Guild Wars 2

My Mesmer never used Illusionists Celerity anyway.

I used to think traits that reduced cooldowns were really good but I think the game is supposed to be balanced around NORMAL cooldowns.

If you can’t play the game with normal cooldowns then that’s a problem.

Sinnoda.2569:

jportell, you can still take that trait if you want. They didn’t take it out of the game, it’s in a different spot. “OMG, I have to change my build slightly?! MES IS RUINED!!!!”

Even if you don’t choose to take the trait now, will Mesmers be unviable and weak? Most definitely no. Get over it and move on.

No this nerf GUARANTEES that to have reasonable cooldowns mesmers will have NO CHOICE but to run IC which pretty much means all Mesmers will run shatter builds. Its not a slight changing of traits if it was moved to minor Master or even Major Master that would be “slight”…. But what this does is greatly destroy builds that do anything but rely on shattering illusions…. So now pretty much every mesmer is forced to run a shatter spec…. You guys got this nerf (which doesn’t even completely address the phantasm spec) GG. Great good for you. now stop with the effing mesmer whines.

Edit: Look at weapons like the GS/Sword/Torch mesmers have the longest cooldown of any class that uses these weapons. The only other class that is plagued with wayy to long of CDs is Eles but they have the advantage of using 20 diff weapons skills.

jportell.2197:

Sinnoda.2569:

jportell, you can still take that trait if you want. They didn’t take it out of the game, it’s in a different spot. “OMG, I have to change my build slightly?! MES IS RUINED!!!!”

Even if you don’t choose to take the trait now, will Mesmers be unviable and weak? Most definitely no. Get over it and move on.

No this nerf GUARANTEES that to have reasonable cooldowns mesmers will have NO CHOICE but to run IC which pretty much means all Mesmers will run shatter builds. Its not a slight changing of traits if it was moved to minor Master or even Major Master that would be “slight”…. But what this does is greatly destroy builds that do anything but rely on shattering illusions…. So now pretty much every mesmer is forced to run a shatter spec…. You guys got this nerf (which doesn’t even completely address the phantasm spec) GG. Great good for you. now stop with the effing mesmer whines.

Edit: Look at weapons like the GS/Sword/Torch mesmers have the longest cooldown of any class that uses these weapons. The only other class that is plagued with wayy to long of CDs is Eles but they have the advantage of using 20 diff weapons skills.

“You guys”? I main Mes friend. And I will be just fine after the “nerf”. It’s called adaptation. I guess we have to agree to disagree. I find these endless forum wars pointless. At the end of this argument however, I will continue to be happy with the new version of my Mes while you will be furiously posting on the forums. Sucks for you eh?

Sinnoda.2569:

jportell.2197:

Sinnoda.2569:

jportell, you can still take that trait if you want. They didn’t take it out of the game, it’s in a different spot. “OMG, I have to change my build slightly?! MES IS RUINED!!!!”

Even if you don’t choose to take the trait now, will Mesmers be unviable and weak? Most definitely no. Get over it and move on.

No this nerf GUARANTEES that to have reasonable cooldowns mesmers will have NO CHOICE but to run IC which pretty much means all Mesmers will run shatter builds. Its not a slight changing of traits if it was moved to minor Master or even Major Master that would be “slight”…. But what this does is greatly destroy builds that do anything but rely on shattering illusions…. So now pretty much every mesmer is forced to run a shatter spec…. You guys got this nerf (which doesn’t even completely address the phantasm spec) GG. Great good for you. now stop with the effing mesmer whines.

Edit: Look at weapons like the GS/Sword/Torch mesmers have the longest cooldown of any class that uses these weapons. The only other class that is plagued with wayy to long of CDs is Eles but they have the advantage of using 20 diff weapons skills.

“You guys”? I main Mes friend. And I will be just fine after the “nerf”. It’s called adaptation. I guess we have to agree to disagree. I find these endless forum wars pointless. At the end of this argument however, I will continue to be happy with the new version of my Mes while you will be furiously posting on the forums. Sucks for you eh?

