Guild Wars 2

Currently, everyone knows that the Q times within the MMR system has become a holistic problem across just about every division. I’m here to describe the system the way I perceive it to be and open discussion for people to talk about new or better solutions to the MMR system to decrease the Q times and increase the competitiveness of games (closer scores). Players with large winning streaks and large losing streaks might be able to relate to the topic better that players close to a 50/50 win/loss.
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Perceived Current Matchmaking System:
As of now, the system takes 5 players with similar MMR and places them againest 5 players that are just below/above that groups’ MMR. Unfortunately, this system of matching players together creates complete 1-sided matches because the player pool is way too low, causing the variance between skill levels measured by the respected players’ MMR to be too high. What this means is that because there are not as many players playing PvP, the game struggles to find 2 groups of 5 players with similiar MMR (hence the Q times), and when the match is made the MMRs of both teams are so far apart that the outcome of the game has nearly been predetermined by the grouping. However, this system would become optimized as the player pool size increases, decreasing the variance between MMR and skill level. This would in turn make the game score outcomes closer and players wouldn’t be as likely to be stuck in MMR heaven/hell. The current system simply doesn’t work in an environment where the player pool is too low, but becomes increasingly better as there are more players to pull from.

The stacked MMR is a problem in itself, but when you incorporate naturally long Q times, this discourages other players to play, decreasing the pool again, which increases the MMR variance (see the cycle?).

I do feel that the way I perceive the current system is justified in the fact at the top tier of play I continue to get the same teammates on my team and the games are so uneven, that I get closer games in unranked. In the same spectrum, I hear from players that continually lose 500-100(-).
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Improved Matchmaking System (?)
My idea of a better system would be to create a matchmaking system that minimizes the biasness of the player pool and skill variance of players. A system that would ultimately decrease Q times and increase the competitiveness of games (closer scores). An improved system would be one that maybe prioritizes a player or a group of players that have had the longest Q times, find the remaining 9 players around that player’s MMR range and shuffle the 10 players into 2 teams of 5.
As an example the current numbers representative of MMR:
Current System Search: (1,7,5,12,8) & (-2,-5,-15,-1,-7)
Improved System Search(?): (-2,1,7,-5,-15,12,-1,8,-7,5)

The current system searches 2 strings of 5 characters in close proximity to each other while a better system searches for 10 players around the same MMR range and shuffles the teams into 2 teams, creating 2 teams that are more balanced. The teams could be randomized or they could have the same average MMR rating. If the improved system works the way I believe it should, the Q times should definitely be decreased as the system prioritizes those players to place into matches and increases the closeness of the game. In season 1 the system seemed worked a bit like this, but even if it didn’t, the player pool was much larger so that the average player’s win/loss was much near 50/50 since the skill variance between 2 teams were much less. This system was good but at the same time division climbing was based much more on how long you played, not how skilled you were as a player. Season 3 current system is much more based on skill than time played, but at the same time it’s not fun for the players who continue to lose in MMR hell.
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As of now I do understand that the player base has been dwindling since there is;
- long Q times
- lack of leaderboard rewards
- poor guild challenger rewards
- lack of pvp map content
- previous season imbalanced professions
- low player pools with high MMR variances, creating 1-sided matches

I do not think an improved matchmaking system would ultimately salvage PvP, but I definitely do believe it would decrease the rate at which players leave the game.

The Matchmaker doesn’t look at MMR when picking 10 people it only looks at pip range, then once it has the 10 people selected they place people in each team based on MMR, the queue times are long for the outlying Divisions due to Anet artificially forcing people that don’t belong in upper divisions into Ruby, leaving Emerald and below and Diamond and above with longer than normal queue times, now this is even more exasperated by the very small pvp population.

ANET attempted contradictory goals.

The legendary reward was intended to bring in new blood. Not a bad idea at all. The reward was set up to require multiple seasons of participation. Also, good idea.

