Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

I understand that also it is no longer an invulnerability and it is no longer 20% of the time thanks to the its most recent nerf. And you want to talk about mass amounts of clutter? In this case mesmers are the least responsible party. I know of rangers/necros/engis/thieves that use spirits, minions, turrets, and thieves guild/ambush for this exact reason to clutter the field. When it comes to that issue you have more than one culprit to be sure. Also iZerker has been bugged for months and they just barely fixed it any mesmer that uses it is most likely glass… Also thanks to the recent nerf to iCelerity all mesmer summons that aren’t in a shatter build now have a defacto 20% longer cool down which is no small matter. Also thanks to the blurred frenzy nerf one simple “stand your ground” in a team fight will make that mesmer eat so much retal damage their blurred/mindwrack combo actually entails some more risk than it has previously done.

Also phantasms are mesmers only source of direct damage outside of shatters. Blurred frenzy damage still sucks when compared to weapon attacks on well anyone except necro/engi (which have the condi damage to make up for it.) And blurred frenzy is not necessary to give 40% protection uptime there are other ways for mesmers to get good prot uptime but these sacrifice all their damage in order to pull off.
Lastly a full shatter combo also generally requires the use of at least one utility (maybe two) if we are talking about the 20/20/0/0/30 build. If it is a 0/20/20/0/30 then it is less about shatter and more about interrupts which trust me are still extremely difficult builds to make viable. The shatter spec has gotten its nerf this patch with the blurred frenzy nerf… It doesn’t require more. j

On topic warriors need better defense (mind you not much it isn’t as bad as people would have us think)
And the new necro buffs need some tweaks because no class can keep up with the amount of condi spam they are bringin.

Ah, but once again you completely ignore the cost for doing such. Cluttering the field with minions/turrets/spirits? All these things have something in common, that being they are utilities. A mesmer just does this innately as part of his… yes, class mechanics. That doesn’t mean that the other classes don’t clutter the field though.

I accept that the hit that I made a mistake with blurred frenzy being an evade now, but it still doesn’t address how they are immune to cc while executing their burst combo while a Warr once again needs to expend one of their extremely limited utility slots for Endure Pain AND Dolyak/Balanced Stance to achieve the exact same effect. Cost-Reward ratio. Blurred Frenzy also only hits 4 times! I completely fail to see how this is significantly more painful that say an engie’s grenades giving him 3x retal damage from a mob of people with retal up. Or a Warrior’s Flurry which does 12 hits in the exact same frontal arc, or heck even 100b. All these skills have the exact same drawback when it comes to retal, pointing out that BF now follows the same rules like it’s some kind of significant nerf seems really pointless.

And what is the utility that the Shatter combo requires? You have a gap closer, stun, immob, all on your weapon skills with a maximum of 25s CD. Please give more details on that.

Also please stop saying that the nerf to iCelerity makes “mesmer summons that aren’t in a shatter build now have a defacto 20% longer cool down”, it just constantly reinforces how you have been so amazingly accustomed to having such an amazingly good trait so easily available to you. This is what your cooldowns normally look like. I would kill for a trait that reduced all my gap closing skill cooldowns by 20% that stacked with traits that reduced weapon cooldowns. Not that MH sword has a trait like that.

The thing is all mesmer summons were previously nerfed as far as CD is concerned because EVERY MESMER BUILD TOOK ICELERITY! We accepted those nerfs because we had the trait to compensate now only shatter mesmers have the trait…
Also the retal part is because blurred frenzy is wait for it… CLEAVING! Also mindwrack has an AOE radius so anyone in the target area that has retal up hits the mesmer again so any guardian on a point with stand your ground can make mesmers have an uber bad day now that we are no longer immune to retal. And we also have NO evades outside of that (we can still be feared during phase retreat and are still targetable when we blink) the utility that shatter combo requires is usually mirror images (if the mesmer is 20/20/0/0/30) because it is preceeded by diversion and must be immediately followed by mindwrack to be effective there for it requires at least one uitility skill to be effective and the use of a stun break.

The blurred frenzy nerf is significant because mesmers (GC) don’t have the condi clearing (that’s right GC warr vs GC mes the warr has better condi cleanse) high armor or mobility (kinda like you have charge/Whirlwhind etc) to escape once they are pinned down. Keep in mind that now that iZerker is fixed most mesmers are giving up the staff for the GS which has ZERO escape mechanisms….
I’m not disagreeing with you on the warrior needing love.
I am disagreeing with you that all 7 classes should be “dumbed down” to make the warrior viable. That is just silly.

Jackums.3496:

More bad player QQ about the Mesmer. If you’re still having difficulty due to “illusion clutter”, I think it’s a problem with player skill rather than class mechanics.

Thank you for glancing through a wall of text, cherry picking one specific offhand mentioning of clutter, then strawmanning it to try and trivialize every other point. And no, I’ve never had a problem “picking out the real mesmer”.

Honestly I think the ranger got it the worst. At least they tried to give the other classes more specs to play around with, but rangers really only received a nerf surrounded by a few aftercast delays, mostly on the weakest competitive weapon currently available to them.