I actually use all the traits for my weapons (except one already) and have a build in mind that will be a constant healer and more of a pain to kill (impossible) than the build currently is with the 5 points. I pride my builds on not using cookiecutter cheese specs and thinking outside the box. Take the build I am using now that does very good maximizing protection uptime (higher than ANY build of ANY class in this game) I just hope the buffs to things like prismatic understanding are true. I am just furious about this because phantasms AND clones have all had their summoning abilities nerfed several times in the past and it is still not enough. AnET is worried about “power creep” when doing buffs… But what about the downflow creep. I cringe everytime i see a nerf to classes i play that is unwarranted (necro, mes, thief, guard, ele, ranger, engi.)

Sinnoda: If this was just about randoms using any build they experimented with and adapting to class changes for hotjoin or random play, then sure you can be happy with this new version of mesmer.

But that’s not the issue. The issue is any viable tournament spec mesmer build HAS to take 25 points in illusions for this trait, or else are crippling themselves and teams realizing people with random ‘adapted’ specs are a handicap to their team.. and effectively replacing the meta with a different class and pushing mesmers out altogether from high end competitive play.

As posted, yes ofcourse people aren’t forced to trait this and do whatever they’d like, but part of the problem for competitive PVP has been the lack of diverse and viable builds for different classes, and soon more mesmers will realize if they want to be ‘good’ or do well in high end tPVP, they have no other option except to make sure they’re now a shatter spec.

I don’t think people are understanding why we’re even speaking up about this, everyone can agree they’d hope developers create a variety of balanced builds that could potentially be viable for tournament play, and when a particular build is broken then nerfs and buffs are warranted. But the only reason mesmers are speaking up is because this change had nothing to do with creating build diversity or making less popular specs more viable or useable. All they basically did was a blanket nerf on all mesmers without other options to compensate. (a new interrupt build? it’s going to be abandoned after 5 days once people realize how stupid those changes were)

to mesmers, it would feel like a nerf but in reality is simply toning down, all it would be doing is adding 4s to the rotation, but no builds would be affected by this change. and even some like shatter mesmers will be unaffected which already 90% of mesmers play by choise, and not because they have been corner down to playing 1 build like eles.

its all about balance, its not fair to any class to allow 1 class to shorten the recharge of their most powerful skills/utilities for only 5 points.

altho, the patch notes will most likely be fake. Personally i doubt Anet would ever have the guts to do this kinda of change to mesmers.

google.3709:

to mesmers, it would feel like a nerf but in reality is simply toning down, all it would be doing is adding 4s to the rotation, but no builds would be affected by this change. and even some like shatter mesmers will be unaffected which already 90% of mesmers play by choise, and not because they have been corner down to playing 1 build like eles.

its all about balance, its not fair to any class to allow 1 class to shorten the recharge of their only useful weapon skills for only 5 points.

There fixed that for you Considering that every skill outside of illusions was on a kittenedly long cooldown in our weapon sets… Anet really needs to do something to the base CD’s of illusions (which has been previously nerfed)

really ? so no other skills on the mesmer’s weapons are useful ? :/

Hallelujah! Praise God!

Phantasm mesmer build requires absolutely zero, zil, nilch, none, nada skill to play. You summon 3 phantasms and go afk while they blast people for 4k damage each.

If you think this build had any value or merit at all in the PVP world than you either sit in duel servers all day thinking you’re good because the computer kills people for you or you hotjoin tournaments hoping to get into a 1v1 on point and think you did something amazing for your team.

Plain and simple this build is so dumb my dog could play it. I’m sorry and no offense to the OP but if you relied on this build to feel like you were good in pvp then it’s high time you were forced into another build.

There is no other spec in the game that requires such a low skill level, nay I say, NO skill level to play. Summoning computer controlled AI that hits for 3-4k, auto attacks, auto faces and has about 5k hp requires neither skill, timing or anything other than a smash of the keyboard.

This is the greatest news I have read on the forums today! Weeeeeee it feels like Christmas and I asked Santa for a brand new shiny bike!

