Guild Wars 2

Sooloo.1364:

I have no problem with new players, as long as they stay in unranked until they learn to actually play. And as far as knowing who is new, when 4 guys are capping home at the start of a round it’s a good guess they’re new. And trying to teach them mid ranked game is more frustrating than it should be. They dont listen.

the skillceiling in this game in terms of pvp is really fascinating a bad or mediocre player from a good one is miles of difference and same aplies from good to great and pro and the game doesnt really make it easy for the individual to understand where they are with that being said tho nobody understand how bad they are at something whether it is pvp or pve until they try something challenging and they realsie how much they suck being raids in pve or ranked with better players in pvp, Some of the worst players became amazingly good after they went through this procces.

Nightshade.2570:

Sooloo.1364:

I have no problem with new players, as long as they stay in unranked until they learn to actually play. And as far as knowing who is new, when 4 guys are capping home at the start of a round it’s a good guess they’re new. And trying to teach them mid ranked game is more frustrating than it should be. They dont listen.

To some degree I agree with you, I often get frustrated with team mates and I groan inside when I know I have a very new player on my team. However, I understand they want the rewards that come from playing in ranked. I was lucky I had a mentor to teach me pvp, and I have tried to pass that on, I just wish more people would recognize that its not the fault of the new person necessarily as an outcome of the game rewards and matchmaking.

arena net needs to add a mentor feature for pvp it wont hurt anyone and it will make pvp players better.

FrownyClown.8402:

I get called bad everyday. Mostly its the team as a whole doing bad rotations and losing the individual fights.

Most players point out the flaws they see team mates doing and not their own.

I also feel only 10% of the players are like what you described

its hard to notice your own mistakes some times its easier to see the others mistakes simply becuse you watch them from a 3rd prespective while to do that for your own play you need to record the games and watch them later to see mistakes and kittenups.

I think that if Anet made it so newer players/no pvp players started with a much lower Mmr than the Above average 1500 mmr it would get rid of a lot of the complaints then you wouldn’t have them being placed with more experienced players.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I think that if Anet made it so newer players/no pvp players started with a much lower Mmr than the Above average 1500 mmr it would get rid of a lot of the complaints then you wouldn’t have them being placed with more experienced players.

Well actually I questioned the Average MMR given to new players, and I saw in another thread, I will go dig it up that Evan Lesh said they also based it on number of games.

While they may assign an average MMR to a new player they do not match people with vastly different numbers of games if it can be helped. My guess is it happens on occasion, if the matchmaking system is having to expand its search due to low populations or an influx of new players.

So in situations like the beginning of seasons yes, I would imagine you see it a bit more commonly. However, while some of you claim they are just here for the ascended rewards.

You all really need to ask yourself how many of you never play WvW or PvE and how many of you started there and eventually crossed over into PvP. I would love to see the true numbers on this one, though I doubt Arena Net would help me prove my point.

Season always have an influx of players, whether they are from PvE or WvW or Returning PvPers. Even prior to the season the number one recruiting grounds was the PvP lobby as the plethora of new players and people trying to learn were there.

In some way all I have been saying, is that we try to be a bit more patient. Maybe consider reaching out to people that are making mistakes after the game and kindly, not rudely giving them a few pointers if you think they are new. Some of them will stay? Maybe some of you Vet PvPers could do as I have done and take new people into unranked to try to teach them rotations?

You know share the knowledge? Until There is a better training system in PvP this will be an ongoing problem. I want short queue times and I want good fair competition. I think we all want that.

There is nothing like a good match to make your blood flow and smile on your face, even when I have lost some if they were exceedingly close I was happy because it was so thrilling. I am asking our community as is typical for guild wars communities to rise above the hate that pervades other games and in exchange help to bolster and improve our own gaming experience by helping others.

Right before the seasons started I actually was quite concerned becuase the queue time for me, was running over 10 minutes in ranked. Sometimes 15-20. (I consider myself on good days, maybe slightly above average.) I gave up on ranked queue because of that. I don’t want to see the huge dip that happens between seasons to continue so I am hoping that some of the people that came for the rewards will catch the PvP bug like I did years ago.

Konakona.4130:

ziggystardust.3721:

The biggest mistakes Anet did is by allowing under lvl 80 in pvp to join ranked and adding ascended set as reward for new currency. now those newbies are bringing others down.

Oi guildie, I’m not 80 too by the way =)))

About them PvE players tho – they are usually easily recognizable. Pve-titles, pve-pets on rangers, pve builds overall (like staff ele and some crazy poop like axe-axe warrior). The main problem is that so-called “players” don’t even want to learn – they never bothered with guides, builds and at least basic training; I bet 99.99% of them are terrible in PvE too and cannot do raids because golem dps check is too complicated and bothersome.