The counter idea was “competitive” matchmaking. Without getting into that too far, it created something like a Ponzi scheme. One section of the population was more or less “fed” and advanced rapidly by the rest. When the supply of feeders dried up, the system showed it’s flaws.

I understand the desire for “hard core” pvp. This game doesn’t have the player base to support that.

If I were in charge at ANET; There’d be a public “Mea Culpa” on stream and in the forums. Then matchmaking would be reset to create as close to even matches as reasonably possible. Solo queue would return to the game. Any shiny would be purely reward track. Finally there’d be a game – wide MMR reset.

Yes, even matches would result in complaints that players have teammates they regard as unskilled or opponents they regard as too skilled. That’s happening now, so there’d be no net loss.

Queue times might be high, but they are high now. Again, no net loss.

There would be complaints that people who “earned” high mmr were more-or-less ripped off by a reset. I think at least a slight majority would benefit, so this is an acceptable decision.

It would be said that there was no prestige to a reward track item. Well, honestly there’s not much prestige to Legendary rank or the wings now. It’s very well known that people were carried by MMR and/or teams. Here, again, no net loss.

Take care of the “filthy casuals” and they will come and support the game. Trounce them repeatedly and they will go find something else to do… simple.

the actual solution is to focus on making pvp fun, then worry about mmr and esports

if u make things fun, people will come, then you can try to worry about mmr and esports

Jaxom.7310:

the actual solution is to focus on making pvp fun, then worry about mmr and esports

if u make things fun, people will come, then you can try to worry about mmr and esports

You keep using the words MMR and esports, but I don’t think you quite understand what they mean.

Better balance would make the combat more fun, but better balance won’t make matchups more fun.

Vicky.4563:

Jaxom.7310:

the actual solution is to focus on making pvp fun, then worry about mmr and esports

if u make things fun, people will come, then you can try to worry about mmr and esports

You keep using the words MMR and esports, but I don’t think you quite understand what they mean.

Better balance would make the combat more fun, but better balance won’t make matchups more fun.

i think u misunderstand.

focus on making the game fun, then focus on matchmaking, then focus on esports.

when the game is fun, people will play it. when more people play it, u will reduce the q time and have a bigger pool of people to make matches for. when u have a bigger pool of people making matches you will have add’l good people playing, when you have add’l good people playing you will have more exciting and diverse games (not the same ~20 people playing each other for $$), once the games are more exciting and diverse you can focus on esports

For now how about players are NOT ALLOWED AT ALL to queue up for Ranked till they reach “PvP lvl 80.” Atleast we get rid of some of the newer players that feel self entitled to waste others players efforts.

I mean going into Ranked completely new and unaware of how to play pvp, is in my opinion worst then the players that just stop giving their all in lost caused matches. These players in conjunction with ANet’s MMS, are the cause of most of the problems. Not saying by keeping them out will completely fix that situation but it’s keep a good amount of players from queue up for Ranked after only 10 or 15 matches in unranked. And not knowing or having a single clue how the flow of the match persists. Or any experience on how to play atleast 2 classes let alone their main class and counter other players efficiently.

I mean I’m far from good but when I’m the only person on my team that, don’t run in all hero like just to insta die to the enemy team Ad Infinite, there is a problem and clearly those players have no business in Ranked PvP mode at all. Most other games I play now for competitive and fun PvP will not even let you queue into their Ranked PvP system till you invested many many many games in unranked first and I’m talking weeks if not months of playing. And it helps a lot, and would be a easy patch for ANet to implement, just raise the entry bar from pvp rank 20 to pvp rank 80.

Jaxom.7310:

Vicky.4563:

Jaxom.7310:

the actual solution is to focus on making pvp fun, then worry about mmr and esports

if u make things fun, people will come, then you can try to worry about mmr and esports

You keep using the words MMR and esports, but I don’t think you quite understand what they mean.