I wish you weren’t being such a drama queen about it, because you actually have a valid point. The trait did need a nerf, and phantasm mesmers might have too (although I don’t think so). The way in which it has been done does seem a little off though.

Should have been made a tier 2 major or moved to a different tree, if not completely replaced. Putting it where it is only going to be picked up by shatter mesmers destroys both diversity and synergy.

jportell.2197:

Edit: Look at weapons like the GS/Sword/Torch mesmers have the longest cooldown of any class that uses these weapons. The only other class that is plagued with wayy to long of CDs is Eles but they have the advantage of using 20 diff weapons skills.

Oh yes, poor mesmers with their cooldowns. Not even traited:
-25s on a 2s stun->daze->blind (bouncing, ranged)
-10s CD on a 2s evade (that also deals pretty good damage)
-12s on an immobilize/teleport

You’re so crippled by terrible cooldowns.

Big deal. So now I’ll take Restorative Mantras instead which will boost my healing by 50% and with Signet of Illusions fix my phantasms will stay around much longer.

If anything, as a whole, this patch is a buff for Phantasm Mesmers.

Sinnoda.2569:

jportell, you can still take that trait if you want. They didn’t take it out of the game, it’s in a different spot. “OMG, I have to change my build slightly?! MES IS RUINED!!!!”

Even if you don’t choose to take the trait now, will Mesmers be unviable and weak? Most definitely no. Get over it and move on.

You definitely dont have any idea of mesmers because of that bullkitten you are saying, its not an slightly change to mesmer builds, its a huge change, at least for non shatter builds.

google.3709:

really ? so no other skills on the mesmer’s weapons are useful ? :/

Not for the CD they have. Most Mesmer weapons untraited do not have a single skill that is under 10s and some of our higher skills that are support are in the 25-35 range. (staff) and then some weaponskills are just so useless they are never used anyways (mindstab GS… the entire scepter)

Jonwar.9205:

jportell.2197:

Edit: Look at weapons like the GS/Sword/Torch mesmers have the longest cooldown of any class that uses these weapons. The only other class that is plagued with wayy to long of CDs is Eles but they have the advantage of using 20 diff weapons skills.

Oh yes, poor mesmers with their cooldowns. Not even traited:
-25s on a 2s stun->daze->blind (bouncing, ranged)
-10s CD on a 2s evade (that also deals pretty good damage)
-12s on an immobilize/teleport

You’re so crippled by terrible cooldowns.

Its more about our utilities too Idefender is a 30s untraited CD blink/mirror images are both 40s… And unlike other classes that have their (x skill recharges 20% faster in a Adept or major trait line) this got moved all the way to GM without even the slightest thought of maybe you know “slightly” moving it up to maybe Major Adept/Major-Minor Master… No they went all the way near the tippy top….

A win-win-situation. GJ there A-Net!

jportell.2197:

Its more about our utilities too Idefender is a 30s untraited CD blink/mirror images are both 40s… And unlike other classes that have their (x skill recharges 20% faster in a Adept or major trait line) this got moved all the way to GM without even the slightest thought of maybe you know “slightly” moving it up to maybe Major Adept/Major-Minor Master… No they went all the way near the tippy top….

I fail to see how this is any different than any other class. I’ll show you cooldowns, have a look at warrior.

You honestly can’t see how a minor adept trait affecting the cooldowns of so many skills is slightly broken? This could (I understand, not viable etc) 7 skills on a character. As you said, most players have to invest to a major-master to get a CD reduction on 4 skills on a single weapon. This is also a cooldown reduction on most of a mesmers strongest skills… Mesmers, not happy unless they can 2v1 and are considered mandatory for every team.

Keep it in your own subforum, as you’ll get no sympathy from the rest of us non-mesmers. Phantasm mesmers were completely broken in small scale skirmishes (1v1 and 2v2) as you’ve already admitted. They were never hot stuff in team battles and never will be since phantasms get blown up so fast, so I can only assume you are upset you might actually have to use strategy to win a duel now. Phantasms are terribly designed skills that a monkey could use to good effect, so I’ll be glad to see them leaving the duel scene.