So it is not even “hate”, I just simply despise that low-effort, brain-dead joke of a players.

I was flamed for using staff on my ele. There is a guide for it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Staff-Elementalist-sPvP-Guide/first

and i also asked other eles on the official forums regarding the hate i got and I was basically told → staff isn’t bad, people are just toxic

Can you explain to me why you say that staff ele is a pve build thing?

Thanks.

Naracion.6597:

Konakona.4130:

ziggystardust.3721:

The biggest mistakes Anet did is by allowing under lvl 80 in pvp to join ranked and adding ascended set as reward for new currency. now those newbies are bringing others down.

Oi guildie, I’m not 80 too by the way =)))

About them PvE players tho – they are usually easily recognizable. Pve-titles, pve-pets on rangers, pve builds overall (like staff ele and some crazy poop like axe-axe warrior). The main problem is that so-called “players” don’t even want to learn – they never bothered with guides, builds and at least basic training; I bet 99.99% of them are terrible in PvE too and cannot do raids because golem dps check is too complicated and bothersome.

So it is not even “hate”, I just simply despise that low-effort, brain-dead joke of a players.

I was flamed for using staff on my ele. There is a guide for it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Staff-Elementalist-sPvP-Guide/first

and i also asked other eles on the official forums regarding the hate i got and I was basically told -> staff isn’t bad, people are just toxic

Can you explain to me why you say that staff ele is a pve build thing?

Thanks.

EDITED: You know what, let’s scratch everything I just said. Instead, this:

• Never run Axe offhand if you are a warrior pvping, unironically.
• PVP staff ele is nice, but keep in mind you may suffer at dueling, so you may not be able to contest points on your own. There may be ways to diminish this with lots of practice.

In short, run whatever you like as long as you arent running Axe 4 and 5 as a warrior. Otherwise you are ‘that guy.’

Konakona.4130:

ziggystardust.3721:

The biggest mistakes Anet did is by allowing under lvl 80 in pvp to join ranked and adding ascended set as reward for new currency. now those newbies are bringing others down.

Oi guildie, I’m not 80 too by the way =)))

About them PvE players tho – they are usually easily recognizable. Pve-titles, pve-pets on rangers, pve builds overall (like staff ele and some crazy poop like axe-axe warrior). The main problem is that so-called “players” don’t even want to learn – they never bothered with guides, builds and at least basic training; I bet 99.99% of them are terrible in PvE too and cannot do raids because golem dps check is too complicated and bothersome.

So it is not even “hate”, I just simply despise that low-effort, brain-dead joke of a players.

I am not saying PvE players are bad, never did. I am myself PvE, WvW and PvP player. I am saying that there are so many absolutely new players, who joined GW2 in last few months, who want to get that ascended set + easy gold, so they come to pvp and just ruining all fun. Good PVE player will know his skills, at least, he can be helpful and competitive at this level, however that new GW2 player, who want just items, is the person ruining PVP. Like I said, I have seen so many in my 100+ games this season of those “run into 4 players and die in a second”, and all of them were around 1k AP, so it’s more than clear they are new in game. To get lvl 20 in pvp is a joke.

Lets take fractals for example, to play lvl 100 fractal you need to be at least decently skilled, have enough AR etc and better gear, because it’s more challenging than lvl 1. Same should be pvp, there has to be line between those who are ready to go to ranked and who aren’t. I can’t imagine any other way than decent pvp level. Recent days have proven, that lvl 20 is a joke.

Pls stop the drama…4 years worth of material, gigabyte worth of videos, esl player streams…if a new/pver wants to really learn PvP…there is much material around, stop with the excuses.

Players from raid will tell new players to go and watch guides, after that they ask you to have exp..before gaining any.

Truth is the devs prioritise pve over pvp, as such there are no restrictions….anybody can join pvp and screw everybody else

Supreme.3164:

Truth is the devs prioritise pve over pvp, as such there are no restrictions….anybody can join pvp and screw everybody else

This is subjective. When glorious armor came out the argument was the complete opposite, with pve players complaining that PVP got game mode specific rewards. I don’t think they prioritize either, but at some times misjudge how willing some of those players screaming “I will only play pve and how dare you not give me all the shinies for playing the game mode I like” are to jump right into PVP if the prize is good enough.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Supreme.3164:

Truth is the devs prioritise pve over pvp, as such there are no restrictions….anybody can join pvp and screw everybody else

This is subjective. When glorious armor came out the argument was the complete opposite, with pve players complaining that PVP got game mode specific rewards. I don’t think they prioritize either, but at some times misjudge how willing some of those players screaming “I will only play pve and how dare you not give me all the shinies for playing the game mode I like” are to jump right into PVP if the prize is good enough.