I mean, you can’t nerf the entire pet mechanic (which makes up ~40% of the damage output), take an autoattack and make it shoot a quarter second faster (while nerfing the other ranged weapons range) and call it a good balance for that class.

Really, the most competitive thing that could be done at this point is removing the “always on” feature of the pet entirely, then having the ranger use their F1 to summon them into battle with a cooldown if they get killed, or if the ranger leaves combat. Obviously damages and stuff need to be adjusted, but whoever thought implementing an always on AI controlled RNG pet that does almost half of a classes damage while the player can just build defensively and evade stuff is out of their minds.

Besides that, Engis got it pretty rough with this last patch too, and simple changes really did leave them less viable than before by taking away some of the best features of their strongest defensive utilities, and removing a lot of the synergy of their slot options.

jportell.2197:

The thing is all mesmer summons were previously nerfed as far as CD is concerned because EVERY MESMER BUILD TOOK ICELERITY! We accepted those nerfs because we had the trait to compensate now only shatter mesmers have the trait…
Also the retal part is because blurred frenzy is wait for it… CLEAVING! Also mindwrack has an AOE radius so anyone in the target area that has retal up hits the mesmer again so any guardian on a point with stand your ground can make mesmers have an uber bad day now that we are no longer immune to retal. And we also have NO evades outside of that (we can still be feared during phase retreat and are still targetable when we blink) the utility that shatter combo requires is usually mirror images (if the mesmer is 20/20/0/0/30) because it is preceeded by diversion and must be immediately followed by mindwrack to be effective there for it requires at least one uitility skill to be effective and the use of a stun break.

The blurred frenzy nerf is significant because mesmers (GC) don’t have the condi clearing (that’s right GC warr vs GC mes the warr has better condi cleanse) high armor or mobility (kinda like you have charge/Whirlwhind etc) to escape once they are pinned down. Keep in mind that now that iZerker is fixed most mesmers are giving up the staff for the GS which has ZERO escape mechanisms….
I’m not disagreeing with you on the warrior needing love.
I am disagreeing with you that all 7 classes should be “dumbed down” to make the warrior viable. That is just silly.

Mesmer will always be stupidly strong strong due to huge amount of escape mechanics, large damage on shatter and more importantly they use something no other class in the game can. What is that? they confuse IRL, constantly switching positions with clones that move erratically because they do different things and possible are on different targets. If there’s other people around and all the other pets and minions it becomes very hard to keep track of the mesmer and they become stupidly OP. Its basically the same principle as putting a dice under a cup and having 4 cups and mixing them around.
Its like they attack the player directly…equivalant of blind making your screen go black.

Conan.8046:

jportell.2197:

The thing is all mesmer summons were previously nerfed as far as CD is concerned because EVERY MESMER BUILD TOOK ICELERITY! We accepted those nerfs because we had the trait to compensate now only shatter mesmers have the trait…
Also the retal part is because blurred frenzy is wait for it… CLEAVING! Also mindwrack has an AOE radius so anyone in the target area that has retal up hits the mesmer again so any guardian on a point with stand your ground can make mesmers have an uber bad day now that we are no longer immune to retal. And we also have NO evades outside of that (we can still be feared during phase retreat and are still targetable when we blink) the utility that shatter combo requires is usually mirror images (if the mesmer is 20/20/0/0/30) because it is preceeded by diversion and must be immediately followed by mindwrack to be effective there for it requires at least one uitility skill to be effective and the use of a stun break.

The blurred frenzy nerf is significant because mesmers (GC) don’t have the condi clearing (that’s right GC warr vs GC mes the warr has better condi cleanse) high armor or mobility (kinda like you have charge/Whirlwhind etc) to escape once they are pinned down. Keep in mind that now that iZerker is fixed most mesmers are giving up the staff for the GS which has ZERO escape mechanisms….
I’m not disagreeing with you on the warrior needing love.
I am disagreeing with you that all 7 classes should be “dumbed down” to make the warrior viable. That is just silly.

Mesmer will always be stupidly strong strong due to huge amount of escape mechanics, large damage on shatter and more importantly they use something no other class in the game can. What is that? they confuse IRL, constantly switching positions with clones that move erratically because they do different things and possible are on different targets. If there’s other people around and all the other pets and minions it becomes very hard to keep track of the mesmer and they become stupidly OP. Its basically the same principle as putting a dice under a cup and having 4 cups and mixing them around.
Its like they attack the player directly…equivalant of blind making your screen go black.

Large damage on shatter? So i am guessing bunker builds like the chaos boon support tank my protection build (916 power btw) and pyros immortal build just burst for insane amounts every shatter no matter what? We we have 3 reliable escape mechanisms (Phase Retretat/Blink/Decoy) and rarely in a tournament setting will you see mesmers with all three. And minion mancers+engi supply crate are 10x worse on the midpoint fight at the start of the match for clutter than any mesmer could do on their own (actually minion mancer is worse to begin with). Edit: And to say that they confuse IRL is kinda sad. Any good player that has a sense of NPC movement will tell you how easy mesmer is to spot.