And cooldown reduction is NOT mandatory as you seem to believe. You may have been spoiled with the former cooldowns, but mesmers will still perform fine with 20% longer cooldowns on some skills, especially given many of them were already OP. No other class has a trait that reduces the cooldown of so many skills, so it is only fair you have to sacrifice some trait points to achieve it (and not even a major trait).

Warrior isn’t even viable in the tourney meta and these mesmers are crying about a minor nerf that won’t really change them in the long run?

What. The. Heck.

Why do players get so upitty about these things when it’s totally justifiable?

These mesmers are crying about the loss of build diversity but what they don’t seem to understand is that they will still at least have a viable build for the tourney meta.. whereas Warrior, will most likely after the patch still be in dead freakin’ last.

Unbelievable.

AlBundy.7851:

So the damage is slightly reduced on one of the most easy mode brain dead classes in the game. Sounds like a step in the right direction that didn’t go far enough.

Maybe they will add more mechanics to mesmers that let the AI play for you more.

I’m dying. LOLOLOL God I hate how PVE some classes are in this game. So much player versus ground targeted AOE circle or player versus AI controlled pet. They really missed the mark on structered player versus player

Good change, I don’t see why some people are QQ. Even the rational Mesmers here agree that’s fine.

Yes please. Time to celebrate that the most cheesy phantasm spec is finally brought in line with the rest.

OP minor trait is just OP… if someone dont see it, then he must be a little cute kitten now id like to see Deceptive Evasion moved to Grandmaster tier and mesmer will be fine

jportell.2197:

google.3709:

really ? so no other skills on the mesmer’s weapons are useful ? :/

Not for the CD they have. Most Mesmer weapons untraited do not have a single skill that is under 10s and some of our higher skills that are support are in the 25-35 range. (staff) and then some weaponskills are just so useless they are never used anyways (mindstab GS… the entire scepter)

mindstab is the only one that i kinda could agree on, not because its a bad skill, but because ground targeting its to inconvenient for what it does.

and about scepter is just bad, not because the skills sucks, but because it doesnt even come close to bringing what sword brings ( boon-hate, immobilize, leap, tele, stun breaker, invulnerability, good dmg on a 10s cd)

other than than that, what other skills would you consider useless?

i’m just curious cause mesmer seem to have the best skills among all weapons in game, its sad seeing all the effort and resources that wasn’t put into other classes is being so unappreciated by mesmers.

RiP Phantasm Mesmers. Long live Shutdown Mesmers.

Waah Waah diversity.

Im sure a minor trait that reduces all cooldowns by 20% was really good for diversity as well amirite.

ok, 1st i don’t know how the whole patch will turn out, but i will state an real obvious fact that if u ever played an ele u will know it. Just check ele arcane trait, it reduces their the cd for attunement swap which is one of their class defining traits, and every1 build that doesn’t run it will feel the drawback and affect the strength of ele build tremendously that why u see all ele running x/x/x/x/30 on most viable build.
Now onto mesmer, illusion summoning is our class defining trait, illusion celerity is a strong trait all together using the effect share by ele attunement swap reduction, it reduces the cooldown on abilities the class heavily rely on, mesmer need illusion to function, ele need attunement swap to dance around with all their pbaoe.
So one thing A-net never learn, they fail to grabs their own design and notice the biggest strength and weakness in theory crafting that make most of their balance patches seem like a whack a mole balance.
If illusion celerity boost a mesmer efficiency by 15%-20% across the board for all build, A-net just kill build diversity like what they did to ele.

…“IF the leaked patch notes…” Notice the word, ‘IF’ to that statement? I think all judgement should be withheld until release.