Better balance would make the combat more fun, but better balance won’t make matchups more fun.

i think u misunderstand.

focus on making the game fun, then focus on matchmaking, then focus on esports.

when the game is fun, people will play it. when more people play it, u will reduce the q time and have a bigger pool of people to make matches for. when u have a bigger pool of people making matches you will have add’l good people playing, when you have add’l good people playing you will have more exciting and diverse games (not the same ~20 people playing each other for $$), once the games are more exciting and diverse you can focus on esports

That makes sense and that’s something I agree with.

Unfortunately the team that works on class balance/new maps/“fun” is not the team that works with PvP matchmaking and league design.

“Fun” is not going to happen for the next 6 months. Matchmaking changes will.

Ithilwen.1529:

There would be complaints that people who “earned” high mmr were more-or-less ripped off by a reset. I think at least a slight majority would benefit, so this is an acceptable decision.

If someone can “earn” high mmr once, surely they can earn it again.

Vicky.4563:

Jaxom.7310:

Vicky.4563:

Jaxom.7310:

the actual solution is to focus on making pvp fun, then worry about mmr and esports

if u make things fun, people will come, then you can try to worry about mmr and esports

You keep using the words MMR and esports, but I don’t think you quite understand what they mean.

Better balance would make the combat more fun, but better balance won’t make matchups more fun.

i think u misunderstand.

focus on making the game fun, then focus on matchmaking, then focus on esports.

when the game is fun, people will play it. when more people play it, u will reduce the q time and have a bigger pool of people to make matches for. when u have a bigger pool of people making matches you will have add’l good people playing, when you have add’l good people playing you will have more exciting and diverse games (not the same ~20 people playing each other for $$), once the games are more exciting and diverse you can focus on esports

That makes sense and that’s something I agree with.

Unfortunately the team that works on class balance/new maps/“fun” is not the team that works with PvP matchmaking and league design.

“Fun” is not going to happen for the next 6 months. Matchmaking changes will.

i would mostly agree too. i don’t know why u put quotes on fun tho. i think u can objectively argue anet’s focus has not been on fun, but on their esports ambition.

as someone once said:

if fun was a goal of gw2 pvp, we would have:

soloq
tru tdm (that 1 map don’t count an u kno it)
dueling (at least in the hotm)
something (anything) to do while waiting on queue
random arena (gw1 style or similar)
other modes (2v2, 3v3 whatevs)
original hotjoin (8v8 10v10, something like alliance battles in gw1)
… prob forgetting something….

pt is, any or all of those things could add a level of fun for at least some people

rather than seeing any of these things, we see anet push esports and team queue for conquest

therefore, fun is not a part of the current goals/strategy for gw2 pvp

For that grind based ranked system, simply revert the Smurfing change in season 1.

Season 1 league where great (except that top players didn’t win too much, like they used to… it was great btw to get some competitions!).

The easy fix, is simply do a -1 pip on pip gains for people that have +2 divisions compare to their low division buddy.

This give the chance for genuine low division to reach their friends. And will remove Legendary players (that want to prestige up x20) to do ruby or less smurf.

But the real FIX to LEAGUE and bad matchmaking, is removing PIPS and DIVISONS and come back to a pure MMR based game. Like the most successful Overwatch do (that I think have perhaps some great gw1 game designer in their team).

Reaper Alim.4176:

For now how about players are NOT ALLOWED AT ALL to queue up for Ranked till they reach “PvP lvl 80.” Atleast we get rid of some of the newer players that feel self entitled to waste others players efforts.

This and get rid of many players to do second account to kill/farm newby in low divisions again.

The easiest fix, would be to change the starting mmr of new player that is around 50%+ to 25%. So new players have to work from bad to good, to be good.

Any genuine main account, have an easiest League progression with a new account (right now) with a Vanilla spec carried by his MMR in Amber to Ruby with wins streak, putting is MMR at High end to play ruby to legendary with not much difficulties (if you play correctly, of course).