Problem is that you can jump into pvp from pve or wvw anytime, as soon as reward is better….but you can’t jump to pve or wvw instantly, you need gear, without gear you’re not welcome. I am already boicoting this season by simply “farming” the reward…sadly, my teammates suffer.

ziggystardust.3721:

I am already boicoting this season by simply “farming” the reward…sadly, my teammates suffer.

Don’t think you understand the concept of boycott.

Justine.6351:

ziggystardust.3721:

I am already boicoting this season by simply “farming” the reward…sadly, my teammates suffer.

Don’t think you understand the concept of boycott.

this made me lol. So true

Nightshade.2570:

Justine.6351:

ziggystardust.3721:

I am already boicoting this season by simply “farming” the reward…sadly, my teammates suffer.

Don’t think you understand the concept of boycott.

this made me lol. So true

Same lol

sigh—It’s not that I hate PvE players, it’s that they’re rewarded at PvP’s and its players’ expense. That being said, it’s not their fault. ANet rewarded them constantly and didn’t focus enough on PvP. PvE players aren’t incentivized to PvP, they’re incentivized to farm PvE gear.

First, ANet brought them in with the legendary backpack for seasons 1-4. Now, they’re brought in with ascended armor. They also get 1200 mmr when they start ranked for the first time.

PvE players need to be brought into PvP the right way. Don’t just reward them for coming. Give them incentives to PvP. Give them tools to learn. Give them a good league system, balance. Give them the tools to have fun. Give them a freakin tutorial which is way overdue. The best thing to do, at least at first, is to put rewards in unranked.

Wouldn’t an easy fix be to lock ranked until the person reaches level 60 or something in pvp?

No, because you can farm pvp ranks with selfmade arenas.

- necessary changes: no pvp daily in custom made arena, no rank gains without participating in ranked or unranked
- resetting the mmr every season (players without any ranked experience start with 0, the others with 1000)

I don’t think it’s necessarily a new player thing, and more of a competitive season breeds massive amounts of salt.

Just right now, my game got stuck in map selection. I knew it wasn’t lag since everything else was responding. So i decide to relog to see if it fixes it. Next thing i know i land right in a match i didn’t even know started. I get berated by two teammates as if i killed their mother or something despite me not even knowing i was in a match.

People are just really really salty during pvp leagues.

ziggystardust.3721:

Nightshade.2570:

Normally I just silently read posts and move on, only commenting from time to time.
However, I want to comment on a growing trend that I am seeing.

First off, I would like to ask you, how do you know for certain that someone is a pve player. When it is the intended goal of Anet to get people to balance and play across all game modes, there are very few players that never set foot in WvW or PvE and only play PvP these days. Now, alot of us like me, love PvP and play it the most, as in I play it most every night of the week and only branch out from time to time.

However, you have to stop blaming the quality of your matches on pve players. It might be a bad day for some, it might be something you are doing, it might of been a bad roll of the dice. Any one of these three are the actual reasons, your match was lost.

Secondly, new players are the lifeblood of every game mode. You were new once and I am sure you didnt appreciate being referred to in a derogatory manner due to your newness. Most new players know they are not that great yet, and are in fact trying to learn.

If you want to make a change in how things are matched, how things are managed in PvP my suggestion is you turn this anger and hate to constructive criticism that will actually help minimize blow out matches and improve the quality of matches for new and Vet players. You could also offer to help someone who is a suspected PvEer or New player….

first, how to find out if someone new? You just block him and check AP. I had many games with players under 1k AP, playing more difficult classes. What they do? They run to enemy blob and die instantly. Do you think it’s fair towards long time pvpers? To lose a game because some newbie just giving points away? There is unranked, then random arenas, go learn, then play ranked, however (now including me) everybody simply farming ascended armor. Anet had good idea, sadly they * it up as aleways just by being to lazy to think deeper. PVP is now PVE, you just farm ascended armor.

I wish people would stop trying to use AP alone as some sort of “proof” of how new the player/account is..
You realise that you could spend 4 years playing nothing but PvP, and be at a maximum of 1,736 AP (atleast that’s the total currently available from PvP achievements)? And that’s with playing ALL classes, if you stick to 1 or 2 you’d have way less. And WvW for 4 years would net you 809… Means you can’t play or can’t possibly know your class?
You can of course argue that you add the “badness” of the player to the equation, and sure, this points towards a newer player/non-PvP player, but it’s absolutely not definitive proof.. I know plenty of people that have played for a long time, and are still not good at what they do, just as I know plenty of people that pick up on everything super fast and are really good in a short period of time.
All you can tell for sure is that someone with a large ammount of AP has played for a long time and/or been a real grinder, in probably all game modes. Low AP proves nothing.