A lot of people seem to think these changes will ruin PvP?..what part of PvP are you referring to?
1)the lack luster match making?
2) the solo players vs team organised players?
3) the mindless ganking and zerging at times?
4) the overcrowding of 8 vs 8 on tiny matches?
5) the sub par reward systems?
6) the grinding of rank..which the original philosophy mission statement on youtube states they want to avoid grinding?
7) the ever frequent mid match quitters?
8) the inadequate gold chest rewards?
9) the assigning of the same item multiple times from the one chest?
10) the overt ease of obtaining daily laurels?
11) the extreme O.P nature of some trait configures on some professions?
12) the lack of multiple different play styles to each profession that guild wars 1 had?
13) the bad skill descriptions on some skills?
14) the hidden nerfs sometimes carried in updates that weren’t stated transparently?
15) the lack of any form of synergy between PvE and PvP that it’s predecessor had?

Again what part of this do you think it is gonna ruin? If I am not mistaken, and this is my opinion only, but PvP couldn’t really get any worse. I do have hope though that it can certainly improve. Hope alone remained in pandora’s box. I do also believe to take a “leaked” document online and treated it as bonafide and complete is asinine.

if it is true, I do like the hate. First we tone down shatter damage. Then we half confusion damage. Now we slow down Phantasms. So basically we are left with daze and interrupt and auto attack. There you go, problem fixed. Lets not look at the fact the torch is the ugly kitten weapon that people would only choose if their other option was a stick of bubble gum. We won’t look at that staff is almost always a secondary weapon, never really used as primary. We’ll ignore sword is only used for 2 skills 90% of the time, and as a off hand,..we’ll you can block once with it..or spawn a phantasm that can hit as hard as a typical average thief hit or a warrior hammer bakitten’s just easier to not address that one skill completely outshines the other so there is no real opportunity cost in choosing to one over the other. At least in gw1 you selected all your skills, so you could moderate how many hard hitters you bought to how many defensive. Again, the problem ain’t what the weapon or skill can do, it’s that the weapons in some cases have no opportunity cost to make a player weight up how best to use the weapon, and some weapons best use is to fire and forget on cooldown. That’s not the players fault, but the player is being punished and nerfed now for doing just that.

LonelyReaper.8075:

If illusion celerity boost a mesmer efficiency by 15%-20% across the board for all build, A-net just kill build diversity like what they did to ele.

but this doesnt mean they should get it for 5 points in Illusion line… that trait is just too strong to be that cheap, you dont see it? anyway, elementalists attunements are not direct skills, you need to wait for cooldowns of skills AND attunement (and most weapon skills on ele are quite long CD compared to other profs), at the other hand, mesmer got reduced CD on maybe 4 out of 10 weapon skills for just 5 points, thats rediculous…

If the viability of several builds of a class depends on ONE or TWO traits, then something is completely wrong with this class and it should be reworked.

MaXi.3642:

LonelyReaper.8075:

If illusion celerity boost a mesmer efficiency by 15%-20% across the board for all build, A-net just kill build diversity like what they did to ele.

but this doesnt mean they should get it for 5 points in Illusion line… that trait is just too strong to be that cheap, you dont see it? anyway, elementalists attunements are not direct skills, you need to wait for cooldowns of skills AND attunement (and most weapon skills on ele are quite long CD compared to other profs), at the other hand, mesmer got reduced CD on maybe 4 out of 10 weapon skills for just 5 points, thats rediculous…

That the catch, if you have a traits that effect all spec where do you place it. Going up the traits line is not the solution, it just destroy a lot of viable spec. Should the place it as a major trait, in adept line, i think it a better solution. I think minor traits should accommodate for majority of the spec, major a stronger traits that can benefit many other build and grandmaster minor trait are free build defining trait that help the define the build. Having Illusion celerity on grandmaster minor trait is a no no, shattered strength is still the best for that spot. Illusion celerity if too strong for a minor adept trait, it should be move to minor master or major adept trait. What A-net did is a whack a mole balance.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

If the viability of several builds of a class depends on ONE or TWO traits, then something is completely wrong with this class and it should be reworked.

True and not true, but if a profession relies on a trait or two so much on all viable build is becuz it what Anet promote as class defining style. Shatter and illusion, attunement, stealth and steal. Some skill like cooldown reduction is very potent and hard to split it power into 2 traits. So what should A-net do is account that this trait will always be needed, and balance accordingly, let it be a filler trait where after taking powerful build defining trait, players will use the remaining point into this easy to access trait.