Large damage on shatter? So i am guessing bunker builds like the chaos boon support tank my protection build (916 power btw) and pyros immortal build just burst for insane amounts every shatter no matter what? We we have 3 reliable escape mechanisms (Phase Retretat/Blink/Decoy) and rarely in a tournament setting will you see mesmers with all three. And minion mancers+engi supply crate are 10x worse on the midpoint fight at the start of the match for clutter than any mesmer could do on their own (actually minion mancer is worse to begin with). Edit: And to say that they confuse IRL is kinda sad. Any good player that has a sense of NPC movement will tell you how easy mesmer is to spot.

Stupid arguement. If it was a duel sure you can pick out the mesmer fairly easy. Its not a duel, there are a lot of other things going on aswell as other minions and people running around. However you will tell me that you can find 1 in 4 and track the movement instantly? despite the fact he can stealth your saying you can stay on him like you would a warrior. Thief mechanics are very predictable hes gone into stealth he will reappear in 3 seconds and either attack you or run depending on the situation.

Suppy drop is fairly mediocre. I don’t know why you would complain about that. Polymorph someone for 10 seconds making them completely useless is however OP.

It also eliminates one of the mesmers ability to stealth (making them easier targets) also if 4 people focus u while in moa they would have focused you anyways and also you cam you know call target on the mesmer and pick em out for more than half yr team if he isn’t dead in 5s after that then your team doesn’t have enough dps or condition pressure overall (then u got bigger problems) Also supply drop not only is an AOE stun but it provides conditons AOE healing and CC. Moa has also been reworked and is more "user"friendly

Mesmers actually aren’t the worst culprits for low tells and risk – reward. I would almost say they are the next closest after a warrior, maybe guardian beforehand. Though that depends on the spec. High condi specs with staff clones putting out the majority of the damage, no. Phantasm specs, obviously no.

Mesmers just have conflicting mechanics. Shatter spec promotes more in-fighting which requires a high amount of escapes. Still they probably have a bit too much in this regard. ~3.5 second between dodges on top of the other escapes. Then the immob on swap really doesn’t need to last 2 seconds.

Then they have more of the evasive specs that have accumulative range damage. At that point the number of escapes become way out of line for what they are doing. But actual tournaments are time based so these don’t pop up much but none the less are still unhealthy.

The immob on swap is more telegraphed than necros dagger 3 and also the blurred frenzy has been nerfed with an increased CD which means less shatter combos I honestly cant remember the last time me or anyone on my team got stuck in the immob from swap tho

Until you play a warrior, youd don’t know what “telegraphed” means…XD

Joking, but really, 90% of core warrior’s skill are screaming “DODGE MEEEEEEE!”
XD

(or even just “walk away”)

redslion.9675:

Until you play a warrior, youd don’t know what “telegraphed” means…XD

Joking, but really, 90% of core warrior’s skill are screaming “DODGE MEEEEEEE!”
XD

(or even just “walk away”)

Oh this I know… However people saying they have no clue how to avoid blurred frenzy… Just really? It is likely one of the worst skills in the game for pathing. Any slight incline ensures that the clone stands in one spot for a second then he kinda lollygags over to his target then we can maybe swap and do the combo if our target hasn’t figured out by know that we are about to burst them…. The 2s immob for the burst is knid of our reward for the off chance of having it actually work.

jportell.2197:

redslion.9675:

Until you play a warrior, youd don’t know what “telegraphed” means…XD

Joking, but really, 90% of core warrior’s skill are screaming “DODGE MEEEEEEE!”
XD

(or even just “walk away”)

Oh this I know… However people saying they have no clue how to avoid blurred frenzy… Just really? It is likely one of the worst skills in the game for pathing. Any slight incline ensures that the clone stands in one spot for a second then he kinda lollygags over to his target then we can maybe swap and do the combo if our target hasn’t figured out by know that we are about to burst them…. The 2s immob for the burst is knid of our reward for the off chance of having it actually work.

Sorry, I just used the occasion to whine and make fun of one of the classes I play.XD

I must say I have never learnt do dodge the leap, but I think I learnt to live with it. Or, at least, it’s not the reason I lose against mesmer.

jportell.2197:

Oh this I know… However people saying they have no clue how to avoid blurred frenzy… Just really? It is likely one of the worst skills in the game for pathing. Any slight incline ensures that the clone stands in one spot for a second then he kinda lollygags over to his target then we can maybe swap and do the combo if our target hasn’t figured out by know that we are about to burst them…. The 2s immob for the burst is knid of our reward for the off chance of having it actually work.

Well the pathing bugs need to be fixed and is hardly an excuse. The thing is it has a similar role to bulls charge but on 1/5th the cd. With that in mind it is more of how the skill forces defensive cds because it leads so perfectly into a full burst. So right now the reward of landing a 40s cd and a 7.75s cd skill with a comparable delay is fairly similar, hardly enough to make up for cd difference and the consequent load that puts on an opponents defensive resources.