Also, why are you checking people’s AP instead of actually playing and focusing on the match you’re trying to win? :P

Twigifire.8379:

Wouldn’t an easy fix be to lock ranked until the person reaches level 60 or something in pvp?

I believe they already require you to reach rank 20 to participate. It would make more sense to prevent rank gains from Custom Arena though, and only reward it from Unranked so people actually learn the real “layout” of what Ranked will be like.

Isn’t the whole point of the new divisions to filter out people into their “proper” place based on their skill? I seem to have basically stabilized around mid Silver (which is where I was expecting to be), and while I still get blowout matches from time to time, on the whole I find myself facing players roughly around my same skill level.

The one time I dropped down to Bronze early in the season though… Man, that was an eye-opener. There were teams who never bothered capping home, a lot of off-point fighting, some truly bizarre builds (like a vanilla Warrior who basically just camped Longbow), and there was even one guy who I’m certain wasn’t even wearing an amulet, based on how fast he died against me (and I’m not running the burstiest of builds). How such a player even made it to Dolyak rank is beyond me!

I really want to start bronze next season and break out the pubstomper spawn camping.

Gwaihir.1745:

I really want to start bronze next season and break out the pubstomper spawn camping.

That was my intention but somehow going 5/5 placed me in gold. The one and only season I played seriously was 2 and that was only to diamond.

Konakona.4130:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Oi, i never bothered with guides either yet at the moment i feel very powerful against most DH’s in point fights.

Guides aren’t the be all end all for everything in every game.

Who cares about your ability or inability to kill DH? I don’t even care if temmates cannot kill them or kill them fast enough; guides and some basic sanity is needed for understanting the situation in the game and on the map; like rotation and stuff like that. It is much more important imho.

My point is that guides are not needed.
They can help, they are an option, but not everyone needs a guide to understand basic stuff about a very simple game or gamemode.

Would it be a good idea to remove rewards from ranked and let ranked be pride only?
Put all the rewards on unranked and lose any reward on ranked.

Your PVE players play for rewards. That is why they go to ranked. Remove the rewards and put them on unranked. I would gladly queue for unranked when I play for rewards and let the “pro” players trash it out in ranked.

(just dont complain that queue times will be long again… we had that last season)

Nightshade.2570:

Normally I just silently read posts and move on, only commenting from time to time.
However, I want to comment on a growing trend that I am seeing.

First off, I would like to ask you, how do you know for certain that someone is a pve player. When it is the intended goal of Anet to get people to balance and play across all game modes, there are very few players that never set foot in WvW or PvE and only play PvP these days. Now, alot of us like me, love PvP and play it the most, as in I play it most every night of the week and only branch out from time to time.

However, you have to stop blaming the quality of your matches on pve players. It might be a bad day for some, it might be something you are doing, it might of been a bad roll of the dice. Any one of these three are the actual reasons, your match was lost.

Secondly, new players are the lifeblood of every game mode. You were new once and I am sure you didnt appreciate being referred to in a derogatory manner due to your newness. Most new players know they are not that great yet, and are in fact trying to learn.

If you want to make a change in how things are matched, how things are managed in PvP my suggestion is you turn this anger and hate to constructive criticism that will actually help minimize blow out matches and improve the quality of matches for new and Vet players. You could also offer to help someone who is a suspected PvEer or New player….

O man…. u know in paper everything sounds nice and easy, but in reality its not so easy, because they are new but they dont go unranked, making then a mess in ranked games AND if u say anything the reply u get are always ofensive and they always know better.
So i not even bother trying to help any 1, unless they ask ifc.

Justine.6351:

ziggystardust.3721:

I am already boicoting this season by simply “farming” the reward…sadly, my teammates suffer.

Don’t think you understand the concept of boycott.

He understands the concept as well as he can spell the word.

Considering the sheer volume of threads and posts complaining about new players and their lack of knowledge (and/or skill). I’m supposed the request for tutorial thread hasn’t had a better response.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PVP-Needs-Tutorial-pls-comment-if-agree

zealex.9410:

Nightshade.2570:

Sooloo.1364:

I have no problem with new players, as long as they stay in unranked until they learn to actually play. And as far as knowing who is new, when 4 guys are capping home at the start of a round it’s a good guess they’re new. And trying to teach them mid ranked game is more frustrating than it should be. They dont listen.

