have more autority than game’s owner?

This is all speculation.

Honestly, as a player on a top team, if there was a some sort of feature that was incorporated with this idea that allowed whomever sent out the invites for the party to choose a button as to whether or not that “match can be viewable/replayed” or “match cannot be viewable/replayed”, with no being the default choice. If this option was given, all consensus as to whether or not teams don’t want their matches viewed by the public is eliminated, and everyone knows it was a mutual agreement by both parties.

I know for us, it was nice when Grouch would ask if we were ok with builds being shown or the match being streamed. We didn’t have a problem with it 90% of the time, but if there were any objections, we were given the option.

This would also allow for other things as well. Top players can now form super pugs to play against other super pugs and have their matched viewed to teach new players the game. It can essentially lead to all-star type matches being formed on a daily basis to give some form of entertainment. The top players in the community, have done this on already except we did it using custom arenas. With spectator mode, it would give us an incentive to do it, but in team ques instead. Super pugs don’t care about whether or not they are viewed publicly.

just saying, they DONT have the technology available. Spectator mode has only 20 slots and changing that would mean to change alot.

A dev said that once in a similar thread.

It would be nice (guild wars 1 made it better, like so many things) but it will never happen

The backend of the two games isn’t that different, apart from the addition of a Z-axis and a more advanced graphics engine. But if it’s possible to spectate in realtime, then it should be possible to spectate with a delay.

jebro.6370:

One thing that is important as we move on into the area of cash tournies and being more visible is respect.

That is to respect opinions of our players and the communities within spvp.

Personally I am not about to stream/cast on a game where I do not have permission from the players to stream it. It isn’t a rule, its a courtesy and isn’t just there to provide the stream but to give us insight for future official streams and tournies.

Sincerely, such answers are a joke.

team q is effectively a “ranked game” and, as such, there’s NO POSSIBLE WAY for a team to decide if it should be streamed or not.

It’s just like a soccer team denying TVs to broadcast their matches, it’s PURE RIDICOLOUSNESS and you’re part of this ridicolousness.

There’s no lack of respect in it, it’s just childish behaviour by people who have no power to decide, and are able to just cuz you shoutcasters are acting spineless.

If they don’t want to get streamed, custom arenas and scrimmes are available, otherwise they can simply not play, other people will take their places cuz sports ( and e-sports too) don’t need this kind of people.

This is definitively another reason to implement permanent decay, so such pitiful human beings can be slowly cut off from the game.

ROFL.

Django.5923:

just saying, they DONT have the technology available. Spectator mode has only 20 slots and changing that would mean to change alot.

A dev said that once in a similar thread.

It would be nice (guild wars 1 made it better, like so many things) but it will never happen

…pretty sad they already had that technology back in gw1 years ago…but you’re probably right, they can’t even implement a (working) ready button to solve 4v5…nough said..

Mrbig.8019:

jebro.6370:

One thing that is important as we move on into the area of cash tournies and being more visible is respect.

That is to respect opinions of our players and the communities within spvp.

Personally I am not about to stream/cast on a game where I do not have permission from the players to stream it. It isn’t a rule, its a courtesy and isn’t just there to provide the stream but to give us insight for future official streams and tournies.

Sincerely, such answers are a joke.

team q is effectively a “ranked game” and, as such, there’s NO POSSIBLE WAY for a team to decide if it should be streamed or not.

It’s just like a soccer team denying TVs to broadcast their matches, it’s PURE RIDICOLOUSNESS and you’re part of this ridicolousness.

There’s no lack of respect in it, it’s just childish behaviour by people who have no power to decide, and are able to just cuz you shoutcasters are acting spineless.

If they don’t want to get streamed, custom arenas and scrimmes are available, otherwise they can simply not play, other people will take their places cuz sports ( and e-sports too) don’t need this kind of people.

This is definitively another reason to implement permanent decay, so such pitiful human beings can be slowly cut off from the game.

ROFL.

exactly, as i said before…anet already gave you streamers the right to spectate/stream/record or whatever in tque…i don’t think you need teams to let you do something anet gave you…am i wrong? If they agree it’s good if they don’t…who cares it’s not THEIR game. Ofc best option would be an “in-game” match replay feature but yeah talking about implementing new good features in gw2 pvp is going nowhere anyway..not even trying to ask anymore..

Archaon.9524:

Django.5923:

just saying, they DONT have the technology available. Spectator mode has only 20 slots and changing that would mean to change alot.

A dev said that once in a similar thread.

It would be nice (guild wars 1 made it better, like so many things) but it will never happen

…pretty sad they already had that technology back in gw1 years ago…but you’re probably right, they can’t even implement a (working) ready button to solve 4v5…nough said..

Indeed!

Also the above poster is 100% right… if you are playing in Team Q you should have no option to deny the shoutcasters the ability to broadcast your match..

If you want to use a special leet tactic to surprise your enemy then use it in the tournaments and practice it in your custom arenas thus keeping it out of team q – but the cyclical changing of strategies due to countering said strategies is a part of all competitive things including prosports esports card games etc etc

gonna try and do some now

BLUna.7928:

gonna try and do some now

+1

BLUna.7928:

gonna try and do some now

Thanks Blu was a fun one.

Blu aka the new John Madden!