Phantasm mesmer should not be a spec, it’s incredibly boring and takes no skill at all to play. Mesmer is also the best PVP class in the game, it needs nothing but nerfs. Shatter does too much damage with too little commitment on too low of a cooldown.

So basically it’s okay to balance a game around 1v1? And in doing so, effectively kill any viable spec besides one?

1v1 specs should not exist, especially completely overpowered ones like BM ranger and phantasm mesmer. Nerfing these specs has no effect on actual game balance, because they are completely useless and not viable in high level/team fights, but they make the game overall less fun by existing. Not having to deal with these specs 1v1, that are completely useless in any team fight, is a very very good thing. Nerfing them by basically removing them from the game only makes the game more enjoyable for everyone – except people who only have fun playing overpowered specs that shouldn’t exist.

LonelyReaper.8075:

MaXi.3642:

LonelyReaper.8075:

If illusion celerity boost a mesmer efficiency by 15%-20% across the board for all build, A-net just kill build diversity like what they did to ele.

but this doesnt mean they should get it for 5 points in Illusion line… that trait is just too strong to be that cheap, you dont see it? anyway, elementalists attunements are not direct skills, you need to wait for cooldowns of skills AND attunement (and most weapon skills on ele are quite long CD compared to other profs), at the other hand, mesmer got reduced CD on maybe 4 out of 10 weapon skills for just 5 points, thats rediculous…

That the catch, if you have a traits that effect all spec where do you place it. Going up the traits line is not the solution, it just destroy a lot of viable spec. Should the place it as a major trait, in adept line, i think it a better solution. I think minor traits should accommodate for majority of the spec, major a stronger traits that can benefit many other build and grandmaster minor trait are free build defining trait that help the define the build. Having Illusion celerity on grandmaster minor trait is a no no, shattered strength is still the best for that spot. Illusion celerity if too strong for a minor adept trait, it should be move to minor master or major adept trait. What A-net did is a whack a mole balance.

The most traitlines have no synergy between them.
A handfull of them have the synergy. The results are the strong meta builds.
The best example for this is/was the cantrip-ele, shatter-mesmer, shout-guardian or backstab-thief.

If more traits were behaving like in those builds, there would be a bigger build-diversity. Instead ppl crying for nerfs 24/7 to destroy viable speccs and the next day they whine why there is no build-diversity. PPL need to realize that not the strong builds are the problem, but the weak-ones with their useless traitlines are.

If anything, after reading these reactions, i would say them moving it to grandmaster minor is quite justified. Since that is the place for build-defining traits.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

LonelyReaper.8075:

MaXi.3642:

LonelyReaper.8075:

If illusion celerity boost a mesmer efficiency by 15%-20% across the board for all build, A-net just kill build diversity like what they did to ele.

but this doesnt mean they should get it for 5 points in Illusion line… that trait is just too strong to be that cheap, you dont see it? anyway, elementalists attunements are not direct skills, you need to wait for cooldowns of skills AND attunement (and most weapon skills on ele are quite long CD compared to other profs), at the other hand, mesmer got reduced CD on maybe 4 out of 10 weapon skills for just 5 points, thats rediculous…

That the catch, if you have a traits that effect all spec where do you place it. Going up the traits line is not the solution, it just destroy a lot of viable spec. Should the place it as a major trait, in adept line, i think it a better solution. I think minor traits should accommodate for majority of the spec, major a stronger traits that can benefit many other build and grandmaster minor trait are free build defining trait that help the define the build. Having Illusion celerity on grandmaster minor trait is a no no, shattered strength is still the best for that spot. Illusion celerity if too strong for a minor adept trait, it should be move to minor master or major adept trait. What A-net did is a whack a mole balance.

The most traitlines have no synergy between them.
A handfull of them have the synergy. The results are the strong meta builds.
The best example for this is/was the cantrip-ele, shatter-mesmer, shout-guardian or backstab-thief.