To some degree I agree with you, I often get frustrated with team mates and I groan inside when I know I have a very new player on my team. However, I understand they want the rewards that come from playing in ranked. I was lucky I had a mentor to teach me pvp, and I have tried to pass that on, I just wish more people would recognize that its not the fault of the new person necessarily as an outcome of the game rewards and matchmaking.

arena net needs to add a mentor feature for pvp it wont hurt anyone and it will make pvp players better.

Thats it Zealex. Far be it from me to not offer up a solution when complaining to Arena Net about their game. I always try to give a constructive criticism and a few good ideas.

In any case, you inspired me Zealex that is the exact thinking.
What if there was a LFG where people could mentor up, Or a system like that where An experienced player could volunteer to play with a new player. Both parties getting something unique like an achievement title or something like that, maybe a bit of gold. NOTHING HUGE, just to encourage both sides of the fence. The mentor side could only queue up based on a minimum number of games and rating, and the newer players could only queue up for it after they complete a tutorial and have less then X number of games accountwide.

A Mentor LFG would be nice, specifically for parties of two. This could even be a requirement before entering ranked.

Really like the Mentor idea. It is so hard during a match to type, fight and teach.

We just came up with another idea. Add an NPC mode where you can fight the NPCs from Stronghold. That would be super cool to fight Nikka and Tybalt!

Nightshade.2570:

zealex.9410:

Nightshade.2570:

Sooloo.1364:

I have no problem with new players, as long as they stay in unranked until they learn to actually play. And as far as knowing who is new, when 4 guys are capping home at the start of a round it’s a good guess they’re new. And trying to teach them mid ranked game is more frustrating than it should be. They dont listen.

To some degree I agree with you, I often get frustrated with team mates and I groan inside when I know I have a very new player on my team. However, I understand they want the rewards that come from playing in ranked. I was lucky I had a mentor to teach me pvp, and I have tried to pass that on, I just wish more people would recognize that its not the fault of the new person necessarily as an outcome of the game rewards and matchmaking.

arena net needs to add a mentor feature for pvp it wont hurt anyone and it will make pvp players better.

Thats it Zealex. Far be it from me to not offer up a solution when complaining to Arena Net about their game. I always try to give a constructive criticism and a few good ideas.

In any case, you inspired me Zealex that is the exact thinking.
What if there was a LFG where people could mentor up, Or a system like that where An experienced player could volunteer to play with a new player. Both parties getting something unique like an achievement title or something like that, maybe a bit of gold. NOTHING HUGE, just to encourage both sides of the fence. The mentor side could only queue up based on a minimum number of games and rating, and the newer players could only queue up for it after they complete a tutorial and have less then X number of games accountwide.

A Mentor LFG would be nice, specifically for parties of two. This could even be a requirement before entering ranked.

How do you teach people who have no intentions on learning. That are there just to grind high tier’d PvE gear via PvP Ranked Leagues? Simple you can’t. You can’t reason with them because their nothing to reason with. They simply just want their ascended set the easy way and they are gone. They don’t give one cares about how many matches they have to lose to get it. Just as long as it’s easier and faster to get through this route. Which btw kills any and all semblance of a compeititive scene yet again.

Simple solution. Get rid of ALL pve rewards from pvp. Reward people for only winning matches if that the only way you are going to let PvPers advance. I mean come on get real just think about it.

PvEers don’t have to compete just spam matches for rewards while, the PvPers that are trying to compete have to completely carry the lowest of the low trash tier player(Players who are just their to get gear and not win) in order to advance. Yet people at the higher tier’s did not have to go through this at all. Sounds pretty counter intuitive don’kitten

So who is Season 5 Leagues truly for? From my eyes it’s just another grind for ascended gear without actually having to do PvE, for the PvEers who can’t be asked to gain their ascended gear via the gold and time gates in PvE.

Reaper Alim.4176:

So who is Season 5 Leagues truly for? From my eyes it’s just another grind for ascended gear without actually having to do PvE, for the PvEers who can’t be asked to gain their ascended gear via the gold and time gates in PvE.

Maybe it’s for the WvW:ers that want that Ascened gear (PvP:ers don’t give a crap, stats don’t matter anyway) but don’t want to touch the “plague that is PvE”?
Most semi serious PvE:ers already got way past the time gates for Ascended Gear ages ago.. And people that started the game a couple of months ago aren’t all that likely to be aiming for Ascended gear already, more likely working on decking toons out in Exotics.
Atleast those of my friends that started playing in the last year and are going for Ascended, aren’t even thinking of doing PvP for it.. not with having to grind Rank 20 to even enter the Ranked to begin with. xD