If more traits were behaving like in those builds, there would be a bigger build-diversity. Instead ppl crying for nerfs 24/7 to destroy viable speccs and the next day they whine why there is no build-diversity. PPL need to realize that not the strong builds are the problem, but the weak-ones with their useless traitlines are.

There 2 problem at the moment, one is what i tried to explain, classes defining traits that are useful to most build should be accessible which means, it should be place in minor master traits and below. Next is minor grandmaster and grandmaster trait must be so strong that it define the certain build play style, that what you are trying to bring out i think. This traits should define that certian build strength and have their supporting traits in other traits tree master trait line and have filler that benefit the class(profession boosting traits) on adept. This will make balance so much cleaner as you can see pattern and it more organize. It give the developer as sense of how the traits are going, how to tweak trait that makes a build overpower and weak and balance accordingly without destroying other builds.

Manuhell.2759:

If anything, after reading these reactions, i would say them moving it to grandmaster minor is quite justified. Since that is the place for build-defining traits.

Build defining trait for shatter should be something to do with shatter, illusion cooldown shouldn’t go there. If your talking about the name illusion tree, it deceptive, it does nothing to illusion but more toward shatter. If it was me i would rename the tree to shatter tree, to accurately define that tree. Illusion celerity is a class defining trait, and should be accessible to more build not being so deep into a shatter tree.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

If the viability of several builds of a class depends on ONE or TWO traits, then something is completely wrong with this class and it should be reworked.

True and not true, but if a profession relies on a trait or two so much on all viable build is becuz it what Anet promote as class defining style. Shatter and illusion, attunement, stealth and steal. Some skill like cooldown reduction is very potent and hard to split it power into 2 traits. So what should A-net do is account that this trait will always be needed, and balance accordingly, let it be a filler trait where after taking powerful build defining trait, players will use the remaining point into this easy to access trait.

I agree on this.

I don’t know why people are so happy.

It’s basically a 20% cooldown nerf, on a line that is useless to phantasm mesmers (condition damage/shatter line, none of which they use).

Now, they’ll simply take the points to domination for the cooldown on greatsword (will offset the celerity nerf for iberserker), they still take the phantasm cd cooldown on either sword or pistol, and now they’ll put some points on domination for 15% more illusion damage to make up for phantasmal haste, and have some points to spare either in domination or chaos.

The phantasm spec will be no weaker in 1v1 than it is today. Just different. I pity the fools who think otherwise.

They’ll switch phantasmal duelist for iswordsman who still has a quick attack speed.

Your sustain will be a bit weaker, but the spike will be even stronger.

i wish a-net communicate more with the players base on balance, even if they don’t have a ptr, good argument can prove to be a good help in balance. It also provide good insight to thing we alone could never have thought about!

Well if anything im more scared of the leaked illusions signet change. Generally the only chance to win against a phant mesmer was bursting his phantasms before signet kicks in. Gl having 3 duelists kittening from everywhere with 6k+ hp. Of course it was rng, SOI could kick in the same time as it spawned, upon which it is GLHF.

google.3709:

jportell.2197:

google.3709:

really ? so no other skills on the mesmer’s weapons are useful ? :/

Not for the CD they have. Most Mesmer weapons untraited do not have a single skill that is under 10s and some of our higher skills that are support are in the 25-35 range. (staff) and then some weaponskills are just so useless they are never used anyways (mindstab GS… the entire scepter)

mindstab is the only one that i kinda could agree on, not because its a bad skill, but because ground targeting its to inconvenient for what it does.

and about scepter is just bad, not because the skills sucks, but because it doesnt even come close to bringing what sword brings ( boon-hate, immobilize, leap, tele, stun breaker, invulnerability, good dmg on a 10s cd)

other than than that, what other skills would you consider useless?

i’m just curious cause mesmer seem to have the best skills among all weapons in game, its sad seeing all the effort and resources that wasn’t put into other classes is being so unappreciated by mesmers.

Mirror blade (thanks to the bounce change no might for you but plenty for that clone!)
Phantasmal Berserker Since its bugged out damage is terribad. Even misses sometimes.
iWarlock for pvp at least… The projectile is worse than the guardian (which is getting a buff) and thief AA… Only difference is since those are AA’s you can kinda course correct this one has a CD on the summon and the phantasm. So even for staff focused builds. The iWarlock is meh.

WOC is currently bugged thanks to the bounce mess up as well… Our interrupt traits still will not be viable after this patch no matter how hard we try.

Zenith.7301:

I don’t know why people are so happy.

It’s basically a 20% cooldown nerf, on a line that is useless to phantasm mesmers (condition damage/shatter line, none of which they use).

Now, they’ll simply take the points to domination for the cooldown on greatsword (will offset the celerity nerf for iberserker), they still take the phantasm cd cooldown on either sword or pistol, and now they’ll put some points on domination for 15% more illusion damage to make up for phantasmal haste, and have some points to spare either in domination or chaos.

The phantasm spec will be no weaker in 1v1 than it is today. Just different. I pity the fools who think otherwise.

They’ll switch phantasmal duelist for iswordsman who still has a quick attack speed.

Your sustain will be a bit weaker, but the spike will be even stronger.

Which is essentially why I am saying this is a nerf to almost EVERY other Mesmer build.

koolmutt.9827:

\
This is by FAR the worst nerf any class has gotten since the beginning of the game.

Do we play same game???? Mesmer is on top of the food chain.

Worst nerfs since beginning? Ever heard about warrior?

Warrior (worst pvp profession) got another nerf in this patch (huge one now).

shimzor.6057:

koolmutt.9827:

\
This is by FAR the worst nerf any class has gotten since the beginning of the game.

Do we play same game???? Mesmer is on top of the food chain.

Worst nerfs since beginning? Ever heard about warrior?

Warrior (worst pvp profession) got another nerf in this patch (huge one now).

Why comparing with a broken class, do u wish to play a broken game or would you like to give constructive feedback that will help improve them game.

LonelyReaper.8075:

shimzor.6057:

koolmutt.9827:

\
This is by FAR the worst nerf any class has gotten since the beginning of the game.

Do we play same game???? Mesmer is on top of the food chain.

Worst nerfs since beginning? Ever heard about warrior?

Warrior (worst pvp profession) got another nerf in this patch (huge one now).

Why comparing with a broken class, do u wish to play a broken game or would you like to give constructive feedback that will help improve them game.

Ok, remove warrior, but mesmer is still on top of the food chain.

shimzor.6057:

LonelyReaper.8075:

shimzor.6057:

koolmutt.9827:

\
This is by FAR the worst nerf any class has gotten since the beginning of the game.

Do we play same game???? Mesmer is on top of the food chain.

Worst nerfs since beginning? Ever heard about warrior?

Warrior (worst pvp profession) got another nerf in this patch (huge one now).

Why comparing with a broken class, do u wish to play a broken game or would you like to give constructive feedback that will help improve them game.

Ok, remove warrior, but mesmer is still on top of the food chain.

Not really, but their one of the better profession, if i would say the best balance class with more diversity will be guardian. they have a variety of bunker, balance and burst spec with some variation but they still are one of the best and more balanced profession offered atm.

I don’t know why so many people have this class vs class mentality; this isn’t about the thieves arguing with mesmers arguing with rangers etc etc for each to get their profession a step above the others.. this is about all of us (who probably have alts and play each of the other classes) collectively trying to voice our opinion on rational changes instead of a broken change for a broken problem (in this case 1v1 spec phant build).

We all strive for class balance and diverse builds to use that could all be potentially viable. The problem with this change was instead of nerfing the 1v1 phant spec, they nerfed the whole mesmer class as a whole. We all want viable specs for our class, and we collectively agree when something is broken; in this case mesmers will be the first to tell you that the 1v1 phant spec was broken, but the way a-net went about dealing with this completely destroyed the possibility of using other specs. Creating a change that promotes majority of mesmers to be shatter spec, and a small few to be phant spec, and nothing else viable for high end PVP kills build diversity.

Address the specific build when it’s broken, don’t punish the whole class for it.

Good. Destroy it. Destroy more and bring this class down to earth. Enough already.